Don't Let the Door Hit You in the Ass, Daboll and Delhomme!

[shepwrite]

Sunday sealed it: Delhomme won't be playing the rest of the season and probably won't be back next year. McCoy was the third quarterback yesterday and seemed to be moving around well. If he can't go Sunday, the Browns are compelled to go with Wallace, who beat the Bengals once and was playing better before he was hurt than Delhomme can dream of at this point in his career... a career based almost entirely on one season.

 

I think Daboll had about a 10 percent chance of returning next year prior to Sunday. Now he should go ahead and start looking for work. He's toast. I would bet two of my three testicles that we'll be running a full-on WCO next year and McCoy will be superb at it. We'll draft a big YAC WR like Green or Jones and have literally all of the key parts in place.

 

The question then becomes: Does Holmgren stop there or sack Mangini as well? Does he only take control of half the team, allowing Mangini to stay on as a neutered head coach? Seems unlikely.

 

What do you guys think? Can Mangini survive?

[NewEraDawg]

If Mangini can separate from that total dud Dabol he can survive . But loyalty to his coaches may prevent it . I can't believe he hasn't sacked Dabol's system . Should have by the end of training camp . I have always backed Mangini since he arrived , but if he don't sack Dabol he can't survive .

 

jmho

[USFBrown]

I would bet two of my three testicles that we'll be running a full-on WCO next year and McCoy will be superb at it. We'll draft a big YAC WR like Green or Jones and have literally all of the key parts in place.

:lol:

 

That cracked me up.

 

I think Mangini stays and Daboll is gone. Maybe they give Dabs another year, but i'm hoping he's out. This is definitely Colt's team and if we get a good WR, we can be a decent team.

 

We just need to learn how to beat up on other teams. We play up/down to our competition. I can't tell if we're good or bad, we're so damn inconsistent.

 

[lodilobo]

Sunday sealed it: Delhomme won't be playing the rest of the season and probably won't be back next year. McCoy was the third quarterback yesterday and seemed to be moving around well. If he can't go Sunday, the Browns are compelled to go with Wallace, who beat the Bengals once and was playing better before he was hurt than Delhomme can dream of at this point in his career... a career based almost entirely on one season.

 

I think Daboll had about a 10 percent chance of returning next year prior to Sunday. Now he should go ahead and start looking for work. He's toast. I would bet two of my three testicles that we'll be running a full-on WCO next year and McCoy will be superb at it. We'll draft a big YAC WR like Green or Jones and have literally all of the key parts in place.

 

The question then becomes: Does Holmgren stop there or sack Mangini as well? Does he only take control of half the team, allowing Mangini to stay on as a neutered head coach? Seems unlikely.

 

What do you guys think? Can Mangini survive?

I really have to wonder...what was going through Mangini's head yesterday to make him keep Delhomme in the entire game? I could understand it, if we were getting beat by 3 td's, or if we were up by 3 td's...but when the game was very winnable, until the last 2 minutes....why? His facial expression showed the whole game that he was ready to puke. Why not make the change, and go to Wallace?....especially knowing that his job is hanging by a thread.

[The Gipper]

I really have to wonder...what was going through Mangini's head yesterday to make him keep Delhomme in the entire game? I could understand it, if we were getting beat by 3 td's, or if we were up by 3 td's...but when the game was very winnable, until the last 2 minutes....why? His facial expression showed the whole game that he was ready to puke. Why not make the change, and go to Wallace?....especially knowing that his job is hanging by a thread.

 

 

Again, as someone said, Delhomme was Holmgren's choice. And Delhomme had a contract for another year. Perhaps Holmgren has suggested that Mangini let Delhomme play out the string. If that is the case then surely Holmgren cannot hold it against Mangini that Delhomme is shooting all snake eyes.

[next2nothing]

This is just my take and opinion on some things concerning Delhomme, Daboll and the offense.

 

1. Delhomme is a deflated vet. Every fan can see how the offense just lacks that something to get it moving when he's at the QB position. I don't know if it's just me but it seems like he also holds on to the ball far too long but I'd probably credit that to our WR corp.

 

2. If McCoy is good to go this week, you play him. Simple as that. It will give the team a chance to see how he does in cold weather conditions, more reps at starting QB and he gives this team the best chance to win.

 

3. Daboll is pretty much out as OC. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt given that our only real offensive weapons are Hillis and Watson but that stupid as shit reverse play yesterday sealed the deal for me. That play looked like a cluster xxxx from the start and it was amazing that Cribbs somehow got the ball back.

 

4. Speaking of Cribbs... where did he go? I know he had the foot injury and teams are accounting for him in the return game now that they know who he is but he barely is on the field it seems. I don't know if that's play calling or things are going on in practice that we as fans don't see but Cribbs has basically disappeared this season.

 

5. I honestly do not think Mangini is in any danger of losing his job. I believe that Holmgren is speaking the truth when he says he does not want to coach again. Having the "itch" and actually wanting to coach are two different things. Holmgren has experience as a HC in a rebuilding team. He knows the ups and downs that will come when you do that, he also knows that with time the team can become contenders.

 

6. The defense kept us in the game yesterday but were just worn down on that last drive. Haden looks like he will be a stud and Ward looks the same, just needs to get better on angles in pass coverage.

 

Whether you like Mangini or not you cannot deny that this team has grown and become better with him as the HC. If you do then you're just hating on him because he wasn't the guy you wanted. I will be the first to admit that there have been times this season where decisions have been puzzling. But what team in the NFL doesn't experience this at some point in the year? I'm sure after we thumped the Patriots a lot of Patriot fans were criticizing things Bellichick did. We also don't know what is really going down on the sidelines. We can assume and try to interpret but there can be factors that may come into play that we are not made aware of. I'm not trying to make excuses for Mangini or the other coaches because I, like other fans, thought yesterday's game was a travesty and the whole team looked flat after that first drive. Unless we tank the rest of the season then Mangini needs to stay.

[slowburn]

Mangini is certainly in survival mode at this point. Why he couldn't pull the trigger yesterday by taking control of the offense and/or replacing his sputtering QB signals a coach of a team playing not to lose. He

 

looked confused on the sideline. It was a winnable game until the end. Could be he was counting on his defense or special teams to bail him out but his seemingly inabilty to adjust when the offense is grinding

 

to a halt is troubling. His conservatism and unwillingless to roll the offensive dice may spell his doom. Mangini CAN coach. It is obvious he has skills in evaluating and developing talent. He seems to be a stand

 

up guy who has my respect, but I am just not convinced he has the moxie to consistantly WIN in this league.

[shepwrite]

We can't close games or win consistently because we don't have a serious passing game... meaning, we're pretty one dimensional on offense and that kind of thing makes opposing DCs look really smart. They can single cover any WR we can put out there, too.

 

Even without any WRs, McCoy and Wallace both brought at least one other element, their legs. They also were accurate and patient enough to take what was there. It isn't a work of art, but it functioned.

 

I really, really hope the NFL gets its shit together because I think the Browns are going to contend next year. We have enough pieces to consider it a solid core (McCoy, Watson, Moore, Hillis, Vickers, Thomas, Mack, Cribbs, Rubin, Gocong, Benard, Ward, Haden, Fujita), a high draft slot, a good management team, and probably an actual NFL OC coming in.

[Harry Buffalo]

This is just my take and opinion on some things concerning Delhomme, Daboll and the offense.

 

1. Delhomme is a deflated vet. Every fan can see how the offense just lacks that something to get it moving when he's at the QB position. I don't know if it's just me but it seems like he also holds on to the ball far too long but I'd probably credit that to our WR corp.

 

2. If McCoy is good to go this week, you play him. Simple as that. It will give the team a chance to see how he does in cold weather conditions, more reps at starting QB and he gives this team the best chance to win.

 

3. Daboll is pretty much out as OC. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt given that our only real offensive weapons are Hillis and Watson but that stupid as shit reverse play yesterday sealed the deal for me. That play looked like a cluster xxxx from the start and it was amazing that Cribbs somehow got the ball back.

 

4. Speaking of Cribbs... where did he go? I know he had the foot injury and teams are accounting for him in the return game now that they know who he is but he barely is on the field it seems. I don't know if that's play calling or things are going on in practice that we as fans don't see but Cribbs has basically disappeared this season.

 

5. I honestly do not think Mangini is in any danger of losing his job. I believe that Holmgren is speaking the truth when he says he does not want to coach again. Having the "itch" and actually wanting to coach are two different things. Holmgren has experience as a HC in a rebuilding team. He knows the ups and downs that will come when you do that, he also knows that with time the team can become contenders.

 

6. The defense kept us in the game yesterday but were just worn down on that last drive. Haden looks like he will be a stud and Ward looks the same, just needs to get better on angles in pass coverage.

 

Whether you like Mangini or not you cannot deny that this team has grown and become better with him as the HC. If you do then you're just hating on him because he wasn't the guy you wanted. I will be the first to admit that there have been times this season where decisions have been puzzling. But what team in the NFL doesn't experience this at some point in the year? I'm sure after we thumped the Patriots a lot of Patriot fans were criticizing things Bellichick did. We also don't know what is really going down on the sidelines. We can assume and try to interpret but there can be factors that may come into play that we are not made aware of. I'm not trying to make excuses for Mangini or the other coaches because I, like other fans, thought yesterday's game was a travesty and the whole team looked flat after that first drive. Unless we tank the rest of the season then Mangini needs to stay.

 

If you watched the game at all yesterday you would have noticed that Cribbs actually got the return once the entire game because they were kicking away from him. When he was in on offence he caught a pass, but it was thrown to him 8 yards shy of the first down and the reverse to him was so poorly timed that there is not way that could really be his fault either (except for the fumble, but good job of him getting it away from 3 other defenders).

 

Mangini is good as a head coach and he can run a good defense. Holgrem doesn't know defense he knows offense. By bringing in a new OC and running a new offense it doesn't hurt Mangini at all.

[alporcini]

We can't close games or win consistently because we don't have a serious passing game... meaning, we're pretty one dimensional on offense and that kind of thing makes opposing DCs look really smart. They can single cover any WR we can put out there, too.

 

Even without any WRs, McCoy and Wallace both brought at least one other element, their legs. They also were accurate and patient enough to take what was there. It isn't a work of art, but it functioned.

 

I really, really hope the NFL gets its shit together because I think the Browns are going to contend next year. We have enough pieces to consider it a solid core (McCoy, Watson, Moore, Hillis, Vickers, Thomas, Mack, Cribbs, Rubin, Gocong, Benard, Ward, Haden, Fujita), a high draft slot, a good management team, and probably an actual NFL OC coming in.

 

 

Question: with so much of the good vibe this season coming from the Pitt game, the NO victory, the NE thrashing, and the Jets OT squeaker loss, how would we have done with Delhomme under center in those games? Hmmmmmm....

[Zombo]

Again, as someone said, Delhomme was Holmgren's choice. And Delhomme had a contract for another year. Perhaps Holmgren has suggested that Mangini let Delhomme play out the string. If that is the case then surely Holmgren cannot hold it against Mangini that Delhomme is shooting all snake eyes.

 

Mangini is the field coach, it is his call on who to play.

 

Even if it was reccomended that he start Delhomme ... he could have pulled him when he saw how badly he was hurting us yesterday.

 

Holmgren is dumb for signing him ... Mangini is dumber for playing him.

 

Zombo

[Gafreleets]

Question: with so much of the good vibe this season coming from the Pitt game,..........

 

 

 

what "good vibe" are you talking about?

 

 

a division loss shouldn't give you the "warm and fuzzies".

[next2nothing]

If you watched the game at all yesterday you would have noticed that Cribbs actually got the return once the entire game because they were kicking away from him. When he was in on offence he caught a pass, but it was thrown to him 8 yards shy of the first down and the reverse to him was so poorly timed that there is not way that could really be his fault either (except for the fumble, but good job of him getting it away from 3 other defenders).

 

Mangini is good as a head coach and he can run a good defense. Holgrem doesn't know defense he knows offense. By bringing in a new OC and running a new offense it doesn't hurt Mangini at all.

I've watched every game and I may have worded myself wrong, I wasn't trying to put Cribbs down or anything like that.

 

I was merely commenting on how Cribbs hasn't seemed to touch the ball or given opportunities to make plays like he did last year and I'm just wondering what happened between then and now.

[Gafreleets]

I've watched every game and I may have worded myself wrong, I wasn't trying to put Cribbs down or anything like that.

 

I was merely commenting on how Cribbs hasn't seemed to touch the ball or given opportunities to make plays like he did last year and I'm just wondering what happened between then and now.

 

 

 

one of the better things that could happen to the browns is for them to get rid of cribbs. he's not a legit RB/WR/CB. he's just not. and the more time they spend trying to develope him into one of those will be wasted time and cap $$$ that would be better spent on a true RB/WR/CB.

 

 

that and no better time to unload him than when you can get the most for a draft pick.

[The Gipper]

one of the better things that could happen to the browns is for them to get rid of cribbs. he's not a legit RB/WR/CB. he's just not. and the more time they spend trying to develope him into one of those will be wasted time and cap $$$ that would be better spent on a true RB/WR/CB.

 

 

that and no better time to unload him than when you can get the most for a draft pick.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with leaving Cribbs to do exactly what he is doing. He has been hurt so his efficiency in the WildDawg has been limited.

As a WR he shouldn't be anything but the Browns 3rd or 4th choice. The problem is the lack of talent in the depth chart in front of him at that position, not in his position. Also,I don't know where you get off listing him as a Running back or Corner. He doesn't play those roles. He will run as a WildDawg QB, and to my knowledge he never plays on the defense.

[Gips]

We need to scrap project mangini in full or we will merely suffer 8-8 seasons on his best years, the guy is a pathetic coach in many aspects, to stubborn, hardheaded and set in his flawed ways all while lacking much and demanding respect he hasnt earned..

 

Bye bye eric!

[bringbackbrownie2]

one of the better things that could happen to the browns is for them to get rid of cribbs. he's not a legit RB/WR/CB. he's just not. and the more time they spend trying to develope him into one of those will be wasted time and cap $$$ that would be better spent on a true RB/WR/CB.

 

 

that and no better time to unload him than when you can get the most for a draft pick.

 

haha is this on your christmas wish list? you and every other steeler fan must dream of the day you don't have to face this guy...

[Speedyd900rr]

Honestly, who really though that Mangini would have us in the playoffs his second year here? I know it sucks losing and we lost a whole lot of games we should of won but that should be put on everyone and not just Mangini.

 

 

 

 

[DAWGPOUND16]

Honestly, who really though that Mangini would have us in the playoffs his second year here? I know it sucks losing and we lost a whole lot of games we should of won but that should be put on everyone and not just Mangini.

It's been his fault every time we've lost games we shouldn't of, and they all fall on failing to make in game adjustments.

 

 

[miktoxic]

We need to scrap project mangini in full or we will merely suffer 8-8 seasons on his best years, the guy is a pathetic coach in many aspects, to stubborn, hardheaded and set in his flawed ways all while lacking much and demanding respect he hasnt earned..

 

Bye bye eric!

 

wow, you are all over the place. when we win mangini is ok. when we win a couple in a row you're like "he's starting to win me over" and when we lose you're at the front of the line ready to hang the guy. rome wasn't built in a day.

 

what do consistent winning franchises have in common. stability.

 

[NW Ohio Brownie]

Daboll won't be here next year. That much is clear.

 

Look, Mangini rolled the dice on this guy when he couldn't bring Schottenheimer with him from NY. Eric did well to get Seely and Ryan who have done the job well. They've had their ups and downs this year, too. The high point for Seely was the Saints game with all the razzle-dazzle while Ryan's crown jewel was befuddling Tom Terrific. But Ryan's all-out blitzes against Baltimore exposed Wright and Seely's crew flat-out stunk in coverage this Sunday. That happens in this league. It's darn near impossible to be perfect in any week, let alone every week.

 

As for Daboll, outside of the New England game I have been unimpressed. I thought our playcalling against Jacksonville, in particular, was terrible and put Colt in tough, obvious passing situations. Instead of being aggressive when we got the myriad of turnovers, Daboll chose to button it up in that game. I know Colt suffered the ankle sprain in that game, but even before that the playcalling was very conservative. I realize MoMass and Cribbs were inactive in that game, but it was ridiculous how many times we ran on first down and second and long in that game. The lack of "O" in that game cost us and it's carried over into Miami and Buffalo.

 

Delhomme's capabilities aren't helping either. This guy just cannot make plays on his own and when he tries to, it blows up in his face. That lack of mobility in and out of the pocket is really putting this offense behind the 8-ball. He has no arm strength, either. Tony G is always, ALWAYS, barking about QBs being able to throw the ball in Cleveland in December. He's right about wanting to see what McCoy can do during that time, but I KNOW Jake can't throw it in any month.

 

Those last two wins with Jake at the helm were fool's gold. He almost gave them both away with a pick-six in one game and a shoulda-been pick-six in the other. With Colt, the win against New England and the near-miss against New York was real. It felt legitimate because it was. The kid was making plays and moving the offense. He brings excitement to watching the games, but Jake makes me worry every time he drops to throw.

 

So, yes, I hope Jake has taken his last meaningful snap as a Brown. And, yes, Daboll will not be the OC here next year. But if the Big Show decides to get rid of Eric that would be unjustified as hell. He is tremendously respected by his players and they compete week after week. People want to rake him over the coals for losing to Buffalo and then dismiss the excellent three-game stretch against NO, NE, and NYJ. You can't have it both ways, folks. I laugh when I look at all the other jobs in this league that current coaches are just butchering -- Marvin Lewis (2-11), Ken Whisenhunt (4-9 in the NFC West), Mike Shanahan (5-8 with McNabb), Wade Phillips (1-7 before the axe), Rex Ryan (9-4 with the self-proclaimed best team in the NFL), etc. The point? These guys are underachieving with what they have at their disposal. Period.

 

Give Eric a quality QB (maybe McCoy is the guy), a legit OC, and another good crop of draft picks and this is a playoff-caliber team in 2011.

[shepwrite]

If there was a way to literally keep Mangini away from the offense... I could live with it. But that's not how head coaches generally operate. He has an odd view of quarterbacks (he thought he could win with Kellen Clemens), one that's a decade or two behind the league.

[miktoxic]

If there was a way to literally keep Mangini away from the offense... I could live with it. But that's not how head coaches generally operate. He has an odd view of quarterbacks (he thought he could win with Kellen Clemens), one that's a decade or two behind the league.

i don't think you judge the HC that way. first off look at what the guy has to work with. it's not like he's got tom brady playing qb for him and TO running routes. he's trying to rebuild a solid team that had nothing. zero. zilch. colt showed real promise before getting hurt. if we would have won a couple of those games that we should have won we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. starting delhomme is very sketchy though and i'm wondering if there is pressure from the FO to do so. the offense doesn't look the same with the old guy out there, no spark.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

If there was a way to literally keep Mangini away from the offense... I could live with it. But that's not how head coaches generally operate. He has an odd view of quarterbacks (he thought he could win with Kellen Clemens), one that's a decade or two behind the league.

 

Shep,

 

That's BS and you know it. Gruden thought he could win with Chris Simms. Show me an NFL coach and I will show you one who has made piss-poor judgements about QB talent.

 

For crying out loud, Holmgren spearheaded the Delhomme move. He also traded FOR Charlie Frye. Want me to keep going?

 

You want to claim Mangini is the problem on offense? That's rich. Fine, then he's done a wonderful job holding Rob Ryan's and Brad Seely's hands with the defense and special teams. No credit to those guys, whatsoever.

[4Browns]

Holmgren brought in Delhomme and paid him the big bucks... so if you are Mangini what can you do but play the guy until there is no way anyone can say you gave up on Jake too soon? If Mangini benches JD what does it say about the decision to sign him in the first place? With Mangini being evaluated every year as to whether he keeps his job it is a tough place to be in. If he isn't successful in Cleveland he may never get another head coaching job.

 

IMO, changing coaches again this offseason would be a big mistake. Maybe a new OC if someone good comes available but we cant keep changing coaches every couple of years and think we can make progress as an organization.

 

I really have to wonder...what was going through Mangini's head yesterday to make him keep Delhomme in the entire game? I could understand it, if we were getting beat by 3 td's, or if we were up by 3 td's...but when the game was very winnable, until the last 2 minutes....why? His facial expression showed the whole game that he was ready to puke. Why not make the change, and go to Wallace?....especially knowing that his job is hanging by a thread.

 

[next2nothing]

wow, you are all over the place. when we win mangini is ok. when we win a couple in a row you're like "he's starting to win me over" and when we lose you're at the front of the line ready to hang the guy. rome wasn't built in a day.

 

what do consistent winning franchises have in common. stability.

There seems to be a lot of that on this board...