Getting a little more than irritated at this Mangini stuff

[cddbrowns]

Team is headed in the right direction, now the media is even asking him if he thinks he will be fired. A TON of Browns fans wanted MdDaniels and Shanny over Mangini, instead we got who we got. THANK GOD! Sorry people, I care about football, not having the "big name" HC in there that may or may not do ANY better. Honestly, I feel like being as much of a cry baby as they are when/if a new coach is hired, black list him like many have done Mangini. EVERY SINGLE THING he does, cry and moan and call people stupid and hope for losses and blah balh blah......just so I can hope for the next ex Browns coach to be fired and yet again, go through an entire building process....only to start over again another 2-3 years down the road. So is the life of a Browns fan and some of you deserve this....

 

Sorry about the rant, Im just pissed.

[shepwrite]

BTW, Glazer has chimed in and agreed with Clayton, saying Mangini will be fired. Adkins at OBR said he doesn't think a 6-10 season is enough to keep Holmgren from going with "his guys."

 

I don't think it's a done deal. If the Browns somehow won out, Holmgren's hands would be tied, really. He'd have to focus only on changing out the offensive scheme and coaches.

 

I don't think Mangini is much of a game day coach... but I do give him credit for changing the culture here. And that's not easy.

[BROWNandORANGE]

BTW, Glazer has chimed in and agreed with Clayton, saying Mangini will be fired. Adkins at OBR said he doesn't think a 6-10 season is enough to keep Holmgren from going with "his guys."

 

I don't think it's a done deal. If the Browns somehow won out, Holmgren's hands would be tied, really. He'd have to focus only on changing out the offensive scheme and coaches.

 

I don't think Mangini is much of a game day coach... but I do give him credit for changing the culture here. And that's not easy.

 

That's the ideal situation, but do you honestly think we're going to win out? We play the Bengals in Cinci and then we have Baltimore and Pitt at home. If we don't get our shit together, those look like three very losable games.

[shepwrite]

I think this is the article you were referring to. For whatever reason, it's getting out into the national media that Holmgren will be looking to make a change. Where there's smoke, there's often fire.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...eric_ma_28.html

[shepwrite]

Worse, those are probably meaningful games to the Steelers and Ravens. I think we can beat a spiraling Bengal team... but those last two will be really, really tough.

 

Forced to predict, I think we'll finish 6-10 with a ton of missed opportunities. And I think that gets Mangini canned and Gruden hired.

[WRREBEL]

I can't stand the stablity argument.. marvin lewis has been in cinci for a while and they haven't won a play off game.

 

 

Btw, jon grudens nfl coaching record is better than all but 4 active coaches... he is the firey guy that this team and city needs.

[cddbrowns]

I can't stand the stablity argument.. marvin lewis has been in cinci for a while and they haven't won a play off game.

 

 

Btw, jon grudens nfl coaching record is better than all but 4 active coaches... he is the firey guy that this team and city needs.

 

Shanny had a PRETTY GOOD team, won SBs as well........Invalid argument IMO. This team is headed in the right direction, towards being a tough hard nosed team. Injuries to the players (most importantly QB) has this team where it is right now but we have been in virtually every game so far this year. Thats what makes this seem like an agenda, dude was black listed from day one.

[shepwrite]

I don't know how you don't get psyched for a Holmgren-Gruden management team in Cleveland. That's pretty deluxe.

[cddbrowns]

I don't know how you don't get psyched for a Holmgren-Gruden management team in Cleveland. That's pretty deluxe.

 

Because starting over is starting over!!!! You REALLY think ANYONE is going to come into Cleveland and starting winning right away? Not with the amount of holes this teams has, ESPECIALLY the holes it had with Mangini took over! No offense, but youre fooling yourself if you do, and people will be calling for Grudens head after next year IF that even happens!!!!

[BROWNandORANGE]

I don't know how you don't get psyched for a Holmgren-Gruden management team in Cleveland. That's pretty deluxe.

 

I don't get psyched for a Holmgren-Gruden management team in Cleveland because we are not in need of a new coach. We lost a bunch of close games this year, not to mention that we had a total bum (Delhomme) blow a couple of games for us.

[WRREBEL]

Shanny had a PRETTY GOOD team, won SBs as well........Invalid argument IMO. This team is headed in the right direction, towards being a tough hard nosed team. Injuries to the players (most importantly QB) has this team where it is right now but we have been in virtually every game so far this year. Thats what makes this seem like an agenda, dude was black listed from day one.

 

 

Hey I understand you think mangini deserves more time, and I respect ur opinion.

 

I just feel he is not the right coach to get us over the hump.

 

 

Thanks for not taking my opinion personal... just because we disgaree on what we think is the best direction of the team doesn't make either of us wrong, less of a fan or a moron.

 

 

[cddbrowns]

Hey I understand you think mangini deserves more time, and I respect ur opinion.

 

I just feel he is not the right coach to get us over the hump.

 

 

Thanks for not taking my opinion personal... just because we disgaree on what we think is the best direction of the team doesn't make either of us wrong, less of a fan or a moron.

 

I dont take anything personal, its football, and without some sort of passion in an argument, its just a statement. Just please do the same is all I ask, take it as a passionate argument. We just want wins, just differ on how to get there. FIRE GRUDEN! (HHFH)

[pizzadeliveryguy]

What amazes me is that no one mentions the strength of schedule that the Browns have endured. 10 of the 13 teams on the Browns' schedule have winning records with most of them being playoff teams and have compiled a total of 97-72, no one in their right mind expected more than 7 wins this year and if you did I am truly sorry for your mental capacity. I've also seen people complaining about other teams turning it around this year like the Chiefs, Bucs, and Rams. Look at the schedules for Christ's sake.

 

St. Louis- Played 4 winning teams- w/ a total record of 73-96

Tampa Bay- 5 - 80=89

Kansas City- 4 - 69-100

 

So lets try and get real here. Mangini most definitely has this team headed in the right direction. The team has been in every game against a brutal schedule while using QBs that range from a castoff from the worst team in the league, a career backup, and a rookie 3rd rounder. They are starting to learn how to win and with another good draft and some free agent pickups from a much improved FO we should be in the playoff hunt next year. Or we can start all over and watch as we miss out on more FAs due to having no stability or confidence in anyone. Won't that be fun.

[Harry Buffalo]

Because starting over is starting over!!!! You REALLY think ANYONE is going to come into Cleveland and starting winning right away? Not with the amount of holes this teams has, ESPECIALLY the holes it had with Mangini took over! No offense, but youre fooling yourself if you do, and people will be calling for Grudens head after next year IF that even happens!!!!

 

People bitch and moan about wanting a new coach, but people don't realize that with the amount of coaches we have used and then thrown away, soon people who are tight with Holmgren won't even want to come coach here because they know that if they don't win right away and send this team to the playoffs multiple times in just a hand full of years that they will be shit canned and hopes of ever being a head coach anywhere else will be close to 10%.

 

No one wants to coach for a losing team that made a history of not keeping coaches around.

 

[NW Ohio Brownie]

What amazes me is that no one mentions the strength of schedule that the Browns have endured. 10 of the 13 teams on the Browns' schedule have winning records with most of them being playoff teams and have compiled a total of 97-72, no one in their right mind expected more than 7 wins this year and if you did I am truly sorry for your mental capacity. I've also seen people complaining about other teams turning it around this year like the Chiefs, Bucs, and Rams. Look at the schedules for Christ's sake.

 

St. Louis- Played 4 winning teams- w/ a total record of 73-96

Tampa Bay- 5 - 80=89

Kansas City- 4 - 69-100

 

So lets try and get real here. Mangini most definitely has this team headed in the right direction. The team has been in every game against a brutal schedule while using QBs that range from a castoff from the worst team in the league, a career backup, and a rookie 3rd rounder. They are starting to learn how to win and with another good draft and some free agent pickups from a much improved FO we should be in the playoff hunt next year. Or we can start all over and watch as we miss out on more FAs due to having no stability or confidence in anyone. Won't that be fun.

 

pizza,

 

You beat me to it. Great post about strength of schedule.

 

Look, I for one am not trying to make excuses for our 5-8 record. But you cannot ignore what this undermanned, banged-up team has had to face this year.

 

Any reasonable, again, REASONABLE, fan would tell you that when camp convened in July this team was looking at 6-7 wins, 8 if everything fell right. Now, looking back at a schedule that featured 8-5, 8-5, 9-4, 2-11, 10-3, 10-3, bye, 10-3, 11-2, 9-4, & 8-5 in the first 11 weeks, we are ready to get rid of the coach even though the team won three of those games and held 4th quarter leads in all but one?

 

It's funny that last year's 4-game winning streak was disparaged by those who were in favor of removing Coach Mangini. Many in that camp said it came against the also-rans of the league, yet now many of those same people are conveniently ignoring this brutal 10-game stretch.

 

Moreover, some people use St. Louis as the measuring stick for being MUCH improved at 6-7. Well, they are improved greatly in terms of wins and losses, but not their overall level of talent and play. 2 things have improved for St. Louis: 1) Getting a likely franchise QB & 2) An easy schedule (NFC West - 3-1 so far, NFC South - 1-3). But they are not playing tought teams week in and week out. For cripes sakes, what would the anti-EM folks be saying if we had lost to Detroit 44-6 as St. Louis did in Week 5? So St. Louis is great at 6-7, but the 5-8 Browns against much, much tougher competition are adrift? Please.

 

So this team (in terms of wins and losses) is about where most people thought, and they haven't closed games against stiff competition (Bal, Atl, Jax, NYJ) even though they were decided underdogs in some of these games, and those disappointing endings are why we should jettison Coach Mangini?

 

I am in agreement with those that say we need to take a serious look at the offense in the off-season. We don't just need a new coordinator, though, people. We need three, that's right, THREE guys along the offensive line. We need another running back to help Hillis. We need a #1 receiver and a solid, veteran somewhere in the mix, too. Our problems are shrinking, people. This management TEAM, yes, TEAM, had a great draft. Now, to send Mangini on his way after the obvious progress in season two, would be very disappointing in my opinion.

 

People argue for Gruden because he's a Holmgren guy. Which means he would be nothing more than a yes man in the meeting rooms. I, for one, like the idea of having the so-called Belichick/Walsh coaching tree mix of philosophies in the draft/meeting rooms. It's healthy to have varying opinions on things. We've already heard how in the draft, Heckert loved Haden, Mangini loved Ward, and Holmgren hand-picked Colt. What's that tell you? They are working TOGETHER and respect each other's feelings/knowledge on talent evaluation and team needs. Despite what the spin doctors here and elsewhere tell you, there are no ulterior motives with Holmgren keeping Mangini on as a lame duck coach this year. That's no way for an organization, especially in the NFL, to be run. Holmgren even said, ON RECORD, that the thing he learned the most from his previous GM/Prez gig at Seattle was to NOT WAIT in making necessary changes. He didn't keep Mangini for 2010 because he wanted to give him "enough rope to hang himself" as Tony Grossi tries to make you believe. He kept EM because of what he SAID: Eric is a good football coach. Anything otherwise is PURE speculation.

 

We have won a few we had no business winning (NO, NE), a few we didn't deserve to win (Mia, Car), and we've lost a bunch we could have won (NYJ, Jax, TB, KC, Bal) and one we had no business losing (Buf) even though Vegas had the Bills favored. The point? You will be a wildly inconsistent ballclub with middling talent in this league, especially at the QB position. The only consistency comes from the teams that have great QB play and good, solid coaching. We don't have great QB play week in and week out, as evidenced by Jake. Colt's play this year was about as close as it came and, not coincidentally, that's our best stretch of football in 2010. As far as coaching, EM is solid, but there's no doubt he's not without flaws and Daboll will most likely be the fall guy.

 

Keep EM, bring in a new OC, make the necessary personnel changes, and you will have a playoff-caliber team in 2011. Then if we are 5-8 playing the likes of SF, Sea, St. Louis, Tennessee, Houston, Oakland, and Miami -- I will begin to consider EM's place at the head of the table. But not before.

[shepwrite]

That's a terrific post, NW... even if I don't agree with every assertion, it's really good stuff.

 

I think an organization needs to be on the same page. I was in favor of Holmgren building an organization from the ground up, frankly. Holmgren (and Gruden, for that matter) see the game more like I do: It's first and foremost about the quarterback. Both guys have said it over and over and over, which I love.

 

Holmgren is a WCO guy down to his soul. It's what he believes in. And if we believe in Holmgren, we should at least be interested in him running "our" team with the systems he believes to be the smartest, right?

 

I don't hate Mangini. In fact, I like the way he's evolved from last year to this year. He's even occasionally funny in a dry way. I do NOT like the way he sees or manages the quarterback position. I blame both Holmgren and Mangini for the Delhomme fiasco, but the only think worse than signing him is continuing to play him when he looks like well burned toast. Immobile and weak-armed to go with his usual sketchy decision making.

 

Mangini has shown a penchant for playing games, not announcing starters to the team or media, sticking with shitty veterans, and believing he can win with guys like Kellen Clemens, Chad Pennington with a shot arm, or Jake Delhomme with a shot everything. I just don't feel a great deal of confidence in how he handles the most important position in team sports.

 

Gruden is a former QB who has said over and over, if you don't have your quarterback, you have nothing. And if you do? Everything else is a hell of a lot easier. He and Holmgren have also repeatedly said that the best teams tend to be those with the best quarterbacks... as well as continuity at QB and head coach. I would add that sticking to one offensive system is pretty key, too. None of the top quarterbacks have had to change systems like, say, Alex Smith.

 

Do we have the one we wanna run for the next 10-12 years of Colt's career? No. We don't. And I believe WCO guy Holmgren picked McCoy because he saw a WCO quarterback. That's what Gil Brandt told him and that's what every draftnick said: McCoy is a WCO quarterback. He's Jeff Garcia with even better wheels, an extra inch of height, and more zing. Garcia Plus.

 

I think this team has a lot of pieces and will add the rest in the offseason, so we'll be about as good as Colt McCoy is, plain and simple. And I just don't know if Mangini is the guy to be a part of Team McCoy, as Steve D. discussed. I like Holmgren and Haskell being there, and I even get the notion of Delhomme being his safety blanket.

 

But I'm not sure about Mangini.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

Shep,

 

One thing I want you and others to please consider is this: Mangini's perceived philosophy on quarterbacks has been tainted by what he has had to work with at all positions on offense. I don't think it's fair to say he doesn't have the right idea about offensive football when he's worked with Delhomme, Pennington, and journeyman skill guys, etc.

 

What I am saying is this: Mangini will allow the QB to win the game for him when the QB CAN win the game for him. Mangini will allow the offense to open up once the right QB is there. You saw it in the New England game and the Jets game as well when Colt was playing well.

 

Let's not forget how Belichick was winning games here in 1992 with Tomczak in there during Bernie's injury. I hate to use this as an example, but it's the best Browns-related one I have. Win the game with your defense and running game, and put the QB in position to make plays from time to time. Tomczak wasn't going to lead that rotten-ass team to the playoffs, just like Jake can't do it here. Lo and behold, Vinny comes along in 1993, Bill cuts Bernie, and then in '94, bingo, the Browns are in the playoffs on the arm of Testaverde.

 

That model is similar to what Mangini HAS to do NOW, THIS year. With Colt most likely the guy next year, and with a better OC, BOOM, we could be partying like it's 1994. The offense will be and should be trusted more next year with EM here.

[BrownsFan4Evr]

While I like Gruden, he's from my hometown, and I've met him personally (nice guy really) I think Mangini has done a good job, and we should keep him at least another year to see what he can do with a better roster.

[Kosar_For_President]

And I don't think many of us are calling Gruden a bad coach. I like the guy and think he is a great coach. But we can't keep changing coaches, it doesn't promote a healthy system.

[DawgTracker]

imho if mangini is forced out he will win a super bowl before the browns do. Imagine mangini taking over a very talented dallas team as an example. But, god better help holmgren if mangini ended up taking over an underachieving bengals team.

[shepwrite]

If the Browns fire Mangini, I think he's a DC for a couple years. He hasn't done anything to shoot up the must-have list.

[Canton Mike]

I'm sick of this anti Mangini crap too, so here's my take. The talent has been upgraded, so IF Mangini is fired, Gruden (or whomever might be the new Coach), had BETTER, with their supposed SUPERIOR coaching ability, lead us to at least ONE playoff win their first year & the Super Bowl their second, or Holmgren AND the new "Super Coach" better be fired! Does that sound ridiculous? Maybe, but why? Certainly, according to many, we should be a playoff team today when Mangini started with ZILCH!

GAWD, I'm beginning to think Gruden is gay & all his lovers post on this board. BTW, how many offers from top teams did he turn down before re-upping his broadcasting job last year? Really in demand, hunh?

Mike

[choco]

I don't even care anymore....I've resigned to idea that most people are quite literally morons and choose and opinion based on agenda rather than common sense.

 

Yup....we didn't go from the basement of the league to playoff contender in less than 2 years. A few other teams managed to do it....with no sustained success. Why can't we?

 

Just keep tearing it down and rebuilding.....it gives us something to talk about. Demanding a winner isn't gonna make it happen overnight. So let's just keep on firing everyone tilll someone gets lucky and we make the playoffs. After 10 years, we're so muchb of a better team after continujously turning over coaches, right? Why not stick with what works?

 

 

I alost hate to say this, but we've been losing so long that most of you couldnt spot a winner if it smack u in the face.

[peterbell]

When Mangini has had a healthy QB he is 18-9,,Chad in 2006,,Brett 8-3 till his arm fell off..This league is about consistent good QB play.

 

.The fact the Browns won 5 freakin games last year is literally a miracle wit those two scrubs

.The fact Mangini cast off 26 Browns (players) and only 2 are now in the NFL tells you how horrible this roster was before Mangini showed up and took out the trash.

 

Coach Mangini stays

 

I love Coach Mangini,” he said. “He made me the player I am, and he brought me here. I respect him. I think he’s a great head coach, a terrific defensive coordinator and I want him to stay.

 

-Payton Hillis-

[Gips]

imho if mangini is forced out he will win a super bowl before the browns do. Imagine mangini taking over a very talented dallas team as an example. But, god better help holmgren if mangini ended up taking over an underachieving bengals team.

Yeah right mangini is to mediocre and unintuitive to get anywhere without a premade championship team, he couldnt even get the jets to the playoffs, blame it on who you want but i agree with the jets it was mangini, the guy made a bad choice in hiring a friend as an assistant coach and betrayed the fans, lerner and even holmgren..he has to go and i say this with not a second thought..

 

If by some miracle magngini survives he will not survive but until the bye week next year, he does not have what it takes, however lamonte's stable is weak minus gruden or even getting ryan to be the HC are the only alternatives to firing mangini otherwise we may be better to keep him simply because we know how bad he actually sucks but some of lamontes guys like Mornhinweg or fox both suck as bad or worse..

And yeah all the mangini crap for and against is getting old but we wont have to tolerate it much longer