roach Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 All the Mangini talk has reached an irritating level. i never pay attention to internet rumors, and seldom listen to the knuckleheads on ESPN. But the Mangini discussion has reached the local networks and the Plain Dealer. That means it has some teeth. There is only one explanation for these sources to get involved and stick their necks out- Holmgren's office is leaking this stuff. i think it is a chicken shit way for him to approach the matter. i thought he was more of a straight up guy than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 If the hammer doesnt come down on mangini many fans are going to bring the hammer down on holmgren when failgini fails again next season and yeah holmgren is looking more and more like a gimp and yet another bad gutless lerner hire.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MudratDetector Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 is your name Kabasi on cleveland.com, gips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTracker Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 If the hammer doesnt come down on mangini many fans are going to bring the hammer down on holmgren when failgini fails again next season and yeah holmgren is looking more and more like a gimp and yet another bad gutless lerner hire.. Nope. Nine times out of ten the pessimist is right but the other time he is surprised. Mangini will stay and accomplish more than any coach here since P Brown And if they boot him he will still accomplish more than any cleveland coach since p brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timpiker Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Not sure I feel as strongly about it as you do but, yes, the way Holmgren has handled this issue all year as been ridiculous. He's had many opportunities to throw water on the fire and hasn't. He should know that the media (national and local) just looks for any signs of weakness and overstates everything for a story to sell. Which does no one any good. That's what's wrong with all of this. What good does it do? Absolutely none. Holmgren could act like all is fine and we are going in the right direction and things are getting better....then after the last game make all the changes...... There is absolutely no reason I can think of for Holmgren's childishness in the last several months going back to that press conference about 2 months ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATENEARS Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Holmgren had a opportunity to back and support this coaching staff at mid-season. Hell, he could have said nothing and it would have been supportive, but instead he held a press conference to state that he was uncomfortable in a suit and figgity on Gamedays and that is all that was needed to FUEL the negative nannies and continue recruiting a lynch-mob against Mangini. The team and coaching staff deserved better than that this season, IMO. The group showed that they had a lot of togetherness, which a team needs ... togetherness -1 (Holmgren). Someone just posted that if he sticks with Mangini and fails that it is going to be Holmgrens ass everyone turns on next. Gee, ya think? And just what do you think will happen if he pulls the trigger and his chosen one fails who comes in after Mangini? Mangini has done all the heavy lifting so far in this over-haul ... time for Heckert & Holmgren to step-up and match'em by drafting well and selecting Free Agents better (see Delohme, Wallace, and Bell for starters). Mangin paved the way by cleaning the slate and ridding the team of Savages high salary contract. The balls in your court Holmgren and your head is on the chopping block (not Mangini's), IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NW Ohio Brownie Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 All the Mangini talk has reached an irritating level. i never pay attention to internet rumors, and seldom listen to the knuckleheads on ESPN. But the Mangini discussion has reached the local networks and the Plain Dealer. That means it has some teeth. There is only one explanation for these sources to get involved and stick their necks out- Holmgren's office is leaking this stuff. i think it is a chicken shit way for him to approach the matter. i thought he was more of a straight up guy than that. Roach, Actually the "Mangini discussion" never left the Plain Dealer. It's been there since the day Eric Mangini was hired. Mary Kay and Tony G. have made sure of that. And as far as the local networks go, WKNR has served as the radio version of the PD, calling for Mangini's head relentlessly. Don't blame Holmgren, blame the agenda-driven hacks who have a pen in hand or a microphone in their faces. Ironically, the only voice of reason on KNR, if you don't count Rizzo, has been the long-reviled Aaron Goldhammer. Holmgren has said nothing because there's nothing to comment on. He will make decisions on this staff after the season and I am sure EM will be open to discussing the job security of Daboll and receivers coach George McDonald. It won't be easy for EM, but that's life in this business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MudratDetector Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 i'm glad that holmgren hasn't been more involved with the media because he shouldn't diginify the horseshit that they are printing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NW Ohio Brownie Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 i'm glad that holmgren hasn't been more involved with the media because he shouldn't diginify the horseshit that they are printing. Mudrat, Careful, you are giving horseshit a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 All the Mangini talk has reached an irritating level. i never pay attention to internet rumors, and seldom listen to the knuckleheads on ESPN. But the Mangini discussion has reached the local networks and the Plain Dealer. That means it has some teeth. There is only one explanation for these sources to get involved and stick their necks out- Holmgren's office is leaking this stuff. i think it is a chicken shit way for him to approach the matter. i thought he was more of a straight up guy than that. u thought Holmgren was a stand up guy???? after he's whined and bitched about losing to the Steelers in the SB for over half a decade??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 more season Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 All the Mangini talk has reached an irritating level. i never pay attention to internet rumors, and seldom listen to the knuckleheads on ESPN. But the Mangini discussion has reached the local networks and the Plain Dealer. That means it has some teeth. There is only one explanation for these sources to get involved and stick their necks out- Holmgren's office is leaking this stuff. i think it is a chicken shit way for him to approach the matter. i thought he was more of a straight up guy than that. So you don't listen to rumors but you'll start one? " - Holmgren's office is leaking this stuff" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 more season Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 u thought Holmgren was a stand up guy???? after he's whined and bitched about losing to the Steelers in the SB for over half a decade??? Yah and he had every right to. Deep inside Steeler fans know that was a gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Holmgren is not good for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Yah and he had every right to. Deep inside Steeler fans know that was a gift. am i man enough to know and admit we had some help winning in the form of some dropped passes and one of the poorer officiated SB's? yes. do i think there are many games that are decided that way? yes. do i think we were the best team on the field that day? yes. do i know if we played the seahawks that year 10 times would we have won the majority? yes. but in the end, he's a PROFESSIONAL (or is supposed to be) NFL HEAD COACH! not a 5yr old whinning about what the other kids have. he was legit in saying something after the game. it was getting tired when he was still harping about it the next season. and it was just sad when 5yrs later he's STILL saying stuff any chance he can get. be a professional and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 more season Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 am i man enough to know and admit we had some help winning in the form of some dropped passes and one of the poorer officiated SB's? yes. do i think there are many games that are decided that way? yes. do i think we were the best team on the field that day? yes. do i know if we played the seahawks that year 10 times would we have won the majority? yes. but in the end, he's a PROFESSIONAL (or is supposed to be) NFL HEAD COACH! not a 5yr old whinning about what the other kids have. he was legit in saying something after the game. it was getting tired when he was still harping about it the next season. and it was just sad when 5yrs later he's STILL saying stuff any chance he can get. be a professional and move on. I'll give you all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 I would rather have holmgren who has turned out to be a straight shooter. Than jerry jones and pat bowlen who gave there coach endorsment and then fired them that week. He is not being a wimp just honest. Are they serving cool aid to people in ohio or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Holmgren had a opportunity to back and support this coaching staff at mid-season. Hell, he could have said nothing and it would have been supportive, but instead he held a press conference to state that he was uncomfortable in a suit and figgity on Gamedays and that is all that was needed to FUEL the negative nannies and continue recruiting a lynch-mob against Mangini. The team and coaching staff deserved better than that this season, IMO. The group showed that they had a lot of togetherness, which a team needs ... togetherness -1 (Holmgren). Someone just posted that if he sticks with Mangini and fails that it is going to be Holmgrens ass everyone turns on next. Gee, ya think? And just what do you think will happen if he pulls the trigger and his chosen one fails who comes in after Mangini? Mangini has done all the heavy lifting so far in this over-haul ... time for Heckert & Holmgren to step-up and match'em by drafting well and selecting Free Agents better (see Delohme, Wallace, and Bell for starters). Mangin paved the way by cleaning the slate and ridding the team of Savages high salary contract. The balls in your court Holmgren and your head is on the chopping block (not Mangini's), IMO. I also do not understand Holmgren's handling of this. As President, he COULD have said he's still a little uncomfortable in a suit, but he'll leave the coaching to Mangini, but instead, he did NOTHING to squelch the rumors of his coaching again. I hope he has the good sense to retain Mangini. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 All the Mangini talk has reached an irritating level. i never pay attention to internet rumors, and seldom listen to the knuckleheads on ESPN. But the Mangini discussion has reached the local networks and the Plain Dealer. That means it has some teeth. There is only one explanation for these sources to get involved and stick their necks out- Holmgren's office is leaking this stuff. i think it is a chicken shit way for him to approach the matter. i thought he was more of a straight up guy than that. I just don't understand how this whole kill Mangini atmosphere is Holmgren fault. He sure as shit isn't leaking anything, the media is just going off of what he said at mid season which is he will evaluate the coaches at the end of the season and make a decision on what to do with the coaching staff then. I sure as hell don't see any writters saying "un-named source from the Browns office" all I hear is "Holmgren said at midseason" and "according to NFL.com". And seriously it is inevitable that people are going to eventually turn against Holmgren anyway. It is going to be the same people who have already turned against Mangini, it's going to be the same people who are going to turn on any new coach, they will also be the ones turning against Heckert when he has his first bad draft. I personally think Mangini is doing a good job and Holgren and Heckert have done a good job besides some bad mid season trades (DE Mitchel who hasn't seen the field yet and Bell [who has actually been doing better lately and Harrison wasn't going to resign with us at the end of the season regardless]). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 OTH, the owner in Denver gave his coach a lot of support, THEN he fired him. Holmgren could have denied, explained, laughed it off, affirmed that Mangini was definately going to stay, and it wouldn't have changed anything in the negative/sensational scoop press. After all, Holmgren said in the beginning that he would review things at the end of the season. Why should he change all that, because some sports writers want to be controversial. The Browns are fine, headed in an excellent direction. The only reason for Mangini to go, is because of something behind the scenes. The sensationalism isn't necessary. This team has not been thumped one time this season. That's a huge, huge improvement folks. Another draft, things will be more dramatic for the good. This time of year, sportswriters/etc run out of things to say, and, the silly season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 All the Mangini talk has reached an irritating level. i never pay attention to internet rumors, and seldom listen to the knuckleheads on ESPN. But the Mangini discussion has reached the local networks and the Plain Dealer. That means it has some teeth. There is only one explanation for these sources to get involved and stick their necks out- Holmgren's office is leaking this stuff. i think it is a chicken shit way for him to approach the matter. i thought he was more of a straight up guy than that. I'll call my cousin, writer for the PD, and tell them to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 OTH, the owner in Denver gave his coach a lot of support, THEN he fired him. Holmgren could have denied, explained, laughed it off, affirmed that Mangini was definately going to stay, and it wouldn't have changed anything in the negative/sensational scoop press. After all, Holmgren said in the beginning that he would review things at the end of the season. Why should he change all that, because some sports writers want to be controversial. The Browns are fine, headed in an excellent direction. The only reason for Mangini to go, is because of something behind the scenes. The sensationalism isn't necessary. This team has not been thumped one time this season. That's a huge, huge improvement folks. Another draft, things will be more dramatic for the good. This time of year, sportswriters/etc run out of things to say, and, the silly season starts. Mike, You're right in your points. The thing that bugs me the most about Holmgren is: -When the media addresses him as "Coach", WHY doesn't he correct them...he is NOT the Coach, Eric Mangini is! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Let's be honest here: Mangini isn't Holmgren yet. He hasn't been to a lot of playoff games, won a Super Bowl, gone to another, etc. He's no Jon Gruden either. Some of you have come to really like him, which is a little odd... but let's not get to Orwellian here. He's a coach who's never won anything and has a career losing record. He's not generally loved by football players or accused of being a player's coach. Chances are decent his record in Cleveland will be 11-21 at the end of this year, so... whatever. That's not good. That said, I think he knows NFL defenses and he learned a thing or two about team culture from Belicheck, another difficult to really like guy. He has some smarts and some skills. I don't hate him. I actually have found him pretty funny in a really dry way this year. I do hate the way he sees and handles quarterbacks, period, but that's true of a lot of defensive-leaning coaches. He needs to walk away from any and all meetings that have anything to do with the offense... and I'm not sure that makes for a great coach. Cowher pulled it off, though. The fact is that 90 percent of Planet Earth didn't expect him to be the coach this year... and it didn't make a ton of sense. When a guy like Holmgren takes over a franchise, logic dictates that he sink or swim with his own systems and his own people. For whatever reason (and some say it was Gruden's unavailability) he didn't do it from jump street. He's still itching to do everything HIS way... and I get that. But I'm not sure I understand people turning on Holmgren. Let's see what shape he leaves us in when he's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraDawg Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Shep.......you think inside the box . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Shep.......you think inside the box . Line of the day. Very Ricky Gervais. I'm gonna make a poster that wedges that in, just barely, within the limitations of the page: THINK INSIDE THE BOX. In a weird way, it's brilliant. So much of fandom is about ear-fucquing ourselves into thinking stuff that's clearly not real. Sometimes you need to pull your brain back inside "the box," meaning reality. Thinking inside the box is the new thinking outside the box. And thinking THAT is thinking outside the box. And I just made myself spontaneously high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Shep.......you think inside the box . Understatement of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Understatement of the year. I'm trying to figure a way that made any sense. It's your assertion that I'm alarmingly pedantic? Uh, right. You can't even talk yourself into that. Now go look up "pedantic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsBacker Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 There is only one explanation for these sources to get involved and stick their necks out- Holmgren's office is leaking this stuff. i think it is a chicken shit way for him to approach the matter. i thought he was more of a straight up guy than that. And just who exactly fed you this unproven conspiracy theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Mike, You're right in your points. The thing that bugs me the most about Holmgren is: -When the media addresses him as "Coach", WHY doesn't he correct them...he is NOT the Coach, Eric Mangini is! Mike ******************** Mike, I think that Holmgren was a coach so long, it's just a tag that he enjoys. He has said before, that he isn't the coach. But the nickname "coach" is well-deserved, and Mangini says he loves having Holmgren to discuss things with. If some dumb knothead refers to him as the head coach, watch him correct them quickly, and call them a knothead. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 And just who exactly fed you this unproven conspiracy theory? Holmgren, obviously. What a snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackbrownie2 Posted December 18, 2010 Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 u thought Holmgren was a stand up guy???? after he's whined and bitched about losing to the Steelers in the SB for over half a decade??? Could you possibly be more hypocritical?! How is that any different than you whining about how Tom Brady and the patriots winning super bowls because "they cheated?" Fans from all teams agree that the Super Bowl (Steelers/Seahawks) had some poor officiating. I have yet to hear anyone blame spygate for all of the Patriots Super Bowls... I am not gonna sit here and say the zebras handed you a Super Bowl, but plenty of others believe it to be true, and yet no one but you seems to discredit the Patriots Super Bowls this past decade... So accuse Holmgren all you want, but he is just stating what the vast majority of football fans feel to be true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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