Pumpkin Eater Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Lots of shit-talking about Christianity lately. People like to claim that science has proved there is no god because it has produced a few answers about the world. Perhaps those answers are to questions about how GOD created life and the world (don't give me BS about life spontaneously generating out of nowhere one day, it didn't happen, hasn't been duplicated, and still can't be explained how one day something was inanimate and the next alive... and if it did somehow spontaneously generate, why aren't new life forms constantly generating to this day?) The record of western civilization is indivisible from Jesus and Christianity. Christianity has influenced virtually all aspects of the world's history AD and western humanities: in art, music, literature, philosophy, politics, economics, theology, and science. The liberties and advantages we benefit from are the consequences of the enormous impact of Jesus. The ancient world had no health care establishments for the sick, injured, blind, deaf, or mentally ill. Greek females that were born blind or became sightless latter in life were drowned or condemned to a life of prostitution, while blind boys were treated like criminals to rowing oars in trade galleys or warships. In AD 35, Christians were the first to set up hospices and refuges for the sightless in every city. In AD 369, a Christian named Basil established the world's first unpaid philanthropic institution, a hospital in the city of Caesarea. Women in the ancient world were the possessions of men and believed by the Greeks to be defective men. Aristotle categorized women between free men and slaves. The people in Alexander and Caeser's empires disposed of female infants like trash. Single women had no worth in Greco-Roman civilization; women whose husbands died were coerced to re-marry even against their own desires. Christianity teaches that women have the same value and worth as men. Galatians 3:28: "there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ". In the Greco-Roman world, infanticide was officially authorized and often encouraged. Eventually, because of Jesus, Christians stopped infanticide and also founded the first orphanages. The ancient world had no planned charitable endeavor for society's poor and deprived. One examples is ancient India's caste system that kept nearly all men and women in financial and social poverty. Because of Jesus, the Apostle Paul organized a collection of money from European Christian churches for poor Christians in Jerusalem. Many charities, even for people who resided in far-away locations, were started because of Christian compassion. Education in the Greco-Roman world was for the aristocracy and affluent. Slaves and women were seldom educated. In the second century AD, Christians established excellent schools in Alexandria, Egypt. Christianity, through the monasteries, was also responsible for universities that were founded during the middle ages. In fact. Christians started most of the world's greatest universities for Christian purposes. The people of the ancient world had no concept of personal rights until Jesus introduced Christian principles. Emperors like Alexander and Caesar were above the law and did not understand the concept of individual rights. Christians were the first to proclaim that an emperor who had slaughtered 7,000 innocents was not above the law in AD 390. Christians insisted that even the King was not above the law in the Magna Carta. Modern science has its roots in Christianity. The ancient world religions of fatalism, illusion, and myth did not and could not produce modern science. It was a Christian world-view that was based on a rational God as the source of rational objective truth that gave rise to scientific laws. The question that the early founders of modern science pondered was "How did the Christian God make the universe?" They began with the propositional truth that God created the universe and they wanted to discover the mysteries of his creation. The early scientists were Christians and recognized patterns and a quality of inter-relationship among the many aspects of creation. The founders of modern science were all Christians. Robert Grosseteste, a minister and professor at Oxford, invented a scientific method that involved using step-by-step procedures for testing and verifying hypotheses. He called his procedure "resolution and composition." Copernicus, Napier, Bacon, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Harvey, Malpighi, Pascal, Boyle, Leeuwenhoek, Linnaeus, Herschel, Morse, Faraday, Joule, Lord Kelvin, Maxwell, Mendel, Riemann, and Pasteur were all Christians. Source: Jeffry Donley, PhD. Archaeologist, Copper scroll translator. Donley interned as Vice president of Academic affairs at Notre Dame and Dean at Yale University. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 That's an excellent article. Unless I missed it (multi-tasking), he didn't even bring up how women are treated by Muslim extremists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted February 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 I've actually paraphrased it from a Western Humanities text book. His main point is that it is irresponsible and intellectually unhonest to discount what Christianity has done for the western world or not to study it. To ignore these achievements is Christogyny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Christianity (some sects) still doesn't put women on equal footing as men, there is no reason a woman should not be allowed to run a mass or congregation. Also, the Islamic and Arabic world was huge in helping advance the scientific community. Would you champion Islam as the birthplace of modern science? In my opinion, and in disagreement with the author, I'd argue that both of them had massive impacts on modern science. I could not honestly say one had a bigger impact over the other. Both are responsible for lots of good things and lots of bad things. Also, of course the first scientists were going to be men of faith. Religion played a much bigger role in life back then, initially only the men of cloth were allowed to read, and eventually only the wealthy could become educated. That trend started to change in the 19th and 20th centuries. You're going to be hard-pressed to find prestigious scientists that are truly religious in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Growing into grace New York Times best-selling author Anne Lamott is known for her candor and honesty, as well as her outspoken political beliefs and devout faith. Olsson's Books and Records, 418 7th St. NW, will be hosting a book signing and discussion at 7 p.m. tomorrow for Miss Lamott's latest reflections on spirituality, "Grace (Eventually): Thoughts on Faith." Wiry and witty dispatches on aging, familial relationships and falls from ski lifts, "Grace" colorfully but tenderly tackles difficult moments, such as assisting a friend's suicide, and happier ones, such as when to overcome a dancing phobia and join in for the Electric Slide. The following are excerpts from an interview: Question:This is your third book on faith. How did you choose these particular stories for inclusion? Answer: They were really just the next batch that came along organically. I love being a little bit older. I really do think you grow up as you go. In "Grace," I am kind of dealing with the reality of who I am now and that I am probably not going to be too much different than this. And how I can be more graceful about handling the things I don't get. Q: How has your faith evolved during these past 20-25 years? How does your work reflect that? A: I didn't mean to become a Christian — my father hated Christians and especially Presbyterians. He was the son of Christian missionaries in Tokyo, and he just found them lacking a certain deep human quality. He called Presbyterians "God's frozen people." So I accidentally wandered into a mostly black Presbyterian church when I was 31, when I was still drinking. I didn't mean to go to church. I went in because I didn't have any more good ideas, which I think is where spirituality really begins. Little by little, I started to follow Jesus, without knowing what that meant. I had been living fairly successfully with a good career, and I had lots of loving relatives and friends. But I just thought I was the most screwed-up person on earth. I thought one day the phone would ring, and I would be busted as a fraud. I would have to get a real job, and I would get kicked out of the tribe. Jesus took me just as I was. I got sober and learned who I was. I needed to let go of this baggage that I had been carrying, this identity that I thought I needed to be a writer — suffering, narcissism and self-loathing. Q: That's an interesting idea — the perception of a writer. How would you say your faith has impacted your view on suffering and self-loathing and that in turn has impacted your writing? A: I was raised by a writer, and most of our friends were alcoholic writers also. I sort of bought into that whole thing, that somehow the suffering and the chaos you created in the world and in your own life just came with the territory. I think that has killed a lot of people. I really did worry if I got sober my gift wouldn't be there, that my gift was dependent on having this kind of edge of despair and of being larger than life, which you certainly feel like when you're drinking. You also feel as small as a lentil, so failing as a creative spirit, as a human in your own family. When I got sober it took me a really long time to be able to write again — months — and then it felt like somebody had come by and cleaned the windows. Everything I have written since I got sober has been much better than the earlier stuff. Q: How does aging affect your views on grace? A: Being a parent really grows you; so does beginning to be old enough that a number of people in your life die. It shakes you up and forces the issues of who you are and how are you going to live. How much more time are you willing to waste doing stupid stuff that doesn't matter? Q: You mentioned joy earlier. A: I think joy and sweetness and affection are a spiritual path. We're here to know God, to love and serve God, and to be blown away by the beauty and miracle of nature. You just have to get rid of so much baggage to be light enough to dance, to sing, to play. You don't have time to carry grudges; you don't have time to cling to the need to be right. Q: You have very strong political beliefs, which are influenced by your faith. In America today, there are religious people who hold equally strong, but opposite, beliefs also because of their faith. Your work has managed to attract a following among both sets of people. Why do you think that is?A: I just tell people to write what they want to come upon, what they're really like on the inside. I love it when people are real, and I love it when people are silly, and I love it when people grapple with issues of life. I really have a different way of encouraging people, which is much more toward who they really are and not who they agree to be for their families or their churches, but who they deeply and truly, authentically are. It's a relief for people that someone who can be funny is also really trying to tell the truth about what it's like to be human and a woman and an American and a Christian. Q: Where do you think the role of shame comes into all of this? A: Deciding to heal the toxic shame from our families and cultures is the single most important thing we do, the incredibly difficult work of abiding self-love. I was all but defeated by shame. Our family didn't ever have enough money. I didn't have enough money when I was raising Sam [her son] for a long time, but I had this terrible combination of shame and self-loathing, narcissism and grandiosity — it's all the same thing. Toxic self-consciousness is really part of the enemy of shame, as is perfectionism. We were raised to think we can do better; we were raised thinking we were almost OK. To me, it's the great fight we are called to do, to stand in our truth. Instead of doing what our mothers would do, clean up the living room and make it nice for others, to say to God, "I picked up the living room, but I know I won't heal if I just show you the living room. I want to show you the closet and the drawers. I am very sad, and I am very terrified because I know it's bad." That's how I experience Jesus, Him getting how deep the suffering and the shame is — and standing in the truth of you being a child of God. Source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Lots of shit-talking about Christianity lately. People like to claim that science has proved there is no god because it has produced a few answers about the world. Perhaps those answers are to questions about how GOD created life and the world (don't give me BS about life spontaneously generating out of nowhere one day, it didn't happen, hasn't been duplicated, and still can't be explained how one day something was inanimate and the next alive... and if it did somehow spontaneously generate, why aren't new life forms constantly generating to this day?) The record of western civilization is indivisible from Jesus and Christianity. Christianity has influenced virtually all aspects of the world's history AD and western humanities: in art, music, literature, philosophy, politics, economics, theology, and science. The liberties and advantages we benefit from are the consequences of the enormous impact of Jesus. The ancient world had no health care establishments for the sick, injured, blind, deaf, or mentally ill. Greek females that were born blind or became sightless latter in life were drowned or condemned to a life of prostitution, while blind boys were treated like criminals to rowing oars in trade galleys or warships. In AD 35, Christians were the first to set up hospices and refuges for the sightless in every city. In AD 369, a Christian named Basil established the world's first unpaid philanthropic institution, a hospital in the city of Caesarea. Women in the ancient world were the possessions of men and believed by the Greeks to be defective men. Aristotle categorized women between free men and slaves. The people in Alexander and Caeser's empires disposed of female infants like trash. Single women had no worth in Greco-Roman civilization; women whose husbands died were coerced to re-marry even against their own desires. Christianity teaches that women have the same value and worth as men. Galatians 3:28: "there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ". In the Greco-Roman world, infanticide was officially authorized and often encouraged. Eventually, because of Jesus, Christians stopped infanticide and also founded the first orphanages. The ancient world had no planned charitable endeavor for society's poor and deprived. One examples is ancient India's caste system that kept nearly all men and women in financial and social poverty. Because of Jesus, the Apostle Paul organized a collection of money from European Christian churches for poor Christians in Jerusalem. Many charities, even for people who resided in far-away locations, were started because of Christian compassion. Education in the Greco-Roman world was for the aristocracy and affluent. Slaves and women were seldom educated. In the second century AD, Christians established excellent schools in Alexandria, Egypt. Christianity, through the monasteries, was also responsible for universities that were founded during the middle ages. In fact. Christians started most of the world's greatest universities for Christian purposes. The people of the ancient world had no concept of personal rights until Jesus introduced Christian principles. Emperors like Alexander and Caesar were above the law and did not understand the concept of individual rights. Christians were the first to proclaim that an emperor who had slaughtered 7,000 innocents was not above the law in AD 390. Christians insisted that even the King was not above the law in the Magna Carta. Modern science has its roots in Christianity. The ancient world religions of fatalism, illusion, and myth did not and could not produce modern science. It was a Christian world-view that was based on a rational God as the source of rational objective truth that gave rise to scientific laws. The question that the early founders of modern science pondered was "How did the Christian God make the universe?" They began with the propositional truth that God created the universe and they wanted to discover the mysteries of his creation. The early scientists were Christians and recognized patterns and a quality of inter-relationship among the many aspects of creation. The founders of modern science were all Christians. Robert Grosseteste, a minister and professor at Oxford, invented a scientific method that involved using step-by-step procedures for testing and verifying hypotheses. He called his procedure "resolution and composition." Copernicus, Napier, Bacon, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Harvey, Malpighi, Pascal, Boyle, Leeuwenhoek, Linnaeus, Herschel, Morse, Faraday, Joule, Lord Kelvin, Maxwell, Mendel, Riemann, and Pasteur were all Christians. Source: Jeffry Donley, PhD. Archaeologist, Copper scroll translator. Donley interned as Vice president of Academic affairs at Notre Dame and Dean at Yale University. really? my bad for digging this up... .. but really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Really what? Your self-important superciliousness is incomprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 This first part mostly "Lots of shit-talking about Christianity lately. People like to claim that science has proved there is no god because it has produced a few answers about the world. Perhaps those answers are to questions about how GOD created life and the world (don't give me BS about life spontaneously generating out of nowhere one day, it didn't happen, hasn't been duplicated, and still can't be explained how one day something was inanimate and the next alive... and if it did somehow spontaneously generate, why aren't new life forms constantly generating to this day?) " Sorry I was just bored and looking at some old posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Some posts are better left dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Atheist can't take the truth, they will do everything in there power to cause doubt and throw dirt. It's pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Atheist can't take the truth, they will do everything in there power to cause doubt and throw dirt. It's pathetic. I can't speak for atheists but if knowledge, facts and science causes doubt in you beliefs you may want to reconsider what you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Atheist can't take the truth, they will do everything in there power to cause doubt and throw dirt. It's pathetic. lol, please tell me the Truth, I assure you I can take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Everyone knows how you take it. Long and hard, brother. Long. And hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yep, just like I stated faggot. Now STFU you little bitch. lol, this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 I don't exactly hate you, but if you were on fire and I had water, I'd drink it. i <3 you and hope to meet you at a tailgate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 I am glad that I have entertained you so if you don't mind I have to go prepare the bonfire for earth hour. We have approx 60 tires or more so how much kerosene do you think that I will need? DDT is somewhat flammable http://datasheets.scbt.com/sc-238975.pdf You could always use some of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Just clicking Don't argue with non-believers......pray for them. I don't need proof God is real....I know God is real and don't expect non believers to understand, it's why they spend large amounts of time trying to prove otherwise. Here is how I look at it.....if by chance they are right, we just end, well, I am not out anything and at minimum have had a solid root to help solidify my life. It's only for me to determine what is a solid root. If I am right and they are wrong, they are out a great deal, thus the reason we need to pray for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Just clicking Don't argue with non-believers......pray for them. I don't need proof God is real....I know God is real and don't expect non believers to understand, it's why they spend large amounts of time trying to prove otherwise. Here is how I look at it.....if by chance they are right, we just end, well, I am not out anything and at minimum have had a solid root to help solidify my life. It's only for me to determine what is a solid root. If I am right and they are wrong, they are out a great deal, thus the reason we need to pray for them. We need people to constantly push or knowledge forwards and look for answers to the big questions. We can't just have people saying "Hmmm, I don't understand this. Instead of taking the time to learn more about it I'll just credit it to god and call it a day." I'm different than you. I need proof and evidence to believe things. I am strong in the beliefs that I have because I can legitimately defend them, but I am still open to change should our knowledge expand. I won't just agree with something because I grew up hearing it and then decide I never need to try to question it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Just clicking Don't argue with non-believers......pray for them. I don't need proof God is real....I know God is real and don't expect non believers to understand, it's why they spend large amounts of time trying to prove otherwise. Here is how I look at it.....if by chance they are right, we just end, well, I am not out anything and at minimum have had a solid root to help solidify my life. It's only for me to determine what is a solid root. If I am right and they are wrong, they are out a great deal, thus the reason we need to pray for them. This is Pascal's wager. Not a very faithful nor honest way to live, if you ask me. Also, you don't "know" God is real. You might believe God is real, but knowing something requires evidence, and neither of us can prove otherwise. Why pretend that we KNOW when the best we can do is believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 This is Pascal's wager. Not a very faithful nor honest way to live, if you ask me. Also, you don't "know" God is real. You might believe God is real, but knowing something requires evidence, and neither of us can prove otherwise. Why pretend that we KNOW when the best we can do is believe? So we believe God is real - intellegent design and creationism wont fit for you? not evidence? cant prove what is squarely in front of your face? It is not your own doing is it? You believe there is air to breathe but you cant see it? Not being disrespectful to your non belief, " Why pretend that we KNOW when the best we can do is believe" That my friend, is faith in a nutshell.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 So we believe God is real - intellegent design and creationism wont fit for you? not evidence? cant prove what is squarely in front of your face? It is not your own doing is it? You believe there is air to breathe but you cant see it? Not being disrespectful to your non belief, " Why pretend that we KNOW when the best we can do is believe" That my friend, is faith in a nutshell.. Creationism and intelligent design don't have an academic scientific base supporting them We don't "believe" there is air in front of us, we know there is because we've studied it and have gained knowledge about it through science. Because just believing is NOT the best we can do. We can strive to learn more and expand our knowledge. We shouldn't just sit by and whenever we something we can't explain say "God did it" and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 So we believe God is real - intellegent design and creationism wont fit for you? not evidence? cant prove what is squarely in front of your face? It is not your own doing is it? You believe there is air to breathe but you cant see it? Not being disrespectful to your non belief, " Why pretend that we KNOW when the best we can do is believe" That my friend, is faith in a nutshell.. There's evidence that the air is there. There is no evidence, except for the Bible that we are a product of intelligent design. We are by no means the pinnacle of creation. Eagles and squid have better vision than we do. Men have nipples. When males develop, the testes must descend, there is a rather large chance, maybe .5% that a problem occurs during this process, and you are left with hermaphrodites. People not quite male, not quite female. Down syndrome. Kleinfelter syndrome. If we are so intelligently designed, why are so many people suffering from depression? Here's a hint: "God works in mysterious ways," or "Because we aren't living how God wanted us to," are not sufficient answers. I, personally, could never put faith in something that created this world, knowing the evils that would come of it, and please, don't even get started with the concept of free will, it's just as hollow as creationism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 There's evidence that the air is there. There is no evidence, except for the Bible that we are a product of intelligent design. We are by no means the pinnacle of creation. Eagles and squid have better vision than we do. Men have nipples. When males develop, the testes must descend, there is a rather large chance, maybe .5% that a problem occurs during this process, and you are left with hermaphrodites. People not quite male, not quite female. Down syndrome. Kleinfelter syndrome. If we are so intelligently designed, why are so many people suffering from depression? Here's a hint: "God works in mysterious ways," or "Because we aren't living how God wanted us to," are not sufficient answers. I, personally, could never put faith in something that created this world, knowing the evils that would come of it, and please, don't even get started with the concept of free will, it's just as hollow as creationism. I know that I am not able to volley back an answer to dispute you without spending alot of time... I would rather tip my beer to you in a friendly "agree to disagree" and come back some other time. I hope you feel the same... have a great day ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I know that I am not able to volley back an answer to dispute you without spending alot of time... I would rather tip my beer to you in a friendly "agree to disagree" and come back some other time. I hope you feel the same... have a great day ! Wow. Someone being polite? Here? A great day to you too, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Wow. Someone being polite? Here? A great day to you too, sir. WOW your arrogance Knows NO bounds last word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I know that I am not able to volley back an answer to dispute you without spending alot of time... I would rather tip my beer to you in a friendly "agree to disagree" and come back some other time. I hope you feel the same... have a great day ! I understand you not wanting to respond because you have other stuff to do (I do that on here too, or I at least should do that more). But if you do find the time I'd really like to read how you would dispute Vapor or me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I understand you not wanting to respond because you have other stuff to do (I do that on here too, or I at least should do that more). But if you do find the time I'd really like to read how you would dispute Vapor or me. he is right - ballpeenJust clicking Don't argue with non-believers......pray for them. I don't need proof God is real....I know God is real and don't expect non believers to understand, it's why they spend large amounts of time trying to prove otherwise. Here is how I look at it.....if by chance they are right, we just end, well, I am not out anything and at minimum have had a solid root to help solidify my life. It's only for me to determine what is a solid root. If I am right and they are wrong, they are out a great deal, thus the reason we need to pray for them.-] So as per disputing you and vapor on something that wont get to a conclusion... in the words of GHW Bush "I'm not gonna do it" but I will pray for you both too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 he is right - So as per disputing you and vapor on something that wont get to a conclusion... in the words of GHW Bush "I'm not gonna do it" but I will pray for you both too! Sorry, to push this but you're quoting peen. Do you believe in God for the same reasons he does? Because you're scared of being wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Sorry, to push this but you're quoting peen. Do you believe in God for the same reasons he does? Because you're scared of being wrong? yes I was quoting "peen" and scared of nothing my friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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