Browns57 Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 I like Peterson. If he isn't there, I like Fairly...I like A DLman who will punch someone in the face every now and then. Sometimes the message is worth 15 yards. I agree that Peterson has to be the pick if he is there. We would have won 2 or 3 more games last year if we had just a pretty good corner opposite of Haden. If Green is there and Peterson is gone of course I take Green. But Peterson is the guy that I hope we get. If they are both gone maybe we trade down a few picks and still go after Julio Jones. I could be in the minority here but I think Jones has more upside then Green. But then again he could up being the next Braylon Edwards. But I don't get the sense that will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 I understand Gip and i know your one of the most knowledgeable people on here i just opened the thread and saw very long posts of agruments for Offense and Defense...And yes you are correct you need both.. I was just trying to get back towards the draft talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor_g Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 No question, Peterson is my pick if he's there. Green is next on my list. If both are gone along with Dareus, that's when things get tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Thanks for August Post Mel. Now I might add a few tidbits, the average score of the winning Super Bowl team is 31 points. That says the team that finishes second got its defense shredded in the big game. See Aaron Rodgers destroying the Steelers D. Also, there are lot of undrafted or released FA OL guys starting and playing well on a lot of teams. The Steelers had at least two playing in the Super Bowl. And GB probably had at least one as well. Now before going with conventional unwisdom and throwing me under the bus, think about a few things. First off, if you get behind, how is a defense going to win a game. Second, only RB's, QB, WR's TE's and the center touch the ball. Those skill players and solid center are the core of a championship football team. These are the guys who make offenses go as opposed to conventional unwisdom. These are the guys who pound susposed championship defenses when the talent is supreme. We are pathetic at WR, and if you think a West Coast Offense that is pop gun wil work you are mistaken. You need receivers who stretch the field in any successful offense. John Taylor and Jerry Rice were always deep threats in the SF well run WCO. And Philly which is running it now has real field stretchers. Now consider our RB situation, we are one injury or bad season to Peyton Hillis from having nothing at RB. We need two more players at RB who can perform. I am also concerned that Hillis is another Rueben Droughs who was successful more for heart that talent last year. Teams will be more ready for him this year especially if we do not add a quality WR or two. (How many super bowls does peyton manning have with his awsome offence? Now just imagine if he had or has a top 5 D year after year. He with out a doubt would have the most sb wins of any qb and his stats would be through the roof. Let's look at the ravens when they beat the giants in the SB, was it their superb O that won that SB or the shut down D? Now to touch on Zombo's stats. The offensive stats are going to be greater if your offense is on the field and has more opportunities to score your offense is going to look better and be better. But you need to have balance but I feel the balance should be heavier on the defensive side of the ball. And like I pointed out this is an awsome year for drafting defense we need to build on what's present and take advantage. If we don't get a top wr this year oh well get one next year, it seems to be the trend to have a good wr draft every other year anyway.) The dawg pound ( i use small letters because i wish it did not exist) (Really? I Don't know of any self respecting browns fans that would ever make a statement like that.) Remember once more D does not score points and D cannot drive you down the field at the end of a game when you are losing. Only superior offense keeps scoring to keep you ahead (Remember D keeps the other team from scoring and gets you the ball back.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 And btw the Cardinals are really getting hot on the Peterson bus, id be pretty pissed if The Bungles took Green and then Peterson went to the Cardinals...If that's the case just trade back and take Cam Jordan or Ryan Kerrigan... You HAVE to remember- the days leading up to the draft, the smoke is so thick you can't see through it. I for one give zero credence to any "reports" coming out from various teams. Do the Cardinals need a corner? Sure. They also badly need a quarterback. From NFL.comThe Cardinals also have been known to trade down. Of course, nobody was offering any hints in the front office. "Nothing," general manager Rod Graves said, "is off the board." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondwave Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 You HAVE to remember- the days leading up to the draft, the smoke is so thick you can't see through it. I for one give zero credence to any "reports" coming out from various teams. Do the Cardinals need a corner? Sure. They also badly need a quarterback. From NFL.comThe Cardinals also have been known to trade down. Of course, nobody was offering any hints in the front office. "Nothing," general manager Rod Graves said, "is off the board." That's true, but this does deserve some attention. After all, the Cardinals are trying to make a play at Kolb, so if thats the case, Peterson automatically (unless Von Miller is still there) goes up #1 on their big board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondwave Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 You HAVE to remember- the days leading up to the draft, the smoke is so thick you can't see through it. I for one give zero credence to any "reports" coming out from various teams. Do the Cardinals need a corner? Sure. They also badly need a quarterback. From NFL.comThe Cardinals also have been known to trade down. Of course, nobody was offering any hints in the front office. "Nothing," general manager Rod Graves said, "is off the board." That's true, but this does deserve some attention. After all, the Cardinals are trying to make a play at Kolb, so if thats the case, Peterson automatically (unless Von Miller is still there) goes up #1 on their big board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Agreed that if Miller wont be there for the Cardinals they could potential take who we want ethier Green or Peterson, both could be high on there boards which would really suck for us...But then maybe they reach for Quinn you never know... If they indeed do take Peterson as i suggested we trade back with whoever wants Gabbert and take BPA then while acquring more picks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 high bust factor follows all WR's....may be the sexy pick but not the smart one. anyone really think that adding a WR is gonna all of a sudden make us a top 10 offense? lmao if anyone does.... the object is to score more points than the other team. even if adding a WR will help us score a bit more, we have nothing on the other side to prevent other teams from scoring. so we lose anyway. its not like this is the last draft thats gonna put us over the top. we're still building like it or not. BPA on O or D....or its a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnuh Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I too would love to grab Peterson ... I would also love to see Greg Little and Casey Matthews in later rounds. Lets hope for the best and see what Heckert can do for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Von Miller is my guy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 high bust factor follows all WR's....may be the sexy pick but not the smart one. anyone really think that adding a WR is gonna all of a sudden make us a top 10 offense? lmao if anyone does.... the object is to score more points than the other team. even if adding a WR will help us score a bit more, we have nothing on the other side to prevent other teams from scoring. so we lose anyway. its not like this is the last draft thats gonna put us over the top. we're still building like it or not. BPA on O or D....or its a waste. High bust factor follows all positions, though I'd tend to believe CBs drafted high have a relatively better success rate in the NFL. I'll still take Green over Peterson- The Browns are way closer to being decent on offense than defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 High bust factor follows all positions, though I'd tend to believe CBs drafted high have a relatively better success rate in the NFL. I'll still take Green over Peterson- The Browns are way closer to being decent on offense than defense. Didn't you actually mean it the other way around? Based on last year the Browns were closer to being decent on defense than on offense. Offensively they ranked 31st in points scored and 29th in yards gained; where, on defense, they ranked 13th in fewest points allowed and 22d in yards allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Apperantly Von Miller is a going to Denver now, this could start more Dominos look for AJ to go to Bungles and then Cardinals grab Peterson..Aint this a bitch, if we stay put we do not need to reach for Jones we should take are BPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Really? Our resident Steeler fan believes offense wins championships? Did you pass this by Mean Joe, Blount, Lambert, Woodson, Harrison, Polamulo et al? Steeler Super Bowl Seasons: 1974: Off #8 Def #1 1975: Off #7 Def #4 1978: Off #8 Def#3 1979: Off #1 Def #2 2005: Off #15 Def #4 2008 Off #22 Def #1 Defensive rankings: 1,4,3,2,4,1 Ave: #2.5 Offensive rankings: 8,7,8,1,15,22 Ave: #10.2 CLEARLY the Steelers stuck to the wise old phrase "offense wins championships" In reality, you need a very good defense to compete for championships, it is proven over and over again. Of course, you need playmakers on offense, and if you have Drew Brees or Peyton Manning you can make it all the way if your defense rises to the occasion. But let's look at the current Browns: We invested a #1 at left Tackle, we invested a #1 at Center, and then we STOLE a franchise QB (trust me on this ... the Browns are buying in and so am I) in last year's draft and STOLE a lead running back by getting rid of a wasted 1st round pick spent on a QB. Also, we invested two second rounders on WRs two years ago, and some times patience pays off: Robiskie was playing very well at the end of the season. Not to mention, we drafted Hillis' running mate, last year. Our offense is young and talented. Do we need a true #1 wideout? Sure. Do we need to keep stockpiling talent every year? Sure. Do we HAVE to spend the #1 pick on offense this year? Hell No. Don't be surprised if there is a surplus of defensive picks this year as we transition form 3-4 to 4-3. We are revamping the DL and the linebacking corps, and we need another corner, so why not bookend Hayden with the guy that I feel is the best football player in the draft? I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns feel that way either. However ... if we end up with an A.J. Green or a Julio Jones I will have a big smile across my face ... or one of the blue chip Defensive linemen ...I think we are in perfect position this year. Some teams are going to reach on a QB and we are going to have a Top 5 player in a position of need fall right into our lap. It seems that many years where we held a high pick it wasn't a great draft (for example, the Courtney Brown and Braylon Edwards years) ... but this year, we can't go wrong ... we will get a game-changer. Zombo no you do not get it even during the Steel Curtain they had Rocky Bleir, Fanco Harris, John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, and Terry Bradshaw ......three of them are hall of famers and Stallworth should.....and oh yeah they had a great defense but it was the offense that scored when needed and ran the clock when needed....the stupidest stat in football is ranking yards for an offense to determine how good they are,,,,,,,a best measure is do they score when losing.........because thati is what winning championships is about being able to score when you have too.........BTW, the steelers won jack shit without a potent offense for twenty years on defense and no offense until they got Big Ben and Tne Bus and Fast Willie and Santjonio Holmes and now the new studs on offense.......Steeler management understands winning and it is about offense...........especially the QB......something we have lost in Cleveland and embraced by your ill founded enumeration of useless stats.... But you keep reminding us the one team that one the super bowl on defense while every other won it on offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I see Rich is forever endowed in steeler history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 We have to go D this year to stop those in our division. We play Bal and Pit at the very end of the season and it will be very cold and there will be lots of running by them. We need to pressure better, and we need great run support. To many holes on our D not to take a DE or DT or LB or CB with our first 2 picks. With a new scheme to our O I think our current wr's will be able to score just fine. Colt will have had a lot more time with the guys to get their timing down. Oh ya one last thing if Jake is on our roster at the begining of the year, the we deserve to lose, he throws more tds to the other team than his own. 1-Quinn, Fairley, Watt 2-Clayborn, Paea, Hayward 3-Jerrell Jernagin wr- This guy is a Steve smith clone he dont run a 4.3 but has amazing speed changes and superb shiftiness. As much as I want to get petterson, I think Eric Wright will bounce back this year. He will battle Haden for the number 1 spot. Our D line needs to get beefed up, but I also just remembered that we still have Matt Roth on our team for next year, he will be a killer on the DE spot in the 4-3. We been going D since 2000 and have be D ever since as in Dreadful..........keep making the same mistakes..........and we DID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 We been going D since 2000 and have be D ever since as in Dreadful..........keep making the same mistakes..........and we DID Actually since 99 we have taken offensive players 8 out of 11 times in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Guys give it a rest you can win a Super Bowl both ways with a tremendous Offense or a Tremendous Defense...Its been done with both so arguing over which is needed is pretty much a stupid dicussion seeing how theres points for both sides of the argument.. I agree we Need AJ Green and think 6 is a reach for Jones... Imange if that trade talk is true we take Peterson at 6 and then Jones at 12 from Minnesota.. And btw the Cardinals are really getting hot on the Peterson bus, id be pretty pissed if The Bungles took Green and then Peterson went to the Cardinals...If thats the case just trade back and take Cam Jordan or Ryan Kerrigan... The reason the trade back could be had is because if the Bengals take Green and Cardinals take Peterson that means Gabbert is on the Board, which if i were the Browns would be acution his ass off to the highest bidder and move back a bit..Washington,Tennessee,Minnesota any of them may wannna leap frog SF to grab him Which team won the super Bowl on Defense...........try to get past ONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Self respecting? where the hell was the dawg pound during the Browns eight Championship Seasons featuring magnificent offense.........NON EXISTENT.....................so here you are saying the self respecting denies the winning browns crediiblity and salute the losers of the Dawg Pound era.........and the decade of dawg dung we just experienced............. maybe you need to understand just how self disrespecitng all the dawg pound bullshit really is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Hey rich finish your beer and go beat your wife, because no one knows wtf your talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 no you do not get it even during the Steel Curtain they had Rocky Bleir, Fanco Harris, John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, and Terry Bradshaw ......three of them are hall of famers and Stallworth should.....and oh yeah they had a great defense but it was the offense that scored when needed and ran the clock when needed....the stupidest stat in football is ranking yards for an offense to determine how good they are,,,,,,,a best measure is do they score when losing.........because thati is what winning championships is about being able to score when you have too.........BTW, the steelers won jack shit without a potent offense for twenty years on defense and no offense until they got Big Ben and Tne Bus and Fast Willie and Santjonio Holmes and now the new studs on offense.......Steeler management understands winning and it is about offense...........especially the QB......something we have lost in Cleveland and embraced by your ill founded enumeration of useless stats.... But you keep reminding us the one team that one the super bowl on defense while every other won it on offense Your whole post here, again, simply supports the fact that you need quality balance. The 70s Steelers were not going to win without BOTH those good players (roided up players?) on offense and the players on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Which team won the super Bowl on Defense...........try to get past ONE Several recent examples: 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, 2005 Steelers. All great defenses, all mediocre offenses. On the flip side, the recent Colts had a great offense and a mediocre defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefjerky Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Several recent examples: 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, 2005 Steelers. All great defenses, all mediocre offenses. On the flip side, the recent Colts had a great offense and a mediocre defense. I'm surprised you didn't include the 07 Giants, they sacked the hell out of Tom Brady in the Super Bowl, and won that game mostly on defense besides the amazing clutch game winning drive. They generally had a mediocre offense and a superb, elite defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyalty Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 My Guy = Casey Matthews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I'm surprised you didn't include the 07 Giants, they sacked the hell out of Tom Brady in the Super Bowl, and won that game mostly on defense besides the amazing clutch game winning drive. They generally had a mediocre offense and a superb, elite defense. OK, very good. I wasn't trying to come up with a comprehensive list, just some examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Hey rich finish your beer and go beat your wife, because no one knows wtf your talking about. i GOT AN IDEA............i NEVER INSULTED YOU ASSHOWIPE..........SO LETS MEET AT YOUR SUGGESTED PLACE AND PLEASE SAY WHAT YOU DID AGAIN.........AND THEN LETS SETTLE THIS MAN TO MAN GO FOR IT IDIOT...........GOT SOME GUTS............no......PUNK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Your whole post here, again, simply supports the fact that you need quality balance. The 70s Steelers were not going to win without BOTH those good players (roided up players?) on offense and the players on defense. Thanks again, but did I ever say balance was not needed? What I have said continuously and the statistics and results prove it............... that in the end Game OFFENSE WINS Championships despite obvious conventional unwisdom SO TAKE YOU STANCE ARE YOU WITH OR WITH THE FRAUD................defense wins championships? go for it take a stance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 and one more thing all you guys spouting defense.......why is the average score of the winner in the Super Bowl 31+ points THERE IS NO ESCAPE TO SAY THIS IS BECAUSE DEFENSE DID IT KEEP BLOWING SMOKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 i GOT AN IDEA............i NEVER INSULTED YOU ASSHOWIPE..........SO LETS MEET AT YOUR SUGGESTED PLACE AND PLEASE SAY WHAT YOU DID AGAIN.........AND THEN LETS SETTLE THIS MAN TO MAN GO FOR IT IDIOT...........GOT SOME GUTS............no......PUNK Ahhhh yeah you have. Actually you have probably insulted everyone on this board a time or two. if you don't like it to FU**ING BAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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