Thomaspro Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 DT, DE, FB, and WR. My question is we got 4 starters out of last years draft. QB, S, CB, (Hillis in trade.). So how many more of this awesome drafting by Heckert do we need before we are playoff bound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgels Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Hopefully 0, but I have a feeling that with a coaching change, things will take a while to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasont44094 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 That Cb Skrine unless he muffs punts in camp will become the punt returner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 They all may be starters for this team, but that doesn't necessarily make them good enough to be starters on good teams. Before we crown this an awesome draft, i'd like to see how the new guys play. They may not be starter caliber, you just never know. I'm not trying to be negative, but we need to keep things in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTracker Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Hopefully 0, but I have a feeling that with a coaching change, things will take a while to develop. If the problem was the coaching we should do well next season, new coach and same great talent. Plus with another year to develop the current players should be studs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondwave Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 If the problem was the coaching we should do well next season, new coach and same great talent. Plus with another year to develop the current players should be studs I hate to burst a lot of bubbles, but our team doesn't have "great" talent overall. We got a few great players but our 'ensemble' of a cast is nowhere near the likes of New England, Green Bay, New York, hell, even Detroit. If we did happen to make a wild card spot, we'd get destroyed in the playoffs. We're gonna take a while to develop. Rome wasn't built in a day. We've got some great building blocks though. At this pace, we could be constant playoff contenders in 2 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 DT, DE, FB, and WR. My question is we got 4 starters out of last years draft. QB, S, CB, (Hillis in trade.). So how many more of this awesome drafting by Heckert do we need before we are playoff bound? hmmm, maybe let them play a down in the nfl before you start trying to get them into canton? I hate to burst a lot of bubbles, but our team doesn't have "great" talent overall. We got a few great players but our 'ensemble' of a cast is nowhere near the likes of New England, Green Bay, New York, hell, even Detroit. If we did happen to make a wild card spot, we'd get destroyed in the playoffs. We're gonna take a while to develop. Rome wasn't built in a day. We've got some great building blocks though. At this pace, we could be constant playoff contenders in 2 years or so. see, this is the attitude all browns fans should have. realistic optimism. i think the browns have taken the first baby steps towards actually being able to compete in the afcn, but like this intelligent poster above said, it takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 I hate to burst a lot of bubbles, but our team doesn't have "great" talent overall. We got a few great players but our 'ensemble' of a cast is nowhere near the likes of New England, Green Bay, New York, hell, even Detroit. If we did happen to make a wild card spot, we'd get destroyed in the playoffs. We're gonna take a while to develop. Rome wasn't built in a day. We've got some great building blocks though. At this pace, we could be constant playoff contenders in 2 years or so. i agree. even if you think the coaching was bad last year, 'great talent' would have shone through. we've got a decent 1/2 of an O line. a 2nd year QB who we all hope will blossom in the new scheme. one great running back and one gimp, no weapons (so far) for the QB to throw to, one good starter on the DL who will be surrounded by rookies this year, a half way decent LB corp and a good secondary. that on paper does not scream out playoffs to me. hell we might even go backwards a step this year before it's all figured out. you might even hear some "bring back mangini chants" by the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovah Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Agreeing with all the comments about our talent levels. Since our team came back we've grown complacent and accepting towards our overall team talent. Starters in past regimes were seen as always good and we got used to it even though Pittsburgh crushed us every year. With Holmgren and Heckert take over I see more and more fans realize how shit*y our past teams were. Just because we get starters out of our recent drafts it doesn't mean we're becoming elite, we're just drafting and evaluating talent MUCH better. It'll be at least a couple more years before we become elite like Green Bay whom BUILT through the draft and even with so many injuries this past year, won the Superbowl because of their depth from the draft and overall talent level. We can only hope H/H are leading us in that direction. With regards to your question about how many more players we'll need to make the playoffs, I say just 1 or 2 more good drafts. But that's just making the playoffs with not too uch effort...winning playoff games and the Superbowl i don't see us in for another 3-4 years now because of our new coaching turnover. Many people quote the Bucs or the Chiefs as a team we could be, crap one year and great the next. But i often disagree with that as their teams were young and talented just with bad previous coaches. I think in our case Mangini was a great coach, a decent GM but was in over his head with our franchise "needing to win now" and thus had wayyyyy too many older vets on the team from Savage's sh*t trades and signings. We're not a young team in a sense that our defense front seven had an average age on the wrong side of 30. We're not building off of a young talented foundation...we're still trying to recover from years of bad drafts and average to just plain old players littered throughout our roster. I only see our last 2010 draft as being a truly successful one, all our previous drafts are moot because we never retained most of the picks anyway (Winslow, Brayon, Wimbley) and we flopped on many of our high picks (Maiava, MAYBE robo and mass). I know we're all excited but we're still years away from what we all want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 I never predict w/l records, etc, but as awful as our drafts had been for so long, I don't think anyone can disagree that Heckert & Co have significantly upgraded the talent. That, combined with a FO & Coaching Staff that are on the same page, certainly give us a more enjoyable Team to watch. It's far easier to be patient when we are no longer going backwards! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Agreeing with all the comments about our talent levels. Since our team came back we've grown complacent and accepting towards our overall team talent. Starters in past regimes were seen as always good and we got used to it even though Pittsburgh crushed us every year. With Holmgren and Heckert take over I see more and more fans realize how shit*y our past teams were. Just because we get starters out of our recent drafts it doesn't mean we're becoming elite, we're just drafting and evaluating talent MUCH better. It'll be at least a couple more years before we become elite like Green Bay whom BUILT through the draft and even with so many injuries this past year, won the Superbowl because of their depth from the draft and overall talent level. We can only hope H/H are leading us in that direction. With regards to your question about how many more players we'll need to make the playoffs, I say just 1 or 2 more good drafts. But that's just making the playoffs with not too uch effort...winning playoff games and the Superbowl i don't see us in for another 3-4 years now because of our new coaching turnover. Many people quote the Bucs or the Chiefs as a team we could be, crap one year and great the next. But i often disagree with that as their teams were young and talented just with bad previous coaches. I think in our case Mangini was a great coach, a decent GM but was in over his head with our franchise "needing to win now" and thus had wayyyyy too many older vets on the team from Savage's sh*t trades and signings. We're not a young team in a sense that our defense front seven had an average age on the wrong side of 30. We're not building off of a young talented foundation...we're still trying to recover from years of bad drafts and average to just plain old players littered throughout our roster. I only see our last 2010 draft as being a truly successful one, all our previous drafts are moot because we never retained most of the picks anyway (Winslow, Brayon, Wimbley) and we flopped on many of our high picks (Maiava, MAYBE robo and mass). I know we're all excited but we're still years away from what we all want. How do you count Maiava a flop when he has only played one year (was on IR all last season) and was a 4th round pick. When you get into the 4th round it is more of a crap shoot anyway so players not working out there are not that big of a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Its possible we already have enough talent to be a flimsy playoff team if we were in a weak division but alas, we are not.. Im thinking if colt and 2 or 3 of our new picks work out we are only 1 or 2 good to very good drafts away from serious and continuous contention, regardless heckerts trade will be better understood and appreciated by some of the angry fans rather colt works out or not because in april 2012 this clubs regime will have a much clearer picture of where we really stand and exactly what we need to move forward and we will have the picks to either leverage trade up/down or maybe start adding some top end building blocks if the foundation is strong, tom heckert has the GM skills and knows how to build a winner talent wise from the ground up and with the coach and president on the same page instead of in the way its only a matter of when not if... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefjerky Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Maiava did not flop, before he got injured he had more tackles with less playing time than Aaron Curry who was a top 5 pick. I'm hoping they keep him around and develop him more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovah Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 my bad meant Veikune I always mix them up lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 my bad meant Veikune I always mix them up lol That's who i thought you ment... but I can never remember how to spell his name so I didn't try. I like Maiava. He cam from the Clay Mathews LB corp at USC and was a back up (not surprising with all 3 starts going in the first two rounds). He is still relativity untested but I honestly think the switch back to a 4-3 will help him out and at worst he should be a good back up which isn't bad for a 4th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 hmmm, maybe let them play a down in the nfl before you start trying to get them into canton? I don't think he was putting them in the Hall of Fame, I think he was just assuming they would make the Browns starting lineup. You do see the difference, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 "I don't think he was putting them in the Hall of Fame, I think he was just assuming they would make the Browns starting lineup. You do see the difference, don't you?" i don't think he really believed that i thought he was trying to put them into the hof, i was just using sarcasm to show that it's ludacrous to say someone's gonna be a starter (let alone 4 people) before they've even touched a football on the pro level. you see the difference, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htownbrown Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 The thing about this division is if you win it you are legit superbowl contenders. What makes it especially tough is although we are getting better, so is everyone else, well except Cincy. We're not closing the gap as fast as it seems. I see 3 years minimum before we pull even with the Ravens and Steelers. The Steelers have a couple stars and so do the Ravens, but the organization itself has a winning mentality. That's why they win games. Ever notice how guys leave Pittsburgh and then they fall off the map? That's because we have mostly the same talent, but we haven't instilled the same winning experience and background. It hasn't been here since BB was coach. The awful part of it is the Steelers could swap 50% of their team with us and go to the superbowl next year!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Baloney. winning attitudes come with winning. Winning comes with having the right talent in the right places. That's been the Browns' downfall - drafting the right talent for the right places. The Browns played like a very different team last year, but still had major weaknesses. This last draft seals up some of those weak links. Now, things will get a lot tougher for their opponents. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 "I don't think he was putting them in the Hall of Fame, I think he was just assuming they would make the Browns starting lineup. You do see the difference, don't you?" i don't think he really believed that i thought he was trying to put them into the hof, i was just using sarcasm to show that it's ludacrous to say someone's gonna be a starter (let alone 4 people) before they've even touched a football on the pro level. you see the difference, don't you? I think it is appropriate to assume that any draft should equate to 4 starters on a team....if the people doing the drafting are competent. And expecially if there are 'openings" on the starting roster for that talent. Because the Browns have done such a bad job of drafting in the past where we were lucky to get 1 or 2 decent players these "openings" exist. Because Robiskie and MoMass haven't panned out (yet) there is an opening at starting WR....that we should expect Greg Little to fill. Because they dumped Shaun Rogers and are going to a 4-3 there is an opening for a starting DT on this team which we should expect Phil Taylor to fill. Because Kameron Wimbley etc. didn't pan out there is an opening for a pass rushing DE on this team which we should expect Sheard to fill. Because they are apparently going to let Lawrence Vickers go there will be an opening at fullback which we should expect Marecic to fill. So, yes, definitely there are holes to fill on this team from which this draft SHOULD produce 4 starters from. The question you didn't ask which you should is not whether we should be readying busts in the HOF for them, but whether it is realistic that the fruits of this draft and the last draft should lead to a playoff berth for the Browns? It would have legitimate on your part to question that assertion, i.e. these drafts will lead to playoffs, rather than the one you did ask. Browns SHOULD expect 4 starters from this draft, and 4 from the last draft (Haden, Ward, Lauvao, McCoy). That doesn't mean they should expect playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 The thing about this division is if you win it you are legit superbowl contenders. What makes it especially tough is although we are getting better, so is everyone else, well except Cincy. We're not closing the gap as fast as it seems. I see 3 years minimum before we pull even with the Ravens and Steelers. The Steelers have a couple stars and so do the Ravens, but the organization itself has a winning mentality. That's why they win games. Ever notice how guys leave Pittsburgh and then they fall off the map? That's because we have mostly the same talent, but we haven't instilled the same winning experience and background. It hasn't been here since BB was coach. The awful part of it is the Steelers could swap 50% of their team with us and go to the superbowl next year!! It wasn't here when BB was here. He had losing years in 4 of his 5 season's here. In fairness, he learned later to bring a winning attitude to his team, but he didn't do it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnuh Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 I honestly think Pinkston has a shot to start at RT as well. TheGipper - I would be a little disspointed if Lauvao starts over Billy Yates if Yates comes back healthy. I love what Yates was able to do when he played last year. Lauvao didn't impress me much. We will see though. I think we do get a 4th guy contributing from last years draft though ... that guy could be Hardesty or Mitchell though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c-dawg Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 You guys give Steelerfag way too much credit by indulging his sarcastic remarks like he actually has a contribution to make. He is a low level Lumbergh and you know it. Treat him as such: an improvident lackwit who cannot help but troll another team's site. Like so: HEY STEELERFAG! Here's some logic for you. I am not personally aware that you have ever touched someone on a professionally gay pornographic level, but the homoerotic crisis in your soul is evident and I bet everything I own that you would be great at it. Now stop sending me messages asking me out. It is creepy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alporcini Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Don't want to sound like too much of a USC homer, but I thought that the only fulltime LB who played better than Kaluka CONSISTENTLY was Cushing (given that the Trojans used Clay a fair amount as an end). Rey Rey played out of control. Maiava was a beast on D and on Special teams. I loved that pick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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