Peter King On When Browns Become Legit Playoff Contenders

[MDHQ]

I would say another year away at the earliest. Hillis is a beast, but Colt is going to need another full season to make some young mistakes before he is ready to be "The Man"

[choco]

so...just how is it possible to have evidence that the browns will be better until the season is over?

 

i stopped reading after this completely xxxxing genius statement from a complete xxxxing genius. you go ghoolie...someone somewhere likes your idiocy.

[The Gipper]

Enthusiasm of being Browns fans aside, there is no hard evidence to suggest that the Browns 2011 season is going to be any more successful than the 2010.

 

Completely true, but there is no hard evidence to suggest that they won't be more successful.

 

 

In addition there is absolutely no hard evidence that the Browns are "finally" building the foundation with which future winners will be born from.

 

Possibly true...IF you believe that Haden, Ward, McCoy etc. from last year's draft are going to all be busts. I say that there is evidence that they are building a winning foundation, but it is only evidence. It is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You apparently want to jump right to the verdict stage...and I say the Browns are just past their opening statement.

 

You "building the foundation" guys have to be honest with yourselves. It wasn't that long ago when you were trashing ANY of us who dared suggested that Phil Sewage was a complete phony. I am not going to do it, but you go back and look at the posts you guys were putting up back then.

 

It was the SAME EXACT gobblydygook you are espousing now. Essentially you suggest that we have acquired a lot of young, high potential, high-quality draft picks, and that these guys are really going to be the juice.

 

 

So, what you are saying Ghoolie is that we all have to be like you? We all have to be "glass half empty" sorts? Always expect negative results? I understand how a Browns fan can be that way, given the history of the last 20 years. But I prefer to not exercise corporal mortification forever and ever where the Browns are concerned. At some point our penance has to have been served.

Forgive me, but you guys post this same shit over, and over and over. Look, All OTHER 31 teams has the SAME EXACT UPSIDE that we do. They too, have drafted young talent that they too, hope will build their future.

 

Given the speculative nature of the draft, it is COPLETELY FOOLISH to think that our draft additions alone are going ot catapult us past the Ravens, Steelers and Bengals, let alone the other NFL teams.

 

I am not sure that anyone is saying that the Browns draft picks alone are going to catapult us past those other teams. But you have to at some point acquire the materials to build that catapult. Maybe the Browns will build a trebuchet instead. Look at how the Ravens and Steelers built themselves. Primarily through the draft I would surmise. There is nothing wrong in expecting that the Browns should make similar quality draft selections as those teams have over the years. (It hasn't happened, but, nevertheless it should be expected)

 

Here is the problem I have. The Browns organization doesn't have a football culture. The Steelers do, but the Browns don't. As an example, Cowher left, but the Steelers remained basically the same, exact kind of team. However they do it they draft bastards who deliver on game day.

 

The Browns do not have that track record and they don't as of right now, have a defined culture that we can point out as the fuel that feeds the fire. We don't have a track record of drafting amazing players, so, all you "foundations" guys really have to promote here is your love for the Browns and your optimism that,

 

Well, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't bringing in Holmgren and Heckert...proven football men, meant to infuse this franchise with that "football culture", whatever that means? I mean, those guys DO have a track record of some success, though it is not with the Browns. Holmgren has a track record as a coach and GM that took two teams to SBs. Heckert has a track record that took a team to a SB and to several NFC title games with the players he drafted. Yes, I think they have to reprove themselves here, but that football culture certainly seems plausible with them here.

"If this guys pans out, if this guy is what we think he is, if, if , if................."

 

Whether you love the Browns or not, you have to use common sense. We don't match up very well man-to man with the better teams in the NFL. We don't have a lot of positions where we can state with any certainty that we are solid and can match the opposition's guy very well.

 

I think we are improving somewhat in that area. I honestly believe that the Browns OL is the best in the AFCN. And I don't think Hillis takes a back seat to any RB in the Division.

I like Hillis, but surely you guys know football well enough to know that the odds favor him having a very different, less successful season. Just as opposing defenses shut down Reuben Droughns his second year with us, so too will the weaponless Browns offense allow opposing defenses to jam the middle and shut him down.

 

So? You too are joining the naysayers that think Hillis can't repeat his performance from last year? What? Because he is white? Because he is big and strong and not diminutive a elusive? Hillis has proven that he is nimble enough. And plenty of big strong RBs have proven they can last a while and maintain their productivity. Jim Brown, Earl Campbell, Jerome Bettis, Mike Alstott (if you need a white guy).

Plus, hopefully, the Browns will have Montario Hardesty to come in and spell Hillis some.

 

The Browns remain limp, very limp at the positions who routinely touch the ball.

 

I think that is only true at WR. Not at TE, RB and QB. No one would ever call Hillis limp. I don't think McCoy is limp...in the sense that he is weak willed. He is not 6'6". He is inexperienced. He may have injury issues, but that is not limp. Our TEs were very productive. (yes, they needed to be given the lack of production by the WRs.)

 

With so many ifs and no real veteran guaranteed bastard-tough players, the Browns are likely going to struggle.

 

I think Colt will face a lot more pressure, I think Hillis will be shut down and our O will make a lot of stupid mistakes and be back to 2 yard dinks on 3d and 9. I think our defense will be on the field too much

 

I think the Browns win 4 maybe 5 games in 2011, but that's it.

 

NOw, if we ad a mid career DE, WR, RB and DB? Maybe a different story. This draft won't amount to a hill of beans as far as improving the team.

 

I think with a RB, Hillis now going into his 4th year, you would have to call him "mid career". Some of our DBs are "mid-career" Brown, Elam, Wright. I would rather have a young, good DB, like Ward and Haden, than a "mid-career below average DB like those 3.

[The Gipper]

In order of The Gipper's reply to HIS most astute analysis.

 

<Completely true, but there is no hard evidence to suggest that they won't be more successful.>

 

I may have used the wrong word, let's drop the evidence and replace it with the concept of probability. Given that this draft represents a pretty much standard, cookie cutter draft of the Browns, it IS logical to expect the same results. Meaning, instead of going after the high profile playmakers, we focus on diaminds in teh rough and linemen. Insanity is described as some as engaging in the same activities and expecting different results.

 

For a betting man, this odds are that this draft will not significantly impact the Nrowns W-L record, ever.

 

Well, as I see it, when the Browns have gone after the high profile playmakers, that has been a mixed bag if not a complete bust for them as well. Can you say Braylon Edwards, Brady Quinn, Kellen Winslow II? What would the Browns look like today if BQ and those other two were here doing what we thought they were supposed to do when we drafted them? We'd be where you (and I) would want them to be....rolling over AFCN defenses. But, obviously, they are not. Where the Browns have had success has been in the area of the linemen, like JT and Mack. So, we take DL and OL.

 

<Possibly true...IF you believe that Haden, Ward, McCoy etc. from last year's draft are going to all be busts. I say that there is evidence that they are building a winning foundation, but it is only evidence. It is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You apparently want to jump right to the verdict stage...and I say the Browns are just past their opening statement>

 

The Browns were 5 - 11 in 2009, they were 5 - 11 in 2010. All the positive spin you want me to accept resulted in a 2010 team that demonstrated no improvement over the previous season. Please forgive me if common sense and logic prevent me from peeing my pants with enthusiasm. Those players you mentioned? They delivered nothing that amounted to anything.

 

Though the record wasn't improved from one season from the other, I believe the performance was. I mean, in 2009 the Browns point differential was a negative 130 points. In 2010 it was a negative 61 points. That is a straw to grasp onto. It is a measure of improvement, I guess. And, hopefully, it bodes well for the future. These guys will have a year of experience under their belts.

 

<So, what you are saying Ghoolie is that we all have to be like you? We all have to be "glass half empty" sorts? Always expect negative results? I understand how a Browns fan can be that way, given the history of the last 20 years. But I prefer to not exercise corporal mortification forever and ever where the Browns are concerned. At some point our penance has to have been served.>

 

See, this is where I part company with the typical, and honestly, in my heart,what I see as very gullible fans.

I am not a negative fan. I am an honest, open minded fan. I am a fan not polluted with the nationalism-like pride of waving my flag. If I was to look at a tornado ravaged home and witness two kids trying to rebuild it with balsa wood and plastic tools, it would not be negative of me to comment that " regardless of their spirit and intentions, these individuals will not be successful. Nor would it be "positive for me to say...... oh wow, lookie those kids go, they're gonna make it better than ever.

 

Here is the issue. Championships are not won by Colt McCoy's and wasted Gerrard Warren-like draft picks. Big Ben to a Big WR on the last play of the SB. Aaron Rogers releasing pinpoint passes before any pass rush could get to him. We don't have that caliber of player, and our guys are not going to magically all of a sudden become that caliber of player.......... we don't even have that on the Horizon. This big WR? Yeah, he impresses me, but it ain't enough.

 

Well, first, we don't know about McCoy. For all we know he could become like another short, blond 3rd round draft choice QB whose name is the same as a state in the Northwest.

 

<Look at how the Ravens and Steelers built themselves.> Primarily through the draft I would surmise.>

 

You gave me two examples? Here's back at ya. Big Ben, Ray Lewis. First year, out of the gun.. BOOM.

We haven't gone after that caliber of player, instead we trade down OR waste picks on run of the mill, dime-a dozen linemen. If the Browns are ever going to be more than a 5-11 team, they have to, at some point, start acquiring 12 - 4 caliber talent.

 

Well, do you really fricking think that when the Browns have drafted in the past that they have said to themselves "we are going to take this 5-11 talent over some other 12-4 talent". Of course not. Obviously they think they are taking 12-4 talent when they draft Gerard Warren. As for Big Ben, to me, he is primarily a beneficiary of the Dick LeBeau defense the Steelers have. An orangutan could have QBed the Steelers his rookie year and won like they did. If he were put in the Browns situation he would have been Derek Anderson.

 

<Well, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't bringing in Holmgren and Heckert...proven football men, meant to infuse this franchise with that "football culture", whatever that means? >

 

How many times will you and other Browns fans bite at teh same bait? How many times will you bow down to Kings who no longer have the fire in their bellies? Policy, Clarke. Palmer, Dilfer, Roye,Sewage and now? A middle age executive who has already been there, done that. A man who is wealthy, fat and enjoying his position and ability to travel freely and schmooze with all his football buddies and media acquaintences.

 

You REALLY think that Holmgren is in any way, shape or manner focused and hungry to restore the Browns to greatness? Really? you believe that?

 

I believe the Browns media and fans are easily impressed with resumes of days gone by. It is why the media and local pundits favored Modell's choice of Super Bowl credentialed Bud Carson over little known iron jaw, Bill Cowher.

 

Actually, the choice was between Bill Belichick and Bill Cowher. In retrospect, had things not gone sour with Modell, the choice of Belichick would have turned out quite prudent.

Beyond that...WTF are YOU suggesting they do? It seems to me that you are doing an awful lot of Monday morning quarterbacking on these things.

 

THAT you see, is the difference between Steeler football culture and Browns football culture. Rooney has basic principles in both his personal and football life. It was those core values that lead him to hire an unknown and unproven. It was Cowher's personal qualities, NOT his resume that enabled him to become a future HOF head coach.

 

Now, I can hear the Harpies chirping now....... " well, who do YOU suggest Ghoolie, nyah, nyah, nyah, you don't even know". Of course I don't know, I don't own a team and I didn't interview candidates. BUT...... IF I DID..... I would hire someone with the core vales of life, AND football, that I believe in.

 

And I say that I think the Browns believe they have done just what you suggest.

But who is to say how it turns out. Bill Belichick was a big loser here in Cleveland....in multiple ways. He couldn't win on the field (4 out of 5 years with a losing record), and he couldn't lose off the field. He alienated the fans and media of this town, and maybe even alienated his own owner. But when he went to NE, he sure found what it is you are looking for, apparently.

 

*I believe football is a young man's game. Holmgren is an Oatmeal Box advertizement waiting to happen. If, in his own words, "the game passed me by" relative to being a coach? Then it passed him by in the front office as well.

 

OK, who knows. You think you do, but I am not so sure. But the guy picking the talent, Tom Heckert is only what? 42 years old? That would put him in the prime of his career.

* I believe that unless an owner is sickened by the thought of losing, he will never build a winner. Modell won because he had passion and love for the Browns. Lerner has none of that, and his record is shameful. What he and his Father have done to Cleveland football is shamefull. He has fans, rooting for mediocrity.

Fair criticism of Lerner....but, there are all kinds of models of success for an owner. I for one, prefer that he be a non-meddling owner. Guys like Modell, who are passionate and who think they know what they are doing but don't, can be worse than a guy that is less dispassionate but at least has the sense to get the hell out of the way and just write the checks.

* I believe, as does Rooney, as did Lombardi, that the team is built around a QB. Colt McCoy's don't beat Roethlisbergers. Not now, not ever.

 

Again, I am not prepared to overrate BR the way you are, nor to simply write off McCoy at this point. Every Browns QB since BK has had to be written off. Lets not do it to McCoy prematurely just because his 10 predecessors haven't been up to par.

 

If you believe the FO is something to be excited about, then we just won't see eye to eye. But hey, I hope I am wrong.

 

<I think we are improving somewhat in that area. I honestly believe that the Browns OL is the best in the AFCN.>

 

And in saying that, you make my point for me. An OL, while important, can be built with just about any of the many lard asses who play these fat-ass positions. Admittedly, our OL is good, and YET.......... our offense is shit.

Why do you think that is?

 

Clearly because we have not had the right system in place to match the talent, or because our skill positions have not been up to par. Delhomme was a complete disappointment. Wallace wasn't much better if at all, and McCoy was a rookie that played in all of 5 games...and we had no WR corps to speak of.

 

<And I don't think Hillis takes a back seat to any RB in the Division.>

 

Oh, sure he does, sure he does. Chris Johnson, Adrian Petersen, Ray Rice, Cedric Benson, Rashard Mendenhall, Steve Jackson, the list goes on. There are 10 - 15 backs I would take ahead of him.

 

I said in the "Division". I wasn't talking league wide. You mentioned Rice and Mendenhall and Benson who are in the division. Hillis was every bit or more productive than any of them in terms of yards gained, TDs made etc. Those guys may have had more offense around them than Hillis, but he produced better than any of them.

 

<<So? You too are joining the naysayers that think Hillis can't repeat his performance from last year? What? Because he is white? Because he is big and strong and not diminutive a elusive?>>

 

No, because he is a human being. Look, football games turn on how predictable a team is. In 2010, nobody knew Hillis, Since most teams only played us once, HIllis wasn't accounted for. 2011?

 

Fair enough, but just because a team knows what is coming doesn't mean they can stop him. Everyone knew the Packers were going to give the ball to Jim Taylor on the sweep. That didn't mean they could stop him. Same here if the OL and Hillis do their job.

 

Don't you remember thsi same BS over tired, worn out Reuben Droughs? I LOVED THE GUY....... but i know after having a great year, defenses would adjust, and with no other offensive weapons, his goose was cooked, And it was, Hillis will have a hard, difficult year.

 

I see a lot more in Hillis than I saw in Droughns. And Droughns didn't have the quality OL in front of him that Hillis has.

<<Hillis has proven that he is nimble enough.>>

 

To do what? Beat the Steelers? Get us into the playoffs? Turn us into a ball control offense? I mean, you yourself said we have the best OL in our division. WHy couldn't hIllis help us control the ball? Hmmmmm?

Great OL.... GREAT RB............. I thought that's what it took?

 

Whatever success the Browns had offensively was because Hillis and the OL did help the Browns control the ball. The Browns just had nothing much else going for them except some decent numbers by Ben Watson.

 

<<And plenty of big strong RBs have proven they can last a while and maintain their productivity. Jim Brown,>>

 

Don't EVER, and I mean EVER compare a plough horse to a race horse. Jim Brown could cut, sweep and turn it up field. He took it yard over and over and over. Hillis couldn't clean the dandruff out of Jim Brown's koufi hat.

 

OK, sure. The only comparison I was trying to make was that a big strong RB, and JB certainly was that, among other things, isn't necessarily going to knocked out of the game with injuries. JB never missed a game in his career despite the punishment he took as a runner. It isn't automatic that Hillis will begin missing games because of injuries eithers....as other have suggested is inevitable.

 

<Earl Campbell, Jerome Bettis,>>

 

Both superior to Hillis. BOTH also complimented by teams with a REAL QB, effective tandem RBs and WRs who could make opposing defenses guess. Hillis is a tough kid, but agian, without weapons he is going to be keyed on and pounded. Just watch and learn from NostraThomas.

 

Perhaps they were superior, but you did state the key: the surrounding cast is also all important to the success of a RB, and an offense.

<Mike Alstott (if you need a white guy).>

 

WTF is it with you and this white guy bullshit? Hillis IS Reuben Droughs. The same shit that happened to Droughns in year two is likely going to happen to Hillis in 2011. Now, if magically our O starts passing downfield and HIllis gets some help from the other RBs and the WR we drafted? Maybe he has a chance. I don't see it, I could be wrong. It isn't often that I am wrong, but it happens now and again.

 

I don't think anything is inevitable, like I said. You seem to believe that it is inevitable that Hillis will turn out like Droughns. It isn't any more inevitable that he will turn out like Droughns than it is that he will turn out like Earl Campbell And we all agree Hillis needs helps offensively.

 

<<Plus, hopefully, the Browns will have Montario Hardesty to come in and spell Hillis some.>>

 

This is where you don't understand football. Hillis is a utility back. He doens't have the skills needed to be the mainstay. He will get used up. Over the years, from Jim Brown and before, part of Browns culture was a shifty, fast, powerful RB......... Brown, Kelly, Mitchell, Calvin Hill, Bo Scott, Greg Pruit, Byner and Mack, even short lived Bo Cornell.

 

Hillis is okay, he's another Czonka.

 

OK, well Csonka made the Pro Football HOF. I will take it every day of the week if Hillis makes the PFHOF. And I disagree that he doesn't have the skills to be a mainstay. He WAS THE mainstay of the Browns last year. Almost 1200 yards rushing, almost 500 yards receiving on 61 catches. To me, Hillis was a combination of Byner and Mack. Sure, he is not shifty like Greg Pruitt or Eric Metcalf, but he more shifty/nimble than either Mike Pruitt or Kevin Mack, and he is almost as strong an powerful as those two are..

[OSU Kid]

The lockout is really going to hurt and put the new staff behind the 8 ball at the start of the season, so Playoffs maybe quite a stretch this year.

[calfoxwc]

I swear - I think Ghoolis is Rich's "other brother Darryl"...

 

or a clone... or the same person... LOL

 

Stop living in the past, already.

 

1. Reuben ? I never once heard raves about Reuben. That's a very Feeble comparison. I even capitalized "feeble"....

Baloney.

And, I see the Browns pick of the Stanford lb/fb, as being a guy who can fill the exact same role here and there, taking some of the load off of Hillis.

 

2. I'm amazed that Ri... I mean, Ghoolie, thinks that we should have drafted playmakers. We had Braylon Edwards. He was a stud. It's tough to get the ball to him,

when you could hardly run the ball, and your RT was a turnstile. And when you DID make it work, he stupidly dropped the ball when it got there with brick hands and a brain to match...

With a healthy Pashos, and the nice later pick of the LT/RT... that's fixed.

 

The Browns had Winslow. He was another thoroughbred playmaker. big deal. You can't run the ball, and you can't protect on the right side...

you can only throw short passes... it makes it way too easy on the defenses.

 

3. I can't believe how some certain "Negative Nellies" can say that the Browns FO is still full of incompetents who don't care, and the picks they made

were terrible, and the Browns will still take years, and the sun won't shine again, forever, after 4 o'clock today... give it up, already.

 

4. Big stupid rapist Ben throwing the long ball to the wr downfield.... KG, do you EVER watch offensive line play? Did you go back and see the olinemen

the squeelers (your fave team) have drafted? The same for the ratbirds.

 

IF YOU CAN NOT CONTROL THE LOS, you lose on both offense and defense. Look at Cincy. They sure have had playmakers. Still ended up WHERE in the division?

 

5. I figure Negative Nellies will only stop being negative whiners about every single thing... when the Browns go to the superbowl. THEN, it will be

 

"HA. SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE BROWNS DO WHAT I SAY THE LAST FOUR YEARS?", all the while ignoring everybody else's pointing out the obvious -

that what they "wanted" never happened in the previous four years.

 

6. Baloney. Especially about the putdown of Holmgren as not really caring about the Browns... come on. Holmgren is an extremely competitive,

very smart, class coach and GM.

 

7. Jim Brown, blah blah blah. He was great, yes. But even HE gave all the credit in the world, to his offensive line, for his success. If you want to live in the past,

go back and look at the holes JB had to run through. Why gloat about JB, but never gloat about Gene Hickerson? Sorry, that's just plain dumb.

 

8. Any hard runner who has to carry so much of the load, of course they get hammered enough that it takes it's toll. With more qb and rushing protection on the right side

of the oline, you can expand the use of your own playbook. It wasn't Hillis that was predictable - it was the playcalling -sometimes out of stupidity, and sometimes

because they couldn't run to the right or roll out to the right, or pass protect on the right, because of St. Claire. He's gone, for good reason. If Pashos gets hurt again...

the Browns KNEW they had to have a legit understudy.

 

9. I can't believe that anybody can say something like "The Browns need a first round WR, so Little is going to be a #3 because he wasn't drafted in the first round" LOL

sorry.

 

I couldn't help but laugh. Obviously, KG, you think that Tom Brady was picked in the first round....

 

10. I guess it must be sad to criticize every freakin thing until the cows come home, or the Browns do get to the superbowl. People like that will never know how much

fun the ride was.

Well, okay, frustrating too... but I don't see frustrating in the Browns' play last year, as a team. Go watch a replay of their games. Like the Jets-Browns game last year.

 

These Browns are inspired to play kick ass football. That was missing before, with players who didn't give a crap, like Bigfoot DA, Edwards, Quinn, etc....

 

The biggest reason to be upbeat about the Browns, is their style of play - their intensity. The Browns kept drafting flash, but the character/work ethic/love for the game wasn't there.

 

The Browns practically WILLED themselves to wins last year, despite some major weaknesses on defense and offense. The Browns did a great job of drafting talent, and finding

gems after the first round, that will also make a big difference.

 

And, the biggest difference is, the new coaches, new system, and new attitude by the same. All the right moves, means the Browns will be an even more exciting team to

watch next year.

 

And finally, "being strictly objective about the Browns" means "I get excited when I root for a team that is winning now, no matter who it is"

[The Gipper]

Comparison of stats of the AFCN Running backs:

 

Mendenhall

324 carries

1273 yards

3.9 ypc

79.6 ypg

23 receptions

167 yards/rec

13 TDs

 

Benson

321 carries

1111 yards

3.5 ypc

69.4 ypg

28 receptions

178 yards/rec

8 TDs

 

Rice

307 carries

1220 yards

4.0 ypc

76.3 ypg

63 receptions

556 yard rec.

7 TDs

 

Hillis

270 carries

1177 yards

4.4 ypc

73.6 ypg

61 receptions

477 yards rec.

13 TDs

 

Nope. Like I said, Hillis needn't take a back seat to any other RB in the division.

[beefjerky]

Comparison of stats of the AFCN Running backs:

 

Mendenhall

324 carries

1273 yards

3.9 ypc

79.6 ypg

23 receptions

167 yards/rec

13 TDs

 

Benson

321 carries

1111 yards

3.5 ypc

69.4 ypg

28 receptions

178 yards/rec

8 TDs

 

Rice

307 carries

1220 yards

4.0 ypc

76.3 ypg

63 receptions

556 yard rec.

7 TDs

 

Hillis

270 carries

1177 yards

4.4 ypc

73.6 ypg

61 receptions

477 yards rec.

13 TDs

 

Nope. Like I said, Hillis needn't take a back seat to any other RB in the division.

 

^^^^^^

 

Roasted. His numbers should be even better this year if the offense is more balanced.

[The Gipper]

^^^^^^

 

Roasted. His numbers should be even better this year if the offense is more balanced.

 

 

Well, here is another note about these stats: The AFC North is the only division of the NFL in which every team in the division had a 1000 yard runner with Hillis, Rice, Benson, and Mendenhall.

The only other division to even have 3 teams with 1000 yard runners was the AFC South with Houston, TN, and Jax.

[calfoxwc]

The AFC North is the only division of the NFL in which every team in the division had a 1000 yard runner with Hillis, Rice, Benson, and Mendenhall. GIP

********************

Which, btw, makes me really cringe at criticism of the 1st round draft pick by the Browns - Taylor will FIX that, along with Rubin, in a very huge way, no pun intended...

[The Gipper]

The AFC North is the only division of the NFL in which every team in the division had a 1000 yard runner with Hillis, Rice, Benson, and Mendenhall. GIP

********************

Which, btw, makes me really cringe at criticism of the 1st round draft pick by the Browns - Taylor will FIX that, along with Rubin, in a very huge way, no pun intended...

 

 

Well, here's to hoping that you are right:

 

[nickers]

I hate to burst your bubble Ghoolie but Hillis is a better pass cather and a better break the tackles RB in My opinion and Im not trying to slam Mack I love him...But Hillis has way more upside.

[The Gipper]

Regarding high draft picks........

 

Braylon Edwards is better than any of our Wrs.

 

Quinn? Quinn? He wasn't a first rounf pick. Oh yeah, Idiot Phil Savage stepped up and got him, but NOBODY in their right mind wanted that piece of crap.

 

Here's teh deal, of course high draft pick QBs, WRs and RBs are a huge risk. THat's because hte PAYOUT is CHAMPIONSHIPS.

 

Linemen don't EVER dramatically impace a team. OUr LT is proof positive of that. TOTAL WASTE of a high pick.

 

Look, again, study football culture. When kids first sign up to play pee-pee football, if they can't run fast, catch, throw, hit, move. they get sent to the OL. It is the collection bin for the talentless. The DL? A little more important for sure, but again, not tough to find great ones in the lower rounds.

 

Proof? SIMPLE. 8 - 10 line men on 32 team, most teams go through at least 1.5 sets of them EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Translation? On average over 500 linemen play in the NFL. Conversely, you have 12 QBs, maybe 75 Wrs.

 

Again, the oL and DL are indeed important............. BUT, the low level talent needed to play these positions demands that they be taken in later rounds.

 

Now, for 11 years the Browns have gone against this fact of football and you see the results. 5 - 11.

 

<<OK, well Csonka made the Pro Football HOF.>>

 

Because he had a HOF QB, WR and other runners to keep people from keying on him.

 

<<I will take it every day of the week if Hillis makes the PFHOF.>>

 

Now were are talking UFO's BigFoot, Chupacabra and a bunch of other fantasy nonsense. Hillis isn't going to be a HOF er. He doens't have those kinds of skills.

 

<And I disagree that he doesn't have the skills to be a mainstay. He WAS THE mainstay of the Browns last year. Almost 1200 yards rushing,>

 

For a 16 game season that translates to a whopping almost 75 yards rushing a game. In Brown;s day, when it was MUCH HARDER to run the football, 75 yards per game was a C+ grade runner. HIllis is better than a C+, but he isn't going to take anyone to the NFL championships.

 

<almost 500 yards receiving on 61 catches.>

 

Yes, because we don't throw downfield. Again, "all this offensive production" resulted in us winning how many games?

 

<To me, Hillis was a combination of Byner and Mack.>

C mon, HIllis couldn't carry Mack's cock strap. Jeez, dude.

 

 

<Sure, he is not shifty like Greg Pruitt or Eric Metcalf, but he more shifty/nimble than either Mike Pruitt or Kevin Mack, and he is almost as strong an powerful as those two are.>

 

Nah, he's a good back. I like him. As a #2? Yes, but he isn't on par with Earl Campbell, Bettis or some of the other bangers.

 

We just agree to disagree. The one thing Hillis didn't help provide is ball controll for the offense. THAT is the tell tale sign of how effective he is.

 

Let's start with the fact that last year was Hillis's first year as a starting RB. It is entirely plausible that he will end up having a better career than Mack or Pruitt. He might even get better. The fact is he was the mainstay of the Browns offense last year, the primary runner, a primary receiver. If the Browns actually do open up the offense more, if the likes of McCoy and Little and the other WRs play up to par, it may open things up for Hillis to perform even better. Right now, the entire opponents defenses will be keying on Hillis for sure. But if things open up, they won't be able to do that.

Let's agree on this much Ghoulie: to be a championship contender a team needs balance. They need a good OL, a good running game, a good QB, and a good passing game, and a strong defense. The Browns are not going to become a championship contender until they get all that.

What we can say, I believe, is that the Browns running game is the only component right now that might measure up to championship caliber. Hillis' performance, running and catching, to me is reminiscent of the play of Roger Craig. The 49ers won quite a few SBs with him as their primary running back. If the Browns had the other components that the 49ers had, Hillis could be their Roger Craig.

[The Gipper]

I hate to burst your bubble Ghoolie but Hillis is a better pass cather and a better break the tackles RB in My opinion and Im not trying to slam Mack I love him...But Hillis has way more upside.

 

Hillis is not the pure plowhorse that Mack was. Hillis actually has some shake and bake that Mack did not have.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxjzOgMrk-c

[calfoxwc]

Every one of the current Browns' wr's, including Little, have:

 

Way better hands than Braylon Edwards...

 

Cares more about the team than Braylon Edwards,

 

has a far better work ethic than Braylon Edwards,

 

is smarter and more disciplined than Braylon Edwards...

 

is tougher mentally and physically than Braylon Edwards,

 

just to set the record straight....

[pizzadeliveryguy]

Every one of the current Browns' wr's, including Little, have:

 

Way better hands than Braylon Edwards...

 

Cares more about the team than Braylon Edwards,

 

has a far better work ethic than Braylon Edwards,

 

is smarter and more disciplined than Braylon Edwards...

 

is tougher mentally and physically than Braylon Edwards,

 

just to set the record straight....

I hate Edwards as much as the next guy but he is much better than anything we have at WR.

[calfoxwc]

Note that I DID leave out "speed" and "size".... he has that going for him.

 

I'm glad he's gone, regardless. He was a doofus !

[calfoxwc]

Sorry, KG, but I beg to differ.

 

We will all see the difference Taylor will make. Last year, when opposing offenses had third and short, and Rogers had to take a breather,

teams could get a first down right up the middle often. Go back and look at the Jets game, for instance, - they recently replayed it on the NFL channel.

And, those offenses just kept throwing against Wright. Note, that when they threw against Ward and Haden, the passes I saw were knocked down, etc.

The trouble you are having - is understanding that the supporting cast enables the super flashy players to be able to excel.

 

Remember - when the dirty, ugly stupid stinkin ratbirds drafted the big hulk NT out of Oregon after trading up with the BROWNS? It solidified their defensive line hugely.

 

Same thing with Taylor, and HE IS a 4-3 guy, it's what he played in college. Talor is Rogers as a rookie. I wouldn't knock it.

 

If you think you could have gotten a Taylor after the first round, well, show me who. I say there most certainly was none. The Browns were very lucky to have found Rubin

where they did.

 

All sorts of folks want the flashy bigtime qb. There are plenty of examples of how flashy, bigtime qb's have come into the league, and gotten beaten up.

Rapistburger fell into a situation where they had a LOT of competitive, if not excellent, talent around him. They plugged in Rapistburger, and away they went.

The Browns are building a TEAM, not a ragtag motley crew of expensive, blue chippie flashy diva talents who either get in motorcycle accidents or are locker room cancers

or have rock hands or who simple couldn't care less about working as part of a team.

 

The Bengals did things your way, KG, and they still suck. They had huge salary bigtime Ouchi Stinko, AND TO AND.... still didn't work.

The Browns made moves to dominate the los in the midde of the defensive line, which will open things up for the DE's. They got a DE that

I believe was a mid to late first round kind of talent (DE) in a deep list of prominent DE's this past year. The more I watch Greg Little on the field, the more I have to

laugh - I believe he will turn out to be a brilliant steal.

 

It's about talent, smarts and TEAM. The Browns have all too often in the past, drafted flash. But they couldn't run the ball, couldn't protect the qb...couldn't stop the run,

and couldn't stop the pass. Yeah, but they sure had a bigtime flashy TE and WR and that "mad dog in a meat house" lb...

 

The past two drafts are a very smart, refreshing change - the Browns are building a TEAM. And next year with TWO FIRST ROUNDS (come on, you have to love that)...

the qb's in the draft next year can't help but be a higher class of qb's - the Browns will be sitting pretty. They could get a bigtime qb AND a bigtime lb...

 

You get all the pieces in place, THEN you put the flashy blue chippie qb in place. I'll never forget how Archie Manning and a few others got the hell knocked out of them,

Tim Couch style.

 

You can't control the los, you don't win. That's it. Flash all you want, but football games are able to be won - iAT the los, because only THEN can the flashy blue chippie

players do their cool stuff.

[CleBrowns2010]

I highly doubt this year. A 10-6 record won't get it done in the NFL today and that's a big if we even get a 10-6 record which I also doubt. We can't win the division unlike the Seahawks.

[choco]

lol...stop toiling with the boy who claims he knows football. its obvious when his excuse for his opinions is that no one else knows anything....its pretty xxxxing sad actually. but more funny....

 

so thats all you can come up with ghoolie....your great rationale is that we dont know anything about football? dont look in the mirror then kid....you might not like what you see....

 

lmao....wow.

[wvdawg]

Just heard that Mel Kiper thinks we'll be in the playoffs as well.. Take that for what it's worth.. which isn't much

[Thomaspro]

lol...stop toiling with the boy who claims he knows football. its obvious when his excuse for his opinions is that no one else knows anything....its pretty xxxxing sad actually. but more funny....

 

so thats all you can come up with ghoolie....your great rationale is that we dont know anything about football? dont look in the mirror then kid....you might not like what you see....

 

lmao....wow.

 

Thats all he does on the other threads as well. He is here to troll and put down anything Cleveland. Sad pathetic troll.