Your Opinion?

[htownbrown]

I'm not trying to get anything started like Mangini vs Shurmur. Just curious, knowing the lockout is longer than expected by some, if people think we might have been better off for this season based on the familiarity of the last seasons system? Or do you think the new system is going to catch quick enough that we'll be alright? What are your expectations?

 

I am starting to feel like year 2 might end up being more like year 1 for Shurmur. It seems like a bad spot to be put in for someone trying to make a first impression to BROWNS fans. Let's just admit there's not much patience.

 

Should/could we have gotten Shurmur next offseason? Would it have worked out better for him in the long haul?

 

Its all hypothetical folks. Wouldn't even of asked if we had football right now.

[jrb12711]

I'm going to dodge the "which coach should be there question" and focus more on the new system and what the lockout means for the browns. Sadly, I think we all have to realize it's going to be a long year for us IF there's a season this year. It's a shame because I think with a full year of working with the coaches and OTA's etc. this team might have just turned the corner. Don't get me wrong, I hope everything I just typed is wrong but we have to realistic. I think too many fans underestimate the value of the offseason work with coaches and the overall chemistry building it brings. I understand Colt is leading workouts with his team, but sadly it's just not the same. I just hope if the season does go bad we don't jump on Shurmer. He got put in a really tough spot here.

[miktoxic]

i for one think we never should have changed coaches and systems. ok i get it that holmgren is running the team but when does he stop being a guru and start being an al davis? mangini cleaned out the locker room, brought in tough quality players and if not for a dysfunctional illequipped offense would have probably kept his job.

 

don't want to start the old argument with fans who can't stand not 'winning now' and would trade away a paul warfield (quality)for a t.o. (cancer) cuz they could get to the lombardi trophy a little quicker, BUT i guess i will.

 

i really hope that we can all cheer for a winning browns team this year (pleez god!!!) and through spit and vinegar will admit to my wrongs when it comes to holmgren if this staff can pull off a winner within two years. BUT if not i'll call all you fxxkin holmgren fans on it while he's headed out to pasture to wrangle wranglers next to his old cow hand brett 'wonder boy look-at-my-junk' favre.

[jnuh]

OTA's are important IMO, but training camp is more important. If we have a normal training camp I still think we can "turn the corner" to me turning the corner this year is 7-9/8-8 and being in most if not all the losses (and atleast splitting in the division)

 

With that being said I think we have some things going for us.

 

I think we are going to be led onto the field on offense by a very hungry QB who I could potentially see overachieving this year and really opening people's eyes. Most people in the media aren't putting to much stock into this kid and he knows that. All he has done in his career though has been win (except last year obviously, but he did play well and way better then anyone expected)

 

I also think the scheduale is in our favor this year especially the first 4 games. Obviously Indy is going to be a tough game week 2 ... but the other 3 of our first 4 games are winnable. If we can open the season with a win against Cincy it could go a long way. Especially if momentum carries us over Indy or worst case scenario we lose but hang around against them. Weeks 3 and 4 are Miami who we beat last year, and the Titans who we could also beat. 3-1 to start the season would be great for confidence in the locker room and I believe that could go a long way for us this season. I also think it is great we play Balt/Pitt so late in the year ... I like our chances beating if we are high on life because we have won a bunch of games already then facing them early on and we are TRYING to hit our stride.

 

Offensively I think we are going to adjust quickly. Do I have any reason to believe that? not really. I just have a gut feeling and it mostly because I think Colt is a very smart kid and a very quick learner and he is going to be the catalyst of this all working out.

 

Defensively .... That is where I see the problem. We have to really make a nice splash in free agency and get guys that "fit" our system. Right now as the roster stands we have 2 problems. We don't have much talent and we don't know the system. It might be to much for this team to have any sort of real success on the defensive side of the ball. We have some nice building blocks in Haden, Ward, and Fujita ... We also have some intriging unknowns like Jayme Mitchell, the 2 rookies, and how Dqwell Jackson, Rubin, and Benard adjust to the 4-3. If Jackson could stay healthy I could see big things from him in the 4-3 especially if Taylor and Rubin play well in the middle of the D-Line. Ultimately though I think the stars really would need to allign for this D to play really well.

[ballpeen]

In some ways I think we might come out ahead....as long as real camp isn't missed.

 

I think this will put us in to more walk through type practices rather then hitting practices.

 

 

Back in the day, camp was used to get players in shape after driving cabs or selling beer all winter and spring long.

 

 

If players in those times were only 50% in shape heading in to camp, todays players are 85% in shape heading in to camp.

 

No doubt you need to be in football shape...I just don't think it takes as long....so we might end up fresher and crisper throughout the season.

[slowburn]

My expectations are huge re the Brown's this season but the reality of the strike and it's efffect on unit cohesiveness and the tall task of implementing a new o and d leaves

 

me with a bad feeling in my stomach. If and when camp starts the players and coaches are going to be so far behind the power curve that anything above the players

 

learning what their coachs expect and a fundamental grasping of the new o and d schemes seems remote. The bonds not developed in off season practice sessions and not getting

 

some real time experience on the field with the new coaches sure won't speed up the velocity of this train.

 

OTH, every other team will be going through similar growing pains so wtf over.

[The Gipper]

The consensus opinion is that any team going into this year with a new coach/system/QB is going to be behind the 8 ball because of the lockout. I can understand that opinion, but it is just a generalization. Though, I think the lockout will be less of a factor the sooner they get going.

 

The real factor for the Browns is simply the fact that they are again starting over with a complete new system both offensively and defensively. If they didn't miss a day of practices they would have had a "growing period" to implement their new offense and defense.

 

This brings up a question in my mind which I am going to try to put in a new trivia thread. Stay tuned.

[nickers]

Im staying out of this argument...Every time I express an opinion of or about Mangini I get toasted for it. I thought I lived in America...LOL. Im just gonna say "It is what it is'....Let the chips fall where they may...We have to live with what happens...The deeper in we go without an agreement points to haviong no season.

[jrb12711]

I do certainly hope I'm wrong with what I said, but I really think you guys are wildly underestimating what OTA's and minicamps mean to a young team. All those things create a bond that's required for a team to grow. The veteran groups don't really need that type of thing, but we do. It may not seem like a big deal, but switching to a new coach with a new offensive scheme, a whole new defensive scheme AND a whole bunch of starters are rookies or have less than 3 years experience. I'm trying to look at the glass half full, but you can't just overlook all of that guys. Let's hope those informal workouts we've been having are working wonders.

[Thaak]

i for one think we never should have changed coaches and systems. ok i get it that holmgren is running the team but when does he stop being a guru and start being an al davis? mangini cleaned out the locker room, brought in tough quality players and if not for a dysfunctional illequipped offense would have probably kept his job.

 

don't want to start the old argument with fans who can't stand not 'winning now' and would trade away a paul warfield (quality)for a t.o. (cancer) cuz they could get to the lombardi trophy a little quicker, BUT i guess i will.

 

i really hope that we can all cheer for a winning browns team this year (pleez god!!!) and through spit and vinegar will admit to my wrongs when it comes to holmgren if this staff can pull off a winner within two years. BUT if not i'll call all you fxxkin holmgren fans on it while he's headed out to pasture to wrangle wranglers next to his old cow hand brett 'wonder boy look-at-my-junk' favre.

 

I agree with this sentiment.

 

But now that Shurmur is here, he has my full support. Just will suck if we suck because the owners and players all suck.

[miktoxic]

Just will suck if we suck because the owners and players all suck.

hilarious!! good use of the word suck. yeah shurmur has got my support too. i just hope this new front office will stop this merry-go-round of coaching changes we've seen over the past 10+ years. just want to see the browns win a super bowl before i croak.

[The Gipper]

hilarious!! good use of the word suck. yeah shurmur has got my support too. i just hope this new front office will stop this merry-go-round of coaching changes we've seen over the past 10+ years. just want to see the browns win a super bowl before i croak.

 

Too late:

 

[miktoxic]

Too late:

 

 

 

i finally got it. croak. what a knee-slapper!

[WRREBEL]

Geez, if we kept mangini we would have went 5 and 11. Also if we kept mangina it would have hurt any progress or evalutaion of our qbs and wrs.

 

 

I like the pat shurmur I think we can win 8 games or better depending on colt mccoy.

 

Give the fuhrer sometime

[Gips]

I will stick with my guns and i am glad that shurmur is the new coach but given the circumstances surrounding the browns and the league its going to be a rougher start than it had to be, but if there is football this year i still believe at some point in the season we will see good things happen and will still fare better overall than we would have under mangini..

[dawgpound3]

Offense will be better this year, but the defense will take two steps backwards imo. Im not worried about Shurmur and the effects of the lockout. We'll be OKAY...

[hoorta]

Shurmur, Mangini?

 

A difference? Good F%@#ing grief. Hey, I know, let's compare a Dyson Vacum Cleaner against a Shark?

 

Of course it isn't going to make a flipping difference. We just used a freaking 1st round pick to draft Gerrard Warren............... AGAIN...........

 

How the F_ _ K are the Browns going to win football games without a stellar QB, WRs, RB, DBs, LBs or DEs?

 

Yeah, yeah, I know, you love Peyton Hillis. When everyone puts 8 in the box and stuffs him, leaving us to a Kosar-like 3 yard pass on 3'd and 9, don't go around scratching your backside in bewilderment.

 

The Browns are very, very low on talent at the skilled positions. This has never translated into wins in the NFL and it isn't going to start now.

 

You have a 5 win team being run by a vacant, passionless owner, who handed off to a fat, one-foot-in-the-grave football exec who has no more fire in his belly for football than does Lerner.

 

Shit runs downhill. Lerner is shit, his Father was shit and begat shit. Randy gave us shit Phil Sewage (Coffe Fetcher for Ozzie) and Shit Romeo (coffee fetcher for Belichik).

 

Once again, Lerner tricks dummie Browns fans by hiring a "HE WAS SOMEONE ONCE" guy, so that they will again be pacified while waiting for Holmgren to produce.

 

Guess what? Holmgren ain'g gonna produce. He is going to sit on his fat ass until he gets a nice fat check for his "great contributions to the Browns.

 

5 - 11. That's the upside.

 

I'll agree the Browns need talent at the skill positions- but once you get past qb, it doesn't matter much. The Ravens won a Super Bowl with a s**t offense, and a great defense. Here's the list of the top 100 players in the NFL- as voted on by the players.

 

NFL top 100

 

BTW, the list is about evenly divided between offense and defense. And plenty of fat defensive guys on the list, and about as many corners as WRs. The Browns have two guys in the top 100- Cribbs and Joe Thomas- and I'd debate that Joe is better than Jake Long.

 

As to skill positions, the last Super Bowl contestants- the Packers and the Steelers have a total of 5 players in the top 25- and four of them play defense. So there.

 

5-11 may be realistic Tom- new coach, new system- and no time to integrate either because of the lockout.

[jnuh]

Shurmur, Mangini?

 

A difference? Good F%@#ing grief. Hey, I know, let's compare a Dyson Vacum Cleaner against a Shark?

 

Of course it isn't going to make a flipping diffeence. We just used a freaking 1st round pick to draft Gerrard Warren............... AGAIN...........

 

How the F_ _ K are the Browns going to win football games without a stellar QB, WRs, RB, DBs, LBs or DEs?

 

Yeah, yeah, I know, you love Peyton Hillis. WHen everyone puts 8 in the box and stuffs him, leaving us to a Kosar-like 3 yard pass on 3'd and 9, don't go around scratching your backside in bewilderment.

 

The Browns are very, very low on talent at the skilled positions. This has never translated into wins in the NFL and it isn't going to start now.

 

You have a 5 win team being run by a vacant, passionless owner, who handed off to a fat, one-foot-in-the-grave football exec who has no more fire in his belly for football than does Lerner.

 

Shit runs downhill. Lerner is shit, his Father was shit and begat shit. Randy gave us shit Phil Sewage (Coffe Fetcher for Ozzie) and Shit Romeo (coffee fetcher for Belichik).

 

Once again, Lerner tricks dummie Browns fans by hiring a "HE WAS SOMEONE ONCE" guy, so that they will again be pacified while waiting for Holmgren to produce.

 

Guess what? Holmgren ain'g gonna produce. He is going to sit on his fat ass until he gets a nice fat check for his "great contributions to the Browns.

 

5 - 11. That's the upside.

 

I think you are under estimating our draft, and our skill position.

 

We could potentially have a good QB in McCoy, and a very good WR in Greg Little. At running back we have Hillis so I don't understand why you would include RB on your list. DB wise we have 2 future stars in Haden and Ward. LB we Fujita who played very well last year. I am also sure we will make some moves in free agency ... and I would be suprised if a DE and another WR weren't a high priority.

 

And don't forget about Watson who is a pretty good TE and we have some nice young potential behind him to make plays.

 

I also think that Robiskie (although I am not a huge fan of his) has a chance to do better as a WCO WR because the system matches his skill set a little bit better then what we were doing.

 

Do I think this is all going to translate into a 12-4 playoff team??? of course not. I do think we will be better then 5-11 as long as the lockout is settled soon and not in september.

[Gafreleets]

Shurmur, Mangini?

 

A difference? Good F%@#ing grief. Hey, I know, let's compare a Dyson Vacum Cleaner against a Shark?

 

Of course it isn't going to make a flipping diffeence. We just used a freaking 1st round pick to draft Gerrard Warren............... AGAIN...........

 

How the F_ _ K are the Browns going to win football games without a stellar QB, WRs, RB, DBs, LBs or DEs?

 

Yeah, yeah, I know, you love Peyton Hillis. WHen everyone puts 8 in the box and stuffs him, leaving us to a Kosar-like 3 yard pass on 3'd and 9, don't go around scratching your backside in bewilderment.

 

The Browns are very, very low on talent at the skilled positions. This has never translated into wins in the NFL and it isn't going to start now.

 

You have a 5 win team being run by a vacant, passionless owner, who handed off to a fat, one-foot-in-the-grave football exec who has no more fire in his belly for football than does Lerner.

 

Shit runs downhill. Lerner is shit, his Father was shit and begat shit. Randy gave us shit Phil Sewage (Coffe Fetcher for Ozzie) and Shit Romeo (coffee fetcher for Belichik).

 

Once again, Lerner tricks dummie Browns fans by hiring a "HE WAS SOMEONE ONCE" guy, so that they will again be pacified while waiting for Holmgren to produce.

 

Guess what? Holmgren ain'g gonna produce. He is going to sit on his fat ass until he gets a nice fat check for his "great contributions to the Browns.

 

5 - 11. That's the upside.

 

 

 

gotta say that that is without a doubt one of my top 10 browns fan's rants of all time.

 

 

simply superb.

 

 

realistically i think the browns are screwed this year only because of the lockout and the change of schemes. plenty of players/coaches have already said that it's gonna be a detriment to their team and those were teams that were pretty established before the lockout. to think it's not gonna cause a lot of problems for the browns is just wishful thinking at it's worst.

 

 

the good news is that the browns seem to be making steady improvement and would be a contender in any other division next year (if everything stays on track, and developes at either same or better than last year) for division champs and will definately have a much improved team/record for the 2012 year.

 

 

this year? sorry, but it's gonna be another year of top 10 draft selections.