Car Bomb Explodes In Oslo Govt Building

[VaporTrail]

It's a confirmed terrorist attack, early reports are saying al Qaeda is suspected behind the attack. Also, a gunman opened fire at a youth camp elsewhere in the country.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14252515

 

 

This may be a response to the Norwegian's increased presence in Libya and Afghanistan.

 

Newest news says that it is due to right-winger. Eighty are said to be killed by the gunman. Seven by the blast.

[calfoxwc]

It is what the terrorists do anywhere there is opposition to their violent freakin cult.

 

To not oppose them would be worse. Terrorist violence is a satanic cancer on the world stage.

[calfoxwc]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017709/MASSACRE-AT-KIDS-CAMP-More-30-dead-terrorist-opens-Norwegian-summer-camp-car-bomb-devastates-Oslo.html

 

MASSACRE AT KIDS' CAMP: More than 30 feared dead as terrorist opens fire at Norwegian summer camp and car bomb devastates Oslo

1.30pm: Massive car bomb explosion kills at least seven in Oslo

 

3.30pm: Between 25 and 30 feared dead as man disguised as police officer opens fire on island youth meeting Norwegian prime minister was due to attend

Police confirm eight or nine dead on island after preliminary search

 

Eyewitnesses say bodies floating in the sea around the island

 

Norwegian man arrested on the island was 6ft tall and had blonde hair - he was shot and wounded before being detained

He arrived on island on boat owned by Norwegian Labour Party

 

Police fear explosives may have been laid at camp

 

Unknown group called 'Helpers of the Global Jihad' said to have posted message saying this is reaction to publication of Muhammed cartoons

Islands residents told not to reveal their location on Twitter or Facebook

British Foreign Minister William Hague condemns 'horrific' attack

Oslo Mayor: 'Wish I were on island to be shot instead of children'

Police believe the two attacks may be linked

Obama offers U.S. help with investigation and says it's a 'reminder that entire international community has stake in preventing this kind of terror'

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017709/MASSACRE-AT-KIDS-CAMP-More-30-dead-terrorist-opens-Norwegian-summer-camp-car-bomb-devastates-Oslo.html#ixzz1Ss4cG0eT

 

 

[VaporTrail]

In a quite ironic twist, it turns out that the gunman was a right-wing, Christian fundamentalist.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14262956

 

 

I've never seen faith move a mountain, but once again, it's taken down a building, and ended over 90 young lives.

[Westside Steve]

Which particular right wing Christian group did the gunman represent?

WSS

[calfoxwc]

That isn't faith, Vaporized. It's a mentally ill individual.

 

They have those in atheists, and any religion you can name.

 

We even have one as president. But go ahead, and slur all Christians and conservatives

 

based on one crazy criminial. We all can pull that childish prank, but we don't.

 

You just aren't old enough to understand much.

 

But I don't see where it says the nut was a Christian rightwinger anything.

 

You must be taking your cues from Harry Reid's newsletter.

[VaporTrail]

Then you didn't read my link. The American media is downplaying his Christian fundamentalism. Check BBC, CNN international, ap, or al jazeera.

 

Fundamentalism is a cancer, and this is what it leads to.

 

And you're so quick to blame Islam for things you don't like, but when a terrorist has the same religion as you, you give him a pass and attribute it only to mental illness.

[calfoxwc]

You are a fundamentalist liberal atheist. You want to share any plans to be violent? Or, like most all of us, you're okay too?

 

Oh, wait, you support gay marriage. That right there is dangerous.

[VaporTrail]

No, I'm not. I don't want religions eradicated, I just don't think they should impose their stone age morals on others. Quite a big difference. This guy was an islamophobe.

[calfoxwc]

Another planet, says I. In another galaxy far far away.

[VaporTrail]

Right. I base my morals off of logic and evidence of inequalities, you base yours off a book that was written thousands of years ago. You think gay marriage makes me dangerous, yet if it happened the amount of people harmed would be a big fat zero.

[calfoxwc]

See my latest post about gay marriage supporters threatening violence, numbnutz.

 

The left is always about violent revolution if they can't get it any other way.

 

And that is why we must keep our privately owned guns. so there.

[hoorta]

Right. I base my morals off of logic and evidence of inequalities, you base yours off a book that was written thousands of years ago. You think gay marriage makes me dangerous, yet if it happened the amount of people harmed would be a big fat zero.

 

So "new" logic is inherently better? "Inequalities" is relativistic. Better join PETA and get on the animal rights bandwagon- those pigs and cows are getting treated horribly.

[VaporTrail]

So "new" logic is inherently better? "Inequalities" is relativistic. Better join PETA and get on the animal rights bandwagon- those pigs and cows are getting treated horribly.

 

"New" logic is inherently better because it's looking at the world in a relativistic sense. Whereas, with the Bible, you have absolute wrongs and rights (which I argue don't exist), you are bound to what's written in the pages, and when society changes (which it does) you have to bend and break your interpretations of the Bible to have them make sense with the real world. The inherent problem with that is obvious; this issue leads to people who refuse to try and understand evolution, churches who accept gays, churches who don't accept gays, people who think that if god is on their side, who can be against them, etc.

 

The problem with it is that people believe that this book has a claim on an ultimate, absolute truth. And then you get other people, with other books that claim that they have the one true meaning of life. And whatever this "truth" happens to be, it is always restricted by the words that were written in the book. You have people who take the Bible literally, people who take only the New Testament literally, people who just pick and choose a few things throughout the book to be true. And these words need not be based in truth or reality, but in a fantastic fairy tale that was told thousands of years ago, or a few hundred if you're Mormon, or a few decades if you're a scientologist.

 

The flaw with your arguments is that you often fall back on, "God said it," "God has been around for so long, so why change tradition/institution," and the like. Well, we're not a theocracy, so our laws should reflect the Constitution, not the Bible. And as it stands, their are quite a few laws that are biblically inspired that I, and many others feel are unconstitutional. Atheists in America face as much prejudice as Muslims in America do, and I seek to change that.

 

[Pumpkin Eater]

Vapor, there's nothing wrong with being an atheist. But you really need to stop bashing all of Christianity. Yep, you have issue with certain people who claim to be Christians and their behavior. Charles Dickens said it best:

 

"There are some upon this earth of ours,' returned the Spirit, 'who lay claim to know us, and who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill-will, hatred, envy, bigotry, and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us and all our kith and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their doings on themselves, not us."

 

Seriously, I see no one on here bashing the basis of your atheism. But you continue to bash to good book and an entire people of a religion based on the actions of a few. Take issue with those who blasphemise and break the very commandments they are supposed to follow. There's no need to bash Christianity its self.

 

By the way, the Bible is not a fairy tale, much of it has been proved to have happened, with more of it being proven everyday. It's no more of a fairy tale than other accounts of history, like Ceasar's Gallic war.

 

Here, let me use your logic:

 

Atheism: For those who want to screw their mom (and daughters)(Frued was an atheist)

[VaporTrail]

Seriously, I see no one on here bashing the basis of your atheism.

 

False. There have been multiple times where multiple people have called my atheism a product of youthful rebellion, ignorance, and naivete. I'm offended by it, as it's discounting years of struggling, soul-searching, and research.

 

But you continue to bash to good book and an entire people of a religion based on the actions of a few. Take issue with those who blasphemise and break the very commandments they are supposed to follow. There's no need to bash Christianity its self.

 

Perhaps you're right, but I do have issues with Christianity itself, too. And as a former Catholic, I especially have issues with the Catholic Church, as I think that this specific church (plus most others), as a whole, is doing more harm in the world than good.

 

By the way, the Bible is not a fairy tale, much of it has been proved to have happened, with more of it being proven everyday. It's no more of a fairy tale than other accounts of history, like Ceasar's Gallic war.

 

Be careful what you're getting into, here. If you'd like, you could start up a topic on the historicity of the Bible, and I'd be happy to talk at length about it. A thorough study of the Bible, especially of the NT, is what sparked my atheism, btw.

 

Here, let me use your logic:

 

Atheism: For those who want to screw their mom (and daughters)(Frued was an atheist)

 

No, that's logic of the Abrahamic religions. See the story of Lot and his daughters

 

Genesis: 19:30-38

 

30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”

 

33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

 

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

 

36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab[a]; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites[c] of today.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Jesus would consider Catholicism an abomination. That's not how he wanted the church to be ran. What you need to do is take a look at the real actual Christian values, not the Catholic church's or any other religious zealot's agenda. Things like "Love thy neighbor" and "judge not, lest ye be judged" come to mind.

 

Also, it's important to remember that a lot of the bible is telling a story and not necessarily giving orders or telling Christians or Jews how to live their lives.

 

Remember that organized religion is man's doing and nothing man does is perfect. Man is imperfect.

 

 

As a side note, I watched a documentary about the war of 1812. The day after the Brits burned Washington a hurricane struck causing a tornado to strike the British troops. Whether this was an act of god or not, it had to raise the question in the Brit soldiers' minds. A few weeks later they unsuccessfully tried to take Baltimore. It was the turning point of the war.

[VaporTrail]

Jesus would consider Catholicism an abomination.

 

I concur, that is, if he actually did exist.

 

That's not how he wanted the church to be ran. What you need to do is take a look at the real actual Christian values, not the Catholic church's or any other religious zealot's agenda. Things like "Love thy neighbor" and "judge not, lest ye be judged" come to mind.

 

How are we to define "real actual Christian values?" That's a problem that I've not been able to reconcile with my studies of the Bible. Only the rich were able to write back then, and only the influential were rich. There were a ton of politics that went into translations of stories that made it into the Bible, then there were political battles over which stories would remain canon and which would not.

 

Also, it's important to remember that a lot of the bible is telling a story and not necessarily giving orders or telling Christians or Jews how to live their lives.

 

Well what about the rest of it? What about the parts that you think are crap? Leviticus, if I may. T, diehard, and cal swear by a few verses in that book, but they ignore the other parts about shellfish, wearing mixed clothing, etc. It's absolutely asinine of them to accuse me of supporting an "abomination" (their words, not mine) in one topic, then in the next topic, they say that the Old Testament doesn't matter. The entire system is flawed because anything can be justified or rationalized by saying, the Bible says x, therefore it's god's word and if you don't listen you're wrong/going to hell. Not to mention that it causes otherwise rational people to believe in magic. May I ask if you believe Jesus really came back from the dead? That his mother was a virgin?

 

Remember that organized religion is man's doing and nothing man does is perfect. Man is imperfect.

 

Define perfection.

 

As a side note, I watched a documentary about the war of 1812. The day after the Brits burned Washington a hurricane struck causing a tornado to strike the British troops. Whether this was an act of god or not, it had to raise the question in the Brit soldiers' minds. A few weeks later they unsuccessfully tried to take Baltimore. It was the turning point of the war.

 

A situation that could be attributed to the stochastic chance of the weather. If they did not understand what hurricanes were, and I'm sure none of them did, unexplained things get attributed to the supernatural. Religion is a way of explaining what you do not understand whilst remaining ignorant.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Yes, Jesus did actually exist. You are questioning his actual existence? This is a first for me. While some may question that he was who he said he was, nearly everyone I've ever heard of acknowledge the man existed. Pontius Pilate was the Roman Governor who presided over his crucifixion. The evidence that the new testament is a reliable historical document is starting to become overwhelming.

 

Besides that, there's evidence of his existence in Roman and Hebrew writings.

 

"How are we to define 'real actual Christian values?"

 

The simplest definition of real Christian Values would be the Ten Commandments. But there's more to it then that. Look into history. Just study some of the things that early Christians did... set up orphanages, hospitals, help for the poor, universities, etc..

 

Well what about the rest of it? What about the parts that you think are crap?

 

None of it is crap. The books are used for guidance. Some of the guidance no longer applies. There were reasons for the guidance that applied to the greater well being of society at the time; some of it doesn't apply today.

 

The entire system is flawed because anything can be justified or rationalized by saying, the Bible says x, therefore it's god's word and if you don't listen you're wrong/going to hell

 

Actually all you have to do to avoid hell and get into heaven is believe and repent. Everyone sins.

 

May I ask if you believe Jesus really came back from the dead? That his mother was a virgin?

 

Is that really so much harder to believe than the theory that the universe was a whole lot of nothingness and didn't even exist until a great explosion occurred?

 

Define perfection.

 

It doesn't exist outside of the material world.

 

Religion is a way of explaining what you do not understand whilst remaining ignorant.

 

Science is the way of explaining human interactions and understanding of the intricate workings of God's creation.

[calfoxwc]

I never once quoted Leviticus. Ever.

 

I don't use the Bible as a lever to get others to do what I think they should do. And I never said the Old Testament didn't matter.

 

But all of the laws that are impossible to follow, are superceded by Jesus dying on the cross for us.

 

And, perhaps you missed it, but I have, more than once, repeated my old saying. I said it first in a Bible study one time,

 

much to the spitting up of coffee and laughter, and serious consideration:

 

"Religion is one of the worst things that ever happened to Christianity".

 

The Bible makes serious sense, well, a lot of it - if you learn it from the original Hebrew and Greek.

 

Bible verses out of context can be used to say anything you wish it to say, all too often. That isn't my style.

 

So, once again, Vaporized, that's a false accusation.

[Kosar_For_President]

I don't use the Bible as a lever to get others to do what I think they should do.

 

Really?

 

"Religion is a way of explaining what you do not understand whilst remaining ignorant."

 

Now THAT is the definition of ignorant.

[calfoxwc]

You are ignorant. I said I don't quote Bible verses to prod others to behave the way I want them to.

 

That is what the subject was, the false accusation about me quoting Leviticus. I don't know what's in Leviticus,

 

but either find some incident where I forgot I did but did, or kindly explain your last quote.

 

Some people are so cranky, they seem to lose the subject at hand on purpose, methinks.@@

[VaporTrail]

This is getting quite a bit off-topic, I'm going to respond to your posts on the historicity of Jesus in a separate thread. I will address one of your points, though.

 

Actually all you have to do to avoid hell and get into heaven is believe and repent. Everyone sins.

 

Then Aryan psycho, among other serial killers are going to be in heaven. Here's a relevant quotation from page 1344 of his 1500 page manifesto. I think it's a fascinating look into a killer's psyche.

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/60739170/2083-a-European-Declaration-of-Independence

 

I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person as that would be a lie. I’ve always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment. In the past, I remember I used to think;

 

“Religion is a crutch for weak people. What is the point in believing in a higher power if you have confidence in yourself!? Pathetic.”

 

Perhaps this is true for many cases. Religion is a crutch for many weak people and many embrace religion for self serving reasons as a source for drawing mental strength (to feed their weak emotional state f example during illness, death, poverty etc.). Since I am not a hypocrite, I’ll say directly that this is my agenda as well. However, I have not yet felt the need to ask God for strength, yet… But I’m pretty sure I will pray to God as I’m rushing through my city, guns blazing, with 100 armed system protectors pursuing me with the intention to stop and/or kill. I know there is a 80%+ chance I am going to die during the operation as I have no intention to surrender to them until I have completed all three primary objectives AND the bonus mission. When I initiate (providing I haven’t been apprehended before then), there is a 70% chance that I will complete the first objective, 40% for the second, 20% for the third and less than 5% chance that I will be able to complete the bonus mission. It is likely that I will pray to God for strength at one point during that operation, as I think most people in that situation would….If praying will act as an additional mental boost/soothing it is the pragmatical thing to do. I guess I will find out… If there is a God I will be allowed to enter heaven as all other martyrs for the Church in the past.

 

So yes, I may be somewhat misguided in attacking him for his religious beliefs, but it's xxxxing disgusting that he thinks he will be in paradise. This dude isn't any different than the guys who rammed a plane into the trade center.

[Mr. T]

It appears that your headline on the post is incorrect......

 

 

Terrorist proclaimed himself 'Darwinian,' not 'Christian'

 

Source

 

Nice try. But your terrorist is a evolutionist. snap'

[Kosar_For_President]

You are ignorant. I said I don't quote Bible verses to prod others to behave the way I want them to.

 

That is what the subject was, the false accusation about me quoting Leviticus. I don't know what's in Leviticus,

 

but either find some incident where I forgot I did but did, or kindly explain your last quote.

 

Some people are so cranky, they seem to lose the subject at hand on purpose, methinks.@@

 

Jesus can suck it.

[VaporTrail]

It appears that your headline on the post is incorrect......

 

 

Terrorist proclaimed himself 'Darwinian,' not 'Christian'

 

Source

 

Nice try. But your terrorist is a evolutionist. snap'

 

They're not mutually exclusive. snap'

[Mr. T]

They're not mutually exclusive. snap'

 

 

Well it appears that you are trying to say that christians are as dangerous as muslim extremist.

 

Everyone on here knows that you are agnostic and only believe in science. As you attempt to ridicule those who believe in God.

 

Would you say that your thoughts on evolution and politics parrallel those of Breivik? He is a evolutionist!

[VaporTrail]

Christian extremism is just as bad as Islamic extremism is just as bad as secular extremism. Extremism or monoculturalism of any kind is dangerous. Moderate religion promotes ignorance.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Catholic is the true Christian Religion. Jesus said to Peter " you are the rock on which I will build my church". Catholicism is the true christian religion. All others are nothing more then copies to suit the will of whomever doesn't agree with the church. Sorry to all you non believers, but that is the truth.

[VaporTrail]

No true Scotsman.

 

Case in point.

 

Anyways..

 

-How are Roman Catholics any more legitimate than Eastern Orthodox?

 

-And diehard, just so you know, those other religions had very legitimate reasons for leaving the Catholic faith. One of the most well-known cases of the Catholic Church's corruption was the sale of indulgences, which were basically passes that said you were going to heaven.

 

-Papal infallibility is a joke, yet people still believe it. Condoms == AIDS. Benedict is such an ass.