black label Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm not a Browns fan, but I follow Ohio teams b/c one of my good bros played for Bowling Green and is crazy for anything Ohio (except for Toledo and Cincy, apparently). Anyhow, you look at what the niners are doing this year, and you look at what the Brown are trying to do, and I think you have reason for optimism as a Browns fan. It all looks very familiar as a niners fan. I see a lot of similarities in what Holmgren is trying to do with that roster out there in Cleveland. The Browns are going to be good. 1) Run the ball and stop the run. Hillis is a feature back. He needs to get healthy, and the contract issue is very obviously a distraction, but both of those things are immediately resolvable. You have one of the best LTs in the game, and the rest of the online looked decent on the road against possibly the best front 7 in the league in SF. Better RB depth is needed behind Hillis. But the major take away here is short yardage rushing defense. A hard-fought goal line stand in the first half, and couple 3-and-outs in the second half can be attributed directly to an excellent rush D. The niners ran a lot of short yardage plays with SEVEN linemen on the field, and no team in the last several weeks has done as well as the Browns in stuffing that slam formation. 2) Protect the ball on offense and cause turnovers on D. The niners are at or near the top of the league with a double-digit turnover differential going into yesterday's game. Colt was lucky to only give up 2 turnovers yesterday. He put the ball on the ground 4 times, and at least half of those were unforced. Needs to improve. 3) Win the battle for field position with outstanding special teams. When you're built around the D and a ball-control offense, the importance of STs and field position cannot be overstated. Brad Seeley the the STs/Asst. Head Coach for the niners this year. It's too bad for the Browns that he couldn't be retained. Still, it seems like the Browns have strong STs. No reason that can't continue. 4) WCO is a great system for disguising a physically-limited QB. Colt is not playing good football this year, so as a fan you might not believe me, but I'm telling you, he can be a very effective WCO QB. It's a timing-based system that is intended to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers and put them in the position to make plays. This requires perfect reads, decisions, timing, and accuracy--not a big arm. And it also requires playmakers at the skill positions, which to me is the glaring deficiency on the Browns' roster at the moment. I think the WCO plays into his strengths as a developing QB. While I don't expect anyone to wait around for 6 seasons like we did to see decent QB play, Colt has the benefit of growing up in a single system. 5) Effective gameplan and coaching adjustments. This was probably the 9ers' worst offensive effort of the season, especially in the second half. Either SF's offense really fell off in the second half, or they got shut down by a determined defense and effective adjustments--my guess is the latter. Anyhow, take it for what it's worth, just my 2 cents. I don't see it all coming together this season, not with your current roster, but this isn't a complicated formula. It's exactly what the niners are doing right this season, and it looks very familiar to me when I look at what the Browns are trying to do moving forward and what Holmgren is building toward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tampadawgs Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I love when other fans come here and give there 2 cents.. I really like your thoughts, problem you did not see is that Hardesty is a good back, just got hurt early... some people on this board a joe, they want to fire everyone. Rome was not built in a day, neither was the niners, Packers, Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Saints... Wow just think if we were saints fans after the lose to the Rams..Some would want to Cut Drew, cut Payton(Coach), cut Sproales, Fire everyone.... Just thin if we were Pats fans...Fire everyone...Fire Bill!!!!! Brady sucks!!!! I think if we were Packer fans some would still want to trade Rodgers because we missed Jenning on a go route back in week 2 of last yr!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Rome may not have been built in a day but it crumbled in one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 yeah no shit. lines are drawn for the majority of fans. either you're an asshole for wanting someone fired or you're an asshole because you look complacent with losing. too many years of bad teams to just go..."oh well". IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tampadawgs Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Goolie I am trying to figure out if your a Browns fan or not. I understand this shit sucks. I agree about your whole O-line crap and agree with you about Colt, but shit everything you say is sign this free agent sign that free agent...It does not work that way. They have to want to come to Cleveland without breaking the bank on them. Remember its there choice if they come here or not. I have posted alot on what our FO is doing and how long it takes, it will be o, but hte fact is we are 2-3 yrs away, and if we blow up the whole thing like we have every 2 yrs, then we will move further back. WE have to keep everybody in place...Time is all we have, so enjoy the 3 and outs and the under thrown ball from Colt, because it will all end sooner than later.. Look on the bright side, when Colt does throw a nice 15 yrd out you will be amazed and tal about that 1 throw for weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black label Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Ask Dan Snyder how well blindly adding high-priced, high-profile FAs works out when you don't have an effective scheme in place. Conversely, Holmgren has a plan; although, I understand as a fan what it's like to be cynical about that when the team continues to struggle on the field. Anyhow, I've seen Hardesty play. He's a very decent runner, but his biggest shortcoming the the WCO is that he has rocks where his hands should be. 1k/1k RBs faulk/watters/craig RBs are what you're looking for. Holmgren and Harbaugh are both from the Walsh coaching tree. I know the Browns don't have the history the 9ers have in the WCO, but so long as Holmgren is there, expect the roster to start resembling what is effective in that scheme. You have a QB who isn't going to be able to run a corell or martz-type system...but Colt can be effective in the WCO. Right now, however, you don't have anything very respectable at the skill positions. Like I said, it won't happen this season, but you are strong in the trenches and I think you have a good staff and front office. They'll get there under Holmgren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Ask Dan Snyder how well blindly adding high-priced, high-profile FAs works out when you don't have an effective scheme in place. Conversely, Holmgren has a plan; although, I understand as a fan what it's like to be cynical about that when the team continues to struggle on the field. Anyhow, I've seen Hardesty play. He's a very decent runner, but his biggest shortcoming the the WCO is that he has rocks where his hands should be. 1k/1k RBs faulk/watters/craig RBs are what you're looking for. Holmgren and Harbaugh are both from the Walsh coaching tree. I know the Browns don't have the history the 9ers have in the WCO, but so long as Holmgren is there, expect the roster to start resembling what is effective in that scheme. You have a QB who isn't going to be able to run a corell or martz-type system...but Colt can be effective in the WCO. Right now, however, you don't have anything very respectable at the skill positions. Like I said, it won't happen this season, but you are strong in the trenches and I think you have a good staff and front office. They'll get there under Holmgren. Paul Brown basically invented the WCO in the 50's...Walsh added more medium range passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyalty Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 It would be nice to feel like the Browns are going to get better, but with their choices for Coaches and QBs... I am convinced they are simply inept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black label Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Paul Brown basically invented the WCO in the 50's...Walsh added more medium range passing. If that's the case, add it to the list of similarites. I will say, the Browns have a better secondary than the niners. But the niners compensate by having a much better pass rush. BTW, Mike Adams used to be niner. IDK how he's been for you guys, but he wasn't very good in SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timpiker Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Thanks for trying to be positive...........but as a 45 year fan, most of your optimism is falling on my deaf ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 The browns will offensively start improving soon, with the high caliber of most of the teams left on our schedule the browns are going to get beat up but it will be a crash course for learning to deal with some of the better teams and schemes in the league for both players and coaches.. And looking toward the big picture that is not a bad thing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 when will they be good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg4Life Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I'm not a Browns fan, but I follow Ohio teams b/c one of my good bros played for Bowling Green and is crazy for anything Ohio (except for Toledo and Cincy, apparently). Anyhow, you look at what the niners are doing this year, and you look at what the Brown are trying to do, and I think you have reason for optimism as a Browns fan. It all looks very familiar as a niners fan. I see a lot of similarities in what Holmgren is trying to do with that roster out there in Cleveland. The Browns are going to be good. 1) Run the ball and stop the run. Hillis is a feature back. He needs to get healthy, and the contract issue is very obviously a distraction, but both of those things are immediately resolvable. You have one of the best LTs in the game, and the rest of the online looked decent on the road against possibly the best front 7 in the league in SF. Better RB depth is needed behind Hillis. But the major take away here is short yardage rushing defense. A hard-fought goal line stand in the first half, and couple 3-and-outs in the second half can be attributed directly to an excellent rush D. The niners ran a lot of short yardage plays with SEVEN linemen on the field, and no team in the last several weeks has done as well as the Browns in stuffing that slam formation. 2) Protect the ball on offense and cause turnovers on D. The niners are at or near the top of the league with a double-digit turnover differential going into yesterday's game. Colt was lucky to only give up 2 turnovers yesterday. He put the ball on the ground 4 times, and at least half of those were unforced. Needs to improve. 3) Win the battle for field position with outstanding special teams. When you're built around the D and a ball-control offense, the importance of STs and field position cannot be overstated. Brad Seeley the the STs/Asst. Head Coach for the niners this year. It's too bad for the Browns that he couldn't be retained. Still, it seems like the Browns have strong STs. No reason that can't continue. 4) WCO is a great system for disguising a physically-limited QB. Colt is not playing good football this year, so as a fan you might not believe me, but I'm telling you, he can be a very effective WCO QB. It's a timing-based system that is intended to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers and put them in the position to make plays. This requires perfect reads, decisions, timing, and accuracy--not a big arm. And it also requires playmakers at the skill positions, which to me is the glaring deficiency on the Browns' roster at the moment. I think the WCO plays into his strengths as a developing QB. While I don't expect anyone to wait around for 6 seasons like we did to see decent QB play, Colt has the benefit of growing up in a single system. 5) Effective gameplan and coaching adjustments. This was probably the 9ers' worst offensive effort of the season, especially in the second half. Either SF's offense really fell off in the second half, or they got shut down by a determined defense and effective adjustments--my guess is the latter. Anyhow, take it for what it's worth, just my 2 cents. I don't see it all coming together this season, not with your current roster, but this isn't a complicated formula. It's exactly what the niners are doing right this season, and it looks very familiar to me when I look at what the Browns are trying to do moving forward and what Holmgren is building toward. I think you said this all pretty well. The D is playing well but not really creating turnovers and oppurtunities for our offense. And yes, running and stopping the run have clearly made the best teams in the AFC North for quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I'm not a Browns fan, but I follow Ohio teams b/c one of my good bros played for Bowling Green and is crazy for anything Ohio (except for Toledo and Cincy, apparently). Anyhow, you look at what the niners are doing this year, and you look at what the Brown are trying to do, and I think you have reason for optimism as a Browns fan. It all looks very familiar as a niners fan. I see a lot of similarities in what Holmgren is trying to do with that roster out there in Cleveland. The Browns are going to be good. 1) Run the ball and stop the run. Hillis is a feature back. He needs to get healthy, and the contract issue is very obviously a distraction, but both of those things are immediately resolvable. You have one of the best LTs in the game, and the rest of the online looked decent on the road against possibly the best front 7 in the league in SF. Better RB depth is needed behind Hillis. But the major take away here is short yardage rushing defense. A hard-fought goal line stand in the first half, and couple 3-and-outs in the second half can be attributed directly to an excellent rush D. The niners ran a lot of short yardage plays with SEVEN linemen on the field, and no team in the last several weeks has done as well as the Browns in stuffing that slam formation. 2) Protect the ball on offense and cause turnovers on D. The niners are at or near the top of the league with a double-digit turnover differential going into yesterday's game. Colt was lucky to only give up 2 turnovers yesterday. He put the ball on the ground 4 times, and at least half of those were unforced. Needs to improve. 3) Win the battle for field position with outstanding special teams. When you're built around the D and a ball-control offense, the importance of STs and field position cannot be overstated. Brad Seeley the the STs/Asst. Head Coach for the niners this year. It's too bad for the Browns that he couldn't be retained. Still, it seems like the Browns have strong STs. No reason that can't continue. 4) WCO is a great system for disguising a physically-limited QB. Colt is not playing good football this year, so as a fan you might not believe me, but I'm telling you, he can be a very effective WCO QB. It's a timing-based system that is intended to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers and put them in the position to make plays. This requires perfect reads, decisions, timing, and accuracy--not a big arm. And it also requires playmakers at the skill positions, which to me is the glaring deficiency on the Browns' roster at the moment. I think the WCO plays into his strengths as a developing QB. While I don't expect anyone to wait around for 6 seasons like we did to see decent QB play, Colt has the benefit of growing up in a single system. 5) Effective gameplan and coaching adjustments. This was probably the 9ers' worst offensive effort of the season, especially in the second half. Either SF's offense really fell off in the second half, or they got shut down by a determined defense and effective adjustments--my guess is the latter. Anyhow, take it for what it's worth, just my 2 cents. I don't see it all coming together this season, not with your current roster, but this isn't a complicated formula. It's exactly what the niners are doing right this season, and it looks very familiar to me when I look at what the Browns are trying to do moving forward and what Holmgren is building toward. You OBVIOUSLY DO NOT KNOW THE SKILL SET OF FEATURE BACK......................Hillis is not a feature back..................I quit reading after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black label Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 You OBVIOUSLY DO NOT KNOW THE SKILL SET OF FEATURE BACK......................Hillis is not a feature back..................I quit reading after that I know he's highly productive when healthy. I know you don't exactly have a glut of skill players and Hillis is probably the last dude on the team you should be worried about. IMO, he'd be a fantastic WCO FB like Rathman was if you guys are confident enough to start Hardesty at RB. And no, it wouldn't be a waste--FBs can be highly productive in the WCO when they're the sort of athlete Hillis is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I know he's highly productive when healthy. I know you don't exactly have a glut of skill players and Hillis is probably the last dude on the team you should be worried about. IMO, he'd be a fantastic WCO FB like Rathman was if you guys are confident enough to start Hardesty at RB. And no, it wouldn't be a waste--FBs can be highly productive in the WCO when they're the sort of athlete Hillis is. Gotta agree on this one. I said in a post a while ago that Hillis is more of a Rathman type back. The X factor is that Hardesty would have to be the Roger Craig of the system. Until he get healthy and stays healthy we'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black label Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Thanks for trying to be positive...........but as a 45 year fan, most of your optimism is falling on my deaf ears. I don't think I'm stretching it too much. Look at the niners' 0-6 to 6-1 turnaround in the course of a single season. To me, it's a question of whether Holmgren gets the personnel and staff in place to run the system effectively. You already have a very decent defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black label Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Gotta agree on this one. I said in a post a while ago that Hillis is more of a Rathman type back. The X factor is that Hardesty would have to be the Roger Craig of the system. Until he get healthy and stays healthy we'll never know. Hardesty has gotta be able to run great routes out of the backfield and catch the ball. that's coachable to an extent. durability isn't. the good news: RBs aren't as tough to land in the draft as some other positions. Gore was drafted in the 3rd round, Hunter in the 4th (Gore had an injury history at the U, and Hunter is 5'7" but you get my point). Both are pretty dang good backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Hardesty has gotta be able to run great routes out of the backfield and catch the ball. that's coachable to an extent. durability isn't. the good news: RBs aren't as tough to land in the draft as some other positions. Gore was drafted in the 3rd round, Hunter in the 4th (Gore had an injury history at the U, and Hunter is 5'7" but you get my point). Both are pretty dang good backs. Well said. It'll look good if we can plug that Roger Craig back in there. That and get Hillis back on the field ready to come to work. Might even be able to pull it off with Cribbs like TypicalBrowns and I talked about in the other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black label Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 what do you guys think of your LBs? you have a good line and some great DBs, but I don't recognize most of your LBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 what do you guys think of your LBs? you have a good line and some great DBs, but I don't recognize most of your LBs. zombo is the ultimate browns' optimist. DQ is really good. the rest suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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