WebsterSlaughter Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm not here to absolve the O-line of responsibility. But Colt McCoy has been sacked 20 times this year versus 23 times last year. He has started 8 games this year and 8 games last year. He has also been sacked LESS this year despite having MORE pass attempts. Colt McCoy Stats So lack of protection is not likely the main cause of our offensive problems this year. Considering that are wide receivers are the same as last year, the lack of production is most likely due to one or more of the following: 1. Colt McCoy himself. 2. Pat Shurmur and terrible play calling. 3. Lack of run game (injuries to RBs and E. Stienbach) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 How about all of the above? I did notice on the rewind, given time McCoy is usually pretty accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Our whole team is poop.. I say we move them to la... I thought not havning a team was painful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 meh some numbers can be misleading. You need to look at how much time he has had to trow the ball this season compared to last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackbrownie2 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 meh some numbers can be misleading. You need to look at how much time he has had to trow the ball this season compared to last. Exactly. Teams are blitzing the Browns a lot more this year than last year. Our offense is so predictable that defenses can afford to all out blitz and not get burned. All they have to defend is the short pass and runs up the middle. We really need to see the stats on how many times Colt has been "hurried" this year compared to last. And watch the replay of every TD pass McCoy has thrown this year (or even any play over 20+ yards). McCoy is either throwing out of the shotgun, or rolling out to his right. Why can't Shurmur understand that? I realize most of McCoy's picks have come from him rolling to his right too, but we are just so content with having McCoy start under center and watching him get hit as soon as he drops back.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm not here to absolve the O-line of responsibility. But Colt McCoy has been sacked 20 times this year versus 23 times last year. He has started 8 games this year and 8 games last year. He has also been sacked LESS this year despite having MORE pass attempts. Colt McCoy Stats So lack of protection is not likely the main cause of our offensive problems this year. Considering that are wide receivers are the same as last year, the lack of production is most likely due to one or more of the following: 1. Colt McCoy himself. 2. Pat Shurmur and terrible play calling. 3. Lack of run game (injuries to RBs and E. Stienbach) I'm not yet ready to indict Colt or Shurmur, so I'll go with #3..We need a playmaker at RB for opponents to fear & the ONLY one on this roster with a chance of being that is Cribbs (possibly Smith given his speed). Until we field a legitimate threat at RB, who can burn a defense at any time, teams are going to tee off on Colt & we will continue not really knowing WHAT play was called as there is no way for it to develop. Last year we had Hillis to help keep defenses honest...this year, literally nothing. The draft should be interesting in 2012. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 yep. running a rigid WCO system is dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 ^agreed. colts under constant duress...our young guards are getting their asses handed to them. colt is quite elusive; if jake was funning this offense, it might set a record in the NFL for most sacks ever given up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 I'm not yet ready to indict Colt or Shurmur, so I'll go with #3..We need a playmaker at RB for opponents to fear & the ONLY one on this roster with a chance of being that is Cribbs (possibly Smith given his speed). Until we field a legitimate threat at RB, who can burn a defense at any time, teams are going to tee off on Colt & we will continue not really knowing WHAT play was called as there is no way for it to develop. Last year we had Hillis to help keep defenses honest...this year, literally nothing. The draft should be interesting in 2012. Mike even adrian peterson couldn't run on this team. the defenses we face are just stacking the box knowing that we have no threat in the passing game. this is where i'll differ with some thinking that our OL needs real help either thru the draft or FA. i actually think it's probably the most important part of the offense. without blocking/pass protection the best QBs and RBs couldn't function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 even adrian peterson couldn't run on this team. the defenses we face are just stacking the box knowing that we have no threat in the passing game. this is where i'll differ with some thinking that our OL needs real help either thru the draft or FA. i actually think it's probably the most important part of the offense. without blocking/pass protection the best QBs and RBs couldn't function. Mik ******************************************** EXACTLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 How about all of the above? I did notice on the rewind, given time McCoy is usually pretty accurate. Larry, this team has huge offensive issues, all about no playmakers, not about the dime a dozen oline, but most blame the qb, so we will move o stupid again, until mgt understands the ol is a dime a dozen, and starts providing playmakers no oline will be performing well. Skilled stars make blocking easy, slugs at skill positions make blocking impossible and it is indeed as simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 even adrian peterson couldn't run on this team. the defenses we face are just stacking the box knowing that we have no threat in the passing game. this is where i'll differ with some thinking that our OL needs real help either thru the draft or FA. i actually think it's probably the most important part of the offense. without blocking/pass protection the best QBs and RBs couldn't function. Mik ******************************************** EXACTLY. I made it clear last year we had no offensive weapons and Hilis was a half season fluke. I emphasized the lack of field stretchers and playmakers at the receiving position, further I made it clear we needed to get either Green or Jones whichever was standing when picked. Instead we stupidly traded down instead of taking Jones and took another fat slob lineman. It seems no matter whom is running this team we keep making the same dumb mistakes. BTW, Peterson would be as effective on this team as he is at Minnesota because they have zippo offensively even less than us, except for that stud, whom we also passed on for a lineman to get us nowhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackbrownie2 Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 I made it clear last year we had no offensive weapons and Hilis was a half season fluke. I emphasized the lack of field stretchers and playmakers at the receiving position, further I made it clear we needed to get either Green or Jones whichever was standing when picked. Instead we stupidly traded down instead of taking Jones and took another fat slob lineman. It seems no matter whom is running this team we keep making the same dumb mistakes. BTW, Peterson would be as effective on this team as he is at Minnesota because they have zippo offensively even less than us, except for that stud, whom we also passed on for a lineman to get us nowhere You can't hate on the Atlanta trade until we see who the Browns draft next year with Atlanta's 1st and 4th rounders.. And you don't think Peterson has been effective this year? 800 yards rushing (out of Minnesota's 1200 total) and 9 TD's seems a lot better than the Browns 600 yards and 2 TD's. If Minnesota had zippo offensively and was worse on offense than the Browns, why are they ranked 18th in total offense while the Browns are 31st? The Vikings offense has averaged 21.5 pts per game compared to the Browns 14.9. More proof you have no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 your linking the lack of production with sacks....why not do this same analysis with hurries and hits as well? the base of this argument is fundamentally flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Larry, this team has huge offensive issues, all about no playmakers, not about the dime a dozen oline, but most blame the qb, so we will move o stupid again, until mgt understands the ol is a dime a dozen, and starts providing playmakers no oline will be performing well. Skilled stars make blocking easy, slugs at skill positions make blocking impossible and it is indeed as simple as that Rich, While I do NOT agree with you on the OL being "a dime a dozen", I DO wholeheartedly agree that we have no playmakers to scare defenses, slow the week in/week out blitzing Colt is having to deal with, & create a more liveable & successful environment for our O-line. The ONLY play maker the Browns now have is Cribbs & I think if he was at RB, things might improve somewhat. Looking forward to the draft, we need O-linemen, but we need playmakers FIRST. I also would like to see a successful veteran WR on the field to help our young receivers along & teach by example. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Larry, this team has huge offensive issues, all about no playmakers, not about the dime a dozen oline, but most blame the qb, so we will move o stupid again, until mgt understands the ol is a dime a dozen, and starts providing playmakers no oline will be performing well. Skilled stars make blocking easy, slugs at skill positions make blocking impossible and it is indeed as simple as that Well, Philadelphia has a plethora of playmakers on their offense: Vick, Shady McCoy, Maclin, DeShawn Jackson, yet, they have the same record as the Browns. Their OL is bad. What you have to have is both: good playmakers, good linemen. One can't work without the other. And quite frankly, the Browns need improvement in both areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebsterSlaughter Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Well, Philadelphia has a plethora of playmakers on their offense: Vick, Shady McCoy, Maclin, DeShawn Jackson, yet, they have the same record as the Browns. Their OL is bad. What you have to have is both: good playmakers, good linemen. One can't work without the other. And quite frankly, the Browns need improvement in both areas. Philadelphia's offense is doing quite well actually. It's their defense that is complete garbage. Colt McCoy doesn't seem to be very good at reading blitzes, anticipating pressure or making hot reads. If there are 6 guys coming on the blitz and we only have 5 guys blocking its not the OL fault when he gets hit. He has to learn to get rid of the ball and make the defense pay for blitzing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 So you want him to throw ints, and out of bounds every play. Got it. Baloney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebsterSlaughter Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 So you want him to throw ints, and out of bounds every play. Got it. Baloney. You obviously don't know much about football plays, or have never even played Madden. When the defense brings 6 guys and you send out 5, that usually means everyone will be covered 1 on 1 with no additional help. It the QBs job to exploit that situation and get rid of the ball quickly before the free blitzing defender can get to him. This puts pressure on the defense. When the defense blitzes a good QB makes them pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Philadelphia's offense is doing quite well actually. It's their defense that is complete garbage. Colt McCoy doesn't seem to be very good at reading blitzes, anticipating pressure or making hot reads. If there are 6 guys coming on the blitz and we only have 5 guys blocking its not the OL fault when he gets hit. He has to learn to get rid of the ball and make the defense pay for blitzing. Well, as I understand it, in Shurmur's offense there is no such thing as a "Hot Receiver"....so there are no "hot reads" for McCoy to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 You obviously don't understand football, either, then.... because my point was, that to make the defense pay, you MUST have an outlet. The only wr the Browns have, who can do that quickly, is Little. And he gets double coverage on passing downs often. But not even Little can get open 1.5 seconds after the ball is snapped. The Browns don't have a blazing downfield threat that can get open before Colt gets slammed into the turf, or has to take off to avoid the rush. Perhaps you missed the play last week - the blitz was on, and Colt had to throw way early... and he threw downfield in a high arc, at the sideline, where Little made a fantastic catch. You just don't expect to make that work every down. On all sorts of plays, Colt doesn't have THAT much time. Who the hell does Colt throw to when he can't even take two steps before getting slammed into, and nobody is open? Come on, man. Colt isn't perfect at all, but seriously? You don't see the right side of the oline collapsing on the snap of the ball? I have seen defensive LINEMEN cover some of Colts targets. The right side of the oline is so weak, you can't even run a lot of plays. The defenses know that. They also know that Little is Colt's only legit threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Another thing, when the squeeeelers play... you ever see butt rothlicksbooger get sacked? Take off running? Of course you do. "Gosh, why didn't he just make them pay for the blitz by quickly throwing the ball?" you ask? Because nobody was available. Nobody was open. The rush came too fast, and his oline is strong, but not invincible. It just doesn't happen to butt R very often. It happens to Colt most of the time. The squeelers drafted the guy I wanted for the Browns... Gilbert, RT, in the second round. The squeelers have bookend tackles and a #1 draft pick at center. butt R has more time and faster, far more elusive receivers... (with Little being the exception). That RT problem has been ruining a lot of the Browns' chances on offense, running and passing. You watch them fix that problem next spring. This stupid stuff about dissing olinemen as being "dime a dozen"... then why the hell have the squeelers spent any draft picks at all on them? Why didn't the squeeeelers just sign their entire offensive line from some little college somewhere as FA's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 all of the above plus 4. Lack of strength at WR I know otheres have brought this topic up, but without a good core of WR's the def can blitz more often and get away with 1 on 1 coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 or have never even played Madden. :lol: :lol: just like playing 'tour of duty' will make you an ass kickin soldier. GTFO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebsterSlaughter Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 :lol: :lol: just like playing 'tour of duty' will make you an ass kickin soldier. GTFO! You're an idiot. And the game is called Call of Duty. NFL players do play Madden, and some have even said that it helps them recognize coverage and make reads. I bet you don't know the difference between a cover 2 and a cover 4. What's the strong safety's first move in a cover 2? What's a zone dog? How do you recognize if a defense is playing man under or zone? Whats the best way to attack a cover 3? Guess where I learned those things? Yes playing Madden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Web translation: "Looka me ! Looka me ! I'm a race car driver because I won a race on my XBox ! YAY ! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 You're an idiot. And the game is called Call of Duty. NFL players do play Madden, and some have even said that it helps them recognize coverage and make reads. I bet you don't know the difference between a cover 2 and a cover 4. What's the strong safety's first move in a cover 2? What's a zone dog? How do you recognize if a defense is playing man under or zone? Whats the best way to attack a cover 3? Guess where I learned those things? Yes playing Madden. Reading defenses is predicated on what the Free Safety does and where he cheats pre snap...Just ask Bernie Kosar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 You're an idiot. And the game is called Call of Duty. just proved my point kid. who's the idiot? you spend $60 for a video game, play it for a month or two, sit in your mom's basement smoking weed at 40 years old. at least i know how to waste money. a bottle of cuervo, some fine ladies and some loud prog rock (maybe some camel or some hawkwind) and a football game on the widescreen. now that's the way to go there buddy boy. talk to me when you're done weening off of teet milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebsterSlaughter Posted November 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Reading defenses is predicated on what the Free Safety does and where he cheats pre snap...Just ask Bernie Kosar Both safeties line up on or near the hashes and their 1st step is backwards in a cover 2. And if your making a basic 3-step drop read you're most likely going to be reading a linebacker or SS. Reading the free safety is usually only important if you plan on throwing deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebsterSlaughter Posted November 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 just proved my point kid. who's the idiot? you spend $60 for a video game, play it for a month or two, sit in your mom's basement smoking weed at 40 years old. at least i know how to waste money. a bottle of cuervo, some fine ladies and some loud prog rock (maybe some camel or some hawkwind) and a football game on the widescreen. now that's the way to go there buddy boy. talk to me when you're done weening off of teet milk. Actually I'm in my 20's and I still play football instead of just watching it on TV like you. FYI I don't even play Madden anymore, no time for it. I did play it everyday while in college though. At least we can agree on the prog rock. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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