The Upsides

[rich4eagle]

In general the defensive scheme is a positive. Jamaal Sheard my be a long time solid DE who can put heat on QB's, Haden appears to be a long term solid CB

 

After that, since I have not really deeply analyzed the team for a bunch of years because we have sucked, I ask REAL football minds for inputs on young players with big upside to build on

 

Not interested in hearing about OL guys because they are a dime a dozen and available driving cabs even in November to step right in

 

We need RB's and WR's and maybe a QB

 

Colt is playing against big time opposition with little to work with, so I still give him a pass

 

But, if we get a chance at Luck or Griffin I would take either with the one pick

 

I also like Montee Ball and Trent Richardson very much

 

Since we suck now, we need to start talking about scoring TD's. OL guys DO NOT SCORE TDS nor do they make skill players better

 

In fact it is the opposite, so please no more bs about getting OL guys in this thread

 

Further, the offensive scheme on this team is defunct so we need to change that to making plays that stretch the field with players who can

 

NO DISSING JUST HARD COLD feature views on what wins, and please keep dime a dozen OL guys out of this discussion

 

and if you want to piss on people because of an opionion call them on the phone

 

 

Thanks all, from me the new architect of making winning football a fun thing in Cleveland

[The Cysko Kid]

If ol guys are a dime a dozen who is supposed to protect the quarterback from the three hundred pound monsters coming to kill him? Just some cab driver off the street? Lmfao they'd get handled as easily as you and ghoolie.

[Hunt Daddy]

I think we need some o-line players.

[VaporTrail]

I would draft o line.

[rich4eagle]

If ol guys are a dime a dozen who is supposed to protect the quarterback from the three hundred pound monsters coming to kill him? Just some cab driver off the street? Lmfao they'd get handled as easily as you and ghoolie.

 

 

 

That is not part of this thread as specified in the lead post, hopefully management will move your post in the HOW to KEEP LOSING FOREVER THREAD

 

meanwhile, I would appreciate you deleting your post and I will do the same with this one

 

if you do not you disrespect common human decency

 

For astute fans lets talk about the subject matter.............WINNING BY SCORING

[BaconHound]

Colt is fine but Haden is overrated!!!!!!

[miktoxic]

haden, ward, sheard, taylor, DQ, rubin, mack, thomas, mccoy..........maybe little. maybe norwood. maybe the rookie TE. everyone else you can flush down the toilet.

 

first pick blackmon. second pick mathieu from lsu (kick returns and cb/safety).

 

then RT. then LB LB LB

[ballpeen]

We can forget Colt McCoy....he sucks. He has a weak arm, isn't accurate, and doesn't see the field.

 

 

We are wasting our time with that guy.

[The Cysko Kid]

That is not part of this thread as specified in the lead post, hopefully management will move your post in the HOW to KEEP LOSING FOREVER THREAD

 

meanwhile, I would appreciate you deleting your post and I will do the same with this one

 

if you do not you disrespect common human decency

 

For astute fans lets talk about the subject matter.............WINNING BY SCORING

 

If you don't want to talk about it why do you keep bringing it up over and over again?

[htownbrown]

I will admit it. I WAS WRONG TO CALL OUT SHEARD IN PRESEASON. The dude has come a long way since being blown up by JT every play. The guy looks real good. With a good draft AND a FA or two this defense could be the best we've had since the return. The LBs are killing this unit, they need to grab a good, young one.

 

Now this next thing I'm gonna say might have me admitting I'm wrong once again but WE WILL DRAFT A QB IN THE 1ST ROUND. This team needs someone who knows when to pull the trigger and trust his arm to make those throws that need to be made in tight coverage. We won't win in this league, in this division until that happens. We need help everywhere on offense, but you can't expect this front office to go all in on McCoy. He may not be the biggest problem, but he just doesn't give us a good chance to win. Besides for all that drafting a QB buys the staff a few more years.

[Hunt Daddy]

Mathieu is a sophomore. He can't come out.

 

And if OLinemen are a dime a dozen, why do we have 3 that suck?

[miktoxic]

Mathieu is a sophomore. He can't come out.

 

wow that shows you how much i know about the ncaaf.

 

dude looks like he has like a hyper reality vision type thing where things to him move at normal speed while they are really moving super-sonic.

[slimdawg]

I wonder what the Pats would want in return for Mallet, he looks like a prototypical NFL QB

[jnuh]

Our building blocks(that will be under contract after the season) would have to be ...

 

JT, Mack, Haden, Rubin, Taylor, Sheard, and Ward

 

Those guys are more or less guys who should be starting (and obviously are starting)

 

Evan Moore, Little, McCoy, Norwood, and Skrine are all guys currently on the roster that are in either yr 1 or 2 and can develop into good players with time.

 

Basically they are guys with some potential that should be kept around.

 

Cribbs, Fujita, GoCong, Watson and Dawson are all servicible vets.

 

In other words we can't replace everyone and we should keep them if for nothing else for depth.

 

DQ and Hillis are both free agents. For the right price I would like to see both brought back, but I can't see Hillis coming back after all the drama and if DQ was smart he would run for the hills. Obviously I wouldn't want to give Hillis big money, but he can definitly have a role on our team as a short yardage back and a back that can catch well out of the backfield. DQ is having a very good year and I would like for him to come back, but again doesn't warrent the kind of money you would pay a stud backer ... he should get a better deal then Gocong though IMO.

 

As far as what we need to do ... obviously we need play makers o offense, but we also badly need a legit end opposite of Sheard, we need 2 outside backers, a CB, and a FS. In theory drafting a stud CB could potential fill the FS void as we might be able to play Sheldon Brown there.

 

As far as drafting WR's ... eh I am not a fan in the first round. There are some very good WRs in there prime that are free agents. We need a playmaker so bad why gamble on it?? We can sign a guy like Desean Jackson who we know can ball in the NFL and make sick plays and return punts. I am sure all these kids coming out in the draft have some sick upside ... but why gamble when we can just buy what we need instead. Plus we can add a LB, CB, or DE with the first 2 picks and really sure up the D. Our D with some more help could be a really good D. Lets go out and get a Von Miller type backer to make plays for us.

 

I would love for us to be able to grab Lamichael James in round 2 or 3. That kid is going to be a beast of a running back in the NFL.

 

Thats just my opinion take it with a grain of salt

[jnuh]

I wonder what the Pats would want in return for Mallet, he looks like a prototypical NFL QB

 

They wasted a third on him ... so atleast a second and later picks or a first. I couldn't honestly see them taking less then a first rounder for the kid. Thats just how they roll

[hoorta]

In general the defensive scheme is a positive. Jamaal Sheard my be a long time solid DE who can put heat on QB's, Haden appears to be a long term solid CB

 

After that, since I have not really deeply analyzed the team for a bunch of years because we have sucked, I ask REAL football minds for inputs on young players with big upside to build on

 

Not interested in hearing about OL guys because they are a dime a dozen and available driving cabs even in November to step right in

 

We need RB's and WR's and maybe a QB

 

Colt is playing against big time opposition with little to work with, so I still give him a pass

 

But, if we get a chance at Luck or Griffin I would take either with the one pick

 

I also like Montee Ball and Trent Richardson very much

 

Since we suck now, we need to start talking about scoring TD's. OL guys DO NOT SCORE TDS nor do they make skill players better

 

In fact it is the opposite, so please no more bs about getting OL guys in this thread

 

Further, the offensive scheme on this team is defunct so we need to change that to making plays that stretch the field with players who can

 

NO DISSING JUST HARD COLD feature views on what wins, and please keep dime a dozen OL guys out of this discussion

 

and if you want to piss on people because of an opionion call them on the phone

 

 

Thanks all, from me the new architect of making winning football a fun thing in Cleveland

 

Disagree about Fujita and No-kong. Not good enough- not even close.

 

 

I'll only bring up O-line once Rich- it's my specialty, and there is one glaring weakness- Pashos needs to go- he sucks. Draft or FA, doesn't matter.

 

Now to compete with the Ravens- we need some real linebackers. Honestly, the Ratbirds could have beaten us today without Flacco throwing a single pass. The D-line is doing their job for the most part, but the feet in cement 'backers are too damn slow to fill in the cutback lanes.

 

I'm 90% in agreement with 'Peen that the McCoy experiment is over- just flat out not good enough. Will make a nice long term #2 if he's willing to accept that role.

 

We really need a legit #1 WR. Little can be OK as a #2, and Norwood is showing promise- at least the kid can get open.

 

Anyone who thinks Haden is over rated is out of their minds- Joe is easily one of the top 5 Corners ever to play for the Browns. You expect the guy to cover the other teams #1 WR forever because we STILL can't generate an effective pass rush?

 

OK, core players Defense. Sheard, Taylor, Rubin, Haden, Ward. Offense, Thomas, Little, Watson. Hey Ghoolie you notice that nice 50 yard pass your washed up Hillis caught today? I'd like him back, at the right price.

[rich4eagle]

Maybe, eventually this topic may get around to the premise in the lead post! And that was to win you need to be able to score often and especially when behind. We cannot score and getting OL guys is not gonna help. I was hoping people addressed scoring and specific players to get for skill postions to make us able to score. I was hoping for suggestions for WR and RB and TE and even QB. I understand we need a lot of help on defense, I also understand that our defense has been average to above for the season and the offense has been slightly worse than AWFUL with two high first round picks manning it,

 

I do not want to hear about Little being a playmaker or Norwood or Hillis or Hardesty or Obo or Cribbs or any of the offensive skill players. Not a single one puts fear into the heart of any defensive player not one. On defense I mentioned Sheard and Haden as showing big potential to be disruptive.

 

Please do not continue to waste space about OL, that worn out story is going on 11 years and five cycles and two winning seasons. I made it clear before the draft last year that we had NO offensive weapons including Hillis and Cribbs and that Hillis would never have a season like he had half of last year. I aso made clear we needed last year to draft Offensive skill players 1,2,3,4 and we went defense 1,2 and we stink and are boring and worse than ever on offense

 

So what I was hoping for was a discussion of whom we had that could be impact players, right now I only see two both on defense. Further, an offensive lineman by definition cannot be an impact player

 

One fellow mentioned Blackmon, I would like to see the discussion amplified

 

I will bring out Trent Richardson and Montee Ball and the Oregon RB was mentioned above

 

Based on where we draft if the right QB is there I would take him.. The pundits are enamored with Luck, maybe Griffin is better or Keenan

 

So, I am asking for help as to whom are the people to go get in the draft and in free agency that make an impact and change games

 

Right NOW we have NONE glaringly so on offense and maybe one or two defensive players with promise

 

No need to bring anything about OL or Hillis or any WR or any RB or any offensive player on the current roster

 

Whatever regime is in charge come April we better this time for the first time since 1999 go after offensive skill players with the top three picks and get some in free agency as well and use the low picks on disruptive DE's and LB's

[cdl15]

Why don't they make hillis a fullback. he's not a bad blocker. he's good short yard guy makes good catches outta back field. yep hillis blocking for Trent Richardson id pay to see that

[bringbackbrownie2]

Ok Rich I'll play.

 

WRs: Blackmon (Oklahoma St.) and Wright (Baylor). I would be happy with either or both. Blackmon will be a top 5 pick and Wright will probably go in the second round. I'm not a big fan of Floyd or Toon. Toon reminds me too much of Robiskie.

 

RBs: Richardson (Alabama), Wilson (Virginia Tech), and Pierce (Temple). Richardson will probably be a top 10 pick, Wilson a 2nd, and Pierce a 3rd or 4th. If Blackmon is available I would take him and pick Wilson or Pierce later in the draft. Richardson reminds me of a bigger, slightly slower MJD. Wilson is fast and can break tackles, and Pierce has good vision and agility. I don't really like James (Oregon) or Ball (Wisconsin). James needs open space to use his speed and isn't big enough to break many tackles. Ball isn't very fast and isn't particularly good at breaking tackles either. Just my opinions.

 

QBs: Luck (Stanford), Griffin (Baylor), Cousins (Michigan St). Luck is the obvious #1 pick. Griffin will probably be a top 10 pick and I like him a lot more than Barkley. Cousins would be a 3rd or 4th rounder. I would only select Cousins if we don't get a QB in the first round. He has a strong arm and doesn't seem stare down the same receiver (as Colt seems to do) and makes multiple reads.

 

LBs: I can't really decide which linebackers I like, but I would be shocked if the Browns don't use their second 1st rounder on one. Kueckly (Boston College), Upshaw (Alabama), Hightower (Alabama), or Brown (North Carolina -if Brown is still on the board late 1st round) are all good candidates. Upshaw might be more of a DE in a 4-3 though, but the Browns need a RE too..

 

OL: Sorry I couldn't resist. I would use the second 4th rounder or 5th rounder on a lineman and sign another through free agency as cheap depth. Hopefully Steinbach can be healthy next year so Pinkston can move to right guard and then our 4th or 5th rounder could hopefully fill in at RT.

 

It's hard to predict who the Browns will take since we don't know the draft order yet. But I think it's a safe bet that the Browns will have around the 5th and 22nd overall picks.. I'm not gonna bother trying to do mock drafts since we don't know who picks before the Browns. The Rams, Jaguars, and Vikings seem to be our biggest competition for drafting Blackmon right now. Plus who knows if the Browns will try to sign any big name free agents between now and the draft..

[bringbackbrownie2]

Why don't they make hillis a fullback. he's not a bad blocker. he's good short yard guy makes good catches outta back field. yep hillis blocking for Trent Richardson id pay to see that

 

I was actually going to suggest that as well. The problem is Hillis probably doesn't want to play as a FB and would clearly not be paid the money he has been asking for. But I have to agree that he would make a great FB and could still be used on some short yardage situations and the occasional screen.

[DawginIT]

Points to Build on: Defense - Sheard, Taylor, Rubin, DJack, Haden, Ward, Gocong (only because they are giving him $18 million)

Offense - Thomas, Mack, Marecic, Moore, Little, Norwood, Cameron

 

Uprgades: Defense - Right defensive end, 1 or 2 Outside linebackers, safety, corner

Offense - Right Tackle, move Pinkston to Right Guard when Steinback returns, Receivers!

 

Draft Options: Defense - Quinton Coples, Zach Brown, Jarvis Jones, Chase Minnifield, Melvin Ingram, Jayron Hosley

Offense - Alshon Jeffery, Michael Floyd, Kendall Wright, Mike Adams, Riley Reiff, Trent Richardson (if available)

 

Other Options: Defense - Buster Skrine replaces Brown opposite Haden, Titus Brown/Kaluka Maiava in for Fujita.

Offense - Sign Hillis if he brings his price down and use a two back system with Ogbonnaya. Also, Armond Smith anyone? Great speed and led the team in preseason rushing. Use Evan Moore, that's why you paid him (also teach him how to block and don't throw to him the first play you put him in the game EVERY TIME). Draft #1 reciver, Little at 2, Norwood slot.

 

Late in Draft: It would be nice to use a later pick 4, 5, 6 round or so on a quarterback like Kirk Cousins or John Brantley to put a little bit of pressure on McCoy because he knows he will not lose the job to Seneca. Also, Bobby Rainey from Western Kentucky is leading the nation in rushing and has a similar stature to MJD, Ray Rice, and Michael Turner. Remember there are a lot of playermakers in the NFL that are not from big schools i.e. UCLA, Rutgers, Northern Illinois.

 

I hope this helps because I really believe what I'm saying here.

[DawginIT]

Also, I think McCoy should get the nod going into next year with a fair chance to prove himself behind an improved offensive line and a legitimate #1 receiver. You don't build a team by blowing 1st round picks on quarterbacks every 2 years. Build the core first and at a later date plug in a quarterback. It makes the transition a lot easier and quicker i.e. Aaron Rodgers!!

[bringbackbrownie2]

Also, I think McCoy should get the nod going into next year with a fair chance to prove himself behind an improved offensive line and a legitimate #1 receiver. You don't build a team by blowing 1st round picks on quarterbacks every 2 years. Build the core first and at a later date plug in a quarterback. It makes the transition a lot easier and quicker i.e. Aaron Rodgers!!

 

Generally you are correct, but McCoy was a 3rd round pick. Contrary to popular belief, the Browns have only spent 2 1st round picks on quarterbacks since 1999. Couch in 1999 and Quinn in 2007. I wouldn't be that opposed to drafting a QB in 2012 but I don't particularly want to..

[DawginIT]

Generally you are correct, but McCoy was a 3rd round pick. Contrary to popular belief, the Browns have only spent 2 1st round picks on quarterbacks since 1999. Couch in 1999 and Quinn in 2007. I wouldn't be that opposed to drafting a QB in 2012 but I don't particularly want to..

Yes you are right I was exaggerating some to prove a point but I woul hope you would agree that you are never going to build a team by changing the most key position every 2 years. The Steelers, Ravens, and Packers all had pretty good teams when they plugged in Big Ben, Flacco, and Rodgers and it has worked pretty well for them. Build the team first, defense especially, then when that's done, if McCoy or whoever is not the guy, go get a new one.

[htownbrown]

Yes you are right I was exaggerating some to prove a point but I woul hope you would agree that you are never going to build a team by changing the most key position every 2 years. The Steelers, Ravens, and Packers all had pretty good teams when they plugged in Big Ben, Flacco, and Rodgers and it has worked pretty well for them. Build the team first, defense especially, then when that's done, if McCoy or whoever is not the guy, go get a new one.

 

You could give McCoy 4 Jerry Rices and he still couldn't do what Fat Ben does.

 

I'm all for drafting a QB every year if that's what it takes. Your not building anything without a good one.

[bringbackbrownie2]

You could give McCoy 4 Jerry Rices and he still couldn't do what Fat Ben does.

 

I'm all for drafting a QB every year if that's what it takes. Your not building anything without a good one.

 

But that's just it. The Browns would be drafting a new QB every year for eternity if they don't get any other playmakers to complement the QB. I would rather wait until 2013 to spend a high draft pick on a QB unless the 2013 draft is supposed to be crap for QBs (I'm not really sure). Use the 2012 draft on Wrs, RBs, and LBs. McCoy hasn't been winning us games but he hasn't been throwing away games either..

[htownbrown]

When we find our QB we will know it. The search will end. Then we can enjoy football again. We can draft a wr and qb in the same draft ya know.

[The Gipper]

You could give McCoy 4 Jerry Rices and he still couldn't do what Fat Ben does.

 

I'm all for drafting a QB every year if that's what it takes. Your not building anything without a good one.

 

Except of course history tells us that is not true. If you have the defense, the running game, the OL etc. you can have an average QB. I mean, the likes of Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson were not killer QBs.

Sure, you are better off having a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady or a Drew Brees, but it can be done without a QB of that quality. I say build up the rest of the team, then plug in the QB as the last piece of the puzzle....the same way Pittsburgh did it.