PPE6.6 Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy_ha_1.html What does everyone think of this? Ive been arguing these exact same points with all my typical, unrealistic browns buddies but they are all for getting rid of colt and drafting RG3 and its makes me sick to my stomach how dumb people are. Getting rid of people every year and starting fresh hasnt worked for how long now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPE6.6 Posted December 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 45 views and no response??? someone chime in and tell me why Rich Gannon (who knows way more than you or I about the sport) is wrong or right. A lot of Mccoy haters reading this or what??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I think it would be a huge mistake to get rid of colt for r2d2 Let me tell you drew brees first 2 years in the nfl was so bad the chargers drafted philip rivers.. I'm not sure but someone tell me how brees stats compared to colts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I've seen enough that if we don't get a QB and stick with Colt I won't care, but if we do I also won't care. I think RGIII will be way better than Colt and I think we won't be picking this low for a long while so we might as well pick QB now instead of going another season and picking at 10 or something next year. Could McCoy be like Bree's, ya but he also is never going to be playing in a dome like Bree's which is one of the reasons he does so well. Still there is very little chance that McCoy will ever be as good as Bree's and at best will develop into an average QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 He is an average qb right now with zero weapons.. I'm not all high on colt, I just don't think he has any help.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Colt looks like a long term project to me, he is definitely not a bust as a 3rd rounder and will at minimal serve as an excellent backup.. With that said he lacks leadership ability and appears to lack confidence and other intangibles .. I certainly am not a colt hater but i wish the kid would stop constantly hanging his head down he just does not look like a leader he looks unsure of himself and out of character.. He has no quality targets but that is part of being the QB, being able to adjust, adapt and overcome and work with what he has.. While i doubt this bumbling slow regime will get rid of colt i suspect there will be a heated QB competition next year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawginIT Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 I think it would be a huge mistake to get rid of colt for r2d2 Let me tell you drew brees first 2 years in the nfl was so bad the chargers drafted philip rivers.. I'm not sure but someone tell me how brees stats compared to colts? Brees and McCoy had nearly identical numbers through their first 2 seasons I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamac19 Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Brees and McCoy had nearly identical numbers through their first 2 seasons I believe. Your right their stats were pretty comparable, and don't think anyone is suggesting that Colt will turn into Brees, but the Browns will look idiots if they don't give him one year to play with some proper weapons to make sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 People forget how important a running game and RG are. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownB499 Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Your right their stats were pretty comparable, and don't think anyone is suggesting that Colt will turn into Brees, but the Browns will look idiots if they don't give him one year to play with some proper weapons to make sure. And by "weapons" I hope you mean a real coach who has some idea of what a NFL offense really looks like The real question is what would Brees look like trying to operate under this horse shit offense with these horse shit weapons? MVP? .... Not The NFL is full of stories like Gannons, QBs that combined with the right system and turned their career around...Gannon/Gruden...Warner/Martz/Whisenhutt...Brees/Payton If the Browns really think Colt is the future,they'll look for an OC that can work to his strengths...One thing that is painfully clear after watching Wallace the last two weeks ....Shurmur=shit Holmgren has a tough decision to make..."Did I choose the wrong QB...Or the wrong coach? I think we all know Holmgrens answer...Neither "And don't come look'n for tickets from me when we make the playoffs!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownfish Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Agree 100% we need to keep him at least one more year...A boat load of QBs that had great careers and started out like this...i remember my father bashing Elway his first few seasons...he was terrible. I like colt, he is a great kid, hard worker...we need to embrace him a bit more. I still watch the highlights of the patriots game last year...he was really good for a rookie. Keep the kid, save a bundle and bring in some O-line help, a good WR and some D...our D is terrible it is pure trash!!! pick up our QB if we need to in 2013 or 14 and we will have not wasted it on another mediocre QB. I really hope Colt plays next Sunday. He has been wobble with that leg for a bit and hopefully he will be 100% for the first time in about a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamac19 Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 And by "weapons" I hope you mean a real coach who has some idea of what a NFL offense really looks like The real question is what would Brees look like trying to operate under this horse shit offense with these horse shit weapons? MVP? .... Not The NFL is full of stories like Gannons, QBs that combined with the right system and turned their career around...Gannon/Gruden...Warner/Martz/Whisenhutt...Brees/Payton If the Browns really think Colt is the future,they'll look for an OC that can work to his strengths...One thing that is painfully clear after watching Wallace the last two weeks ....Shurmur=shit Holmgren has a tough decision to make..."Did I choose the wrong QB...Or the wrong coach? I think we all know Holmgrens answer...Neither "And to come look'n for tickets from me when we make the playoffs!" No your totally right there, and same as others have said that McCoy might just be in the wrong system(Shit Coaching/Play calling)That is what am worried about fact that we will keep Shurmur, when should really be him getting the boot and trying McCoy out with weapons and a System that suits him better, or at least is more suited to more QB's so it is easier to integrate a new one into it if Colt doesnt make the giant steps he needs to next year.I honestly think McCoy would have managed that game against the Ravens better than Wallace. but RG III wont fit into Shurmurs crap system that much better if they went and got him in the Draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebsterSlaughter Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 McCoy is a 3rd round pick. Explain why he should get more time than FRye?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantonLegend Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 McCoy is a 3rd round pick. Explain why he should get more time than FRye?? part of the problem is that frye didnt get enough time either....none of clevelands QBs do when was the last QB that was given the go ahead for a full season worth of starts? when was the last QB that started for the browns that went down with an injury and wasnt in a competition for the starting spot as soon as he got back no QB will ever succeed in cleveland if they arent given enough time and some talent around them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 McCoy has a tendency to stare down at receivers and miss out on the open ones. McCoy seems not be slow when it comes to making decisions. McCoy's long throw are not accurate enough. McCoy tends to hang on to the ball longer than he should. While he can do all these things in the college and get away with it, The NFL will not be that forgiving - ESPCIALLY this division. The league has become more QB driven nowadays, so taking a QB with a strong arm and a smart mind is not a bad thing. And it is not like everyone wants to get rid of Colt from the NFL. He has skills that rings 'Excellent Backup' and that is not a bad thing. I do agree that we need more weapons, We need more skill players on Offense and Defense. And that Colt is not the root cause of our suckiness. But if wehave an opportunity to improve on a position then why not do it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy_ha_1.html What does everyone think of this? Ive been arguing these exact same points with all my typical, unrealistic browns buddies but they are all for getting rid of colt and drafting RG3 and its makes me sick to my stomach how dumb people are. Getting rid of people every year and starting fresh hasnt worked for how long now? Mccoy has shown more potential than you get with Wallace. These fans who consuder Wallace to be the better qb have no idea what they are watching. However, I'm not sold on Mccoy being the guy who can take this team to the playoffs. Of course, if everyone around him were upgraded to Probowl type playes, he would be adequate. I would prefer to draft a qb with a stronger arm, and more size, but not in the first round. We can fill the need for a #1 receiver with our fiest pick and go from there. Let Colt compete for the job next season, and see how he does. In my opinion, it's impossible to tell how good your qb really is with the present circumstances.....moron HC. A few good players aren't going to change the end result. Next season will be very much like this one, if there is no coaching change.......it really doesn't matter who the qb is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns57 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 McCoy has a tendency to stare down at receivers and miss out on the open ones. McCoy seems not be slow when it comes to making decisions. McCoy's long throw are not accurate enough. McCoy tends to hang on to the ball longer than he should. While he can do all these things in the college and get away with it, The NFL will not be that forgiving - ESPCIALLY this division. The league has become more QB driven nowadays, so taking a QB with a strong arm and a smart mind is not a bad thing. And it is not like everyone wants to get rid of Colt from the NFL. He has skills that rings 'Excellent Backup' and that is not a bad thing. I do agree that we need more weapons, We need more skill players on Offense and Defense. And that Colt is not the root cause of our suckiness. But if wehave an opportunity to improve on a position then why not do it ? Seems like we have this discussion each week, and I believe the post above really sums up where we are with McCoy. Wallace has played better or just as well IMO. Can we all agree that Wallace is not a starting QB in this league? If so, by that logic McCoy is not a starting QB either!!! The Browns will pick between 3 and 8 this year! There is a perfect opportunity to make the move. Three solid Qb's at least that will go in the first round. A sleeper in Kellen Moore possible hanging out there too. There is a possibility the Rams get the first pick and take Luck. If so does Shurmer reach out to get Bradford from St. Loius? Is Kyle Orten a FA optionif we want to challenge Colt in camp and use our top picks on WR, RB or other playmakers for this team? IMO the sooner we move McCoy to the bench the sooner we improve! Well, that is if Shurmer learns how to coach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackbrownie2 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Seems like we have this discussion each week, and I believe the post above really sums up where we are with McCoy. Wallace has played better or just as well IMO. Can we all agree that Wallace is not a starting QB in this league? If so, by that logic McCoy is not a starting QB either!!! The Browns will pick between 3 and 8 this year! There is a perfect opportunity to make the move. Three solid Qb's at least that will go in the first round. A sleeper in Kellen Moore possible hanging out there too. There is a possibility the Rams get the first pick and take Luck. If so does Shurmer reach out to get Bradford from St. Loius? Is Kyle Orten a FA optionif we want to challenge Colt in camp and use our top picks on WR, RB or other playmakers for this team? IMO the sooner we move McCoy to the bench the sooner we improve! Well, that is if Shurmer learns how to coach! You are comparing a 9 year veteran QB to another QB with 1.5 years experience. Which has the potential to improve? It's simple - the younger one. Young QBs aren't perfect. Colt hasn't been perfect but neither was Drew Brees in his 2nd year as a starting QB (3rd season in the league). Brees had worse stats in his 2nd year than McCoy has this year. look it up if you don't believe me. Brees had 11 TDs and 15 picks with a QB rating in the high 60s. Colt has thrown for 15 TDs and 11 picks with a 74 rating. I'm not saying McCoy is for sure the long term answer at QB, but we need to get some WRs, RB depth, and fix the right side of our offensive line before we throw another QB under center. It's been hard enough to judge McCoy with the players he has to work. Why give some other QB the same inept offense to deal with? I believe H and H will let McCoy start another year (which is the right choice imo) while fixing the rest of the offense (as well as the defense). We will most likely draft a QB in the later rounds (maybe one of our 4th rounders) and see what McCoy can do with an improved offense. Then in 2013, we will know for sure if QB is a priority. We still have so many holes on both sides of the ball to waste a pick on a QB real high in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy_ha_1.html What does everyone think of this? Ive been arguing these exact same points with all my typical, unrealistic browns buddies but they are all for getting rid of colt and drafting RG3 and its makes me sick to my stomach how dumb people are. Getting rid of people every year and starting fresh hasnt worked for how long now? I happen to pretty much agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 No your totally right there, and same as others have said that McCoy might just be in the wrong system(Shit Coaching/Play calling)That is what am worried about fact that we will keep Shurmur, when should really be him getting the boot and trying McCoy out with weapons and a System that suits him better, or at least is more suited to more QB's so it is easier to integrate a new one into it if Colt doesnt make the giant steps he needs to next year.I honestly think McCoy would have managed that game against the Ravens better than Wallace. but RG III wont fit into Shurmurs crap system that much better if they went and got him in the Draft. I actually think McCoy would probably suit Shurmur's system better than RGIII might. The thing we may need is Shurmur's system....or should I say Holmgren's system, Bill Walsh's system, Paul Brown's system, without Shurmur running it. I still think it is highly possible that they bring in the unemployed Mike Sherman to the the OC next year. A Holmgren/WCO guy with a winning track record as both an OC and HC. And he is only like 53 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Seems like we have this discussion each week, and I believe the post above really sums up where we are with McCoy. Wallace has played better or just as well IMO. Can we all agree that Wallace is not a starting QB in this league? If so, by that logic McCoy is not a starting QB either!!! What I would not agree with is that Wallace has played better, or even equal to MCoy. The Browns will pick between 3 and 8 this year! There is a perfect opportunity to make the move. Three solid Qb's at least that will go in the first round. A sleeper in Kellen Moore possible hanging out there too. Kellen Moore is 5'11". And most people are saying that McCoy at 6'2" is too short. There is a possibility the Rams get the first pick and take Luck. If so does Shurmer reach out to get Bradford from St. Loius? Is Kyle Orten a FA optionif we want to challenge Colt in camp and use our top picks on WR, RB or other playmakers for this team? I do NOT see either Bradford or Orton as an upgrade over McCoy. An RGIII might be. I would far prefer to go in that direction than in the Bradfor/Orton direction. IMO the sooner we move McCoy to the bench the sooner we improve! Well, that is if Shurmer learns how to coach! The problem may be that we could bring in Andrew Luck/Brett Favre/Dan Marino/John Elway/Tom Brady/Joe Montana/Otto Graham/Sammy Baugh/Johnny Unitas and it wouldn't matter if Shurmur is in control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Bottom line for me... in today's NFL you do not consistently compete without a franchise QB. Is Colt a franchise QB? IMO, no... I think Colt's potential is limited to the "he can manage a game" level. Unfortunately, I believe, the other team traits that compliment this style of QB are further away today than they were a year ago, i.e., a strong defense and a run game. We can go that route, but it will take a long time... and when you get there, what do you have? A one-year wonder, e.g. the Dilfer Ravens? Too hard to build and hold together a team to complement a QB... especially in a small market city like Cleveland. With the possible exception of Luck, there's not an obvious franchise QB in the draft. No way he falls as low as we will draft... and no way I would do what it would take to trade up and get him. I'm just not that sure. If Blackmon (WR) or Richardson (RB) were available where we pick, I'd draft him. Otherwise I would do is trade down to 20-something again, stock up on more picks and nab Tannehill out of A&M, a kid that has a chance of becoming the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_illness Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Tourma. please stop this franchise QB business. Mark Sanchez. Alex Smith. heck, even Matt Hasslebeck isn't what many would call a "franchise" QB. Give me someone in the mold of Pennington, and we'd be worlds better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Sorry, but I just can't help myself... There are only a handful of consensus franchise QB's in the NFL at any given time (Brady, Rodgers, P. Manning, Brees, Rothlesberger), but where those few are you will find consistent contenders. Neither Sanchez nor Smith are among the current crop, IMO, never thought they were coming out of college either. Both are at best "manage the game" QB's. I agree with you on Hasselbeck... he's definitely not a franchise QB. Pennington? He had a chance at one time, but injuries took care of that. As for his mold... Colt fits that, so you should be happy. If anyone said they were easy to find, it wasn't me... but that doesn't mean you don't keep looking until you find one... and when you do you need to immediately start looking for your next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_illness Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 sure, sure. but we need a serious compare/contrast of "franchise" QB's and the parts around them. (including, perhaps most importantly, organizational and coaching/scheme structure) Does one really exist without the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 You are comparing a 9 year veteran QB to another QB with 1.5 years experience. Which has the potential to improve? It's simple - the younger one. Young QBs aren't perfect. Colt hasn't been perfect but neither was Drew Brees in his 2nd year as a starting QB (3rd season in the league). Brees had worse stats in his 2nd year than McCoy has this year. look it up if you don't believe me. Brees had 11 TDs and 15 picks with a QB rating in the high 60s. Colt has thrown for 15 TDs and 11 picks with a 74 rating. I'm not saying McCoy is for sure the long term answer at QB, but we need to get some WRs, RB depth, and fix the right side of our offensive line before we throw another QB under center. It's been hard enough to judge McCoy with the players he has to work. Why give some other QB the same inept offense to deal with? I believe H and H will let McCoy start another year (which is the right choice imo) while fixing the rest of the offense (as well as the defense). We will most likely draft a QB in the later rounds (maybe one of our 4th rounders) and see what McCoy can do with an improved offense. Then in 2013, we will know for sure if QB is a priority. We still have so many holes on both sides of the ball to waste a pick on a QB real high in the draft. Thank you. It's what I've been saying since last season. Colt is not THE guy, he's a placeholder until the offense gets built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Thank you. It's what I've been saying since last season. Colt is not THE guy, he's a placeholder until the offense gets built. That is true, but if there is a better QB available who can improve the offense, Is it better for the team to go after that QB ? (draft or FA) Remember - There are 3 "catchers" atleast (WR's + TE's) and only 1 thrower (QB). And if the guy throwing is not doing a good job throwing then all good WR's can and will suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Cleveland Browns' Colt McCoy might be good QB somewhere, but not in AFC North Division, executive says: Terry Pluto's Talkin' I talked to an AFC executive whose team plays the Browns in some seasons. "What's their problem?" I asked. He said: "They have put together a decent defense. I really like the kid from Pitt [Jabaal Sheard]. He can be a big-time player. [Phil] Taylor and [Ahtyba] Rubin are good tackles, but they desperately need another defensive end. Get a guy who is pretty good over there, and Sheard can really make an impact. [Joe] Haden, [T.J.] Ward, and [D'Qwell] Jackson are very good. Our coaches really love Jackson." "So it's not defense?" I asked. "They can always get better, especially at linebacker," he said. "But what division do the Browns play in?" "The AFC North," I said. "Who are the quarterbacks?" he asked. "Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, and . . ." "And your guy," he said. "Does Colt [McCoy] even come close to comparing with them? Here's the problem -- you play six games against those teams, often in bad weather. I think you need a quarterback who is physically big with a strong arm." "So you don't like McCoy," I said. "Not in that division," he said. "I'm not saying it's easy to find one. Think of all the quarterbacks that Baltimore went through before Flacco -- [Kyle] Boller, [Trent] Dilfer, [Tony] Banks, [steve] McNair, [Elvis] Grbac . . . I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys. Ben put Pittsburgh on the map for the Super Bowl. Dalton can play. Our coaches think Seneca [Wallace] is tougher to defend [than McCoy] because he's more mobile, but he's a backup. For years, the Browns have had a terrible offense and a quarterback problem. They usually go together." "The Browns do have two first-round picks," I said. "That can help them get a quarterback," he said. "But you have to be right. If they aren't sure [on a quarterback], then take two players who can really make an impact. Look at what [wide receiver A.J.] Green has done for the Bengals. When you play the Browns, you set your defense to stop [Peyton] Hillis. You can have a safety follow him, because no one in the passing game [quarterback or receivers] worries you." "So if you were the Browns, you'd be looking for a quarterback," I said. "In that division, they have no other choice," he said. "But don't force it. That is a team that needs impact players at a lot of positions." Link: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy_mi.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_illness Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 so it's a both and. i like this perspective and summary. we could use a QB. but DON'T (for the love of God) force it. keep building. (and fire Shumur.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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