Why We Need A Qb

[Nw220]

I tried explaining this to a friend today. He's a huge Colt lover, while I'm not a Colt hater, I realize what he is, a decent QB who will never go further than divisional playoffs.

 

He is certain that the Browns will draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round just to give the perception of a competition but Colt will ultimately be the guy. I told him just what you said, you don't open up competition on your franchise guy. Cam Newton isn't in a competition this off season, Aaron Rogers isn't in a QB competition. I don't know what people don't get, he sucked on his own accord. Doesn't matter who was around him. He must be judged on HIS performance which can be broken down through the film. You can see his throws, his choices, his reads. I'm quite positive that the coaches don't look at dropped passes and decide from that, so his lack of talent around him are a moot point.

 

What Colt supporters are telling me is that if we had a pro bowl O-line, 3 super star WR's, a 1,200 yard rusher and a coordinator who makes the perfect call everytime then Colt would be a good QB. I'm pretty sure I'd be a pretty good QB if I had all of that. What they fail to understand is that when you have a top tier QB he looks good no matter who's on his team. When he's surrounded by all those pieces they become a team like the Patriots and Packers.

 

 

Excatly

[calfoxwc]

What they fail to understand is that when you have a top tier QB he looks good no matter who's on his team J

*********************************

Nope. Archie Manning was a star qb, a super player. But he was drafted 2nd overall by the Saints.

 

He got the hell beaten out of him because of a pitiful surrounding cast.

 

It took eight years of drafting to get the offense to where he could be successful.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

"His record as a starter was 35–101–3 (26.3%), the worst in NFL history among QBs with at least 100 starts."

 

I keep forgetting the qb who was drafted by the old Colts. He was called the "Thoroughbred" sp? on the cover of Sports Illustrated.

 

But he got the hell beaten out of him, too. He was also a great player.

 

when Peyton Mannings' offensive line got badly overmatched, he threw four ints in a playoff game.

 

It's a team game. No great qb can be great with no open wr's, no pass protection, and no running game.

 

It does not work.

[TypicalBrowns]

Football is one of the sports that literally is all TEAM oriented. No way a QB looks good if the receivers drop the ball, the line doesn't block, and the running backs are injured. No way.

 

A QB can throw for 400 yds and 3 tds, but lose if the kicker misses the field goal to tie as time expires. It's all about the team. Look at the bengals with dalton. They have 4 very solid recievers and a pro bowl rookie receiver. Hence why dalton is in the playoffs.

 

To think a different QB on our same shitty offense would change anything is silly. Upgrade the tools around the QB, so then he simply gets the ball to them.

[Guest jparsh]

So why does a QB like Peyton Manning lead a 10-6 team that changes to a 3-13 team when he's out? How does Cam Newton turn a 2 win team into an exciting 6 win team in one year? I guess QB's have nothing to do with it.

[TypicalBrowns]

Let's put Kerry Collins in to lead the colts this year!

 

Then Curtis painter! Hence the 3-13 record with a QB that's too old and one that's the back up to a back up to a back up.

 

And jimmy clausen for the panthers before newton didn't do much. He was awful actually.

 

To say the browns are the same scenario is wrong though. The panthers and colts have offensive weapons. Just extremely shitty qbs. I mean so bad that the offense couldn't do anything. Colt isn't the same way. The browns O was all around bad. All year.

 

.

[Guest jparsh]

Let's put Kerry Collins in to lead the colts this year!

 

Then Curtis painter! Hence the 3-13 record with a QB that's too old and one that's the back up to a back up to a back up.

 

And jimmy clausen for the panthers before newton didn't do much. He was awful actually.

 

To say the browns are the same scenario is wrong though. The panthers and colts have offensive weapons. Just extremely shitty qbs. I mean so bad that the offense couldn't do anything. Colt isn't the same way. The browns O was all around bad. All year.

 

.

 

 

So in other words you pick and choose which ways you look at things. Kinda like a christian picking out the parts of the bible they agree with and are OK with following.

 

In one breath we have you saying that a bad QB's were the reason the Panthers and Colts did poorly...Ok, I can agree with that. In fact I'm the one that said bad QB's were the cause of their crappy teams. But then in the next breath you try to give some excuses of why Colt isn't the same way. Nobody can justify Colt as a good QB, all they can do is say the team was bad all the way around. I said it before and I'll say it again. He is not, nor will he be judged on the performance of the team. His film will be looked at and his accuracy, decisions, reads and so on and so on will be judged. And apparently it's already been judged. And it was decided that he's not the future QB. So while there is a legit debate for whether or not the Browns will take Griffin or not, and there's a debate whether or not Griffin will be good or not, I'll buy that. But I won't buy anything that defends Colt. He's already been deemed not worthy of being our starting QB, case closed.

[CantonLegend]

So why does a QB like Peyton Manning lead a 10-6 team that changes to a 3-13 team when he's out? How does Cam Newton turn a 2 win team into an exciting 6 win team in one year? I guess QB's have nothing to do with it.

The colts lost several players to injured reserve including Dallas Clark, one of the best receivers of this generation

 

The panthers picked up a new defensive minded coach and 2 of the best TEs the league has seen recently

 

What do both of those examples have in common? The TE situation. A TE is a QBs best friend and having a good TE to check down to or catch the tough passes over the middle is a huge help

 

Nobody mentions any of that tho. All you see is a new QB...if you paid any attention to other teams instead of just listening to what espn tells you then you'd know that the colts lost players and the panthers gained players

[calfoxwc]

So why does a QB like Peyton Manning lead a 10-6 team that changes to a 3-13 team when he's out? How does Cam Newton turn a 2 win team into an exciting 6 win team in one year? I guess QB's have nothing to do with it.

************************************************

Look at their wr's, offensive line (especially bookend tackles), and rb's.

 

Peyton ran the offense with most of the parts in place. Sure, the next qb had trouble. With other injuries, and he never

 

was allowed to take many snaps, etc.

 

But Manning wouldn't have taken this last year's team to the playoffs. Wr's are getting old. Wayne is near retirement.

 

Peyton was the master glue that kept the offense working with enough parts.

 

Peyton would not be able to keep the Browns' offense together. Not enough parts. Wayne is by far a better wr

 

that the Browns have had since 99, I think, except for Little next year.

[calfoxwc]

Look to yahoo and look at the Colts' oline this year. Their two rb's got 30-40 yards a game?

 

Two or three of their offensive linemen were UFA. They knew they'd have to rebuild their oline.

 

Last year, they drafted a LT. Too little, too late.

 

Go to yahoo and look at the surrounding cast, especially the bookend offensive tackles Cam has.

[htownbrown]

Successful teams build the offense around the QB. Holmgren himself has implied this many times.

 

Holmgren basically said he would bring in some competition and that the decision wouldn't take long. That McCoy didn't earn the job. He also keeps talking about how it takes 3-4-5 years after you find the guy.

 

He called the Rams on draft day and the Panthers too. He seems to be itching for a QB. I'm sure he'll call the Colts too.

 

There is only a few acceptable excuses for not drafting RG3.

 

A. They get a young guy with real potential in FA.

 

B. Blackmon was there and they have a 'better than Mccoy' option later in the draft.

 

C. They get a lot of picks and have a 'better than McCoy' option later in the draft.

 

Holmgren's success here is entirely hinging on his QB expertise. If he can't evaluate McCoy after 1 1/2 seasons then he isn't an expert.

[Guest jparsh]

The colts lost several players to injured reserve including Dallas Clark, one of the best receivers of this generation

 

The panthers picked up a new defensive minded coach and 2 of the best TEs the league has seen recently

 

What do both of those examples have in common? The TE situation. A TE is a QBs best friend and having a good TE to check down to or catch the tough passes over the middle is a huge help

 

Nobody mentions any of that tho. All you see is a new QB...if you paid any attention to other teams instead of just listening to what espn tells you then you'd know that the colts lost players and the panthers gained players

 

 

Dallas Clark is one of the best receivers of this generation????? and you may want to check your facts again because Clark played more games for this past 3 win season then he did in their 10 game season the previous year. LOL You have to be a troll looking to cause trouble because nobody is that stupid. And if there was one shining spot for the Browns it was our TE situation. Watson, Moore and Smith coming into his own was a great combination.

 

Please don't respond to any of my posts anymore, I'm willing to talk to serious people, but not people making stupid statements on purpose just to get a rise out of others.

[CantonLegend]

Dallas Clark is one of the best receivers of this generation????? and you may want to check your facts again because Clark played more games for this past 3 win season then he did in their 10 game season the previous year. LOL You have to be a troll looking to cause trouble because nobody is that stupid. And if there was one shining spot for the Browns it was our TE situation. Watson, Moore and Smith coming into his own was a great combination.

 

Please don't respond to any of my posts anymore, I'm willing to talk to serious people, but not people making stupid statements on purpose just to get a rise out of others.

Ben Watson is decent. He's no Dallas Clark or Greg Olsen or even Jeremy Shockey for that matter

 

Not to mention he too was placed on IR so colts options were a group of terrible wideouts, a 3rd string running back and 2 backup tight ends

 

And that's just a small sample of the issues McCoy was faced with this season.

 

Indy was also playing with a terrible defense that almost kept them out of the playoffs last year and injuries to guys like Austin collie and Pierre garçon

 

Not only that but their offensive line was about as good as the browns...which isn't very good

[CantonLegend]

Dallas Clark is one of the best receivers of this generation????? and you may want to check your facts again because Clark played more games for this past 3 win season then he did in their 10 game season the previous year. LOL You have to be a troll looking to cause trouble because nobody is that stupid. And if there was one shining spot for the Browns it was our TE situation. Watson, Moore and Smith coming into his own was a great combination.

 

Please don't respond to any of my posts anymore, I'm willing to talk to serious people, but not people making stupid statements on purpose just to get a rise out of others.

Oh and Dallas Clark is a 2 time all pro tight end based almost solely on his receiving

[Guest jparsh]

Listen kid, you're an idiot. Really, you are. Just go look for yourself what Dallas Clarke has done in his career. He's been in the league for at least 8 or more years I'd bet, and has had one, maybe two stand out years. The rest have been very average to below average.

 

And you can pick out injuries to every team every single year. I'm sure you'll catch up on sleep in study hall tomorrow but still, go to bed.

[PPE6.6]

Carlos is my hero!!! There are so many people are this forum that already have their mind made up and wont even begin to listen or comprehend a point someone is trying to make. Theres the people that say a QB turns his receivers into play makers, just ask Drew Brees how many play makers he made for the Chargers? This is a QB driven league like everyone is saying thats why the QBs are always getting blamed for a teams record. I too am tired of hearing about the arm strength of McCoy. Everyone is so caught up on all the elite QBs in the league and they compare them to what we have which is like comparing apples to oranges. These guys have played on the same teams, with the same coaches, and same systems for quite a while and it shows. How many of them are starting their first full year with a new head coach and new style of offense they had to learn with minimal time to practice it? How many of these teams have offensive lines that are ranked high on the charts? How many of these QBs have talent to throw to? Is anyone seeing the games that couldve been won if we didnt screw up a snap for a field goal, or all the dropped passes, or how close we are playing some pretty good teams under our circumstances? Hillis is out for a good chunk of the season so we have no run block and Colt was constantly under pressure and getting hit because of our lack of talent on the Oline and the lack of talent our receivers have to create serparation.I guess noone believes in developing a QB anymore. Its hard to argue with people that can see into the future and already know that RG3 is going to be great and Colt never will be. Sure RG3 looked swell in all of those college games where he could put up 60 points week after week, but how would he have looked in Colts shoes against say the steelers or ravens defense with our current roster? Theres typical browns fans then theres fans like Carlos which I was hoping I couldve found a lot more of when I decided to join this forum.

[TypicalBrowns]

So in other words you pick and choose which ways you look at things. Kinda like a christian picking out the parts of the bible they agree with and are OK with following.

 

In one breath we have you saying that a bad QB's were the reason the Panthers and Colts did poorly...Ok, I can agree with that. In fact I'm the one that said bad QB's were the cause of their crappy teams. But then in the next breath you try to give some excuses of why Colt isn't the same way. Nobody can justify Colt as a good QB, all they can do is say the team was bad all the way around. I said it before and I'll say it again. He is not, nor will he be judged on the performance of the team. His film will be looked at and his accuracy, decisions, reads and so on and so on will be judged. And apparently it's already been judged. And it was decided that he's not the future QB. So while there is a legit debate for whether or not the Browns will take Griffin or not, and there's a debate whether or not Griffin will be good or not, I'll buy that. But I won't buy anything that defends Colt. He's already been deemed not worthy of being our starting QB, case closed.

 

He certainly hasn't been deemed "unworthy" by Holmgren. It obviously its because of the MILLIONS of other problems the Browns had this year that McCoy can't be judged sufficiently enought, YET. no way do I say "yeah, McCoy looked like he's the one to lead the team for the next 8 years". How can you say he CAN'T though? Because he didn't lead our offensively bad "offense" to the playoffs. That's what Holmgren is saying. He just pads answers cause the media is ridiculous if he doesn't. He can't say too much, because words are always twisted to attract readers, *cough* Hillis drama *cough*.

 

And colts had injuries, RB problems, WR problems, bad run D. and I agree with what someone else said on here concerning the Colts not making the playoffs even with Manning. The team has aged badly, as shown by the 3-13 season.

[TypicalBrowns]

Carlos is my hero!!! There are so many people are this forum that already have their mind made up and wont even begin to listen or comprehend a point someone is trying to make. Theres the people that say a QB turns his receivers into play makers, just ask Drew Brees how many play makers he made for the Chargers? This is a QB driven league like everyone is saying thats why the QBs are always getting blamed for a teams record. I too am tired of hearing about the arm strength of McCoy. Everyone is so caught up on all the elite QBs in the league and they compare them to what we have which is like comparing apples to oranges. These guys have played on the same teams, with the same coaches, and same systems for quite a while and it shows. How many of them are starting their first full year with a new head coach and new style of offense they had to learn with minimal time to practice it? How many of these teams have offensive lines that are ranked high on the charts? How many of these QBs have talent to throw to? Is anyone seeing the games that couldve been won if we didnt screw up a snap for a field goal, or all the dropped passes, or how close we are playing some pretty good teams under our circumstances? Hillis is out for a good chunk of the season so we have no run block and Colt was constantly under pressure and getting hit because of our lack of talent on the Oline and the lack of talent our receivers have to create serparation.I guess noone believes in developing a QB anymore. Its hard to argue with people that can see into the future and already know that RG3 is going to be great and Colt never will be. Sure RG3 looked swell in all of those college games where he could put up 60 points week after week, but how would he have looked in Colts shoes against say the steelers or ravens defense with our current roster? Theres typical browns fans then theres fans like Carlos which I was hoping I couldve found a lot more of when I decided to join this forum.

 

HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! (i think that's how it's spelled)

 

That statement is WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN and nothing but it. People just don't get even a good QB looks like shit when he gets sacked, recievers drop the ball, and Shurmur calls his plays, in a system put together in 4 weeks.

[Guest jparsh]

HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! (i think that's how it's spelled)

 

That statement is WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN and nothing but it. People just don't get even a good QB looks like shit when he gets sacked, recievers drop the ball, and Shurmur calls his plays, in a system put together in 4 weeks.

 

Once again, no argument FOR McCoy, just excuses. I guess you guys don't know how it works. The coaches, Gm's and president have game film. They can see Colt and tell how he's going through his progressions based on his decisions and they can see his accuracy even with drops. The choice the Browns have made to move on from Colt has nothing to do with how bad the team was. They made the choice because Colt just isn't good enough.

[TypicalBrowns]

Once again, no argument FOR McCoy, just excuses. I guess you guys don't know how it works. The coaches, Gm's and president have game film. They can see Colt and tell how he's going through his progressions based on his decisions and they can see his accuracy even with drops. The choice the Browns have made to move on from Colt has nothing to do with how bad the team was. They made the choice because Colt just isn't good enough.

 

Once again, I respectfully disagree. Colt will start next year. You won't believe it when you see it, but he'll be there.

 

And hell yea all that was for McCoy. He isn't giving up on him. He isn't getting cut. He isn't being traded away.

 

Holmgren is saying it's evaluation time, and he's an idiot to think McCoy has shown his true potential. You kidding me? I hate bringing up the lack of offense every time, but the Browns offense blewwww. And it wasn't Colt's fault.

[Carlos]

So in other words you pick and choose which ways you look at things. Kinda like a christian picking out the parts of the bible they agree with and are OK with following.

 

In one breath we have you saying that a bad QB's were the reason the Panthers and Colts did poorly...Ok, I can agree with that. In fact I'm the one that said bad QB's were the cause of their crappy teams. But then in the next breath you try to give some excuses of why Colt isn't the same way. Nobody can justify Colt as a good QB, all they can do is say the team was bad all the way around. I said it before and I'll say it again. He is not, nor will he be judged on the performance of the team. His film will be looked at and his accuracy, decisions, reads and so on and so on will be judged. And apparently it's already been judged. And it was decided that he's not the future QB. So while there is a legit debate for whether or not the Browns will take Griffin or not, and there's a debate whether or not Griffin will be good or not, I'll buy that. But I won't buy anything that defends Colt. He's already been deemed not worthy of being our starting QB, case closed.

 

Deemed unworthy? By whom? By you and I?

[Carlos]

Now I am starting to think we should take at least one QB in every round... maybe one will end up being THE one...

 

 

Sure a line is important, but all those teams have QB's that:

- are pretty fair at reading D's, making line calls and/ or calling audibles;

- have quick releases; and

- are nimble in the pocket.

 

The QB goes far in determining his line's chances of success in any given play... run or pass...

 

 

You mean Painter hasn't absorbed all the positive experience of bench warming behind a great QB on a great offense like Flynn has in GB???

 

 

While I do agree with the "commodity" part. "Proven"? Not so much... It doesn't really go with "growing and learning" does it?

 

 

It's called a F-O-R-U-M... People post O-P-I-N-I-O-N-S... People D-I-S-A-G-R-E-E...

 

 

Seems to me that by the time we got to the last piece, the first would have announced their retirement and we'd have to start all over again.

 

But that's me... and I've never been to GM school either...

 

 

Hopefully we won't "waste" any pick on any position, but if (and, yes, it's a very big if) the #4 could get us Luck or P. Manning, I'm pretty sure I'd "risk" it... Wouldn't you?

 

 

First, Holmgren drafted Colt.... spent a third round pick on him (a fairly valuable pick), so what else would he say? "We're just marking time with Colt, if I had it to do over again..." is not really an option is it?

 

Second, everything, including the Colt comments, is generic GM-speak 101... It's like Paul was sitting next to 'Crash' Davis in the back of the bus on the ride home from Pittsburgh...

 

 

No, everything was NOT "generic GM-speak 101". That tells me you didnt watch the video or just skimmed over it so you could talk shit. Holmgren addressed almost all of the questions he was asked as best he could and talked about personal experience with a number of different QBs as an indicator of the fact that it takes time to find and develop the right one. He even called some of them by name and spoke about his experience having won the bowl before. he talked about his personal mantra on how to build a team. It was anything but generic, it was actually pretty honest and straightforward. Its an insult to just sum up all 75 minutes of the interview and call it generic GM talk. Ignorant.

[Guest jparsh]

Once again, I respectfully disagree. Colt will start next year. You won't believe it when you see it, but he'll be there.

 

And hell yea all that was for McCoy. He isn't giving up on him. He isn't getting cut. He isn't being traded away.

 

Holmgren is saying it's evaluation time, and he's an idiot to think McCoy has shown his true potential. You kidding me? I hate bringing up the lack of offense every time, but the Browns offense blewwww. And it wasn't Colt's fault.

 

 

Care to make a small wager on whether or not Colt will be the starter next year or not? If you're one of the hundreds of people that live out of Cleveland Ohio then we can give each other our paypal accounts to satisfy the bet.

[Zombo]

Yay! Douchebag is back from playing basketball at the Y.

 

Z

[Guest jparsh]

Yay! Douchebag is back from playing basketball at the Y.

 

Z

 

 

Hey look, that pussy that is afraid of his own shadow. How does it feel being a little bitch? I guess it's hard to get into real life fights if your stuck in your moms basement all day. What a nice release the internet is for you people.

[Zombo]

Hey look, that pussy that is afraid of his own shadow. How does it feel being a little bitch? I guess it's hard to get into real life fights if your stuck in your moms basement all day. What a nice release the internet is for you people.

 

Dude, I am the most accessible person on this site. Everyone knows me, I come to the tailgates every year. Like, I said, there's a map.

 

What am I supposed do, apologize for living in paradise while you are freezing your nuts off driving your Kia to the gym?

 

This forum is great for us out-of-towners. If I lived in Cleveland I'd talk to my next door neighbor about the Browns.

 

"Us People" again ... what, Browns fans? What, you've been living here all day 'cept for your three hour rectal exam at the Y.

 

What else can I do for you? Do you need to Skype me or something, will that make you feel better?

 

Z

[Guest jparsh]

Dude, I am the most accessible person on this site. Everyone knows me, I come to the tailgates every year. Like, I said, there's a map.

 

What am I supposed do, apologize for living in paradise while you are freezing your nuts off driving your Kia to the gym?

 

This forum is great for us out-of-towners. If I lived in Cleveland I'd talk to my next door neighbor about the Browns.

 

"Us People" again ... what, Browns fans? What, you've been living here all day 'cept for your three hour rectal exam at the Y.

 

What else can I do for you? Do you need to Skype me or something, will that make you feel better?

 

Z

 

 

Paradise? You mean that hell hole Florida? That place with one of the highest suicide rates in the country. LOL I'm not a pussy who's afraid of a little cold. Let me know when you have the balls to come up here. I'd knock the shit out of you if you had the balls to say something to my face. But I'd bet your one of those "hit me and I'll call the police" type bitches. You're not a clevelander, you have no business talking about Cleveland related issues. If you live anywhere other than Cleveland than shut the fuck about MY city. The cold makes your pussy hurt so you run to Florida.

[Zombo]

Paradise? You mean that hell hole Florida? That place with one of the highest suicide rates in the country. LOL I'm not a pussy who's afraid of a little cold. Let me know when you have the balls to come up here. I'd knock the shit out of you if you had the balls to say something to my face. But I'd bet your one of those "hit me and I'll call the police" type bitches. You're not a clevelander, you have no business talking about Cleveland related issues. If you live anywhere other than Cleveland than shut the fuck about MY city. The cold makes your pussy hurt so you run to Florida.

 

There are more Ohio millionaires in Naples than there are in Cleveland. People that have the means buy homes down here. No one grows up down here hoping to buy a house in Cleveland.

 

Get over yourself, you're a Mama's boy that never left home because you weren't bright enough to get out of the neighborhood so now you call everyone a "pussy" that went on to a better life while you're getting tattoos that you think make you look tough while you ride the bench in your YMCA league.

 

If your "fiance" ever came down her for a week, she'd fuck my brains out and never leave. You could send her a Christmas card every year showing her your newest tattoo and I'd use it for a coaster for my margarita while she sucks a real dick for a change.

 

Zombo

[Guest jparsh]

There are more Ohio millionaires in Naples than there are in Cleveland. People that have the means buy homes down here. No one grows up down here hoping to buy a house in Cleveland.

 

Get over yourself, you're a Mama's boy that never left home because you weren't bright enough to get out of the neighborhood so now you call everyone a "pussy" that went on to a better life while you're getting tattoos that you think make you look tough while you ride the bench in your YMCA league.

 

If your "fiance" ever came down her for a week, she'd fuck my brains out and never leave. You could send her a Christmas card every year showing her your newest tattoo and I'd use it for a coaster for my margarita while she sucks a real dick for a change.

 

Zombo

 

 

A lot of talk over the internet. You feel real safe down in your florida trailer park. And I never wanted to leave, no true Clevelander ever wants to leave. They love it here. So you're not a Browns fan, you're not a Clevelander. And my girl don't like fat guys, sorry. But I'm sure your cousin in the double wide next to yours is all you need. She's a real tiger in the sack I bet.

[Horse Balls]

LMAO, Zombo's killing this guy! Dudes probably got a pimple for his dick and goes down to the Y just to wash the black guys jocks for them. It was nice of his mommy to get him a card at the Y though, LOL.

[Zombo]

A lot of talk over the internet. You feel real safe down in your florida trailer park. And I never wanted to leave, no true Clevelander ever wants to leave. They love it here. So you're not a Browns fan, you're not a Clevelander. And my girl don't like fat guys, sorry. But I'm sure your cousin in the double wide next to yours is all you need. She's a real tiger in the sack I bet.

 

I bet your fiance loves fat dicks, though.

 

Send her down here and see if she ever comes back to wash your shit-stained gym shorts again.

 

Zombo