And After Last Night's Giants Win.....

[miktoxic]

all in all i thought it was a boring super bowl even though it had it's moments of drama. one thing for sure though is i walked away from it believing more and more that we need to target some 5 star defensive players. and so does terry pluto:

 

 

1. For the last few weeks, I'd been hearing about the Browns going defense with the No. 4 pick, focusing on LSU cornerback Morris Clairborne. It's no secret Holmgren/Tom Heckert like lots of good cornerbacks, and Claiborne is the best. The Browns have Joe Haden at one spot, and Sheldon Brown at the other. But Brown could be moving to safety, especially if Mike Adams leaves via free agency. The Browns may be intrigued by the idea of a Haden/Claiborne combination at the corner for several years. That is one of the theories of Dan Shonka from Ourlads.

 

2. But this week, I keep hearing defensive end -- namely Quinton Coples. I wonder how much of this has to do with Couples having a monster week at the Senior Bowl and the fact that Jayme Mitchell proved that he was not a starter last season. They have no one else at the opposite end from Jabaal Sheard. ESPN's Mel Kiper on the North Carolina product: "Bouncing back from a so-so season, he is dominating Senior Bowl practices. The skill set is hard to look past. The physical traits and talent are there; it's more a matter of consistency. Great size and length to hold the edge as a 4-3 defensive end."

 

3. Mitchell played 14 games (13 starts) and had only 1.5 sacks. In his first five games, he had 19 tackles. In the last nine games, 13 tackles. He was just out there much of the time.

 

4. I'm concerned about linebackers, where the Browns have D'Qwell Jackson in the middle. A free agent, he is expected to be back. They like Chris Gocong on one side. Scott Fujita returns on the other side, but he will be 33 in April and has been hurt in the last three seasons. Since coming to the Browns, Fujita has played 30 games and missed 18. They do believe Kaluka Maiava is a capable starter, but I'd love to see a playmaker at one of the outside linebacker spots.

 

5. Some fans may be screaming, "What about the offense?" My guess is they will go offense with the 22nd pick, where they may find a receiver. Of course, it's early February, and a lot can change. But I hear many teams believe a good receiver will be available when the Browns use their No. 22 pick.

 

i love the idea of grabbing either coples or claiborne with our first pick, grabbing a wr at 22. if we draft coples @4 and a receiver @22 maybe we can fanagle a deal to jump back up and get minnifield next. then address linebacker and RT.

 

sure everyone wants 'the guy of the minute' some would say that it's RGlll (he's #15 of BPA on kiper's big board). i say give me coples and sheard coming off the ends and 2 great cover corners and big upgrade at linebacker and we're a top ten defense if not top 5.

 

and we all know what wins championships, don't we AGAIN!!! DEFENSE!!

[MLD Woody]

Sign Mario Williams

 

Sign a WR

 

Draft RGIII/Claiborne

[miktoxic]

RGlll wants to be the number one pick so...............

 

and fuck him anyway.

[MLD Woody]

Geez... lotta hate there

 

And who wouldn't want to be the number one pick?

[Harry Buffalo]

If we draft Coples at #4 he is going to be a huge bust. He is either A: going to be the kind of player who has a monster game one week and then is none existent the next, or B: the kind of person how legit just doesn't has a interest in playing football and will retire after only 2-4 seasons. There are several DE in the draft that are not only more talented the Coples but who actually have a consistent drive to want to play football.

[miktoxic]

And who wouldn't want to be the number one pick?

 

don't hate the guy, just don't want him as our number 4 pick. if he did a brady quinn swan dive and was there at 18 sure trade a pick to get him. but once again, he's not a position of need.

 

and about him being number one, it's probably more his agent and 'peoples' that are putting out there in front of every camera and journalist who recognizes him. wants to be in indy.

[miktoxic]

If we draft Coples at #4 he is going to be a huge bust. He is either A: going to be the kind of player who has a monster game one week and then is none existent the next, or B: the kind of person how legit just doesn't has a interest in playing football and will retire after only 2-4 seasons. There are several DE in the draft that are not only more talented the Coples but who actually have a consistent drive to want to play football.

who?

[jrb12711]

Anyway, I think what the Giants/Patriots have shown is that the two most vital positions in football are quarterback and Defensive end in that order. Being able to put good pressure without blitzing in pivotal and starts with a dominant DE. Sheard has some real promise, but obviously Mitchell isn't a starter. Offense should be the number 1 priority for the browns, and I think the FO guys know that. Whether they think Colt is actually the guy and get Richardson/Blackmon trade back for a WR, that still has to be the first pick. However, I'd love to see a defensive end at the 22 slot because this class is deep. Ingram is rising fast apparently but Mercilous (sp?) from Illinois looks like he would easily be there. Getting one of those guys and assuming they don't bust would give us a great, actual capable front line.

[miktoxic]

yeah and if it was just as easy to sit back in the pocket all day and throw the ball to someone that is wide open with no 300+ behemoths coming at you trying to break your neck, you and rich4eagle would be hall of famers. or is that flamers?

 

as far as i'm concerned everyone on the browns is shit. the only decent players we have are a couple of left overs from mangini and the only good ones are the ones heckert picked. sure both super bowl teams have better qbs and wrs than we do. both have better OLs. the pass rush by the giants made the difference. imagine playing four guys on the line and everyone else back into coverage and still being able to sack the opponents qb? i think every browns fan would enjoy that. how about a running game where a guy can get a block and maybe break a tackle for a 40 yd td run? wouldn't mind seeing that either, would you?

 

well it ain't happening anytime soon and the qb might be a position of need but he's nowhere near the top.

[The Gipper]

RGlll wants to be the number one pick so...............

 

and fuck him anyway.

 

I am sure there are 300 people that "want" to be the #1 pick....but why in hell does he think that he would be picked ahead of Andrew Luck.

 

I hope he is #1....and that Luck falls to us at #4....though I don't know why either the Rams or the Viking would not take Luck.....who cares if they both have 1st round QBs on their roster.

 

Luck is the ONLY guy that I would be willing for the Browns to give their #4 and #22 to trade up for.

[The Gipper]

If we draft Coples at #4 he is going to be a huge bust. He is either A: going to be the kind of player who has a monster game one week and then is none existent the next, or B: the kind of person how legit just doesn't has a interest in playing football and will retire after only 2-4 seasons. There are several DE in the draft that are not only more talented the Coples but who actually have a consistent drive to want to play football.

 

Are you saying: Hello Kameron Wimbley part two?

[The Gipper]

Yep, spoken and thought just like a typical numbskull Browns fan.

 

Ah, who was it that made a spectacular catch and almost immediately put the Giants in FG range? Oh, yeah, I remember, it was their Left Tackle.

 

Offense wins championships. POINTS. TOUCHDOWNS. All the shit that shit players like Colt MCCoy, Hillis, Hardesty, Joe Thomas and the rest of the Browns team think are idiotic and unneccessary to winning.

 

Hey, go ahead, pass on RG3 and take some useless linemen.

 

Idiots!

 

UHM, it was the Giants defense that won them that Championship yesterday. Did you watch the game?

[choco]

Eli to manningham....in the clutch?

[BrownIndian]

After Last Night's Giants Win I have noticed that:

 

1. The Giants do not have 1 first round Offensive Linesman in their roster while we have 2.

 

2. The Giants had 3 awesome WR's while we have 0.5.

 

3. The Giants have 2 great Strong and fast RB's while we have 1 strong RB and 1 fast RB.

 

4. If Tom Brady had thrown the hail mary a little higher, the catch would have been made and the Patriots would have won. Also if Bradshaw had run the TD in the previous play, It would have given Brady more seconds to do it.

 

5. From a Browns draft perspective - It is absolutely vital to draft the BPA to fill in needs and make upgrades - And that means NOT drafting an Offensive linesman in 1st round to shield the Right side.

[miktoxic]

Eli to manningham....in the clutch?

 

with time to check his progressions...time to throw: 4 secs without scrambling around like a chicken with his head cut off.

 

the other positional guys are there to let the skill position get their looks or to hold back the opposing teams line. yeah clutch catch. we could say the hernandez drop was a clutch drop too.

[Kosar_For_President]

[BrownIndian]

 

That was funny ..... Maybe not if i was the owner.

[ballpeen]

Mik.....it wouldn't bother me is we went D.

 

IMO the D is closer to being a decent unit. A few more top picks with the right guys might make it a darn good unit. Nothing wrong with that.

 

There is something to be said for being very good on at least one side of the ball, and if your team is going to be that polar, it is probably better to be excellent at defense. IMO it is easier for a O to have a bad day then a D having a bad day. Defense is largely hustle and desire, and those are two things that should never "slump".

 

 

In other words, I think it is a better bet the D is going to keep you in a game than is a O going out and outscoring the opponent every week.

 

 

Go with the odds. Build the D. A corner, backer, and DE and we have a D that can push people around.

[Jason J]

well it ain't happening anytime soon and the qb might be a position of need but he's nowhere near the top.

 

Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.

 

If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.

 

The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.

 

So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?

 

That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?

 

If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.

 

They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.

 

-jj

[Harry Buffalo]

who?

 

Ingram and Curry both had good weeks during the Senior Bowl and both played on a more consistent level the whole week and can be had farther back in the 1st round. There is also Mercilus from Illinois who put up big sack numbers against great Big 10 o-lines, unlike Coples who put up smaller numbers against weaker competition.

 

 

Are you saying: Hello Kameron Wimbley part two?

 

Yes.

[miktoxic]

Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.

 

If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.

 

The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.

 

So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?

 

That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?

 

If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.

 

They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.

 

-jj

 

to each his own but i don't think it will happen.

 

are we going to make the playoffs if we draft rglll and a top 5 wr next year? NO. will we make a good defense even better by drafting cb, de and lb? YES.

 

listen we ain't making the playoffs or the super bowl next year. if there is a chance to make one side of the browns. offense or defense, complete by just adding 3 picks then why not do it? the other picks (not in any order BTW) wr, rt and a little scat-back. at least the team is 80% complete. then fill-in the skill positions starting with the 9th pick in next year's draft.

 

OR

 

we could do it your way, draft RGlll, have him scramble around while the right side of the line is getting over-run, get smacked left and right and turn him into the next tim couch. scramble/run? lord i hope so cuz he won't have any protection, there won't be any wide receivers open and by the half we'll be down by three touchdowns. way to build an org. twinkle toes.

 

i hope the redskins are gullible enough to believe the hype on this guy and trade us their spot and another pick.

[Jason J]

to each his own but i don't think it will happen.

 

are we going to make the playoffs if we draft rglll and a top 5 wr next year? NO. will we make a good defense even better by drafting cb, de and lb? YES.

 

listen we ain't making the playoffs or the super bowl next year. if there is a chance to make one side of the browns. offense or defense, complete by just adding 3 picks then why not do it? the other picks (not in any order BTW) wr, rt and a little scat-back. at least the team is 80% complete. then fill-in the skill positions starting with the 9th pick in next year's draft.

 

OR

 

we could do it your way, draft RGlll, have him scramble around while the right side of the line is getting over-run, get smacked left and right and turn him into the next tim couch. scramble/run? lord i hope so cuz he won't have any protection, there won't be any wide receivers open and by the half we'll be down by three touchdowns. way to build an org. twinkle toes.

 

i hope the redskins are gullible enough to believe the hype on this guy and trade us their spot and another pick.

 

To answer your question... well you've got a much better chance than you do without him.

 

But your plan is to make sure the Browns don't score enough points to pick any lower than 10th next season? I don't get it. You can make the Browns defense as good as you want, they're still going to lose 10 games and score under 200 points.

 

To abuse a metaphor, you're essentially saying, forget the car, get the best pit crew we can... we'll still lose... just not by quite as much.

 

-jj

[Taco918]

to each his own but i don't think it will happen.

 

are we going to make the playoffs if we draft rglll and a top 5 wr next year? NO. will we make a good defense even better by drafting cb, de and lb? YES.

 

listen we ain't making the playoffs or the super bowl next year. if there is a chance to make one side of the browns. offense or defense, complete by just adding 3 picks then why not do it? the other picks (not in any order BTW) wr, rt and a little scat-back. at least the team is 80% complete. then fill-in the skill positions starting with the 9th pick in next year's draft.

 

OR

 

we could do it your way, draft RGlll, have him scramble around while the right side of the line is getting over-run, get smacked left and right and turn him into the next tim couch. scramble/run? lord i hope so cuz he won't have any protection, there won't be any wide receivers open and by the half we'll be down by three touchdowns. way to build an org. twinkle toes.

 

i hope the redskins are gullible enough to believe the hype on this guy and trade us their spot and another pick.

 

Your making it sound like if we do draft RG3 we're just going to forfeit the rest of the draft or something. If we do take RG3 at 4 I'm sure we'll spend other picks on the right side and another WR at least. We have plenty of picks this year and if we take a franchise QB early I'm pretty confident the front office is going to do as much as possible to get the necessary talent around him so that he can succeed.

[miktoxic]

To answer your question... well you've got a much better chance than you do without him.

 

But your plan is to make sure the Browns don't score enough points to pick any lower than 10th next season? I don't get it. You can make the Browns defense as good as you want, they're still going to lose 10 games and score under 200 points.

 

To abuse a metaphor, you're essentially saying, forget the car, get the best pit crew we can... we'll still lose... just not by quite as much.

 

-jj

 

no, i don't like nascar so i don't pay any attention to anything that comes from it.

 

here's my point (as i've stated many times before). best case scenario iun my mind as far as the upcoming draft, we trade down, gain another 2nd round pick and still grab claiborne or some other impact defensive player in a posiiton of need. and that's a term you will hear me speak about throughout this thread: position of need. the last couple of years we could have won at least three games more than we did. it wasn't colt's fault that the jets just threw a sideline pass to (whoever) and we missed a game saving tackle. it's not colt's fault that we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone being 2 yards out. there is plenty of fault o go around.

 

if all the pieces were in place and colt was our qb and we won ten games would we be having this conversation. all the blame falls onto the qb. how about the tackle that missed blocking the opponent's left side DE all game long? how about the wr who couldn't outrun a turtle and if he did get open dropped the ball?

 

we are going NOWHERE next year. add to the D make them top 5. add someone on the OL that can handle a dt/de on the right side. a wr and a speed back. i don't care how you do it....FA or draft. but since we are going NOWHERE why waste the top pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) qb who's already been hurt once in his career and sat out most of a season, plays in a spread offense and is just the 'man of the minute'?

 

add those pieces above and see what happens. if colt shit s the bed, we can all suck on barkley's balls or who ever other man-child people will be salivating over next year.

[VaporTrail]

Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.

 

If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.

 

The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.

 

So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?

 

That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?

 

If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.

 

They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.

 

-jj

 

1) See what happened with Tim Couch.

 

2) I think people are making him out to be the next Cam Newton. I don't think he will be. He's fast and has a strong arm, but he's also only 6'2".

 

I think if we get RG3, we sit him a year until we can surround him with talent and not hang him out to dry like we did with Tim Ouch.

[Jason J]

no, i don't like nascar so i don't pay any attention to anything that comes from it.

 

here's my point (as i've stated many times before). best case scenario iun my mind as far as the upcoming draft, we trade down, gain another 2nd round pick and still grab claiborne or some other impact defensive player in a posiiton of need. and that's a term you will hear me speak about throughout this thread: position of need. the last couple of years we could have won at least three games more than we did. it wasn't colt's fault that the jets just threw a sideline pass to (whoever) and we missed a game saving tackle. it's not colt's fault that we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone being 2 yards out. there is plenty of fault o go around.

 

if all the pieces were in place and colt was our qb and we won ten games would we be having this conversation. all the blame falls onto the qb. how about the tackle that missed blocking the opponent's left side DE all game long? how about the wr who couldn't outrun a turtle and if he did get open dropped the ball?

 

we are going NOWHERE next year. add to the D make them top 5. add someone on the OL that can handle a dt/de on the right side. a wr and a speed back. i don't care how you do it....FA or draft. but since we are going NOWHERE why waste the top pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) qb who's already been hurt once in his career and sat out most of a season, plays in a spread offense and is just the 'man of the minute'?

 

add those pieces above and see what happens. if colt shit s the bed, we can all suck on barkley's balls or who ever other man-child people will be salivating over next year.

 

 

I understand your point. I just disagree. And, by your own example, you fix the defense, and win 3 more games. Great. Now you're 12-20 over two seasons.

 

And I suspect, if the Browns were equipped to be winning 10 games with Colt McCoy at quarterback, it would be beginning to be obvious that he's the weak link. So... let's just say, possibly. It was pretty obvious that the quarterback was more of a hindrance than a help the last time they won 10 games, so I would be less than surprised if folks were looking to move him out.

 

Then again, they haven't won 10 games. They haven't won half that. So what are we talking about really?

 

First, let me state that I'm not a quarterback guy. I haven't once suggested the Browns draft #1 quarterback since their return. Even in 1999, I was all for drafting Ricky Williams and Shaun King. So, what do I know. Although, I still contend that King was every bit as effective as a pro as Couch was. That said, my interest in RGIII has nothing to do with wanting to replace Colt McCoy with whoever is the next best quarterback out there. What I'm saying is, based on what I see with my own eyes, with the exception of Andrew Luck, this is the best QB prospect to enter the league since the Browns '99. And, coincidentally, the Browns have a chance to draft him.

 

I don't believe for one second that Griffin is a "man of the minute." At least not in my opinion. I don't have a minute for him to be the man of. I've only ever graded 2 quarterbacks worthy of a top 5 pick.

 

There are no guarantees in the draft. There's no way you can say that adding a couple of draft picks makes the Browns defense top 5 and make it sound anything like a fact. So the reason you "waste a draft pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) quarterback, is that he is the best player on the board after Luck. He is an immediate upgrade at a position where the team is sorely lacking. And, save the fact that he's in the same draft as Andrew Luck, he's the best pure passer to enter the draft in more than a decade. That's why.

 

Obviously, we're of different minds on the idea. But, I just don't get this sort of 5 year plan that starts with building up the defense and waits to get a quarterback, when there's one of the best players ever sitting right in front of you.

 

That's where we disagree. I'm a believer that this kid is a once in decade kind of talent. And when is the right time to add someone of that stature?

The second he becomes available to you.

 

-jj

[JPPT1974]

That was funny ..... Maybe not if i was the owner.

 

That was so cute. I love Betty White!

[Jason J]

1) See what happened with Tim Couch.

 

2) I think people are making him out to be the next Cam Newton. I don't think he will be. He's fast and has a strong arm, but he's also only 6'2".

 

I think if we get RG3, we sit him a year until we can surround him with talent and not hang him out to dry like we did with Tim Ouch.

 

With all due respect, Tim Couch is not Robert Griffin III. He's not even in the conversation.

 

And I don't think he's the next Cam Newton. He's better than Cam Newton... by a wide margin.

 

-jj

[DawginIT]

Sign Mario Williams

 

Sign a WR

 

Draft RGIII/Claiborne

Trade back and take Claiborne/Richardson or whoever is best available. Then take a WR/DE/LB at 22. Sign Manningham for sure.

[MLD Woody]

Trade back and take Claiborne/Richardson or whoever is best available. Then take a WR/DE/LB at 22. Sign Manningham for sure.

 

Browns sign Manningham and I am the first one on the website ordering a jersey. It'll go well with my #17 Edwards jersey