Let's Revisit When The Giants 'sold The Farm' For Eli Manning

[choco]

Carolina didnt switch offenses!

really? so, they didn't switch offenses when rivera took over last year? so, tell us about the process of rivera adopting john fox's system (who btw, also changed his system to suit tebow).

 

you better not read this then -> http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824d289c/article/newton-tebow-prove-spread-option-will-work-in-the-nfl

 

im not wasting anymore time just to prove a point thats so blatantly wrong.

 

 

the browns could've easily been 8-8 9-7 this year,

they also could have easily lost 15.

 

Don't listen to Ghoolie's rants

ive had ghoolie on ignore for over a year. i dont need his opinion to see this team sucks.

We are fine, and will only get better.

delusions of grandeur? yes, we're fine....being 4-12 after 2 years of the savior, showing no offensive improvement (wasnt that why mangini was fired) from a bunch of offensive gurus? oh hell yeah, everythings fine....

for once in a long time the organization isnt trying to find the quickest way to "become in contention",

oh, so taking 2 years to evaluate the talent on the team was fine for you? ok then...

they've tried that before, and it hasn't worked.

and ya know why? we've missed on almost all our draft picks since 99.

only failed miserably and has caused the team to "rebuild" for like 3 years now.

how long you been a fan? i dont think you grasp the gravity of whats happening. 3 years? your out to lunch....

 

CAR from 1-15 to 6-10, proves right there even with the pieces together, it takes freakin time.

what? pieces together? are you seriously saying that a 1-15 had the pieces together? where do you come up with this shit?

 

know what...dont bother. your next reply could very well be even more devoid of rational thought.

[Tour2ma]

Don't fall in love with one guy!

 

That's the key!

 

RG3-2-da...

What would be too much to offer for RG in your mind? Where would you draw the line?

[The Gipper]

Larry, we only have to give up a 3rd next year.....hardly a franchise wrecker since the others are extra picks.

 

 

 

Russ, the franchise wrecker to me is giving up our second first round pick.

[Mark O]

[

 

 

 

Russ, the franchise wrecker to me is giving up our second first round pick.

 

 

If by some miracle, that's all we have to give up, then I'm good with it. I don't think there's a chance that we can move up to the #2 only giving up the 4 and 22 but maybe if Manning goes to Miami and Washington signs Flynn and we'll know where both of those guys end up long before the draft.

[TypicalBrowns]

really? so, they didn't switch offenses when rivera took over last year? so, tell us about the process of rivera adopting john fox's system (who btw, also changed his system to suit tebow).

 

you better not read this then -> http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824d289c/article/newton-tebow-prove-spread-option-will-work-in-the-nfl

 

im not wasting anymore time just to prove a point thats so blatantly wrong.

 

 

 

they also could have easily lost 15.

 

 

ive had ghoolie on ignore for over a year. i dont need his opinion to see this team sucks.

 

delusions of grandeur? yes, we're fine....being 4-12 after 2 years of the savior, showing no offensive improvement (wasnt that why mangini was fired) from a bunch of offensive gurus? oh hell yeah, everythings fine....

 

oh, so taking 2 years to evaluate the talent on the team was fine for you? ok then...

 

and ya know why? we've missed on almost all our draft picks since 99.

 

how long you been a fan? i dont think you grasp the gravity of whats happening. 3 years? your out to lunch....

 

 

what? pieces together? are you seriously saying that a 1-15 had the pieces together? where do you come up with this shit?

 

know what...dont bother. your next reply could very well be even more devoid of rational thought.

my goodness.

 

RG3 will not be in Cleveland, doesnt take much "rational thought" to figure that.

 

"but he's the next mike vick/peyton manning/ben roethlesberger/arnold schwarzennegger lets trade every early pick we have for him and not fill much needed holes with starter caliber players"

 

there is no please in you, we both are stubborn asses who wont budge on our opinion so lets leave it at that.

[hoorta]

That's the key!

 

RG3-2-da...

What would be too much to offer for RG in your mind? Where would you draw the line?

 

Going by the value chart- the "fair market value" of moving up from #4 to #2 is- our #4, #22, + the high fourth rounder. Throw in next year's second or third rounder for the "quarterback premium". Anything more is overpaying. That's my limit- who knows what H&H's is- or if they're even interested in Griffin? OTOH if they're absolutely convinced RGIII is one of the top 5 prospects in the last 10 years- it behooves them to do whatever is necessary to put him in a Browns uniform. So if my original scenario is the way it goes down, we essentially traded Julio Jones for RGIII- which should shut up Ghoolie.

 

FWIW, if the Redskins offer their 1,2,3 this year and a first next year- it has about equal trade value for RGIII. What will make it dicey is the 'Skins have players they can throw into the mix if they want Griffin badly enough- and they have the room under the cap to take the hit. We can't afford to give up one of our core young players like Haden or Sheard. (At least I wouldn't.)

 

I'm with Mark O hoping Manning lands in Washington- that takes the major competition out of the equation. Miami would have to give up even more to make a deal with the Rams, and I doubt St Louis would be interested in moving down to #8, they'd have to deal away some of the extra picks to move back up to get Blackmon or Kalil.

[brownfish]

The 2003 giants were a much better team than our browns...from 2001 - 2003 they just wanted Fassels head and the players were paid off midway through the season...they were done with their alcoholic QB and they just threw in the towel in 2002. They were a top 5 team from from 1999 - 2002...like others have said they had nearly all the pieces for a dynasty, and then it just went south.

 

The browns are no where near a complete team as they were, so it makes no sense to waste more than 2 early round draft picks on him. If we can get him for our #4 #22 a 6,7 and a 3 next year... that's fair...but for #4, #22, #37 and next years #12, #39...absolutely not

[BendMeOver]

In terms of draft strategy, the best thing the Browns can do is get RG3. If you could have gotten RG3 with the #4 pick, it would have been a great draft selection. The Redskins will push you to overspend to get him, but the Redskins can't outbid you. I think the reports of what the Redskins are willing to pay are exaggerated. Worst case scenario is you give up the #4 pick, the #22 and next year's second round pick. With the number #4 pick overall, the Rams can still (in all likelihood) pick up their guy (who I believe is Blackmon). More importantly, if the Rams drop to #5, they most likely lose out on their guy (Blackmon), whom the Browns will probably select.

 

As I predicted, the Steelers are gambling with Mike Wallace. He is a top reciever in the league who still can improve and get better. The Steelers will pay dearly for making him available, and the pain will be even greater for us if Cleveland lands him. Based on all statistical evidence currently available, getting Wallace is better than getting Blackmon. If the Browns get Wallace before the Rams deal their trade, all hell will break lose. (Which will make for alot of exciting draft drama).

 

The Redskins may stand pat as the Steelers will threaten to take Blackmon, or anyone but RG3. The Rams may be unable to trade back, if that's the guy they really want. The Steelers won't need to consider trading back until draft day if Blackmon is off the boards. Further, the Redskins can gamble and let RG3 fall to them, cause none of the 3 teams above them are going to be interested in RG3. However, it opens up the trading possibilities for the later first round teams (8-12) to move up via a cheaper trade with the Vikings/Steelers than with the Rams.

[Mr. T]

Football Futures has the mock draft with Browns picking Rg3 at #4

 

No need in worrying about trading away draft picks if this holds true.

[RGIII to da C-L-E]

That's the key!

 

RG3-2-da...

What would be too much to offer for RG in your mind? Where would you draw the line?

Three 1st would be too much only because we have #4 and #22 pick this year!! If we add a 2013 2nd, Washington would have to add three 1st + more to beat that!

[The Gipper]

If by some miracle, that's all we have to give up, then I'm good with it. I don't think there's a chance that we can move up to the #2 only giving up the 4 and 22 but maybe if Manning goes to Miami and Washington signs Flynn and we'll know where both of those guys end up long before the draft.

 

I am not willing to make the trade if we have to give up #22.

 

In the words of G.H.W. Bush: "Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent".

[FSG]

Why do you even think that RGIII is going to be that good a QB?

 

Media hype is surrounding the guy. But he was a one year wonder at a football program that was unremarkable. Granted so was Ben Roethlisberger, but Ben is 6'5" and bigger. Plus, RGIII specializes in throwing the deep ball, is remarkably fast and had great interviews (which has prompted the hype).

 

But the days of QBs succeeding with the deep ball are not in this era. This is a short passing era with a premium on accuracy - Bernie Kosar was slow, had an average deep ball - but was amazingly accurate. He'd be perfect for this era - but that is moot.

 

The Browns have already passed on Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rogers, future Hall of Famers. They had chances at talented but still developing QBs like Josh Freeman and Andy Dalton. They made no attempt to acquire FAs Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Mike Vick or trade for Matt Cassell or Matt Schaub, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez were available for the taking, although they can be considered products of the system more than others, but with 2 Conference Championship Games apiece no one can deny have been successful. The only agressive QB move made since Couch was drafted was Quinn (Couch career was cut short because he was brutalized by hits and Quinn got no chance at all).

 

Roethlisberger can be considered anywhere between the 3rd and 6th best QB in the league -- and have 3 Super Bowl appearances and a number of NFL records to his credit. Joe Thomas is the best LT in football. Every single time, the 3rd-6th best QB has more impact on winning than the best LT, or the best CB, G, TE, or NT. I get the idea about getting RGIII, but a guy with no proven ability to consistently be accurate at throwing between 5-20 yards, no does anyone know is mental toughness when it comes down to converting that tough 3rd and 8. My point is, do you want to sacrifice all those draft picks where you can stack up a team and get a better QB in the future, one that can walk into a loaded situation like Ben and Rogers did. Or do you want to go after a short, small deep ball specialist with a pedigree of Akali Smith or Jeff Blake?

[RGIII to da C-L-E]

Why do you even think that RGIII is going to be that good a QB?

 

Media hype is surrounding the guy. But he was a one year wonder at a football program that was unremarkable. Granted so was Ben Roethlisberger, but Ben is 6'5" and bigger. Plus, RGIII specializes in throwing the deep ball, is remarkably fast and had great interviews (which has prompted the hype).

 

But the days of QBs succeeding with the deep ball are not in this era. This is a short passing era with a premium on accuracy - Bernie Kosar was slow, had an average deep ball - but was amazingly accurate. He'd be perfect for this era - but that is moot.

 

The Browns have already passed on Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rogers, future Hall of Famers. They had chances at talented but still developing QBs like Josh Freeman and Andy Dalton. They made no attempt to acquire FAs Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Mike Vick or trade for Matt Cassell or Matt Schaub, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez were available for the taking, although they can be considered products of the system more than others, but with 2 Conference Championship Games apiece no one can deny have been successful. The only agressive QB move made since Couch was drafted was Quinn (Couch career was cut short because he was brutalized by hits and Quinn got no chance at all).

 

Roethlisberger can be considered anywhere between the 3rd and 6th best QB in the league -- and have 3 Super Bowl appearances and a number of NFL records to his credit. Joe Thomas is the best LT in football. Every single time, the 3rd-6th best QB has more impact on winning than the best LT, or the best CB, G, TE, or NT. I get the idea about getting RGIII, but a guy with no proven ability to consistently be accurate at throwing between 5-20 yards, no does anyone know is mental toughness when it comes down to converting that tough 3rd and 8. My point is, do you want to sacrifice all those draft picks where you can stack up a team and get a better QB in the future, one that can walk into a loaded situation like Ben and Rogers did. Or do you want to go after a short, small deep ball specialist with a pedigree of Akali Smith or Jeff Blake?

You are the worst type of fan - the type who is blatantly uninformed only to hide behind sweeping generalizations to mask their lack of knowledge.

 

But if we draft RGIII and he wins, you'd be the first to cheer like you're some sorta of Superfan who always believed in him from the start.

 

No thank you to fans like you.

[hoorta]

Why do you even think that RGIII is going to be that good a QB?

 

Media hype is surrounding the guy. But he was a one year wonder at a football program that was unremarkable. Granted so was Ben Roethlisberger, but Ben is 6'5" and bigger. Plus, RGIII specializes in throwing the deep ball, is remarkably fast and had great interviews (which has prompted the hype).

 

But the days of QBs succeeding with the deep ball are not in this era. This is a short passing era with a premium on accuracy - Bernie Kosar was slow, had an average deep ball - but was amazingly accurate. He'd be perfect for this era - but that is moot.

 

The Browns have already passed on Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rogers, future Hall of Famers. They had chances at talented but still developing QBs like Josh Freeman and Andy Dalton. They made no attempt to acquire FAs Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Mike Vick or trade for Matt Cassell or Matt Schaub, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez were available for the taking, although they can be considered products of the system more than others, but with 2 Conference Championship Games apiece no one can deny have been successful. The only agressive QB move made since Couch was drafted was Quinn (Couch career was cut short because he was brutalized by hits and Quinn got no chance at all).

 

Roethlisberger can be considered anywhere between the 3rd and 6th best QB in the league -- and have 3 Super Bowl appearances and a number of NFL records to his credit. Joe Thomas is the best LT in football. Every single time, the 3rd-6th best QB has more impact on winning than the best LT, or the best CB, G, TE, or NT. I get the idea about getting RGIII, but a guy with no proven ability to consistently be accurate at throwing between 5-20 yards, no does anyone know is mental toughness when it comes down to converting that tough 3rd and 8. My point is, do you want to sacrifice all those draft picks where you can stack up a team and get a better QB in the future, one that can walk into a loaded situation like Ben and Rogers did. Or do you want to go after a short, small deep ball specialist with a pedigree of Akali Smith or Jeff Blake?

 

Second things first- what do you mean Quinn got no chance? He got enough chances to prove he sucked. And if you need any more proof of that- he can't even beat out Tim Tebow in Denver- who happens to be a really lousy quarterback.

 

Your other points are well taken. That road did work for the Steelers. But do you really want to go through another crap season going 6-10 so we have yet another top 10 pick to have a realistic shot at a qb that won't even likely grade out as high as Griffin? (I don't- I'd rather go through a crap season knowing we have the key piece of the puzzle in place) Or do you want to hope we get lucky and find another Breese, Marino, or Brady lower in the draft? (The odds aren't in our favor) There's the Madden Curse that hit Hillis- there's also the Heisman Jinx- I'm hoping it bypasses RGIII. It did Eddie George.

 

 

BTW, Griffin was NOT a one year wonder.... RGIII career stats.... Had one off year when he was injured.

 

There's a YouTube of his game against Oklahoma floating around, and I'd check out how he throws his slant patterns and quick outs. The majority are accurate, and with a zip McCoy can only dream about. If you like, fast forward to the last play of the game and tell me if Colt can make a throw like that. Speaking of Colt, one of the reasons he was getting pulverized last year is teams don't respect his ability to throw deep. Yeah- we don't know if RGIII can read an NFL defense- but I'm afraid the same can be said for Andrew Luck.

 

Finally, Griffin is short and small- and exactly the same height & weight as Bret Favre. Joe Montana checked in at the same height, and 15 pounds lighter. Warren Moon was a whole inch taller, the same weight, and managed to last 17 NFL seasons, not counting the additional six in the CFL. Please put the short, small, argument to rest- the combine conclusively proved he's big enough to get it done.

[calfoxwc]

Okay... first of all, this:

 

"I am not willing to make the trade if we have to give up #22.

 

In the words of G.H.W. Bush: "Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent". GIP

******************************************

Second of all, surely, seems to me, that there are ulterior motives for someone wanting us to dish out three number ones, and etc etc etc etc,

 

whatever it takes, to get RGIII. Seriously? Can't be. Is it because he's black? I only say that because if the Colts pick RGIII, would you think the same

 

about Luck? If not, have a long quiet talk with yourself.

 

Is it because you aren't a Browns fan, and you want the Browns to kill there chances of fixing several weaknesses so you can laugh ?

 

Or, do you not understand it's a team game. Now, come on. I would LOVE the Browns to nab RGIII OR LUCK with their #4.... I believe in

 

the Browns FO if they make a trade. But that trade WILL NOT be decimating the growth of the Browns in the draft overall. Seriously.