Reasons why I hate The Hiring Of Mangini

[Sony Reed]

I see that many fans here seem to be happy with the naming of Eric Mangini has the new coach, I have heard everything from his 2nd job to what Belichek did with his 2nd job, but people ask yourself are you really thrilled that Eric Mangini is the best we could hire

 

1. Eric Mangini had 2 winning seasons in Ny and made the playoffs one season, one season was the benefit of playing a last place schedule were the Jets went 9-7, the following year with no a schedule of softies Mangini coached the Jets to a 4-12 season and then last season after the Jets spent more money than any NFL team sigining free agent for Mangini he takes all this talent to a 9-7 record ( Which thanks to the Bills ) should have been 8-8 and lost games to the 49ers and Seahawks and a game with a playoff spot on the line to the Dolphins.

 

2. For all the research concerning coaches getting it with there second coaching stint, the recored also proves with coaches being hired for there 2nd job in less than a year from there previous position, no one of those coaches had a winning record at there 2nd coaching job.

 

3. Eric Mangini runs the exact same defensive system as RAC, no blitzing until you have the lead, keep everything in front of you, 2 gap read N react non agressive 3-4 defense, seems I kept reading all these post about wanting a aggressive defense and we won't be getting that with Mangini.

 

4. Hiring Rob Ryan has a defensive coordinator, this is a guy who defenses were ranked below the Browns, his defenses were ranked 27, 22, 3 ( only because the Raiders Offense was terrible) 27th and 30th, and this is a guy people want to get excited about, this guy will make you wish Mel Tucker was still the D coordinator or Todd Granthem. Also he was not running the defense Al Davis wanted for all the people who like to use that as a excuse.

 

5. What has Eric Mangini did in the NFL? This is a guy who is not even a .500 head coach and I am supposed to be excited

 

6. Eric Mangini's Jets CHOKED down the stretch, blame Farve all you want, but Farve does not play defense

 

7. How much can you trust a guy who is a Rat..........Notice all the guys dropping out of being interested in being the GM here to work with Mangini

 

8. If Mangini was that hot of a coach, why were no other teams trying to interview him

 

IMO We have Romeo Crennel #2 here

 

Looks like Randy Lerner never learned from his last mistake with RAC and Savage

 

 

[Gips]

Most of us thought romeo/savage was the dawning of a new era in cleveland..it wasnt.

 

A lot of us didnt like belichick when he was in cleveland...imo he sucked but look at him now..

 

Who was this unknown college assistant coach at 3 or 4 campuses that became air forces head coach then a defensive coordinator as a no namer..bill parcells of course..

 

The real problem with the browns organization has been that over past 10 seasons there has never been a solid structure formed or built..carmin policy was the ultimate failure and its been downhill from there..with one inexperienced coach and crap gm after another..

 

Mangini brings 3 years of nfl experience/structure building/culture to cleveland..he may not be the big name but he will bring much needed discipline, identity ,toughness and a sound base structure to the browns..lerner has the right idea..

 

Big name gms already have their coach in mind and thats why they withdrew..i didnt like piolis choice at all to begin with and mckay likely will stay put..

 

Shanahan as a coach and gm would be a bigger gamble than mangini/whoever in my humble opinion..

 

We have to build discipline,toughness,identity,a floorplan for success and a FO structure and a cooperative organization that works together from the owner down we have to have these things before we should concern ourselves with going 16-0 and then winning the superbowl..

 

I think lerner does realize his and his fathers mistakes and is now involving himself as he should and must do to turn it around..i like the way he is doing this proccess...there isnt very many big names floating around and these few name guys are being dicks about it..they were only using the browns as leverage because randy was desperate and would make a generous offer they could then get a matching offer where they wanted to go..

 

Lerner took mangini off the market fast otherwise he would have become a hot commodity once the big names are through playing their games and wasting everyones valuable time..

 

We have no choice but to hope mangini works out and if he doesnt that lerner acts fast to replace him im betting thats the case..

 

I think mangini brings exactly what our players need to the browns..the free ride is over they have to produce now or its bye bye..maybe some real ball players will want to come to cleveland again after a couple of years with a solid system in place..

[Zombo]

3. Eric Mangini runs the exact same defensive system as RAC, no blitzing until you have the lead, keep everything in front of you, 2 gap read N react non agressive 3-4 defense, seems I kept reading all these post about wanting a aggressive defense and we won't be getting that with Mangini.

 

And together, they won three Super Bowls running that defense.

 

I don't think problem with our defense has been the system ... it's been lack of discipline and lack of talent.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shaun Rogers was our first Pro Bowler from that side of the ball since Jamir Miller made it once eight years ago.

 

Our linebackers have not been good.

 

Nobody in our back 8 got one single All-Pro vote this year.

 

Phil Savage didn't get fired because he was building a dynasty over here.

 

You know why I'm glad we got Mangini ... because I was pissed when the Jets got him. We got Romeo and I was never comfortable with it, he was a coach that had "put in his dues" and as DC of the SB winning team, it was his "turn" to get a head coaching job, and we were up.

 

The next year, the Jets grab the young, brilliant guy that was said to be the "brains" behind the operation and I'm thinking ... great, they get the young hotshot and we get the old softie that was due a promotion. We missed it by a year.

 

Now we get the young, smart, hotshot, but with three years experience in the biggest pressure cooker in sports: New York.

 

I am totally onboard with this. And Rob Ryan was a rising star before he went to Aldavisland ... but I do remember watching a Raiders - Steelers game a couple years ago where the Raiders had NO offense and won the game by tormenting Big Ben and causing turnovers.

 

Mangini beat the Steelers, Ryan beat the Steelers, Belichick has eaten their playoff lunches with this same defense ... when was the last time we beat the Steelers again?

 

I'm just totally psyched that we hired one of the best young defensive minds in the game; we don't have to overhaul the roster to compete right away with his system; we've got YOUNG TALENT in place at QB, LT and WR, some good 3-4 defensive linemen, some nice talent in the secondary, the best special teams player in the league ... I'm totally buying in ... ready for training camp.

 

Zombo

--draft, draft, draft ... stockpile talent ... nothing wrong with this defensive system

[YtownBrownsBacker]

What is great about america is everybody is entitled to express their opinion.

 

That being said, I personally think Mangini is a great hire. He brings discipline and organization to a team that was let to run wild. He will bring the hammer down on the prima donnas. Daboll has been recognized as a super WR coach and has also been a QB coach. I have not seen a bad article from a respectable journalist about him. Ryan will be a great addition. Not only is he on the same page as Mangini with their form of the 3-4, he is a great LB coach. He really understands what type of LBs are needed for the 3-4 and also understands that without the LBs the 3-4 sucks. So I finally see us addressing the LB problem we have had on this team for a long while. If their is a chance of unleashing Wimbley's potential in the 3-4, then Ryan can do it. If it just isn't htere for Wimbley, they will trade him to a 4-3 team.

 

Mangini makes the most sense since others, like Cowher, Shanahan and Pioli will or were just using the Browns to better their deals elsewhere. Mangini has experience and hopefully has learned from his mistakes as a rookie coach. Guys like Belichick, Dungy and Shanahan did.

 

GREAT HIRE.........................F**k the GMs job. Coaches win games, GMs are adminstrators.

[JoeSixPat]

Let's assume we all agree its vital that the Coach and GM are of the same mindset. Although there's very little in Mangini's track record that would give me confidence in him as a coach - but it seems clear Lerner wanted him (Mangini had the healthiest team this season, spent the most money, and they gave him a QB that he liked so much he named his son after him... all of those things going for him achieved a defacto 8-8 record.)

 

So what's the rush? What do you achieve by moving quick to sign a head coach who no other organizaton wanted or even asked to interview? And instead of hiring a GM and Coach team simultaneously, why would you hire a coach before you could negotiate with that GM? That's bad business and bad football. You've basically just given Kokinis a blank check because they know you're desperate to sign the GM that is the top choice of your head coach.

 

Now all Lerner can do is make believe that Kokinis is NOT the top choice of Mangini and that there's a half dozen others in the mix (all likely designed to tell Kokinis he can't stop short of demanding team ownership as a condition of coming to Cleveland).

 

Some rationalize that there's a need to get the best coaching assistants before other teams do - therefore sign a HC quickly so he can assemble his team.

 

Well the best assistants are generally believed to be on the best teams - and they're all still playing in the playoffs. The ones coaching for bad teams are available, but like Mangini, there's no demand for them - there sure wasn't a high demand for Rob Ryan - league sources really question this guy's tenure in LA.

 

Even the Jets are taking their time, waiting until they can actually hire Spagnolo - and dont' mind waiting to have Spagnolo wait until maybe even after the Super Bowl to assemble his assistants.

 

So I hope it all works out but this latest article where Lerner states that HE'S the one ultimately who is going to be the GM doesn't give me a lot of confidence. This whole process has been a slow motion train wreck.

 

But the fact remains that Lerner may have shot himself in the foot, and that the Browns might not have the necesary pairing of the GM and Coach who are not only good, but on the same page.

 

So while I seriously question the choice of Mangini, I fault the process by which Lerner shot himself in the foot, that might see him not have the GM Coach pairing I think he and everyone else wanted in the first place.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Let's assume we all agree its vital that the Coach and GM are of the same mindset. Although there's very little in Mangini's track record that would give me confidence in him as a coach - but it seems clear Lerner wanted him (Mangini had the healthiest team this season, spent the most money, and they gave him a QB that he liked so much he named his son after him... all of those things going for him achieved a defacto 8-8 record.)

 

So what's the rush? What do you achieve by moving quick to sign a head coach who no other organizaton wanted or even asked to interview? And instead of hiring a GM and Coach team simultaneously, why would you hire a coach before you could negotiate with that GM? That's bad business and bad football. You've basically just given Kokinis a blank check because they know you're desperate to sign the GM that is the top choice of your head coach.

 

Now all Lerner can do is make believe that Kokinis is NOT the top choice of Mangini and that there's a half dozen others in the mix (all likely designed to tell Kokinis he can't stop short of demanding team ownership as a condition of coming to Cleveland).

 

Some rationalize that there's a need to get the best coaching assistants before other teams do - therefore sign a HC quickly so he can assemble his team.

 

Well the best assistants are generally believed to be on the best teams - and they're all still playing in the playoffs. The ones coaching for bad teams are available, but like Mangini, there's no demand for them - there sure wasn't a high demand for Rob Ryan - league sources really question this guy's tenure in LA.

 

Even the Jets are taking their time, waiting until they can actually hire Spagnolo - and dont' mind waiting to have Spagnolo wait until maybe even after the Super Bowl to assemble his assistants.

 

So I hope it all works out but this latest article where Lerner states that HE'S the one ultimately who is going to be the GM doesn't give me a lot of confidence. This whole process has been a slow motion train wreck.

 

But the fact remains that Lerner may have shot himself in the foot, and that the Browns might not have the necesary pairing of the GM and Coach who are not only good, but on the same page.

 

So while I seriously question the choice of Mangini, I fault the process by which Lerner shot himself in the foot, that might see him not have the GM Coach pairing I think he and everyone else wanted in the first place.

 

While you answered your own question about hiring Mangini fast. It is so he can get his staff together. If you remember waiting for NE to win the SB, Crennell didn't have anybody but leftovers to pick from as a staff. The key to a successful NFL HC is organization and a solid staff all on the same page.

 

Ryan will be a great hire, Oakland is Al Davis and you run Al Davis's system and do what he says. This is a guy who brought in a washed up Warren Sapp, a team cancer, and thought he would transform his defense. He made Ryan run a 4-3 defense when his experience as a defensive assistant is in the 3-4. Al Davis picked the players, simular to Savage and told his staff to build a team.................................we know how that worked.

 

Ryan does blitz quite a bit and plays a zone behind it. Very simular to what Pittsburgh does. He was the LB coach in NE and is adament that you can't run a 3-4 without good LBs. He mixes up his rushers and demands the front 7 brings the pressure. So, this isn't RAC's same defense, because he will have LBs and he won't rush 3 guys and drop everybody else into coverage. He brings 4 but changes up on where the 4th guy is coming from, about half the time he brings 5. That's 3 downlinemen and two LBs.........................that is a blitz.

 

As much as you would like to diss Mangini and be a "glass is half empty " type guy, this isn't RAC and Savage 2.

 

[JoeSixPat]

While you answered your own question about hiring Mangini fast. It is so he can get his staff together.

 

If you guys all want to believe that it's the assistant coaches from all the worst teams that are actually the best coaches out there, be my guest.

 

Waiting until the Super Bowl is over to hire a head coach and assistants? I agree with you.

 

But going out of your way to preclude yourself from the ability to hire an assistant who's team has won even a single playoff game? Putting yourself in such a bad negotiating stance with Kokins?

 

Yes - I'm sure these are just some of the many reasons why your head coach is nicknamed Mangenius.

[Guest Masters]

3. Eric Mangini runs the exact same defensive system as RAC, no blitzing until you have the lead, keep everything in front of you, 2 gap read N react non agressive 3-4 defense, seems I kept reading all these post about wanting a aggressive defense and we won't be getting that with Mangini.

 

If it's the same D, it's pretty astounding that the NYJ had 41 sacks this past year, with out a single player having double digit sacks and no one I'd call a stand out pass rusher. Sounds like he does more than just rush 3, or 3 plus an obvious outside LB blitz.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

If you guys all want to believe that it's the assistant coaches from all the worst teams that are actually the best coaches out there, be my guest.

 

Waiting until the Super Bowl is over to hire a head coach and assistants? I agree with you.

 

But going out of your way to preclude yourself from the ability to hire an assistant who's team has won even a single playoff game? Putting yourself in such a bad negotiating stance with Kokins?

 

Yes - I'm sure these are just some of the many reasons why your head coach is nicknamed Mangenius.

 

Did you think anybody was asking your opinion? If so, you are mistaken.

 

Is this Billly B. posting under an assumed name. I talked to Eric and he said to tell you that he is sorry he made an ass out of you.

[damajuki]

Zombo, great post. Let me (belatedly) also wish you a warm "welcome back". It's great to read your stuff again.

 

Look, fellas, Zombo touched on it but let me reiterate:

 

Mangini was THE hot candidate three years ago. In the past three years, he didn't get WORSE as a head coach, he got BETTER because he was learning on the job. Y'know, the kind of thing that we would have had to endure had we hired this year's hot candidate.

 

And since we're getting the hot candidate of three years ago who did a decent job learning how to be a head coach the last three years, how can anyone seriously argue he isn't 1. an upgrade over what we had, and 2. still a young, talented coach with the MAJORITY of his career ahead of him?

 

What's not to like here, exactly?

 

As for the Jets this year, did they choke down the stretch? Yes, they did.

 

But if we're going to judge head coaches on any bad 5 game stretch then all we'll have left is HoFers. It's a ridiculous way to measure a HC and repeating the "de facto 8-8 record" thing like it's a bad thing for a franchise that has won 4 games 4 times in the last 6 years just makes certain people look moronic. (Okay, I'm looking at you, JoeSixPat. Appropriate name, especially given the sterling reputation of those who made that name famous this year.)

 

Anyway, Mangini is the best guy for this organization at this time. And it's a GREAT move that makes a ton of sense for us right now.

 

Mangini, the new GM and Quinn get 2 years from me before I seriously consider worrying about them.

 

Like Zombo said, I'm psyched, I'm in, I'm onboard. Bring on the draft and FA and let's get this shit rollin'!

 

 

 

[o_robbie]

Browns should have hired Mcdaniels from NE.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Browns should have hired Mcdaniels from NE.

 

And what kind of staff do you think this 32 year old kid could have put together? Especially with no GM, No experience because Belichick calls all the shots in New England. Especially since we know know Pioli was just jacking us around. Lerner interviewed McDaniel and he must not of been that impressed with is overall plan to transform this organization.

 

We need more then a QB coach here, we need a whole new makeover. Someone who isn't afraid to come in and kick some ass.

 

I expect a 30% roster turnover this spring with Mangini and it is needed. Do you think McDaniel, without a very experienced GM could even imagine doing something like that.

 

[Geech]

a defacto 8-8 record.

 

I'm not drinking the kool aid here. I'm content with the Mangini hire for now, but the fact is that the Jets went 9-7 in 2008. So many games in the NFL are decided by one good/bad decision. You can say, "If Juaron this and if Juaron that" all you want, but you can say that about every team at least once or twice a year.

 

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas. If "if" was a fifth, we'd all be drunk, etc., etc. I could "if" my way to King of the World.

 

-Al

[Squintz]

And what kind of staff do you think this 32 year old kid could have put together? Especially with no GM, No experience because Belichick calls all the shots in New England. Especially since we know know Pioli was just jacking us around. Lerner interviewed McDaniel and he must not of been that impressed with is overall plan to transform this organization.

 

We need more then a QB coach here, we need a whole new makeover. Someone who isn't afraid to come in and kick some ass.

 

I expect a 30% roster turnover this spring with Mangini and it is needed. Do you think McDaniel, without a very experienced GM could even imagine doing something like that.

 

No shiite - it's all well and good to get 'the next great thing' in the new hotshot. But what will happen to McDaniels is what happens to all the young hotshots: they struggle with swaying the staff they want to come on board.

 

We DID NOT need someone to come in and use this as a learning ground.

 

I'm not enamoured as I was a big Pioli supporter over Mangini, but I can't help but think back in a very similar fashion to what Zombo and damajuki have touched on. A few years ago when the Jets hired him I was pissed beyond belief that we had hired a lifetime coordinator and they got the young hotshot. Because back then, I didn't mind him cutting his teeth for a couple of years in assembling the right staff.

 

Today, however, I don't want that. I want experience.

 

With Mangini, I feel we get both.