H & H On The Hot Seat?

[miktoxic]

ok, so i'm not here to throw a bitchfest. most know how i feel about the draft after our first pick but anyways.....

 

if shit doesn't pan out this year and we only win 5 games are the 2 big FO honchos on the hot seat?

 

just saying how many years is everyone willing to give this regime?

 

we had the first year of holmgren evaluating mangini. he's gone. then we had the colt mccoy evaluation year. now he's the backup (presumably). then the pat shurmur evaluation year. what is this year the richardson and weeden evaluation year?

 

it didn't take this long to build rome.

[The Gipper]

ok, so i'm not here to throw a bitchfest. most know how i feel about the draft after our first pick but anyways.....

 

if shit doesn't pan out this year and we only win 5 games are the 2 big FO honchos on the hot seat?

 

just saying how many years is everyone willing to give this regime?

 

we had the first year of holmgren evaluating mangini. he's gone. then we had the colt mccoy evaluation year. now he's the backup (presumably). then the pat shurmur evaluation year. what is this year the richardson and weeden evaluation year?

 

it didn't take this long to build rome.

 

 

NO, you are working yourself up over nothing. Nothing you can control, nothing that is going to happen despite the fact you don't control it.

Unless your name is Randy Lerner.

[Harry Buffalo]

Not going to happen no point in talking about it. Hiring a FO or coach for 4 years and firing them is why our organization is terrible anyway.

[miktoxic]

Not going to happen no point in talking about it. Hiring a FO or coach for 4 years and firing them is why our organization is terrible anyway.

 

i agree with both your points.

 

my question is...why does this regime get the benefit of the doubt when others before were shit canned in 2-3 years?

 

now all of a sudden we have to trust this franchise under the control of a fat blow hard? who thinks he is a HOF coach? (ok he might be one day....just sayin).

 

BTW yeah i do get all worked up about this horse shit. that's why i love this forum. great stress reliever and giver.

[Zombo]

ok, so i'm not here to throw a bitchfest. most know how i feel about the draft after our first pick but anyways.....

 

if shit doesn't pan out this year and we only win 5 games are the 2 big FO honchos on the hot seat?

 

just saying how many years is everyone willing to give this regime?

 

we had the first year of holmgren evaluating mangini. he's gone. then we had the colt mccoy evaluation year. now he's the backup (presumably). then the pat shurmur evaluation year. what is this year the richardson and weeden evaluation year?

 

it didn't take this long to build rome.

 

 

Heckert is filling the coffers with talent. Just let the kids play.

 

Zombo

[miktoxic]

 

Zombo[/b][/color]

LOL! you are one funny dude.

[jnuh]

ok, so i'm not here to throw a bitchfest. most know how i feel about the draft after our first pick but anyways.....

 

if shit doesn't pan out this year and we only win 5 games are the 2 big FO honchos on the hot seat?

 

just saying how many years is everyone willing to give this regime?

 

we had the first year of holmgren evaluating mangini. he's gone. then we had the colt mccoy evaluation year. now he's the backup (presumably). then the pat shurmur evaluation year. what is this year the richardson and weeden evaluation year?

 

it didn't take this long to build rome.

 

With all due respect I don't get why you hate this draft so much.

 

Obviously, I know you are okay with the TRich pick.

 

After that though what is it that you hate so much? We needed a QB and got one. We needed a RT and got one. You should have known that going into the draft we were only going to fill 3 holes with starters (maybe 4) realistically you are only getting guys who should definitly start from day one in the first 2 rounds. After that its a huge crap shoot.

 

Sure it sucks we didn't get a playmaking WR, but if we did we would still have holes elsewhere (QB or RT)

 

If you are upset about where we took certain players don't be. I was in the same boat after 2010 and 2011. I was PISSED about TJ Ward being picked in the second, and I was even more pissed about drafting Taylor and Sheard. I learned though that Heckert knows his shit.

 

How many teams do you honestly think had a better draft then us last year?? Taylor and Sheard both played very well. Little has a ton of promise and if he shakes off the rust he can be a legit WR. Pinkston was a late round pick and looked to be really coming into his own by the end of last season. Plus we got Skrine and Hagg we were both pretty decent for late round picks and at the very least could be solid depth.

 

This year ... we didn't really address "need" at starting positions late because there weren't guys good enough to draft that should be starting in this league. We did however get some very much needed depth in areas we needed it like O/D-Line. Sure Rubin and Taylor are studs ... but they are big guys who get tired by the end of games late in the season. Atleast now we hopefully have some good rotational guys.

[BrownIndian]

Every one know this year the Browns have a touch schedule. A 4 - 12 result is still a guaranteed lock for the regime. The only person who might be in danger is Shurmur. Lerner is not going to look good if he fires Holmgren before giving him 5 years to turn things around.

[nickers]

I have done a 180 on H&H.

 

I am pleased with how Holmgren handled himself, the media and the fans, and I am pleased with Heckerts drafting and personnel accumen. I would like ot say that I understand what Holmgren's intricate philosophy is, but I can't and neither can anyone else. That said, I can say this with absolute confidence. Holmgren is not being swayed by fan opinion, the media or anything else.

 

I am glad he didn't sell his testicles to get RGIII or anyone else for that matter.

 

If anyone hasn't noticed, this parity shit has really put a dent in the words dynasty, dominating and genius. What I mean is that no team and no coach has a high yearly SB expectation. You think Belichik can draft another Brady way down the list? YOu think Chuck Knoll could repeat his famuos draft? Hell no.

 

So here is what I am saying. You take the top 10 WRs and put them into a series of races and contests. They will all finish within micro seconds of each other. So what makes one great and the other one average?

 

Well who knows, but THATS THE SHIT that winning is all about.

 

The thing that makes teams like the Steelers, Giants, Patriots and Bengals so great year after year (okay, I'm just fucking with ya on the Bengals), is that they seem to have an ever present block of dependable, workhorse players, with a few star playmakes thrown in the mix.

 

The days of DeBartolo stacking his odds by paying an extra $30 million under the table to get more players, is gone.

 

The days of building an instant champion are likewise gone. Cinci got good, yes they did, but they didn't get great.

 

In a nutshell, the way I read Holmgren is that he feels no pressure to win at any time. At the same time, I don't believe he will be happy until he does win. The way I read Holmgren is that if we knew his real outlook, and perhaps that it is going to take a few more years of these kinds of drafts, we owuld really bitch.

 

t the end of the day, and I have no expertise in this, other than being good at reading people, I think Holmgren has an idea of buidling that solid block of players who can be maintained over the years, and go after the "hero" talent to support it.

 

I may be wrong, but holmgren is far to calm for him to be under any gun. I think LErner trusts Homgren and he is going to give him a good run at this.

 

 

great post Tom, and let Me also say that not only do I agree...But I would ask any of you in Holmgrens shoes if you would just take a job to collect a pay check. And by that I mean...I really believe he takes pride in what he does. He's a football man for god sakes. He's got his name on this so Im sure he wants to be successful. At his age, He too sees the window narrowing down on his career, and I think anyone in that phase of life would like to go out on top.

[The Gipper]

I have done a 180 on H&H.

 

I am pleased with how Holmgren handled himself, the media and the fans, and I am pleased with Heckerts drafting and personnel accumen. I would like ot say that I understand what Holmgren's intricate philosophy is, but I can't and neither can anyone else. That said, I can say this with absolute confidence. Holmgren is not being swayed by fan opinion, the media or anything else.

 

I am glad he didn't sell his testicles to get RGIII or anyone else for that matter.

 

If anyone hasn't noticed, this parity shit has really put a dent in the words dynasty, dominating and genius. What I mean is that no team and no coach has a high yearly SB expectation. You think Belichik can draft another Brady way down the list? YOu think Chuck Knoll could repeat his famuos draft? Hell no.

 

So here is what I am saying. You take the top 10 WRs and put them into a series of races and contests. They will all finish within micro seconds of each other. So what makes one great and the other one average?

 

Well who knows, but THATS THE SHIT that winning is all about.

 

The thing that makes teams like the Steelers, Giants, Patriots and Bengals so great year after year (okay, I'm just fucking with ya on the Bengals), is that they seem to have an ever present block of dependable, workhorse players, with a few star playmakes thrown in the mix.

 

The days of DeBartolo stacking his odds by paying an extra $30 million under the table to get more players, is gone.

 

The days of building an instant champion are likewise gone. Cinci got good, yes they did, but they didn't get great.

 

In a nutshell, the way I read Holmgren is that he feels no pressure to win at any time. At the same time, I don't believe he will be happy until he does win. The way I read Holmgren is that if we knew his real outlook, and perhaps that it is going to take a few more years of these kinds of drafts, we owuld really bitch.

 

t the end of the day, and I have no expertise in this, other than being good at reading people, I think Holmgren has an idea of buidling that solid block of players who can be maintained over the years, and go after the "hero" talent to support it.

 

I may be wrong, but holmgren is far to calm for him to be under any gun. I think LErner trusts Homgren and he is going to give him a good run at this.

 

 

Here here. Well said.

[jrb12711]

I think a huge thing people aren't seeing here too is just how bad this roster was before they got here. Honestly, the fact that the '09 squad won more than a game baffles me looking back. Seriously, take some time to look at the roster and you'll see what I'm saying. Basically, these guys had to build from the ground up. The reason the browns have remained shitty all these years is two fold. 1) We haven't had people capable of evaluating talent worth a shit which have led to awful drafts (cough quinn cough) and 2) kind of going with bad drafting is we have had horrendous QB play. In two years the front office have added a significant amount of quality starters. They took a chance on Colt and it failed, but luckily we have a guy in Holmgren who understands the lifeblood of a team is the QB and took one. If he fails, guess what? You bet your ass he's gonna be considering drafting another one.

 

 

So give it time, let the guys play.

[Gips]

At this point regime change wont change anything so we need to stick it out and see if things can work themselves out within a couple years....

After that randy lerner is the guy that needs to feel some fan outrage..

 

I should point out that beyond richardson i consider this draft a complete bust that sits this team back at least another year..

Hopefully i am wrong and weeden can learn and react fast and our WRs are better than they appear and shurmur has more than unsweetened vanilla ice cream up his sleeve..

[hammertime]

I have done a 180 on H&H.

 

I am pleased with how Holmgren handled himself, the media and the fans, and I am pleased with Heckerts drafting and personnel accumen. I would like ot say that I understand what Holmgren's intricate philosophy is, but I can't and neither can anyone else. That said, I can say this with absolute confidence. Holmgren is not being swayed by fan opinion, the media or anything else.

 

I am glad he didn't sell his testicles to get RGIII or anyone else for that matter.

 

If anyone hasn't noticed, this parity shit has really put a dent in the words dynasty, dominating and genius. What I mean is that no team and no coach has a high yearly SB expectation. You think Belichik can draft another Brady way down the list? YOu think Chuck Knoll could repeat his famuos draft? Hell no.

 

So here is what I am saying. You take the top 10 WRs and put them into a series of races and contests. They will all finish within micro seconds of each other. So what makes one great and the other one average?

 

Well who knows, but THATS THE SHIT that winning is all about.

 

The thing that makes teams like the Steelers, Giants, Patriots and Bengals so great year after year (okay, I'm just fucking with ya on the Bengals), is that they seem to have an ever present block of dependable, workhorse players, with a few star playmakes thrown in the mix.

 

The days of DeBartolo stacking his odds by paying an extra $30 million under the table to get more players, is gone.

 

The days of building an instant champion are likewise gone. Cinci got good, yes they did, but they didn't get great.

 

In a nutshell, the way I read Holmgren is that he feels no pressure to win at any time. At the same time, I don't believe he will be happy until he does win. The way I read Holmgren is that if we knew his real outlook, and perhaps that it is going to take a few more years of these kinds of drafts, we owuld really bitch.

 

t the end of the day, and I have no expertise in this, other than being good at reading people, I think Holmgren has an idea of buidling that solid block of players who can be maintained over the years, and go after the "hero" talent to support it.

 

I may be wrong, but holmgren is far to calm for him to be under any gun. I think LErner trusts Homgren and he is going to give him a good run at this.

 

impressive post. this opinion is shared by those with knowledge and patience. losing has prevented people from being on the half full side for far to long. (after reading some of your previous posts for the past 5-10 yrs its hard to beleive your the same poster)

[BrownRebel]

And I understand that, completely. I have most certainly thrown out my share of vitriol, trash and irritation. NOt making excuses, but that's just me, I come off like an inflexible, asshole drill seargent. I get it.

 

But here is the other factor for me. Being a Browns fans since I can first remember, probably 1960, at 6 years old, I have a pretty big Browns database to mangage. IN all honesty, I couldn't warm up to this team as I did the older ones. I don't mean to start shit about real and fake Browns, but my point is it was about me. You know, like a kid from a broken home who couldn't warm up to some new guy sleeping with his Mom.

 

Maybe I just needed enought time to pass, or perhaps I am just mentally slow, but whatever it is, this Browns team is my Browns team. This Browns team IS THe Browns.

 

All this unrealistic bullshit about we have to win next year or else, is just that, it is unrealistic bullshit.

Before this team can win it has to learn to play with passion, discipline and pride. It needs to be cohesive, execute properly and hopefully among the players, begin to build a team/family or what ever horseshit you want to call it.

 

I am sorry, but a team as fragile as ours couldn't afford the noise of a Hillis. The only thing the Browns must do in 2012, is start doing all that happy horseshit that successful teams and organizations do. When that happens, guys have opportunities to make plays; they feel a responsibility to make plays, and a responsibility to be better representatives of the team.

 

Hoorta has always been big on players with class and respect. I used to pull his nutsack off about how that shit doesn't matter and we just need playmakers. Well, I think both of these things are important.

 

I know this much, I have my 1964 throwback jacket ready to wear and while I am not pushing throught the summer, I WILL be ready to see the Browns finally heading in the right direction. I'll say it again, Homgrens stock went up greatly with me when I saw him stay calm, focused and with Heckert producing a draft that has high probability of good things for us.

 

I hate to swear, but man, I have been building this up for 10 years now. Fuck Pittsburgh. Fuck their lucky SB wins. Fuck Cowher, Fuck Big Ben, Fuck Ward and Fuck anything ealse east of Poland, Ohio.

 

 

Damn ghoolie, give me a helmet and get me in the game! You're firing my happy ass up!

[Harry Buffalo]

And I understand that, completely. I have most certainly thrown out my share of vitriol, trash and irritation. NOt making excuses, but that's just me, I come off like an inflexible, asshole drill seargent. I get it.

 

But here is the other factor for me. Being a Browns fans since I can first remember, probably 1960, at 6 years old, I have a pretty big Browns database to mangage. IN all honesty, I couldn't warm up to this team as I did the older ones. I don't mean to start shit about real and fake Browns, but my point is it was about me. You know, like a kid from a broken home who couldn't warm up to some new guy sleeping with his Mom.

 

Maybe I just needed enought time to pass, or perhaps I am just mentally slow, but whatever it is, this Browns team is my Browns team. This Browns team IS THe Browns.

 

All this unrealistic bullshit about we have to win next year or else, is just that, it is unrealistic bullshit.

Before this team can win it has to learn to play with passion, discipline and pride. It needs to be cohesive, execute properly and hopefully among the players, begin to build a team/family or what ever horseshit you want to call it.

 

I am sorry, but a team as fragile as ours couldn't afford the noise of a Hillis. The only thing the Browns must do in 2012, is start doing all that happy horseshit that successful teams and organizations do. When that happens, guys have opportunities to make plays; they feel a responsibility to make plays, and a responsibility to be better representatives of the team.

 

Hoorta has always been big on players with class and respect. I used to pull his nutsack off about how that shit doesn't matter and we just need playmakers. Well, I think both of these things are important.

 

I know this much, I have my 1964 throwback jacket ready to wear and while I am not pushing throught the summer, I WILL be ready to see the Browns finally heading in the right direction. I'll say it again, Homgrens stock went up greatly with me when I saw him stay calm, focused and with Heckert producing a draft that has high probability of good things for us.

 

I hate to swear, but man, I have been building this up for 10 years now. Fuck Pittsburgh. Fuck their lucky SB wins. Fuck Cowher, Fuck Big Ben, Fuck Ward and Fuck anything ealse east of Poland, Ohio.

 

I agree and I think you can see this starting to happen on the team with some the the younger guys. I think our group of DB's have what you are talking about. Both Haden and Ward show so much passion for the game and for the city that you would think they were actually borthers and they have really been pulling other young defenders into the fold such as Taylor who I constantly read is doing things in the Cleveland community and talking about how much he likes the city and team.

 

One area of the team that needs to work on this is the O-Line and I think that has been the reason they have under performed the past few seasons. Obviously RT has been a huge issue but it seems like since Thomas was stuck being the only good OL for a few season he just kind of worries about himself and at most only worried about his side of the line. We could see the camaraderie that Thomas, Steinbach, and Mack shared but there is still two other people on the line and every interview you here all 3 of those guys talking about the left side this the left side that while our right side was a revolving door.

[SDBrownsFan]

"One area of the team that needs to work on this is the O-Line and I think that has been the reason they have under performed the past few seasons. Obviously RT has been a huge issue but it seems like since Thomas was stuck being the only good OL for a few season he just kind of worries about himself and at most only worried about his side of the line. We could see the camaraderie that Thomas, Steinbach, and Mack shared but there is still two other people on the line and every interview you here all 3 of those guys talking about the left side this the left side that while our right side was a revolving door."

 

Is this fact?

 

Thomas in my opinion has been a great teammate- look what he did with Sheard last training camp. I think Pinkston showed improvement as well can we attribute some of that to the guys around him. As far as the play on the field and helping during a game- All Thomas does is lock down a defender (usually the teams best pash rusher) if you or anyone else wants him to stand on his head and do the job of three other lineman we have to look at expectations.

[Harry Buffalo]

"One area of the team that needs to work on this is the O-Line and I think that has been the reason they have under performed the past few seasons. Obviously RT has been a huge issue but it seems like since Thomas was stuck being the only good OL for a few season he just kind of worries about himself and at most only worried about his side of the line. We could see the camaraderie that Thomas, Steinbach, and Mack shared but there is still two other people on the line and every interview you here all 3 of those guys talking about the left side this the left side that while our right side was a revolving door."

 

Is this fact?

 

Thomas in my opinion has been a great teammate- look what he did with Sheard last training camp. I think Pinkston showed improvement as well can we attribute some of that to the guys around him. As far as the play on the field and helping during a game- All Thomas does is lock down a defender (usually the teams best pash rusher) if you or anyone else wants him to stand on his head and do the job of three other lineman we have to look at expectations.

 

He didn't help Sheard he just went out there and did his job and Sheard had to go against him. Sheard got better because he had to go against Thomas not because Thomas took him under his wing. And yes he helped Pinkston because as I said he cares about the left side, not the line. Why didn't he take Lauvou under his wing and help him out on the sidelines and in the huddle. When Cousins got tossed in there why wasn't he trying to help him learn his plays and work on his pass blocking. Cause he doesn't care about that side and the O-Line as a whole group hasn't been able to form a solid camaraderie. I'm not saying Thomas isn't a good player and I am not saying there is even anything wrong with is attitude, I am saying the line as a whole hasn't formed that attitude that we are talking about.

[SDBrownsFan]

Aug 9. Grossi in the PD... " "Thomas said, "A good tackle, if you notice [the defensive end is] leaning [with head down] like that, they'll just take you and throw you down to the dirt and bounce your head off the ground. It's a quick learning lesson."

 

That happened a few times to Sheard in the first week of practice, when Thomas was mostly preoccupied with his own assignments in the new offense. He told Sheard to give him a week or so and then he would teach him a few things, and that's what is taking place now.

 

"[Teaching him] whether he's giving anything away or if there's anything he does consistently that the tackle's going to pick up on," Thomas said. "Just how to play a tackle during a game, whether it's the first rush, or how to set him up during a game." " Is this the definition of taking someone under their wing- if not what is? "Why didn't he take Lauvou under his wing and help him out on the sidelines and in the huddle." Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Lauvou just isn't that good.

 

When Cousins got tossed in there why wasn't he trying to help him learn his plays and work on his pass blocking. What do you want during the season you have 5 days to watch film and heal your wounds from the week before. Again Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Cousins just isn't that good.

[Harry Buffalo]

Aug 9. Grossi in the PD... " "Thomas said, "A good tackle, if you notice [the defensive end is] leaning [with head down] like that, they'll just take you and throw you down to the dirt and bounce your head off the ground. It's a quick learning lesson."

 

That happened a few times to Sheard in the first week of practice, when Thomas was mostly preoccupied with his own assignments in the new offense. He told Sheard to give him a week or so and then he would teach him a few things, and that's what is taking place now.

 

"[Teaching him] whether he's giving anything away or if there's anything he does consistently that the tackle's going to pick up on," Thomas said. "Just how to play a tackle during a game, whether it's the first rush, or how to set him up during a game." " Is this the definition of taking someone under their wing- if not what is? "Why didn't he take Lauvou under his wing and help him out on the sidelines and in the huddle." Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Lauvou just isn't that good.

 

When Cousins got tossed in there why wasn't he trying to help him learn his plays and work on his pass blocking. What do you want during the season you have 5 days to watch film and heal your wounds from the week before. Again Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Cousins just isn't that good.

 

If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something. They didn't. You have as much perspective as me so just cause your so far up Thomas' ass it's just making see through his shit colored glasses. As previously stated this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond. The left side between Thomas and Mack have one but they haven't tried to including the whole line.

[calfoxwc]

Oh, frickin baloney. Inventing something to fraudulently bitch about seems like a waste of time, don'tcha think?

 

Seriously....

[SDBrownsFan]

If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something. They didn't. You have as much perspective as me so just cause your so far up Thomas' ass it's just making see through his shit colored glasses. As previously stated this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond. The left side between Thomas and Mack have one but they haven't tried to including the whole line.

 

 

"If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something????" Because they have duty to say something. You are right I have the limited perspective like you have so I'm not going to make inferences like you have- I'm going to go off of training camp reports- just like I have from Browns or Ex-Browns reporters- who may not include everything I'm sure, but what they report is as close to fact as you or me the average fan will ever get.

 

"this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond."- Kinda hard to make a bond with a revolving door at RT, and until recently the guard position. Is this Thomas' fault or even Mack's fault? Do you want them to "train up" Cousins for the waiver wire?

 

Trying to "include" the whole line sounds childish why doesn't the GM and HC try to include the right people- well it looks like they just have- so now we can all bond- maybe?

[Harry Buffalo]

"If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something????" Because they have duty to say something. You are right I have the limited perspective like you have so I'm not going to make inferences like you have- I'm going to go off of training camp reports- just like I have from Browns or Ex-Browns reporters- who may not include everything I'm sure, but what they report is as close to fact as you or me the average fan will ever get.

 

"this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond."- Kinda hard to make a bond with a revolving door at RT, and until recently the guard position. Is this Thomas' fault or even Mack's fault? Do you want them to "train up" Cousins for the waiver wire?

 

Trying to "include" the whole line sounds childish why doesn't the GM and HC try to include the right people- well it looks like they just have- so now we can all bond- maybe?

 

So Pinkston gets included his first week playing and Lauvou is never helped even though he was here longer? I'm not even talking about trying to make Cousins a starter I'm just saying there is more than 3 guys on the O-Line and Thomas and Mack only really care about that left side. It doesn't matter who you have on the line there are 5 guys so why are our 2 pro bowlers on that line only focusing on helping themselves? They need to care about the whole group including backups, not just the themselves as the starting left side.

[SDBrownsFan]

"It doesn't matter who you have on the line there are 5 guys so why are our 2 pro bowlers on that line only focusing on helping themselves? They need to care about the whole group including backups, not just the themselves as the starting left side."

 

I don't agree with this. This is a High School football mentality. These are grown men that make a living and our responsible for their own performance or they wait by the phone for the next opportunity. They meet around the clock to prepare for an opponent studying film and doing walk throughs. Aaron Rodgers complained about Brett Farve- not really stepping up and mentoring but Packer fans and writers didn't come to his rescue- they probably thought take responsibility and learn the position.

 

Alex Mack and Joe Thomas have enough to worry about. It appears by reports that Joe Thomas worries about others as well- nothing was reported about Alex Mack but can we just leap to a conclusion that he doesn't help others?

[Harry Buffalo]

"It doesn't matter who you have on the line there are 5 guys so why are our 2 pro bowlers on that line only focusing on helping themselves? They need to care about the whole group including backups, not just the themselves as the starting left side."

 

I don't agree with this. This is a High School football mentality. These are grown men that make a living and our responsible for their own performance or they wait by the phone for the next opportunity. They meet around the clock to prepare for an opponent studying film and doing walk throughs. Aaron Rodgers complained about Brett Farve- not really stepping up and mentoring but Packer fans and writers didn't come to his rescue- they probably thought take responsibility and learn the position.

 

Alex Mack and Joe Thomas have enough to worry about. It appears by reports that Joe Thomas worries about others as well- nothing was reported about Alex Mack but can we just leap to a conclusion that he doesn't help others?

 

It's not necessarily coaching every player on the line. Yes you have a job and when it comes to game time you come first but within Thomas's 5 years on the team and Macks 3 our O-Line in any year has failed to form any kind of nucleus or group mentality past just the starting left side, the side that starts and ends with Thomas and Mack. Who ever is the lucky duck to play between them is going to be included but who ever plays at RG and RT has been left out. Every major group should form this kind of nucleus, a tight nit group. As I said out DB have formed this group, our O-Line hasn't even tried.

[SDBrownsFan]

It's not necessarily coaching every player on the line. Yes you have a job and when it comes to game time you come first but within Thomas's 5 years on the team and Macks 3 our O-Line in any year has failed to form any kind of nucleus or group mentality past just the starting left side, the side that starts and ends with Thomas and Mack. Who ever is the lucky duck to play between them is going to be included but who ever plays at RG and RT has been left out. Every major group should form this kind of nucleus, a tight nit group. As I said out DB have formed this group, our O-Line hasn't even tried.

 

I'll maintain...

 

1. How do you know? For all we know Mack and Lavauo watch film together and discuss DTs each week. Thomas and Pashos possibly shared notes on pass rushers figuring at any moment a team could line a pash rusher on the other side.

2. Talent goes a long ways- coach'em mentor'em up do whatever you want but when you have a revolving door (injuries or guys not cutting it) at the other positions a new nucleus will never take shape. I'm very hopeful moving forward- although I hope th eBrowns consider at a guy like Macrus McNeil so Schwartz can learn for a year and is not just thrown into the mix.

3. I think the mentality of pro football is closer to Take care of your own and you ultimately take care of the team. There is too much prep. to worry about the next guy- OTAs, rookie camps, training camp- I'm sure there is sharing and learning amongst each other, but yo uhave a certain responsibilty to take care of yourself when your a big boy making a living.

[Harry Buffalo]

I think this team also suffered a lot form being the new franchise that wasn't expected to win for awhile. The ealry team had a lot of nonchalant players just getting a paycheck and passing through. I think for the longest time that attitude polluted the team. Some guys, like Cribbs for instance, brought it every week. Enough slackers I think weighed this team down.

 

The one thing about youth is that sins and habits of the past, sooner or later fade out.

 

Just as Jim Brown's era has faded, I think so too has our lackluster return started to fade out. Young guys coming here now want to win. Hey want to make a name for themselves and they don't care about all the shit that has gone before.

 

Wins aside, I believe the 2012 season will be the most enjoyable season we have had since Lerner brought the team back. I think we will see hits, catches, plays and players who actually give a shit. I think we have enough new blood now that the dead weight players are going to stand out like a sore thumb.

 

I'm gonna get a Trent Richardson Jersey. I haven't worn a number jersey since #17, and that was a long time ago.

 

GO Browns!

 

Smelley is taking #47