MLD Woody Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Why?? Face it, most abortions are performed because the woman doesn't want the kid for any number of reasons, health being the least likely. Men can be as unprepared to be a parent for the same reasons. You don't believe in equal rights?? Yes, I believe in equal rights. This isn't that though. I believe in equal rights where they apply and there are actual discrepancies. Its not your pregnancy and it is not your body. You aren't suffering through all the symptoms for 9 months and you aren't the one possibly risking your life (rarely) at the end. Sure, you provided some DNA, and because of that you should have a say. But not as much as the female. I wouldn't expect a female to have as much say as the man in regards to the guy getting a vasectomy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yes, I believe in equal rights. This isn't that though. I believe in equal rights where they apply and there are actual discrepancies. Its not your pregnancy and it is not your body. You aren't suffering through all the symptoms for 9 months and you aren't the one possibly risking your life (rarely) at the end. Sure, you provided some DNA, and because of that you should have a say. But not as much as the female. I wouldn't expect a female to have as much say as the man in regards to the guy getting a vasectomy either. And in a different twist to the same statement- and one that refutes your claim to "leaving the female alone" in the decision to have the child.... is one that allows men to "walk away " from their responsibility to be fathers and leave it up to the women, Dont you think that is the option that alot of guys take? is what we see rampant in the country today? And the end result is more abortion??? Think about it Woody... If the man says he will stay and take up his responsibility for getting the woman pregnant, dont you think it should be His decision right as well? just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yes, I believe in equal rights. This isn't that though. I believe in equal rights where they apply and there are actual discrepancies. Its not your pregnancy and it is not your body. You aren't suffering through all the symptoms for 9 months and you aren't the one possibly risking your life (rarely) at the end. Sure, you provided some DNA, and because of that you should have a say. But not as much as the female. I wouldn't expect a female to have as much say as the man in regards to the guy getting a vasectomy either. This is all kinds of wrong. If you're going to abort a child it had better be a joint decision. The man has rights too. Did your father have any say in raising you or did your mother have the last word because she carried you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well you can have any opinion you want vapor. After all I'm the one that just washed and read books to a beautiful one year old child, and you're the smarmy douche who thinks printed information in some book is the end all and be all of life. I know what it took to bring a child into existence. I know when his life started, you have no idea about it. Not. One. Idea. Dude, I'm sorry for the troubles that you went through, I really am, but just because you went through those troubles doesn't mean that your situation applies to everyone else. I honestly think your loathe for those who had abortions for birth control was just because of your jealousy. Jealousy isn't a reason to change abortion policy. Like I said, I don't hold it against you. I was a black and white smarmy liberal know it all douche once too. One day you'll put down the games, meet a real girl and maybe even have a family. Some responsibility. Then you'll have some idea, outside of a book or other piece of media that someone else thought of for you. I've been dating a girl for over a year now, and it's looking to be pretty serious. I don't know whether the problem with getting pregnant was you or your wife, and you might not have known either, but my girlfriend has a very irregular cycle. I have no idea what implications that has toward her fertility. Honestly, I'd like to have a kid with her, but if we couldn't, I don't think I'd loathe those who could. Adoption is always an option, and if things work out, we plan on adopting a kid or two, regardless of how many we end up having. It's called growing up. You have a lot of it to do. I agree with you, and to be completely honest, my militant atheist phase is starting to pass. Nice fallout three meme. +1 No its not better than the "option on the table" either. Birth control is awesome, you'll get no complaint from me. Everyone should be using birth control every single time unless you're actually trying to have a kid, but abortion is not right, and will never be right. It's legal convienence murder plain and simple.Doctors doctors who take an oath to do no harm, should know this more than anyone. It's hypocritical in the most extreme sense to take that oath and then kill the most defenseless and innocent, a living child cruelly and savagely ripped from the womb. I don't agree with hard-core Christian fundementalists on much but we agree on this: abortion "doctors" are sleazy fucking scumbags. I'm sorry, I just disagree with you 100%. Unless you've been with someone who had an abortion, you have no idea what's going through their minds. Is it ending the potential of a human life? Absolutely. Is it murder? No. I, however, respect abortion doctors because they're doing a job that 1 - hardly anyone wants to do, 2 - they're risking their lives to do it, 3 - they're the only ones who are there to help a potential mother through that difficult decision. You could say all you like about abortion being murder, but I honestly believe this society would be worse off if abortion were illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 And in a different twist to the same statement- and one that refutes your claim to "leaving the female alone" in the decision to have the child.... is one that allows men to "walk away " from their responsibility to be fathers and leave it up to the women, Dont you think that is the option that alot of guys take? is what we see rampant in the country today? And the end result is more abortion??? Think about it Woody... If the man says he will stay and take up his responsibility for getting the woman pregnant, dont you think it should be His decision right as well? just sayin... Sorry hooker, but the pregnancy belongs to the female regardless of what the male wants. If a woman doesn't want to go through with a pregnancy, she doesn't have to, and she shouldn't have to. If you really want to legislate what you say you believe, you're going up against not only every feminist in the country, but ANY woman who thinks her say should count as much as a man's. If there were a parallel you could draw when a woman would have control over a man, then maybe it'd be worth listening to, but the closest thing is when a dad has to pay child support for an unwanted kid. Either way, I don't feel bad for the dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Why?? Face it, most abortions are performed because the woman doesn't want the kid for any number of reasons, health being the least likely. Men can be as unprepared to be a parent for the same reasons. You don't believe in equal rights?? Like Woody said, what you are suggesting is not equal rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Dude, I'm sorry for the troubles that you went through, I really am, but just because you went through those troubles doesn't mean that your situation applies to everyone else. I honestly think your loathe for those who had abortions for birth control was just because of your jealousy. Jealousy isn't a reason to change abortion policy. I've been dating a girl for over a year now, and it's looking to be pretty serious. I don't know whether the problem with getting pregnant was you or your wife, and you might not have known either, but my girlfriend has a very irregular cycle. I have no idea what implications that has toward her fertility. Honestly, I'd like to have a kid with her, but if we couldn't, I don't think I'd loathe those who could. Adoption is always an option, and if things work out, we plan on adopting a kid or two, regardless of how many we end up having. It's called growing up. You have a lot of it to do. I agree with you, and to be completely honest, my militant atheist phase is starting to pass. Nice fallout three meme. +1 I'm sorry, I just disagree with you 100%. Unless you've been with someone who had an abortion, you have no idea what's going through their minds. Is it ending the potential of a human life? Absolutely. Is it murder? No. I, however, respect abortion doctors because they're doing a job that 1 - hardly anyone wants to do, 2 - they're risking their lives to do it, 3 - they're the only ones who are there to help a potential mother through that difficult decision. You could say all you like about abortion being murder, but I honestly believe this society would be worse off if abortion were illegal. We'll agree to disagree on abortion. I suppose that's amiable enough. As for your girlfriends cycles, there's always fertility treatment, its kind of hellish, but it can get results out of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Sorry hooker, but the pregnancy belongs to the female regardless of what the male wants. If a woman doesn't want to go through with a pregnancy, she doesn't have to, and she shouldn't have to. If you really want to legislate what you say you believe, you're going up against not only every feminist in the country, but ANY woman who thinks her say should count as much as a man's. If there were a parallel you could draw when a woman would have control over a man, then maybe it'd be worth listening to, but the closest thing is when a dad has to pay child support for an unwanted kid. Either way, I don't feel bad for the dad. I agree with this in a casual sense as in the case where some random moron knocks up some other one. In any case where the dad is more than a one night stand, I disagree heartily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just to be clear: A. If abortion really were such an awful emotional experience, it would seem women would take the tiniest precautions to avoid it in the first place. Literally millions don't care. B. It's an easy and highly profitable procedure. C. Doctors risk their lives? How many have been killed? Now how many convenient store clerks have been killed because they chose to serve poor communities? D. While we whine about "rights" keep in mind that there is no federal law that prohibits abortion in the last week for any reason. The reasons can include choice of sex, hair color , convenience or just to piss off the spouse. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just to be clear: A. If abortion really were such an awful emotional experience, it would seem women would take the tiniest precautions to avoid it in the first place. Literally millions don't care. B. It's an easy and highly profitable procedure. C. Doctors risk their lives? How many have been killed? Now how many convenient store clerks have been killed because they chose to serve poor communities? D. While we whine about "rights" keep in mind that there is no federal law that prohibits abortion in the last week for any reason. The reasons can include choice of sex, hair color , convenience or just to piss off the spouse ************************************************* A. Part of society is solely involved in self centered existence. In that, caring for the ending of an unborn infant's life goes out the window a lot. B. Some dr.'s make millions. It's a disgrace. Reminds me of the "Silence of the Lambs" movie. Abortion doctors should be imprisoned. C. It isn't easy on the victims - the unborn child and the mother. All too often, a young woman makes that decision, and it causes serious emotional problems for life. It's a tragedy most women don't think about until it's too late. D. There should be. Responsibility has also gone out the window in a pretty sizeable subculture of liberalism in our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just to be clear: A. If abortion really were such an awful emotional experience, it would seem women would take the tiniest precautions to avoid it in the first place. Literally millions don't care. B. It's an easy and highly profitable procedure. C. Doctors risk their lives? How many have been killed? Now how many convenient store clerks have been killed because they chose to serve poor communities? D. While we whine about "rights" keep in mind that there is no federal law that prohibits abortion in the last week for any reason. The reasons can include choice of sex, hair color , convenience or just to piss off the spouse. WSS A: the abortion is only emotional for girls who want their baby or really have mixed feelings about it, in which case I would advise against it. Unfortunately I know two different girls that have had at least three abortions apiece. It's worth noting both those girls are attractive and from decent families, To me, that sort of behaviour is reprehensible and completely lazy and irresponsible. But its happening. And apparently neither thought twice of it. Birth control pills are your friend. B: yes. Yes it is. C: I've heard of attacks on abortionists but can't confirm D: No you're correct there is no law against it at this time. There is, however, nothing granting it as a right. There is , as I recall, an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Does not an abortion infringe upon a tiny American's right to life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just to be clear: A. If abortion really were such an awful emotional experience, it would seem women would take the tiniest precautions to avoid it in the first place. Literally millions don't care. B. It's an easy and highly profitable procedure. C. Doctors risk their lives? How many have been killed? Now how many convenient store clerks have been killed because they chose to serve poor communities? D. While we whine about "rights" keep in mind that there is no federal law that prohibits abortion in the last week for any reason. The reasons can include choice of sex, hair color , convenience or just to piss off the spouse. WSS A. I've had a friend who had an abortion. It was a tough decision, but I don't think it had a traumatic effect on her. The most difficult part of it for her was hiding it from her family. My sample size is only one, so here's something more meaningful. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21486261 If you read the abstract, it says that when all relevant risk factors were considered, there was not a significant difference in the mental health between women who had abortions and women who didn't. It's only one paper, but if you search for abortion depression on that site, you'll see that most of the data shows that there isn't a correlation between abortion and mental illness. The reason that so many people say it's awful for the woman is because of entities who demonize abortion, like the Catholic Church, who willfully misinterpret scientific results. If you read the abstract, you can see how easy it would be to pick and choose. B. Agreed. C. Steve, I will concede that it's unlikely that if you are an abortion doctor, then you're unlikely to be killed by an extremist. That being said, the fear of being killed remains. It's actually much like a 7/11 cashier because while they know that they may be specifically targeted for a robbery, abortion doctors know that they may be specifically targeted for a murder, arson or harassment. The difference between them is that 7/11 cashiers don't have to fear these robbers harassing their families and homes. D. Not sure what point you're trying to make here. There is , as I recall, an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Does not an abortion infringe upon a tiny American's right to life? The Declaration of Independence doesn't hold the force of law in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 As to C, sure I believe there have been attacks. I just don't know how many abortions doctors have actually been killed. Very few, two? One? Hundreds of convenience store clerks. Conversely hundreds of priests. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 As to C, sure I believe there have been attacks. I just don't know how many abortions doctors have actually been killed. Very few, two? One? Hundreds of convenience store clerks. Conversely hundreds of priests. WSS Yeah, priests get killed in Central America in the 80's. Please, do tell, where priests in the U.S. have to fear their lives? http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/history_violence.html In the early 1990s, anti-abortion extremists concluded that murdering providers was the only way to stop abortion. The first provider was murdered in 1993. Since then, there have been seven subsequent murders and numerous attempted murders of clinic staff and physicians, several of which occurred in their own homes. In 2009, NAF member Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed in his church in Wichita, Kansas. You can't seem to differentiate between a clerk getting killed during a robbery and a doctor being killed because of extremism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Lol. I think some of you are just talking out of your ass about what women think and feel lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yeah, priests get killed in Central America in the 80's. Please, do tell, where priests in the U.S. have to fear their You can't seem to differentiate between a clerk getting killed during a robbery and a doctor being killed because of extremism. Sure I can. I'm talking to pure numbers. 1 or 2 doctors does not make an epidemic. No more than 1 or 2 priests killed by atheists such as yourself. Bottom line: the clerks job is infinitely more dangerous. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/30/mormon-bishop-shot-dead-in-california/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://m.upi.com/story/UPI-37221256337198/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/01/19/philly-doctor-facing-8-counts-of-murder/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://abitadeacon.blogspot.com/2011/07/tragic-news-murder-of-northshore-priest.html?m=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yes, I believe in equal rights. This isn't that though. I believe in equal rights where they apply and there are actual discrepancies. Its not your pregnancy and it is not your body. You aren't suffering through all the symptoms for 9 months and you aren't the one possibly risking your life (rarely) at the end. Sure, you provided some DNA, and because of that you should have a say. But not as much as the female. I wouldn't expect a female to have as much say as the man in regards to the guy getting a vasectomy either. But see Woody, you miss the point. I am not advocating the woman has to have the abortion. I am simply saying the man is able to abort his rights as parent of the child and won't be required to pay for the child's upbringing. It's the woman's choice as what to do at that point. If a woman can abandon her responsibility, a man should as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 That's not the same thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Steve, in any of your articles where does it say the priest was killed for being a priest? Also, where do any of them say he was killed by an atheist? Also, why do we get to have pages of arguments about abortion but none about religion.... Bummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Steve, in any of your articles where does it say the priest was killed for being a priest? Also, where do any of them say he was killed by an atheist? Also, why do we get to have pages of arguments about abortion but none about religion.... Bummer No idea woody, I didn't read em either. Just saying that there are crazy bastards out there. Of course if you actually believe that a late term abortion for nothing but convenience is killing a child..... you might think killing a doctor that has done that thousands of times, well you understand. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-11/justice/michigan.shooting_1_anti-abortion-harlan-james-drake-shooting-deaths?_s=PM:CRIME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://www.chinabuzz.net/buzz/7-month-pregnant-mother-forced-to-abort-by-family-planning-authority/ Oh China. How liberals would love to become you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Steve, in any of your articles where does it say the priest was killed for being a priest? Also, where do any of them say he was killed by an atheist? Also, why do we get to have pages of arguments about abortion but none about religion.... Bummer Lol, this has got to be one of the worst arguments I've ever seen by him. He talks about how priests are being killed because they're priests, and being killed by atheists (like me), then his evidence is a bunch of articles that he didn't read about priests being murdered. haha, I mean sure, abortion doctors have it bad, but let me see how many unemployed have been murdered. I bet the numbers are bigger there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=7906881 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 That's not the same thing... Sure it is Woody. Explain in detail why it isn't. Equal rights. You said you were for them, no?? I'll state it again. If a woman can abort her responsibility of being a parent, a father should as well. Tell me why that shouldn't be if you believe in equal rights. I have no problem with a woman aborting a child if she was raped, or there was some physical reason, mother or child, but really, the abortions performed for those reasons have to be a small percentage compared to the total. Do you think most abortions are for those reasons?? I don't think you're that dumb. I think you know not may are done because of rape or physical reasons. The majority by a large margin are done for reasons of convenience. Again, why should a man not be allowed those same conveniences?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted July 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 The fetus is part of a woman's body. You want to give control of a woman's body to someone that is not her. See my above post and then make an argument as to why it should be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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