We need Tom Tupa Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Brian Schotty could beg out of the last year of his deal in NY soon. There are also reports that Gruden could displace Weiss at ND as soon as the recruits are signed. Wouldnt those both be logical and preferable OC candidates to the guy we signed? Any chance we still get one? Gruden to ND might be a long shot, but if Weiss is free, wouldnt Mangini and Quinn make Cleveland and comfortable spot for him to land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titleist585 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Brian Schotty could beg out of the last year of his deal in NY soon. There are also reports that Gruden could displace Weiss at ND as soon as the recruits are signed. Wouldnt those both be logical and preferable OC candidates to the guy we signed? Any chance we still get one? Gruden to ND might be a long shot, but if Weiss is free, wouldnt Mangini and Quinn make Cleveland and comfortable spot for him to land? It could happen. It would be a swift kick in the junk to Brian Daboll though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Any chance we still get one? Gruden to ND might be a long shot, but if Weiss is free, wouldnt Mangini and Quinn make Cleveland and comfortable spot for him to land? Before you link Mangini and Quinn at the hip, keep this in mind... The Jets picked 14th in the 2007 draft and did not draft Quinn. Instead they decided to hold a competition between Chad Pennington and Kellen Clemens. In other words, Mangini would rather have Pennington or Clemens over Quinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Before you link Mangini and Quinn at the hip, keep this in mind... The Jets picked 14th in the 2007 draft and did not draft Quinn. Instead they decided to hold a competition between Chad Pennington and Kellen Clemens. In other words, Mangini would rather have Pennington or Clemens over Quinn. Once again, you speak without thinking (aside from only talking about Quinn and DA). Clemens was the NYJ's first pick in round 2 in 2006. They thought he was their QB of the future. Which is why they weren't picking a QB in round 1 last year. The Jets and every other team had picks in many rounds in 2005 and didn't draft DA. Heck, he wasn't even talked about as a day 1 pick. So what was your point again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Its a longshot at best that mangini would name daboll then unseat him for weiss...i dont think mangini rolls that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Brian Schotty could beg out of the last year of his deal in NY soon. There are also reports that Gruden could displace Weiss at ND as soon as the recruits are signed. Wouldnt those both be logical and preferable OC candidates to the guy we signed? Any chance we still get one? Gruden to ND might be a long shot, but if Weiss is free, wouldnt Mangini and Quinn make Cleveland and comfortable spot for him to land? Why does name recognition and pure speculation always revert to "the grass being greener on the other side". Schot will most likely stay with Ryan. Then again, what makes him the better choice, name recognition. It is so easy to second guess. What makes McDaniel, Sagnoula or Rex Ryan locks as NFL HCs. We only know that they were very good coordinators. All Gruden has done in the last 4 years is parade QBs in and out of TB. He hasn't won a thing. What's wrong with our coordinators and special teams coaches? Why do you think someone else would be a better fit for what Mangini wants to do? What's Weis done to be drolling over him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Latest reports have Schottenheimer wanting to get out of his deal & Rex Ryan saying he wants to bring in Ravens QB Coach Hue Jackson to be his OC. I'm not a big fan of Schottenheimer or Weis. But I think Tupa has a point, at least in a less strong form: rushing to hire coordinators doesn't guarantee you're getting the best guys. In fact, former Lions HC Rod Marinelli said that one of his biggest mistakes as head coach was hiring his coordinators too quickly. Because of that, I think the Mangini hire has to be defended on its own merits, not because an early hire somehow yields the best OC & DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standish Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Why does name recognition and pure speculation always revert to "the grass being greener on the other side". Schot will most likely stay with Ryan. Then again, what makes him the better choice, name recognition. It is so easy to second guess. What makes McDaniel, Sagnoula or Rex Ryan locks as NFL HCs. We only know that they were very good coordinators. All Gruden has done in the last 4 years is parade QBs in and out of TB. He hasn't won a thing. Bruce Allen repeatedly blocked Gruden from picking QB's high in the draft, eg. Brady Quinn and Trent Edwards in 07, both of whom he wanted. Gruden does have a good overall recordthough and is well known as a bit of a QB guru so i think the Bucs failed him a little bit by neglecting to draft one high at any point. Id rather have Daboll than Schottenheimer though, Schottenheimer's play calling in 07 when the Jets went 4-12 was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Why does name recognition and pure speculation always revert to "the grass being greener on the other side". Schot will most likely stay with Ryan. Then again, what makes him the better choice, name recognition. It is so easy to second guess. What makes McDaniel, Sagnoula or Rex Ryan locks as NFL HCs. We only know that they were very good coordinators. All Gruden has done in the last 4 years is parade QBs in and out of TB. He hasn't won a thing. What's wrong with our coordinators and special teams coaches? Why do you think someone else would be a better fit for what Mangini wants to do? What's Weis done to be drolling over him? /agree completely.. Name recognition means nothing at some point all big names were no names most highly touted names fail or are average all the "for real big names" usually start off like belichick or cowher or marty..and have a decent structure to feed off of..brian shottenheimer was overlooked by the jets yet again any reasons we dont know about? I openly admit i like what mangini has thrown together we have the making of one hell of a coaching staff and potentially the FO...and i like the way lerner is handling the entire process he knew what he wanted and he pursued mangini immediately when he became available... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 To be honest, I don't want to be anywhere near a team with Weiss...he had a gastric by-pass that is a high risk surgery, and told so, and sued when his went badly like he was told it was very likely his could.....so no....screw Weiss. He has weak mind IMO...he isn't a cowboy....he's soft. I don''t want him on my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Brian Schotty could beg out of the last year of his deal in NY soon. There are also reports that Gruden could displace Weiss at ND as soon as the recruits are signed. Wouldnt those both be logical and preferable OC candidates to the guy we signed? Any chance we still get one? Gruden to ND might be a long shot, but if Weiss is free, wouldnt Mangini and Quinn make Cleveland and comfortable spot for him to land? Hell we signed the head coach to quickly..............just wondering who is the GM who should have a input to hiring the head coach..........oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We need Tom Tupa Posted January 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 In response to a few posts: I wish people would stop quoting Lum. Blocking him isnt good enough anymore. We have more than name recognition to suggest that Schotty would be a better OC than Daboll. We have the fact that Mangini ran a staff in which Schotty outranked Daboll. Did I miss Mangini trying to reverse those roles? I like that Lerner hired the guy he wanted, and with Kok coming in, I'm not as concerned about how it may have affected our GM search. I wanted to have both guys in before the SB, and it looks like we will. But I dont understand why we rushed to hire Daboll, unless he was in high demand elsewhere, which I havent seen. A lot of teams will be shifting their staffs over the next couple of weeks, but we arent in a position to take advantage of that. If Mangini got the best guy for the job, then great. I'm just concerned that we didnt stop to consider the type of guys that would be available...and I only mentioned the few guys with Mangini connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumcrazy73 Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Before you link Mangini and Quinn at the hip, keep this in mind... The Jets picked 14th in the 2007 draft and did not draft Quinn. Instead they decided to hold a competition between Chad Pennington and Kellen Clemens. In other words, Mangini would rather have Pennington or Clemens over Quinn. or did you ever think that they needed other things besides just a QB so they figured the other part Fergison I think and Clemons, was better then just Quinn. It was a gamble, just like we passed on Quinn and went for Thomas, and then went back for Quinn. Why cause DA did not show enough to the FO to say he you don't need him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'm not a beleiver that Mangini suddenly appeared on the market and we grabbed him. Behind closed doors the networking of FO talk has always been far ahead of what we in the public know or hear about. Not a conspiracy theory just some good ol'boy backroom dealing. Like the Cowher scene, Lerner knew he wasn't coming but for the publics point of view, an interview of sorts was fashioned for the media. There is probaly a good chance this staff was put together awhile ago in some mock sort of way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 I was also concerned with how quickly we hired a head coach, we didn't even wait for the dust to settle, but at least Lerner saw the guy he wanted and went after him no matter what the fans or media said, I respect that. However with the GM, we are doing it in reverse to a certain extent, but at least we'll have a GM and coach on the same page, but much like NE, the coach is going to be the HNIC (head nigga in charge) and the GM is going to negotiate contracts and manage the cap. I like that setup, I want a coach who has the guys HE PICKED on gameday, not players that were thrust upon him by the GM. So it could work. Time will tell. So do you beleive that Kokinos and Mangini have never spoken specifically about the Browns and working together, before Mangini was formally hired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Since they both worked together here in the 90's it's a distinct possibility. But being on the same page is key, and I really believe these two guys have the same vision for the team. RAC was sorta like a babysitter coach, he never had a vision, he couldn't persue anytype of certain player because Phil was calling the shots and had very different idea's on what it will take to be a winner. I agree, but i also beleive there has been talks about the positions prior to the hirings and not just interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencyguy Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Brian Schotty could beg out of the last year of his deal in NY soon. There are also reports that Gruden could displace Weiss at ND as soon as the recruits are signed. Wouldnt those both be logical and preferable OC candidates to the guy we signed? Any chance we still get one? Gruden to ND might be a long shot, but if Weiss is free, wouldnt Mangini and Quinn make Cleveland and comfortable spot for him to land? I read this a bit earlier...I've always been in favor of giving kids the right to transfer to another school with no penalty when another coach is brought in--the college game is based much more on the coach's philosophy than the NFL, and coaches have the power to tell a kid who has a scholarship, "Oh, sorry, it's just not working out, so you won't be getting your scholarship next year," so it makes the players seem just slightly less like, well, serfs if they can decide that the new coach's system probably won't work out for them. Stories like this one only convince me even more of the point. If ND screws its recreuits over by making sure they can't bail and then firing Coach Chunk, I would imagine that every time a competing team is fighting for one of their recruits, they'll bring it up. Although who is Notre Dame recruiting against at this point? Washington? Idaho State? Duke? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I read this a bit earlier...I've always been in favor of giving kids the right to transfer to another school with no penalty when another coach is brought in--the college game is based much more on the coach's philosophy than the NFL, and coaches have the power to tell a kid who has a scholarship, "Oh, sorry, it's just not working out, so you won't be getting your scholarship next year," so it makes the players seem just slightly less like, well, serfs if they can decide that the new coach's system probably won't work out for them. Stories like this one only convince me even more of the point. If ND screws its recreuits over by making sure they can't bail and then firing Coach Chunk, I would imagine that every time a competing team is fighting for one of their recruits, they'll bring it up. Although who is Notre Dame recruiting against at this point? Washington? Idaho State? Duke? Dennis Notre Dame isn't hiring Gruden. Come on man, you can't believe every half ass rumor going around. Want to cause a hugh internet hit, then throw out some BS rumor and you get a million hits. I love it when every move is second guessed because someone else just popped free. 5 other teams hired new coaches and passed on Gruden also, some first time unproven coordinators. Do you think their could be a reason he's still out there? Somebody will eventually will hire him, but as of right know, the line isn't forming at the door. Sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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