Channing Crowder unlikely to re-sign

[Guest Aloysius]

Channing Crowder’s return to Dolphins is doubtful

 

By Edgar Thompson

 

MOBILE, Ala. - Linebacker Channing Crowder’s days with the Miami Dolphins appear to be numbered.

 

Crowder, a four-year starter, is in the final year of his contract, but the Dolphins haven’t been eager to re-sign him to a new deal.

 

The Dolphins and representatives for Crowder cannot agree on terms, an NFL source said Monday. In fact, the two sides are not close on what Crowder should be paid to remain with the team.

 

Crowder, who earned a base salary of $1 million last season, turned 25 on Dec. 2, has made 50 NFL starts and is coming a career-high 113 tackles.

 

He does have a history of knee problems and missed a Dec. 21 matchup at Kansas City because of soreness in his knee. The Chiefs had 492 yards of offense, including 180 rushing - the most allowed by the Dolphins this season.

 

A week later, Crowder had a team-high nine tackles during a 24-17 win at the New York Jets. AFC leading rusher Thomas Jones finished with a season-low 23 rushing yards on 10 carries.

 

Crowder has expressed his frustration with his contract situation and questioned the team’s priorities.

 

Last month, he told The Palm Beach Post, “I don’t see your signal caller, four-year starter playing his whole contract out. But I don’t know the game like that.”

 

Unless something dramatically changes, Crowder will be in a different uniform next season.

[PB&J]

If we can get Crowder, one of either Canty/Olshanksy and draft Orakpo or Everette Brown at #5 we would seriously have a solid front seven. Crowder can play. Then we can draft offense in round two. Or we can draft crabtree and try to get a pass rusher in round 2.

 

Go get him Phil... erm, Kok?

[Guest Aloysius]

Crowder would be a perfect fit for our defense, but I worry about his knees.

 

Here's a report about Crowder's knee problems...in high school:

 

Born Randolph Channing Crowder, the son of former NFL defensive lineman Randy Crowder was a standout linebacker at North Springs (Atlanta, Ga.) High School. He was a consensus All-American choice as a senior, recording 114 tackles with 7.5 sacks while also seeing action at tailback, where he gained 800 yards. That season’s high soon gave way to the realization that Channing might never play college football. He underwent knee surgery as a sophomore, where he had a ligament transplant. After his senior year, Channing again underwent surgery, this time on both of his knees. Shortly after his 18th birthday on December 2, 2001, he had surgery. There was a second surgery on the left knee in April 2002, to repair problems from another operation his sophomore year in high school. He'd had another surgery in which the ligament of a cadaver was used to replace the other damaged anterior cruciate ligament. Two years later, the knee had rejected the transplant. Both knees have been repaired by taking the middle one-third of the patella tendon to replace the ACLs. He worked diligently to get back in shape, but had to sit out the 2002 season -- not enrolling at Florida to save a year of eligibility.

I'm hoping we can get a discount on Crowder because of those knee (and some character) concerns, but that doesn't appear likely. Instead, we'll be giving a lot of guaranteed money to a guy with some serious knee issues.

 

And that scares the hell out of me.

[JewDago]

he certainly sounds like a great option. if we pick up a decent ILB in FA, it would definitely alter our draft strategy. we could focus on offense or pass rusher in the first instead of having to go ILB.

[ballpeen]

Crowder is a pretty good kid and a pretty good player, but yes, he does have some injury baggage.

[standish]

Id like to take a chance on Crowder, maybe on a 3 year deal, he's definately good and whilst his injury history is worrying he only missed 1 game last season and we dont have that much cash to throw around so we may need to risk it a bit anyway. If we got him i think we'd need an OLB + DE with our 1st 2 picks and then go WR + RB with whatever we get from trading DA and our fourth round pick.

[Guest Aloysius]

I'm trying to figure out what kind of market there will be for Crowder this offseason. Based on his play this year, I'm guessing 3-4 teams will value him more than 4-3 squads. Tampa 2 teams probably won't even look at him, as he's not known for being good in coverage.

 

Here are the 3-4 teams who could be in the market for another ILB:

• Denver - Mike Nolan needs a guy to pair with D.J. Williams inside. Either it's Maualuga in the draft or a guy in free agency. They may be less willing to give big money to Crowder because they're alread paying Williams a lot (6 years, $32M)

• Dallas - Those Ray Lewis rumors suggest Dallas is in the market for another ILB, but Crowder isn't nearly the locker room presence Lewis is. It's possible that Crowder's goofy demeanor could even make things in Dallas worse.

• New York Jets - They're expected to lose Eric Barton in free agency. But if they can't afford Barton, they won't be able to pay Crowder.

And here are some non-Tampa 2 teams that may be interested in Crowder:

• Cincinatti - Dhani Jones isn't a long-term solution at ILB. The only problem is that Crowder played weakside linebacker when the Dolphins played a 4-3, and Keith Rivers is already penciled in at that spot.

• New Orleans - Don't know enough about new DC Gregg Williams' scheme to know whether he'd be a good fit, but the Saints need to get better at all of their LB spots.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

If we can get Crowder, one of either Canty/Olshanksy and draft Orakpo or Everette Brown at #5 we would seriously have a solid front seven. Crowder can play. Then we can draft offense in round two. Or we can draft crabtree and try to get a pass rusher in round 2.

 

Go get him Phil... erm, Kok?

 

Crowder Yes, but we only have so much money under the cap. Why Canty when you already have Williams and Robaire Smith at DE. We need a pass rusher not another read and react DE to hold the point of attack. Remember what a DE does in this scheme, he is not a pass rusher.

 

[PB&J]

Canty or Olshansky will not be that expensive, compared to what we paid for Corey Williams. Robaire is coming off of a torn achilles, and no matter what the reports say now he is a question mark. Remember when reports said LeChuck and Baxter were ahead of schedule?

 

Plus we do need either another starter or at least a rotating defensive end that is not 325+ pounds and cant move laterally. The problem with the rush defense isn't just the linebackers, we were playing a natural nose tackle at the end spot in Shaun smith and corey Williams was asked to gain weight for Romeo's stupid idea that 3-4 DEs need to be 330 pounds. The ends have to be athletic too, and adding either of those two would add a bit of pass rush and the ability to work down the line. Plus, we can always use depth. The only true defensive ends we have for the 3-4 are Corey Williams and Robaire. Behind them is Santonio Thomas and Louis Leonard.

[standish]

Get someone better than Robaire Smith, improve the production of Corey Williams in his 2nd season in the scheme and we might turn a weakness this season into a strength next season. What worries me is that the Dolphins aren't anywhere near Crowders asking price, is he asking for loads or do they not value him for some reason?

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Canty or Olshansky will not be that expensive, compared to what we paid for Corey Williams. Robaire is coming off of a torn achilles, and no matter what the reports say now he is a question mark. Remember when reports said LeChuck and Baxter were ahead of schedule?

 

Plus we do need either another starter or at least a rotating defensive end that is not 325+ pounds and cant move laterally. The problem with the rush defense isn't just the linebackers, we were playing a natural nose tackle at the end spot in Shaun smith and corey Williams was asked to gain weight for Romeo's stupid idea that 3-4 DEs need to be 330 pounds. The ends have to be athletic too, and adding either of those two would add a bit of pass rush and the ability to work down the line. Plus, we can always use depth. The only true defensive ends we have for the 3-4 are Corey Williams and Robaire. Behind them is Santonio Thomas and Louis Leonard.

 

Leonard, Purcells and Thomas are decent backups but LBs make the 3-4 work and IMO we need pass rushers. 3-4 DEs are basically DTs and can be had real cheap. I want to spend the money on guys who can stuff the run, put pressure on the QB and guys who can defend in the secondary. If we are going to spend big bucks on a grunt then I'd rather have a OT.

 

I would take Canty if we could trade Cory Williams to a team looking for a one gap pass rushing DT. The man played great in that scheme in Green Bay, he isn't as effective in the 3-4.

 

[D'Qwimbley]

So if we pick up Crowder or Barton, who do we draft? At that point, I think you trade down, and if you can't, you take Beanie. I don't care if its a reach, i hate that word. I'd rather have the top RB in the draft which is a need than take BPA when its not a need. I'm starting to grow to the idea of Crabtree though. I DONT want another 43 DE to switch to 34 OLB though. It fails way more than it works (I know, Merriman), and Orakpo's Bio looks the EXACT same as Wimbley's. I want Sintim if we're taking an OLB.

[Guest Aloysius]

Not sure that Corey Williams was ever great as a 4-3 DT. If you break him down game by game, virtually all of his sacks in '07 came in the games in which he was brought in on passing downs. When he started, he was decent against the run, but he didn't have a lot of sacks.

 

And DE's in a 3-4 do need to be pass-rushers. Anyone who disagrees with that needs to explain why the Jets' sack leader in '08 was a DE (Shaun Ellis).

 

Definitely not the norm, but it shows that 3-4 DE's not in Romeo's fat guy 3-4 actually get after the QB.

[Guest Aloysius]

Yeah, his knees are a bit like Winslow's -- he's well removed from surgery, but they're never going to be right. He'll miss games.

 

I really think Plan B is Mangini brings in Eric Barton to be a veteran presence who knows how to play that defense, we draft Everette Brown, and we look at an ILB in round 3-ish, where the Steelers find them on an annual basis.

 

Plan A being Curry or Maualuga.

The Winslow comparison's a good one.

 

As for Plan A/PlanB: the problem is we'll be making FA moves before the draft. We won't know if Curry will be available at 5 when we're bidding on Crowder and Barton.

 

So FA will determine our draft moves. Or, conversely, our draft board will determine what position we fill in FA.

 

There could be some interesting dynamics there, considering we're hiring a former pro personnel scout to work with a draft guy he didn't hire.

 

Hope it works out...

[PB&J]

The only problem I would have with Crowder is if we re-signed Sean Jones too. We would have two key members of our defense with major knee injuries in their past. Eric Barton is a more realistic target for us. The way I look at it all is that we should sign mid-level guys to fill out the roster and get our stars through draft. Our defense could get good fast if we signed a couple of guys like Canty, Olshansky, Crowder or Barton and then turned around and drafted a Curry or Orakpo.

[Squintz]

The only problem I would have with Crowder is if we re-signed Sean Jones too. We would have two key members of our defense with major knee injuries in their past. Eric Barton is a more realistic target for us. The way I look at it all is that we should sign mid-level guys to fill out the roster and get our stars through draft. Our defense could get good fast if we signed a couple of guys like Canty, Olshansky, Crowder or Barton and then turned around and drafted a Curry or Orakpo.

I agree. You can't win with guys that are hurt. I'd take Barton over Crowder based solely on the fact that Crowders knees are crap.

[JewDago]

we're making a bit more out of crowder's injury than it really is. he plays an intensely physical position and missed a single game last year with sore knees, not broken knees.

 

is there reason for some small concern? yes. should it force us to shy away from a good player entirely? no.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

So if we pick up Crowder or Barton, who do we draft? At that point, I think you trade down, and if you can't, you take Beanie. I don't care if its a reach, i hate that word. I'd rather have the top RB in the draft which is a need than take BPA when its not a need. I'm starting to grow to the idea of Crabtree though. I DONT want another 43 DE to switch to 34 OLB though. It fails way more than it works (I know, Merriman), and Orakpo's Bio looks the EXACT same as Wimbley's. I want Sintim if we're taking an OLB.

 

Crabtree is like Fitzgerald, a game changer. This is not Edwards with a history of drops in college. As much as I love him, Beanie's stock will drop and he won't even be the first back taken. You don't take a power back with a injury history in the top 15. Everette Brown may be a game changer. Curry is solid and a need, but is he a game changer?

 

If you have a top 5 pick, you better be looking for a game changer. Go get Barton and get Simtin in round 2 and grab Crabtree. He is the biggest game changer on the board.

 

 

[Guest Aloysius]

I think the question about Crabtree is whether he has elite breakaway speed. Then again, people said the same thing about Fitzgerald.

[JewDago]

it's funny; with what we've been discussing in free agency and the draft, it seems like a gamebreaker at any position is someone we definitely have to consider taking in the first, especially one who's dependable.

 

however, getting a big-time offensive player in the first absolutely requires that we be active in free agency and also necessitates that the right things happen in the draft.

 

in FA, we need to sign an ILB because this is a deeper draft at OLB than ILB. the more we learn about rey, the more it seems like he has neither the work ethic nor the instinct for the league. could cushing play ILB? it's arguably the most physical of the LBs and would make his injury history more of a concern. brandon spikes is an option, too, but physically similar to d'qwell, which could steer us away in pursuit of a banger.

 

two guys we've talked about a bit less are worrell williams from cal and jasper brinkley from south carolina. neither has elite speed, but both could become serviceable players in the 3-4 as run stuffers. brinkley has injury issues (tore knee ligaments, minor ankle injury), but his size is terrifying to RBs and QBs; he weighs 275 and can run a 4.7 and is a very effective blitzer because of those.

 

williams is a bit small at 6 feet even, but has been described as 'thick' and 'aggressive' and as someone who 'lays the wood,' the basic things you'd want out of your ILB.

 

however, those there are some prospects at ILB, there seems to be far more on the outside with larry english, clint sintim, everette brown, aaron maybin and, to a lesser extent, clay matthews, jr., who i think is a bit more of a sentimental pick than a practical one.

 

let's also not forget that we have no idea what beau bell can do at ILB, though i'd be surprised to see him emerge as a starter. we got him in the fourth, and while guys can come out of the fourth and be extremely effective, it doesn't bode well for him that he missed his rookie season. he's still got a lot of learning to do.

 

therefore, getting a pass rusher or an ILB in free agency would allow us to look at drafting a playmaker in the first. if we go that route, i'd like to see us trade down to somewhere in fourteen to eighteen, get extra picks and make a run at percy harvin, a guy who i think will be a truly special player in the right offense.

 

i don't know enough about crabtree aside from what i've heard, which is that he'll light the world on fire in the pros. he, too, is obviously an option if we stay at five and he falls that far. given that scenario, it's likely we could entice someone to trade up to get him.

 

does crabtree fight for the ball like fitzgerald does? if so, he's a far more intriguing prospect. that's a rare trait, and, as we've all seen this postseason, an incredibly valuable one.

[Guest Aloysius]

Great post, JD. About the guys you've mentioned:

• Cushing played ILB one game this year when Rey was hurt & didn't look good. May not be good enough sifting through the trash to play inside.

• Worrell Williams actually reminds me of D'Qwell Jackson a little bit. He's 5'10 3/4", 242 lbs., and probably is maxed out physically. If we draft him, he's more likely to serve as DQ's backup.

• Brinkley is a poor man's Maualuga. Great size, but not very good at recognizing plays. That knee injury also stripped him of some of his speed & athleticism.

Here are a few more names to consider:

• Zack Follett, Cal - only measured in at 6'1", 231 lbs. today, but he was very productive as an OLB in Cal's 3-4 (10.5 sacks, 23 TFL's). He'll likely move inside in the pro's, as evidenced by his playing ILB at the Senior Bowl practices (he's struggled thus far).

• Frantz Joseph, Florida Atlantic - looked great in the bowl game I watched. Goes 6'2", 235, and reportedly runs a 40 in the low 4.7's. May need a year or two to develop, but he could end up being a solid 3-4 ILB.

[JewDago]

i saw williams listed at 250; that's what made me think he wouldn't be a d'qwell clone and would be a good complement to him. with him being a bit smaller, i'm less enthused.

 

follett and joseph both seem extremely small for the 3-4. though they can add weight and strength, it'd be great to find someone who's a bit more ready to fit the system. however, if we pick guys who are somewhat undersized, it's good to know we have viable options.

 

brinkley really makes me wish we'd gone to a one-gap system. though he lost a bit of his athletic ability, i just want to see him shoot the A gap and destroy people, which i'm sure he will when he gets drafted by either baltimore or pittsburgh. he seems the kind of monster those teams go after.

[Guest Aloysius]

Yeah, Follett and Joseph will need a year to develop. Scott Wright's comment about Follett from the Senior Bowl weigh-in was "Looks like he needs to hit the weights."

 

But as you said, it's a function of having a draft with 1-2 top 3-4 ILB prospects, then a couple Day Two developmental guys. I wouldn't be surprised if people start talking about Clay Matthews as a 3-4 ILB (he looked good playing linebacker today).

 

One thing we've missed: Clint Sintim is said to be versatile enough to play inside or out, though his best fit is likely outside. Anyway, mocks increasingly have him off the board before our second pick.

[JewDago]

especially with denver and green bay going to the 3-4, sintim will be gone in the late first for sure. 22-25 seems about the range for him, i think.

 

however, there could always be a position run at 3-4 OLB with a bunch of teams freaking out and all trading into position to get the specific player they want, which, with all the 3-4 OLBs in this draft, seems probable.

[ballpeen]

Just clicking.....no matter what we do in FA, I still don't think it should change the top of your draft very much.

 

If Crabtree was there, I don't see how it could be a wrong pick...same with Curry....same with Smith....I myself favor Andre Smith...I have never felt you can go wrong with a stud O-line....Smith and Thomas would make it stud.

 

Now before people start telling me why we won't do that, save the time...i know we won't do that....just saying we should.

 

 

Now to the real message...we need picks...the ideal IMO is to finally trade down a bit....and the way this draft is shaping up, we might be in a good spot for that to happen. Someone always falls in love with some player...and 5 is a good place for a team to try to move if the guy they like is still on the board...someone is going to be sitting there at 5 that someone feels they have to have.

 

Dropping 10 slots to pick up 2-3 picks works for me. We not only need quality, but we are in a position where we need some quantity as well. I think we might be able to pick up some quantity without sacrificing too much in the way of quality....it is a pretty deep draft down through 120 or so.

[Guest Aloysius]

Just clicking.....no matter what we do in FA, I still don't think it should change the top of your draft very much.

I think it could. If we give Channing Crowder a 5 year, $25M deal, it may be hard to justify taking another ILB in Aaron Curry at 5. Sure, he'd be BPA, but it'd be hard to draft a 3rd ILB when we may not even have a legit OLB on our roster.

[Guest Aloysius]

especially with denver and green bay going to the 3-4, sintim will be gone in the late first for sure. 22-25 seems about the range for him, i think.

 

however, there could always be a position run at 3-4 OLB with a bunch of teams freaking out and all trading into position to get the specific player they want, which, with all the 3-4 OLBs in this draft, seems probable.

I agree. The Patriots could be in the market for another OLB (depending on what they think of Crable). More importantly, the Ravens will be looking at rush backers if they lose Suggs; teams likely will try to trade up ahead of them to get the guy they have highest ranked.

 

EDIT: The Dolphins are also in the market for another OLB.

 

Just read that the Browns' representatives at the Senior Bowl spoke to Cal's Zack Follett. Though it doesn't guarantee anything (our scouts were all over Buster Davis a few years ago), Follett is someone to put on the list of ILB options. Could be a guy we pick up in the 4th Round.

[ballpeen]

I think it could. If we give Channing Crowder a 5 year, $25M deal, it may be hard to justify taking another ILB in Aaron Curry at 5. Sure, he'd be BPA, but it'd be hard to draft a 3rd ILB when we may not even have a legit OLB on our roster.

 

I do understand the point and understand the reality is it can change your approach....but for me anyway, the first pick needs to be viewed with long term lenses v looking at the next season, at least when you are a team like us who isn't a player away from possibly grabbing the brass ring.

 

Over the course of 10 years, Curry could hardly be viewed as a poor or unwise pick though I do agree it might not be the best pick to help us win a few more games next season if we pick up a backer or two in FA.