Close Gitmo?

[heckofajobbrownie]

Today the President says he's going to try, once again, to get Congress to go along with closing Gitmo.

 

Q: [From Bill Plante]:Mr. President, as you’re probably aware, there’s a growing hunger strike at Guantanamo Bay, among prisoners there. Is it any surprise, really, that they would prefer death rather than have no end in sight to their confinement?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, it is not a surprise to me that we’ve got problems in Guantanamo, which is why, when I was campaigning in 2007 and 2008 and when I was elected in 2008, I said we need to close Guantanamo.

I continue to believe that we’ve got to close Guantanamo. I think — well, you know, I think it is critical for us to understand that Guantanamo is not necessary to keep America safe. It is expensive. It is inefficient. It hurts us in terms of our international standing. It lessens cooperation with our allies on counterterrorism efforts. It is a recruitment tool for extremists. It needs to be closed.

Now Congress determined that they would not let us close it and despite the fact that there are a number of the folks who are currently in Guantanamo who the courts have said could be returned to their country of origin or potentially a third country.

I’m going to go back at this. I’ve asked my team to review everything that’s currently being done in Guantanamo, everything that we can do administratively, and I’m going to re-engage with Congress to try to make the case that this is not something that’s in the best interests of the American people.

 

This is something President Bush said we should do. It's something President Obama tried to do. Who thinks we should close it and why, and who thinks it should stay open and why?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I don't care. Fuck em all. I'd rather kill them then let them go though. How many times have we released prisoners from there and they come back and hit us again? This is just political bullshit from Obama who really could care less about Gitmo or it would have been closed years ago.

[VaporTrail]

 

 

It is expensive. It is inefficient. It hurts us in terms of our international standing. It lessens cooperation with our allies on counterterrorism efforts. It is a recruitment tool for extremists. It needs to be closed.

 

What a fucking hypocrite. He could just as easily be talking about the drone strikes.

[heckofajobbrownie]

So what do you do about Guantanamo?

 

PS - Drones strikes are less expensive and very efficient, though I'll give you the international standing, lessening cooperation on counterterrorism, and recruitment tool parts.

[Westside Steve]

Seriously, who cares?

 

I haven't checked the exact numbers but I'd say that your drone strikes kill a lot more women and babies than gitmo.

 

But they probably deserved it too...

 

WSS

[VaporTrail]

So what do you do about Guantanamo?

 

PS - Drones strikes are less expensive and very efficient, though I'll give you the international standing, lessening cooperation on counterterrorism, and recruitment tool parts.

 

They're efficient, sure, but I'm not sure you can say they're less expensive. Though the drones are unmanned, the maintenance, piloting, and parsing of data for each drone requires about 50 people. I don't have a source for that, but just saw it in a presentation from one of AFRL's chief scientists. Those things are pretty costly.

[FairHooker11]

I question the presidents original plan to close gitmo then incarcerate them here in America - Leavenworth?

 

And Holders plan to try them in NYC?

 

If thats his idea of closing Gitmo again, I say no thanks...

 

And if he (Obama) says its because we dont have international standing, lessens cooperation with allies on counterterrorism efforts,

 

and is a recruitment tool for extremists, then maybe he doesnt understand that they (Islamic extremist groups) have no respect for weakness and

 

indecision, rather strength and resolve to punish. They will stop at nothing to accomplish that.... why does Obama waiver? International approval?

 

the apologies were not enough? lol

[heckofajobbrownie]

 

They're efficient, sure, but I'm not sure you can say they're less expensive. Though the drones are unmanned, the maintenance, piloting, and parsing of data for each drone requires about 50 people. I don't have a source for that, but just saw it in a presentation from one of AFRL's chief scientists. Those things are pretty costly.

 

I'm talking about as opposed to using traditional ground forces, in which case they're far less expensive.

[VaporTrail]

 

I'm talking about as opposed to using traditional ground forces, in which case they're far less expensive.

 

No argument from me on that one.

[heckofajobbrownie]

So what about Gitmo?

 

I think closing it is long overdue. But, of course, Congress is in the way and that's probably not going to change.

[blowe]

 

What a fucking hypocrite. He could just as easily be talking about the drone strikes.

Not to mention the man claimed he would close gitmo when he ran for office the first time. How did that work out? I'm still amazed this dickhead received as many votes as he did. It really says something about the ignorance of this country.

[VaporTrail]

Not to mention the man claimed he would close gitmo when he ran for office the first time. How did that work out? I'm still amazed this dickhead received as many votes as he did. It really says something about the ignorance of this country.

 

i vote for the lesser of two evils. Still glad that Romney wasn't elected.

[blowe]

Lesser of the two evils.. lol that's good. I'm going to save us both a lot of time and not get into this one with ya

[Westside Steve]

crying about gitmo is a complete waste of time. I I have no doubt, after talking to Susan's son who was a guard there for years, that the conditions in American prisons are probably a lot lot worse. According to him you got reamed out for showing the slightest disrespect to the prisoners. I doubt that's the case in the state pens here.

and let's say you had a choice of serving your time there or in Afghanistan or Iraq or Iran or Saudi Arabia prison?and does anyone believe that it's a serious recruitment tool for AQ?

even if it was how much more will they love us if we close it down and move everyone to a federal pen in the USA?I'm sure John Hickenlooper would welcome them with open arms in Colorado.

it was a dumb campaign promise that should be forgotten.that's what happens when you make promises without knowing enough about your situation.

 

WSS

[VaporTrail]

Lesser of the two evils.. lol that's good. I'm going to save us both a lot of time and not get into this one with ya

 

Probably a good idea, we'll agree to disagree.

[Westside Steve]

and before someone makes the required response drama yes I know other people have made similaruninformed promises...

[VaporTrail]

and does anyone believe that it's a serious recruitment tool for AQ?

 

Well gee, that's an easy spin, I'll give it a shot.

 

These cowards who are bombing you with their robots captured many of your countrymen, most of whom were not involved with any attack, and now they are forced to live like caged dogs for the rest of their days. Oh, the Americans captured your cousin ten years ago and you haven't seen him since? Your neighbor? Your father? Where is the justice for them?

 

You really think they'll have a hard time recruiting when that's their pitch? How many people joined up after 9/11 when all we talked about was how the cowards rammed planes into the towers of civilians?

[Westside Steve]

they are going to say that even if we house them at Club Med. Geez come on.

 

and we aren't talking about giving them 10 bucks and a suit of clothes and setting them free, were talking about sending them to a worse prison here in the hated United States.

WSS

[VaporTrail]

they are going to say that even if we house them at Club Med. Geez come on.

 

and we aren't talking about giving them 10 bucks and a suit of clothes and setting them free, were talking about sending them to a worse prison here in the hated United States.

WSS

 

American prison conditions are irrelevant to al Qaeda's recruiting. As for which one's worse, you probably don't have to worry about getting shanked by a Nazi in Gitmo, but you are subject to torture!

[Westside Steve]

 

American prison conditions are irrelevant to al Qaeda's recruiting. As for which one's worse, you probably don't have to worry about getting shanked by a Nazi in Gitmo, but you are subject to torture!

American prisons are most certainly relevant, because that's where we'd send these people. Also are you saying that we are torturing prisoners at Guantanamo Bay?

 

and whether they are or not what do you suppose the recruiters tell them?

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Steve, you crack me up. You enter just about every thread about anything upset that someone is bringing up a subject, and then you accuse them of "crying" or "bitching" or "moaning", and then you type a couple lines about how you don't care.

 

No one can raise a subject without you imagining them all weepy on the other end of the line.

 

I don't think anyone's weepy, bud. Some people might have thought it was a bad idea in the first place. And come on, think about it: if from day one these suspects were brought to a military or Supermax facility in the lower 48, do you imagine anyone would have cared?

 

Of course not.

 

The prison is not worth the trouble it causes. It's not worth the expense. And it's time to start dismantling the (understandable) post 9/11 overreaction to terrorism.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Vapor, I don't think those detainees are subject to torture techniques any more. They're also been there so long they're probably long past the point where they could provide useful information anyway, so there'd likely be no point in torturing them even if the White House wanted them to be tortured. And the White House doesn't want them to be tortured.

[heckofajobbrownie]

And the PR benefit to closing the prison probably isn't much in terms of Al Qaeda types. It's not going to change anyone's mind there. But it would be a small benefit in dealings with our allies.

 

But that's not really one of the main reasons to close the prison anyway. It's not about them. More about us.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Seriously, who cares?

 

I haven't checked the exact numbers but I'd say that your drone strikes kill a lot more women and babies than gitmo.

 

But they probably deserved it too...

 

WSS

 

Yikes.

 

Can you move that GIF down here, too, Vape?

[heckofajobbrownie]

And it's amazing how silly your Obama hatred makes you.

Yes, one of his stances when running for president was closing Gitmo.

Once elected, that remained his stance. He issued an executive order instructing the CIA to begin the process of closing the prison, and that it should be closed in a year, and ordered the government to begin the legal process that would determine what to do with the remaining prisoners - to try, transfer, release, whatever.

Congress then voted to not approve the funds for Gitmo to be closed and for the prisoners to be transferred.

...And this is Obama's fault why?

 

Eh, nevermind. I've got work to do.

[Westside Steve]

no heck its not really his fault at all. Maybe only a little tiny bit, but a lot of people thought that would be a splendid idea.when reality set in it just turned out to be a hill too high to climb. It would have been the same for a president McCain.

 

you don't have to freak out every time in defense of the guy.

 

but seriously if it means a lot to you, again, en pick up the banner.

 

WSS

 

WSS [/b]

[heckofajobbrownie]

Yes, God forbid a politician tell the public which policies he would try to implement if elected, and then get in office and try to implement those policies.

 

What an asshole!

 

And no freaking out. Just making sure we're on planet earth here.

[Westside Steve]

haha. You act like I slapped your wife. Hey let's say Newt Gingrich got elected, okay? You suppose you'd take this same course when somebody pointed out that gasoline was a lot more than 250 a gallon?

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

...That gasoline was a lot more than 250 a gallon? Wha? I suspect I know what point you're trying to make (acolyte, blah, blah - we've been over this, to no avail) even though I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

But brother, retreating from your dumb partisan whiff after being corrected on reality is a funny time to accuse me of partisanship. Especially when you've realized that my point is valid and yours isn't. If pointing out reality is partisan, and being annoyed by your reflexive anti-Obama stupidity is too much, then hey, guess you got me. Should probably tell you something that this is your fall back position after losing on points. "Hey, man. Quit defending your boy!"

 

Eesh.

 

Also, I didn't blame Bush for gas prices during the Bush years. Nor do I credit Obama when they dip. Because they have almost nothing to do with the President. If someone wanted to praise Obama for gas prices now, I'd be happy to tell them its unwarranted.

 

As you know, I want gas prices to go up.

[Westside Steve]

I suspect you're pretending to be dim to make a point but never mind that. Think really hard... Remember that Newt Gingrich said he had a plan to bring gasoline down to 250 a gallon! So let's say he won the election okay? Do you think it would be valid or not valid to bring up the fact that that was probably a bullshit promise? I'm not even saying Obama's promise was that much bullshit because, as we've discussed, a lot of those on the left were up in arms about it. I just said it was made in ignorance. And it was whether or not you think it should have been done then or should have been done yesterday.

 

that's all there is to it.

WSS