Legacy Fan Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 "Keep in mind as the gun control debate shifts ( yet again) from "assault weapons" to "conceal carry" in the wake of the Zimmerman verdict." Kindly fuck off, Washington. http://gunssavelives.net/blog/gun-deaths-among-young-people-at-30-year-low/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yes, many times of crime are declining for lots of different reasons, even things like lead abatement. But is this not different from saying we have too much gun crime? It may be declining. It's still way, way higher in America than most other industrialized countries. I don't think it's proof that we no longer need to look at ways to reduce gun crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Heck sissy backtrack translation: "son of a...... I hate this crap that makes my previous statements on gun crime look like they were made by an Obamaobot..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Cal, are you a grown man? I'm pretty sure you aren't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yes, many times of crime are declining for lots of different reasons, even things like lead abatement. But is this not different from saying we have too much gun crime? It may be declining. It's still way, way higher in America than most other industrialized countries. I don't think it's proof that we no longer need to look at ways to reduce gun crime. And if you opened up the USA Today, link you would have read the homice rate as... 28.8 per 100,000 for black youths; 7.9 per 100,000 for Hispanic youths; and 2.1 per 100,000 for white youths. Yeah, gun control at the expense of law abiding citizens. What we need is more thug control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 What we need is somebody intelligent to post thread content related posts for Woody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted July 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yes, many times of crime are declining for lots of different reasons, even things like lead abatement. But is this not different from saying we have too much gun crime? It may be declining. It's still way, way higher in America than most other industrialized countries. I don't think it's proof that we no longer need to look at ways to reduce gun crime. That's not entirely true. I posted a chart a week or so ago that goes into more detail.Found it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list#data Edit: open the link on a flash-enabled device. Lets you sort the columns. Basically what it boils down to is that the US owns 35-50% of the world's civilian guns. If guns are the problem, the US should own 35-50% of gun homicides too. But we don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I don't think that stat comparison would be the bases for whether or not any gun reform should happen. We aren't trying to compare ourselves to El Salvador or Columbia. I'd have to take a better look at the numbers but I'm guessing "We're less than 1/3 of the total gun homicides in the world" could be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted July 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I don't think that stat comparison would be the bases for whether or not any gun reform should happen. We aren't trying to compare ourselves to El Salvador or Columbia. I'd have to take a better look at the numbers but I'm guessing "We're less than 1/3 of the total gun homicides in the world" could be better.I'm not trying to be a shit, I promise, but you've kind of missed the point. It's not about saying we're better than country a or country b. it's a numbers game - which is why the table has a column that normalizes the data (per 100k). With our population, and the number of LEGAL guns (88 per 100 ppl I think) we should be at the top of the heap with regards to gun homicides. But like I said earlier, that's not the case. So you look at what the data shows. And that is, quite simply, that the quantity of guns is not the problem. And this is why gun control legislation (in its current form) is about as useful as a tit on a bull - it seeks to reduce the # of guns. However it targets LAW ABIDING citizens (99% of the time) rather than address the actual problems. Which are found in *ahem* pockets (read: inner cities) throughout the country. You (or maybe Vapor) and I went on about this e a while back with regards to abortions, crime, and the inner city. And then Cysco more recently posted some more data demonstrating more of the same (except he focused on a single race of people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 If the legislation focuses on keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them and lowers the "firepower" of what is available I see nothing wrong with it. Law abusing citizens may have to wait longer to get a gun, but that's a small price to pay to attempt to keep the gun out of the hands of someone who shouldn't have it. No, I'm not saying that will solve EVERYTHING. But its ridiculous to think laws can only be enacted if they solve 100% of the problem. Reducing gun violence by 10% would be worth it. I still believe your conclusion off of the data is bad. Just because we own 33% of the guns in the world doesn't mean we should be happy with 33% of gun homicides. I would also think you'd need to remove 3rd worked, war torn countries and the like. Compare us to our peers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I'm with Woody here. I don't get the "third of all guns = third of all homicides." No one is suggesting that kind of relationship. Nor are we necessarily talking about reducing the total number of guns, or even guns at all, when when we're talking about reducing the amount of gun crime. We're usually talking about limiting access for specific categories of people. Or you're talking about mental health issues. Or you're talking about domestic abuse. Or you're talking about sentencing. Summer jobs programs. Or lead abatement. A whole number of things. Or let's try this, Leg: how would you try to reduce the incidence of gun crime in America? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 While gun death rates have been dropping(I think since the early 90's) per population we are still one of the highest in the world, the ones with a higher portion are Latin American countries - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Or let's try this, Leg: how would you try to reduce the incidence of gun crime in America? Heckbunker ****************************************************** For the umpteenth time, let me interject a viable solution: Make a national db of all those who are NOT allowed to own weapons. Then run a background check against that db for anyone trying to buy a gun, and presto ! Problem solved. Of course, that won't lead the way to confiscation via court order, or taxing them out of existence ..because you won't know where they are....but it would solve the problem you gun control people keep harping about. "if it would stop "some" crime...." I challenge any gun control advocate anywhere, to tell me why that db wouldn't do what they ...allegedly ... want it to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted July 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Or let's try this, Leg: how would you try to reduce the incidence of gun crime in America? Cal actually has a pretty good idea other than it might be challenging in determining who "can't" own a gun other than the usual suspects (felons, etc.). I've stated before I don't have a problem with background checks, wait limits etc. I'd be interested in a metric that emphasized how much gun violence those things prevented, because I doubt it's much. But I still don't mind them - I pass those tests no sweat. We've already done the "assault weapons" thing and shown how foolish that was. And regarding the data. Nobody is suggesting that #guns = #gun homicides is acceptable. I'm just reminding those of us who keep insisting that "we have a gun problem" that umm no we're actually doing ok, relatively speaking. Sure we can strive for better. We can always hope for less violence, less pollution, less poverty etc. I just think our legislators are tackling this issue under a horrible delusion of what our problem is and what the solution for that problem should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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