sleepygtr Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Here is the deal - quick as I can explain it - Yesterday told us so much... Observation 1: Weeden will NEVER be more than a below average NFL qb - the answer is simple - after one full year as an NFL starter he still has ZERO pocket presence - same guy as last year, no growth. Yes the dolphins had an effective pass rush, but so did the Browns. Who responded better? well that was obvious. There are 2 ways a qb can deal with pressure: 1) Anticipate its source and check down/audible to attack the seams (Brady.Manning, Rodgers) 2) Sense where it is coming from and avoid it, then create (Wilson, Roethlesberger) Our boy Weeden can do neither and has proven that over and over - the only rush he can avoid is the one that comes right at him that he can see and run from and then when flushed he has ZERO creativity on the run. 4 of his sacks/pressures yesterday could have been avoided if he just merely stepped up in the pocket but he never felt the outside and behind pressure - good qb's do this and do it early in their careers. The tease is that he is decent in the pocket when well protected and has an NFL arm - but now that teams know about his pocket presence they will continue to send the house on him from his blind spots. Observation 2: Anyone notice that the pass rush yesterday was as good or better than it has EVER been since the Browns returned from Cleveland? Without Mingo? Sure could have used Milliner yesterday on Hartline as this average receiver torched Skrine while Wallace was silence by Hayden Observation 3: From 1999 to today - 1 ROAD opener? that 14 years of home openers and a 1-13 record!! I see a trend! Please open on the road next week so we can enjoy 1 extra week of false hope without having to watch the train-wreck live! We all know its because they can count on the saps showing up for 2 games - the opener and the Steeler game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrankryan Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 It's not a train wreck. We are looking for a QB. Maybe next season. Give Norv a shot with the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Here is the deal - quick as I can explain it - Yesterday told us so much... Observation 1: Weeden will NEVER be more than a below average NFL qb - the answer is simple - after one full year as an NFL starter he still has ZERO pocket presence - same guy as last year, no growth. Yes the dolphins had an effective pass rush, but so did the Browns. Who responded better? well that was obvious. There are 2 ways a qb can deal with pressure: 1) Anticipate its source and check down/audible to attack the seams (Brady.Manning, Rodgers) 2) Sense where it is coming from and avoid it, then create (Wilson, Roethlesberger) Our boy Weeden can do neither and has proven that over and over - the only rush he can avoid is the one that comes right at him that he can see and run from and then when flushed he has ZERO creativity on the run. 4 of his sacks/pressures yesterday could have been avoided if he just merely stepped up in the pocket but he never felt the outside and behind pressure - good qb's do this and do it early in their careers. The tease is that he is decent in the pocket when well protected and has an NFL arm - but now that teams know about his pocket presence they will continue to send the house on him from his blind spots. Observation 2: Anyone notice that the pass rush yesterday was as good or better than it has EVER been since the Browns returned from Cleveland? Without Mingo? Sure could have used Milliner yesterday on Hartline as this average receiver torched Skrine while Wallace was silence by Hayden Observation 3: From 1999 to today - 1 ROAD opener? that 14 years of home openers and a 1-13 record!! I see a trend! Please open on the road next week so we can enjoy 1 extra week of false hope without having to watch the train-wreck live! We all know its because they can count on the saps showing up for 2 games - the opener and the Steeler game.... The pass rush was good in the first half, non existent in the second half. Maybe because they were tuckered out. Our secondary didn't impress me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 The pass rush was good in the first half, non existent in the second half. Maybe because they were tuckered out. Our secondary didn't impress me either. They sure looked tired in the second half. But the offense didn't help at all. Were they 1-14 on 3rd down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 The pass rush was good in the first half, non existent in the second half. Maybe because they were tuckered out. Our secondary didn't impress me either. There's no way I'm buying the defense being tired excuse. I looked at the time of possession early in the 4th quarter and it was damn near even.....the Browns were about 1 minute less in TOP to the point prior to the defense being assraped for a 85 yard TD drive in a 3 point game that essentially ended the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepygtr Posted September 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 It's not a train wreck. We are looking for a QB. Maybe next season. Give Norv a shot with the kid. Its not Norv and he is not a kid (hes 29) - Problem is no one can teach pocket presence really and if you dont have it you cant be a solid NFL starter. period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepygtr Posted September 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 There's no way I'm buying the defense being tired excuse. I looked at the time of possession early in the 4th quarter and it was damn near even.....the Browns were about 1 minute less in TOP to the point prior to the defense being assraped for a 85 yard TD drive in a 3 point game that essentially ended the game. They were not tired - they were out-adjusted - how many quick outs did Tannehil complete under pressure? Its called recognition and Weeden simply has no recognition where that is concerned - it also builds a qb's confidence as game continues knowing you have the sure-handed Hartline having his way with the worst starting corner in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Really good post. Wanted to say that first. I think our pass rush would've been Dolphin-esque with Mingo. Corners schmorners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7moses7 Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 how many of Tannehill's passes should have been intercepted if it were not for the stone handed defenders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Weeden isn't Marino but he isn't the reason we lost. Still our receivers are average at best, even with Gordon. Our O-Line looked completely out matched and let's be honest the Browns aren't very talented at the speed positions. Haden played well but I want to see him against Smith this weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Weeden isn't Marino but he isn't the reason we lost. Still our receivers are average at best, even with Gordon. Our O-Line looked completely out matched and let's be honest the Browns aren't very talented at the speed positions. Haden played well but I want to see him against Smith this weekend i agree with your statement but it should have been reworded such as "weeden wasn't the only reason we lost".he was a huge factor, along with shurmur-like play calling our right side of the Oline AGAIN being shown as one of our major weaknesses along with our other being the defensive backfield.everyone bitches about taking a CB or S too high in the draft. well i made the same argument with RBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 i agree with your statement but it should have been reworded such as "weeden wasn't the only reason we lost". he was a huge factor, along with shurmur-like play calling our right side of the Oline AGAIN being shown as one of our major weaknesses along with our other being the defensive backfield. everyone bitches about taking a CB or S too high in the draft. well i made the same argument with RBs. I was probably the only one here who didn't want Shurmur fired but it will occur to most real soon that the offense lacks depth and talent and no matter who the coach is they'll probably play well enough to win 7 times this year and 3 of those games the defense won't show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hish747 Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Weeden isn't Marino but he isn't the reason we lost. Still our receivers are average at best, even with Gordon. Our O-Line looked completely out matched and let's be honest the Browns aren't very talented at the speed positions. Haden played well but I want to see him against Smith this weekend What you say is true about the receivers and the O-line. But that doesn't excuse his poor play. He is as large a part of the reason we lost as anything else. He doesn't seem to be able to adjust at all. One of the things I saw that was really troubling was one of the passes that he had batted down. The defender had his hand raised and waiting and Weeden threw the ball right into his hand. It wasn't as if the defender put his hand up just as Weeden was completing the windup, his hand was already up and waiting and then Weeden wound up and threw right into it. That was scary bad. I actually defended Weeden after the Philly game last season and found this one harder to excuse in some ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackbrownie2 Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 What you say is true about the receivers and the O-line. But that doesn't excuse his poor play. He is as large a part of the reason we lost as anything else. He doesn't seem to be able to adjust at all. One of the things I saw that was really troubling was one of the passes that he had batted down. The defender had his hand raised and waiting and Weeden threw the ball right into his hand. It wasn't as if the defender put his hand up just as Weeden was completing the windup, his hand was already up and waiting and then Weeden wound up and threw right into it. That was scary bad. I actually defended Weeden after the Philly game last season and found this one harder to excuse in some ways. I thought the same thing on batted ball play. It's great to be able to see downfield through the defensive line, but the defense isn't invisible! Hard to believe he threw the ball when he did.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 I was probably the only one here who didn't want Shurmur fired ... I heard there was one, but did not know who until now... It wasn't as if the defender put his hand up just as Weeden was completing the windup, his hand was already up and waiting and then Weeden wound up and threw right into it. So finally someone else sees his "windup"... pitchers have windups... QB's are not supposed to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Weeden is still raw. Our only NFL caliber reciever sunday was Bess. It amazes me that we still run Greg Littlehands out there every sunday. Hes not getting better (he's probably regressing). Our O-Line was a complete mess and even the great Tom Brady would struggle when they're collapsing the pocket up the middle and getting around the edge. You have to actually have a pocket to see what kind of presence a guy has in it. I said it last year and Ill say it again, we need a guard, in the worst way. Even if Pinkston and Luavou were out there the results wouldn't have been much better. Give Weeden time and he'll make em pay. And we have to do something to create some running lanes for Richardson. If we r not running a true blocking fullback out there you have to have guards that can pull and set the edge and none of our lumbering guards can do that effectively. I think we should expirement with Mack at RG and use Greco at center honestly. Hell we don't even have a decent blocking TE. This will be a problem all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 What you say is true about the receivers and the O-line. But that doesn't excuse his poor play. He is as large a part of the reason we lost as anything else. He doesn't seem to be able to adjust at all. One of the things I saw that was really troubling was one of the passes that he had batted down. The defender had his hand raised and waiting and Weeden threw the ball right into his hand. It wasn't as if the defender put his hand up just as Weeden was completing the windup, his hand was already up and waiting and then Weeden wound up and threw right into it. That was scary bad. I actually defended Weeden after the Philly game last season and found this one harder to excuse in some ways. Don't get me wrong, Weeden isn't the answer but we aren't a QB away from the promise land either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 what i saw of the game when the browns played good little was making catches. weeden has a great arm but his accuracy sucks. sure if little had the size of andre johnson or a megatron i would expect him to make those 3 feet over his head catches too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdawg2010 Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 what i saw of the game when the browns played good little was making catches. weeden has a great arm but his accuracy sucks. sure if little had the size of andre johnson or a megatron i would expect him to make those 3 feet over his head catches too. Indeed. And Weeden is going to get our WRs killed if he continues to put those balls 3 feet over their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hish747 Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 what i saw of the game when the browns played good little was making catches. weeden has a great arm but his accuracy sucks. sure if little had the size of andre johnson or a megatron i would expect him to make those 3 feet over his head catches too. You know, I don't really think it's his accuracy per se. I think it's his poise and decision-making. Give him enough time and no pressure and I believe Weeden can thread a needle. I think that's what we saw on the sports science show. But, once he's pressured or in a situation where he needs to make a quick decision, he panics and very bad things happen. That and man does he ever need to pick up the pace! Just sayin, down by 2 scores and you're lolly-gagging back to the line as if you're trying to find your parked car is no way for an NFL QB to manage the end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 I still dont understand how a guy like (Weeden) that hits small clay pidgeons in mid air...,then misses big targets like little and Gordon..LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 That and man does he ever need to pick up the pace! Just sayin, down by 2 scores and you're lolly-gagging back to the line as if you're trying to find your parked car is no way for an NFL QB to manage the end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 I still dont understand how a guy like (Weeden) that hits small clay pidgeons in mid air...,then misses big targets like little and Gordon..LOL He isn't getting bum rushed by huge guys out for blood when he's throwing at clay pigeons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 He isn't getting bum rushed by huge guys out for blood when he's throwing at clay pigeons I know that but still..His biggest problem is he has no clue how to read NFL defenses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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