The Gipper Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 If you put 2-3 players you draft on the PS, they can be signed to other teams without compensation... thus wasted draft picks if they're any good Also, if you get 4-5 starters from the same draft, then you're starting 4-5 rookies which means "waiting until next year" while these guys develop and get beat... especially late in the year when they hit the inevitable "rookie wall" If we have 7 holes to fill in the starting lineup, which I don't think we do, we need to utilize the players we have been developing, FA, and the draft to fill them... not just the draft... unless you want to wait another 3 years to see if those 10 guys turn out to be any good... Youth is good, but the 2nd youngest team in the NFL adding 10 rookies... just doesn't make sense... Yes, some holes would/should/could be fill with veterans via FA.....But I mean WTF.....if this team is going to be relying on a rookie starting QB next year....then hell yes, we again will all be waiting till the following year. That is what the QB fuckups do to this team. Couch/Quinn/Frye/McCoy/Weeden....yea, it takes two years to figure out if these guys will be any good......and none of them were and this team has suffered setbacks of two years each time. Where the hell do you think we will be if we go down the rookie road again? Unless Hoyer becomes the real deal, that is where we are headed....again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 1st round this year 1st round next year, I think the FO puts a lot of value in to the depth of this class and would be shocked to see them trade out of a whole lot this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 LOL if we give both firsts or even a 1st and 2nd to St Louis to move up I might just become a Rams fan too. At least they know how to fuck teams in the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yes, some holes would/should/could be fill with veterans via FA.....But I mean WTF.....if this team is going to be relying on a rookie starting QB next year....then hell yes, we again will all be waiting till the following year. That is what the QB fuckups do to this team. Couch/Quinn/Frye/McCoy/Weeden....yea, it takes two years to figure out if these guys will be any good......and none of them were and this team has suffered setbacks of two years each time. Where the hell do you think we will be if we go down the rookie road again? Unless Hoyer becomes the real deal, that is where we are headed....again. Or we go where 3 rookie QBs took their teams last year... the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns616 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don't believe we need to move up, but if a QB needy team like Minnesota moves up/threatens to move up to #2 then we might need to consider a trade if we want one of the 3 "bluechip" qb's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don't believe we need to move up, but if a QB needy team like Minnesota moves up/threatens to move up to #2 then we might need to consider a trade if we want one of the 3 "bluechip" qb's Yeah- just like we got suckered that someone might jump ahead of us to take Richardson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 We have 10 picks and can't possibly use all of them, as that would be the biggest waste imaginable. We have to make a trade somewhere, so here's what I have in mind... 1) IF the Texans don't take Bridgewater - trade our extra 3rd & 4th to swap with the Rams - Draft Bridgewater 2) Draft Watkins/Clowney/Bridgewater/Bortles with #1a. Trade our #2 and/or an extra 3 or 4 - to move up our 1b to find a compliment (Ie, 1a)Watkins 1b) Carr, or 1a)Bortles 1b) Lee/Evans) 3) Draft 1a & 1b as they stand, and attempt to get rid of some picks for better picks next year (just like we did last year) 4) Trade later round picks to get more 2nd-3rd round talent illogical. we can and should use every pick we have unless we get an offer to trade downs and garner more picks. we could easily replace 10 players on our roster with upgrades from the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 illogical. we can and should use every pick we have unless we get an offer to trade downs and garner more picks. we could easily replace 10 players on our roster with upgrades from the draft. no. No way. We wouldnt be able to keep em all and would end up cutting 3 or 4 once training camp rolls around. Dont forget we will add a few free agents as well. I'd say no more than 7 rookies are on the final roster after cuts....and that'll be an NFL high. I'd like to see them package some picks for some proven talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Or we go where 3 rookie QBs took their teams last year... the playoffs Yea....in today's NFL I don't see why that is impossible. Here is a question: When has a team with a first year coach and a rookie QB ever made the playoffs? I don't know the answer...I would have to think on it or research it. Curious though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 You guys, man.... how many times has any team drafted solely for need and then inserted all of their rookies into their starting lineups the following season? It doesn't happen. 10 picks is a luxury--and those picks were compiled for a reason: to get the Browns' franchise QB. Whether or not that requires a trade up from the No. 4 pick, or another pick to a higher selection, the probability of some type of trade on draft day is huge. OK....but that would be great IF there were a QB rated like Luck or RGIII there to trade up to get. In this draft, there ain't. Bridgewater seems the best rated....but he is by no means the consensus best QB out there. Bortles/Manziel/Carr all get their run as well. Getting the guy considered the best in this draft is no sure thing that he will be better than the guy taken #100, . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 OK....but that would be great IF there were a QB rated like Luck or RGIII there to trade up to get. In this draft, there ain't. Bridgewater seems the best rated....but he is by no means the consensus best QB out there. Bortles/Manziel/Carr all get their run as well. Getting the guy considered the best in this draft is no sure thing that he will be better than the guy taken #100, . I'm not an "expert" by any means, but I tend to disagree with the argument that there is no "surefire franchise QB" in this draft. Usually, scouts can decide the top player at a given position based on "comparing" them to others at the same spot. This year, I think all 4 QBs (Bridgewater/Manziel/Carr/Bortles) are so different in their style-of-play that it is hard to make a comparitive argument for who is the best. If any of these guys were in the draft last year vs. Smith/Manuel, all 4 would be compared favorably over either of those guys. In my opinion, these guys are all good enough to be drafted 1-4 and just like every draft in history 2 out of those 4 are going to lead their teams to success... To achieve that success, your FO has one of two options - 1) draft the guy that best fits what you are trying to do on offense, or 2) draft the most talented guy and fit your offense to them... Look at the NFC - 3 of the final 4 teams took option #2 (of course those teams have pretty solid coaching staffs - but that is for another argument)... It's hard to predict success, but it's worth it to gamble on that QB b/c I'd hate to go into another season and know by week 4 that there is no hope b/c "we don't have a quarterback"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yea....in today's NFL I don't see why that is impossible. Here is a question: When has a team with a first year coach and a rookie QB ever made the playoffs? I don't know the answer...I would have to think on it or research it. Curious though. There's a few examples off the top of my head: 2012 - Colts (Pagano/Arians and Luck) 2008 - Falcons (Mike Smith and Matt Ryan) 2008 - Ravens (John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 illogical. we can and should use every pick we have unless we get an offer to trade downs and garner more picks. we could easily replace 10 players on our roster with upgrades from the draft. They don't have to be starters- just add quality depth. And we can do what we did last year trade some of those lower picks for higher picks in 2015. You guys, man.... how many times has any team drafted solely for need and then inserted all of their rookies into their starting lineups the following season? It doesn't happen. 10 picks is a luxury--and those picks were compiled for a reason: to get the Browns' franchise QB. Whether or not that requires a trade up from the No. 4 pick, or another pick to a higher selection, the probability of some type of trade on draft day is huge. Question is- is there a true franchise sure-fire guy in this draft? There's no Andrew Luck. Trade the 2nd first for someone's first AND second in 2015 when we have a shot at Mariotta. I doubt Haslam's going to have the patience though- he's in a "win now" mode. Well you can't win with inferior talent. I thought you were in it for sustainable success Jimmy, or did I hear you wrong? I'm not an "expert" by any means, but I tend to disagree with the argument that there is no "surefire franchise QB" in this draft. Usually, scouts can decide the top player at a given position based on "comparing" them to others at the same spot. This year, I think all 4 QBs (Bridgewater/Manziel/Carr/Bortles) are so different in their style-of-play that it is hard to make a comparitive argument for who is the best. If any of these guys were in the draft last year vs. Smith/Manuel, all 4 would be compared favorably over either of those guys. In my opinion, these guys are all good enough to be drafted 1-4 and just like every draft in history 2 out of those 4 are going to lead their teams to success... To achieve that success, your FO has one of two options - 1) draft the guy that best fits what you are trying to do on offense, or 2) draft the most talented guy and fit your offense to them... Look at the NFC - 3 of the final 4 teams took option #2 (of course those teams have pretty solid coaching staffs - but that is for another argument)... It's hard to predict success, but it's worth it to gamble on that QB b/c I'd hate to go into another season and know by week 4 that there is no hope b/c "we don't have a quarterback"... History says one of the 4 will be great, one will be average, one below average, and one a total bust. Step right up any play draft day roulette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 They don't have to be starters- just add quality depth. And we can do what we did last year trade some of those lower picks for higher picks in 2015. Question is- is there a true franchise sure-fire guy in this draft? There's no Andrew Luck. Trade the 2nd first for someone's first AND second in 2015 when we have a shot at Mariotta. I doubt Haslam's going to have the patience though- he's in a "win now" mode. Well you can't win with inferior talent. I thought you were in it for sustainable success Jimmy, or did I hear you wrong? History says one of the 4 will be great, one will be average, one below average, and one a total bust. Step right up any play draft day roulette. Maybe this time the Browns should bet on black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hoorta + Hipper: You CAN'T say there is no franchise QB in this class. The top tier guys all have some really good attributes. As for there being no Andrew Luck in this class....Not every franchise QB was a no-brainer No. 1 overall pick. The team will be put in a tough position if it can't find it's top rated QB and then put a value on him. If they rate Bortles, Teddy or Johnny Football as that No. 1, how can they NOT trade up to get their top guy? The risk of missing the guy they handpicked for another gamble of a draft pick is not good reasoning. I don't know yet whether I would do that because I haven't seen enough Bortles or JFF, but Bridgewater looks really appealing. If the other two are close, or better, I think I would stay put at 4, but in not so sure that's the case, yet. If they surrender a pick to move up, they have plenty of ammo to move up again throughout the draft. That's my only real point here. 10 draft picks are for positioning. Any takers for a bet that Lombardi doesn't draft 10 players in May? My perception though is that the guys that are available in this draft seem to be so evenly matched....even though they may have different styles that it is not prudent to sell the farm to move up to get a guy that may be no better than the guy you can get staying where you are. I honestly cannot say if Bridgewater is really all that over Bortles/Manziel/Carr...or that any one of them are that much over any of the others. One or the other may turn out to be much better than the others.....but right not that seems impossible to me to gauge who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 come on man! you're supposed to be a reporter reporting things unbiased to us browns' fans. as such you can't be going around saying hop on the johnny football train or bridgewater is worth a number one pick overall. there is NO qb in this draft that is worth a consensus #1 pick. not at all. now if bridgewater was built like kaepernik i would be all about doing a redskins deal to get that guy. 2 of the top 5 QBs are shorter than webster and have a body structure like a twig. you really want to TRADE UP for a guy who when the wind blows bows and the cradle will rock? fuck that noise. get us the best D playmaker or the best O player and i ain't talking QB. the gems will be gleaming in 2015. let's se what hoyer can do with the draft picks and FA signings we get from the new jewratbastardo FO this year. if they seem competent then go balls to the wall in 2015 and pick up hundley or winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 If you read what I wrote, I'm simply looking at it from a different perspective for discussion. I think I even Saud I dont advocate or put my name on anything until I do my own work. but mike, i don't even know you (but respect you cuz you know why) anything you type on your computer nowadays or leave on the internet is 'YOUR WORK'. it's a whole new ballgame with social media nowadays. any slip up on twatter or fuckbook could send your career spiraling down the shit tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I assume Lombardi and Banner will not see them as interchangeable as your view. It will come down to their evals. The next and more important question, is do we trust those personnel decisions? No, No, and HELL NO!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hoorta + Hipper: You CAN'T say there is no franchise QB in this class. The top tier guys all have some really good attributes. As for there being no Andrew Luck in this class....Not every franchise QB was a no-brainer No. 1 overall pick. The team will be put in a tough position if it can't find it's top rated QB and then put a value on him. If they rate Bortles, Teddy or Johnny Football as that No. 1, how can they NOT trade up to get their top guy? The risk of missing the guy they handpicked for another gamble of a draft pick is not good reasoning. I don't know yet whether I would do that because I haven't seen enough Bortles or JFF, but Bridgewater looks really appealing. If the other two are close, or better, I think I would stay put at 4, but in not so sure that's the case, yet. If they surrender a pick to move up, they have plenty of ammo to move up again throughout the draft. That's my only real point here. 10 draft picks are for positioning. Any takers for a bet that Lombardi doesn't draft 10 players in May? So you're telling me there ARE sure fire franchise qbs in this draft? Really? Go prove it. Or would you like me to give you a list of the "sure fire franchise qbs" that busted big time since the Browns return? I can start with Akillii Smith, Joey Harrington,Mat Leinart (man Shep was all over his schlong) and keep on going if you like. Oh, I will- I forgot about #1 overall, Jafatass Russell. Now if you want to try and make a feeble point that anyone in this current crop of qbs has superiority over any of those in some measurables- go ahead, and be my guest. + Har,har, har. Suppose the guy the Browns want is also the guy the Texans want and they tell the Browns "we aren't trading". Makes the Stooges look even Stoogier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Maybe this time the Browns should bet on black. ....are you saying draft Bridgewater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 ....are you saying draft Bridgewater? HA!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 OK....but that would be great IF there were a QB rated like Luck or RGIII there to trade up to get. In this draft, there ain't. Bridgewater seems the best rated....but he is by no means the consensus best QB out there. Bortles/Manziel/Carr all get their run as well. Getting the guy considered the best in this draft is no sure thing that he will be better than the guy taken #100, . Why would we trade up to get another RGIII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 because 1/2 of our fanbase are little cunnies who fall in love with their dream boy QB and HAVE to HAVE him. just like lombardi. it would be one of the worse moves in franchise history (see trent richardson) but don't be surprised when it happens with this front office and haslam's love for a good 'ol spoiled southern boy just like him in manziel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 When was the last time our FO drafted the big-time QB?? Hmmm... Couch? who was probably our best QB since '99... maybe that's the problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 if you think any of these guys are 'big-time' your head must have exploded in the draft class of 1983, that is if you were even born yet (not bustin balls, just don't know how old you are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I love how people are so SURE none of these guys are going to be good NFL QBs. I'm taking a break. I recommend not having such adamant opinions when youre basing your ideas off of second or third hand knowledge. i think the point that you are taking offense to is a lot of think there are going to be good QBs............ but which one? just like TR was touted as being the best RB. what happened there. the way this FO and previous ones have over-reached, made really dumb picks has a lot of us not trusting their decision making. a lot of minds and opinions will change pro and con on these guys between now and may. i don't think it's time to put all your eggs in one basket on one guy just yet. IMO if we do draft a QB i'd do it with our second pick or look for a sleeper in a later round. i'm watching russell wilson play like the best QB in the league right now, and when was he picked? i'm sure manziel would be available to us with our number 2 pick if his hype machine wasn't working overtime. he and his 'team' of PR guys have done all they can to keep his name on every sports show and website that he'll probably be the second QB picked. don't get so butt-hurt over other people's opinions. people are allowed to have different thoughts and ideas than you or i. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 if you think any of these guys are 'big-time' your head must have exploded in the draft class of 1983, that is if you were even born yet (not bustin balls, just don't know how old you are). I wasnt born yet... lol. No shame though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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