Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 That's assuming he shows up. Combine? I don't need no damn combine, I'm JOHNNY FREAKING FOOTBALL © !!!! Or you forget he blew off Manning's Camp? If you're not concerned about off-field crap he's pulled, maybe you should be. Or maybe you shouldn't be. You're putting too much stock into a 20 year old Heisman trophy winner going out and getting drunk. Guess what? Every 20 year old goes out and gets drunk. He just does it better than everyone else. You're crazy if you think he doesn't show up to the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Or maybe you shouldn't be. You're putting too much stock into a 20 year old Heisman trophy winner going out and getting drunk. Guess what? Every 20 year old goes out and gets drunk. He just does it better than everyone else. You're crazy if you think he doesn't show up to the combine. I was yanking your chain about not showing up at the combine- but not about his (bad) off-field attitude. He blew off Payton Manning, I don't care if he had a hangover or not. The copyright stuff and other incidents warn me beware of a premature Fat Head. Might just be a severe lack of maturity- or maybe not. The short list of college qb party-hearties that made it big in the NFL start and end with Dan Marino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 We're dealing with the Baltimore, Pitts and Cin folks. To win this division, we need players in the trenches that can beat the crap out of them. exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'd gamble on a twice nominated and once winning Heisman trophy quarterback over a defensive end. But that's just me. I'm putting him in with Tebow but let's be honest, college qb's can very good than eat a whole bag of dicks in the NFL. I'm not saying Manziel will necessarily suck, IF he's there at #4...ok fine. But he's not worth trading up. If he's gone before #4, fine....I would stay at 4 and take either Clowney or Watkins. Clowney is a complete player. I would still draft him and convert him to a hybrid OLB if we stayed in the 3-4.....if we move back to the 4-3 it's almost a no brainer, we have to take him if he's there. I know we have alot to fix on the offense but we're in the AFC North, we need to keep the level of defensive play where it is or if possible higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectralcow Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I started this topic (just for those who don't want to look back through the pages) and, at the time, I didn't intend it to be a debate about whether or not the Browns should take a QB in the first round or at #4 or whatever. For the record, I think the Browns definitely need to take a QB in the draft, and I wouldn't be opposed to them taking Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles (wherever they can get each respectively) in the first. I think people mistook me saying that there were teams who weren't dedicated ONLY to passing who were still having success in the NFL for me saying that the Browns should not attempt to draft a good QB if possible. Oh wait, I AM against trading up from #4, though, if it costs the Browns any other than like a zillionth round pick. That's just insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Oh wait, I AM against trading up from #4, though, if it costs the Browns any other than like a zillionth round pick. That's just insanity. No, i don't think we went off the topic with discussing the QB situation. We are talking about the position that will 'pass' the ball. We must be insane to trade up to grab Manziel…then again, it's the Browns we are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 i can't wait until the browns FO office does the unthinkable (like their plan to 'get it right' with their HC position) and does a dan snyder move to get manziel. man it's hard to ponder. if he wows us and he can stay away from injury for the first year (cuz they have to play him NOW cuz they traded four of our picks) i'll be ecstatic. BUT when the dude get's planted like a long rooted palm tree from florida and his career is over........ lord help you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 i can't wait until the browns FO office does the unthinkable (like their plan to 'get it right' with their HC position) and does a dan snyder move to get manziel. man it's hard to ponder. if he wows us and he can stay away from injury for the first year (cuz they have to play him NOW cuz they traded four of our picks) i'll be ecstatic. BUT when the dude get's planted like a long rooted palm tree from florida and his career is over........ lord help you all. You mean Lord help us all, every Browns fan on the planet. The only upside is it will get Lobotomy fired for sure. Draft Manziel and the Browns will regret it. Texas, spoiled ass rich kid, will be in an entire different world in blue collar, cold ass Cleveland. He also doesn't fit the personality of Pettine's mental toughness. Personally, I think Bortels should be the pick. He is the anti-Weeden. He constantly made throws with defenders in his face unlike Weeden, and he has leadership qualities. Watkins would be next in line. Guys who are dedicated and have maturity. When it comes to maturity Manziel has none. Let's just hope one of the stipulations Pettine had on agreeing to coach here is he has significant input in the draft. Because no way he's going to want pussy poster boy as the face of the Browns. And if Haslam drafts him anyway- to bolster ticket sales (which would be marginal at best IMHO) he should quit on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 if he's coming in as a puppet on a string just to bolster his resume, then he should make the best of it and show everybody what is happening inside and out and what control he does and doesn't have. that way when they (rat bastard banner and the big loaf lomardi) pick against his wishes and everything falls apart, he will not be penalized in his search for future employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I 'cringe' everytime these talking heads on TV have us taking Manziel at 4 or trading the barn for him to move up. The NFL is tailored to a 'passing' game. What is it with all this LOVE for Manziel? I've watched a number of highlights and majority of time, he's scrambling around and then throw one up or him taking off for a long run. This style of play has RARELY ever work on a consistent level in the NFL. The current NFL is designed for a TALL, Big-Arm QB who spent end-less hours in the film room understanding defensives. Manziel has the biggest BUST potential and ALSO the LOWEST ceiling among the QBs coming out. I'm also tired of his comparison to Russell Wilson. Why? Because Russell Wilson plays behind one of the BEST Offensive lines and running game in the league. The passing game is so much easier for him because defensive needs to worry about Marshawn Lynch on every play. Russell Wilson also plays on a team with the BEST defense in the game. His job is to AVOID mistake and take minimal RISK. Would anyone really want a QB that throw for 3,200 yards and 26 TD with 10 INT, rush for 500 yards for the season? That's 200 yards passing PER GAME. Are folks REALLY going to be happy with a QB that can put up 200 passing yards?? No! I don't want a guy that throws for 200 yards a game and takes a number of hits so he can get 20-30 yards rushing. I want a guy with the upside of 250-300 yards a game avg that gets rid of the ball quickly and accurately and avoids taking many hits or sacks. Give me a Flacco...a Big Ben... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I 'cringe' everytime these talking heads on TV have us taking Manziel at 4 or trading the barn for him to move up. The NFL is tailored to a 'passing' game. What is it with all this LOVE for Manziel? I've watched a number of highlights and majority of time, he's scrambling around and then throw one up or him taking off for a long run. This style of play has RARELY ever work on a consistent level in the NFL. The current NFL is designed for a TALL, Big-Arm QB who spent end-less hours in the film room understanding defensives. Manziel has the biggest BUST potential and ALSO the LOWEST ceiling among the QBs coming out. I'm also tired of his comparison to Russell Wilson. Why? Because Russell Wilson plays behind one of the BEST Offensive lines and running game in the league. The passing game is so much easier for him because defensive needs to worry about Marshawn Lynch on every play. Russell Wilson also plays on a team with the BEST defense in the game. His job is to AVOID mistake and take minimal RISK. Would anyone really want a QB that throw for 3,200 yards and 26 TD with 10 INT, rush for 500 yards for the season? That's 200 yards passing PER GAME. Are folks REALLY going to be happy with a QB that can put up 200 passing yards?? No! I don't want a guy that throws for 200 yards a game and takes a number of hits so he can get 20-30 yards rushing. I want a guy with the upside of 250-300 yards a game avg that gets rid of the ball quickly and accurately and avoids taking many hits or sacks. Give me a Flacco...a Big Ben... I think your way off base on Manziel. Not only is Manziel the best athlete out of all the QBs, but he may be the best thrower also. This article has the best explanation that someone posted in another thread. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum If youre going to compare him to Wilson, you have to do it from Wilson coming out of Wisconsin. Wilson was good but he was never great in college. Manziel has been spectacular in a tougher conference. Manziel is faster, quicker, as accurate, and his arm strength may be better. Coaches and players say hes a football junkie in the film room and hes very competitive. So now his only flaw is size and off field concerns. Id bet on him staying healthy enough, and keeping his nose clean before Id bet on fixing any of these other QBs flaws. I dont even want to get into the whole judging a player from highlights thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Manziel is faster, quicker, as accurate, and his arm strength may be better. Coaches and players say hes a football junkie in the film room and hes very competitive. So now his only flaw is size and off field concerns. Faster, Quicker in the QB position means nothing in the NFL. More accurate and arm strength is very debatable. College stats and performance means absolutely NOTHING in the NFL. He played behind one of the best Oline in College and also with one probably the most physical WR in college. He also plays in a spread offense that only requires him to make ONE read. There's going to be a big learning curve for this kid and i think his escape is going to be 'scrambling', taking off and running when he shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Faster, Quicker in the QB position means nothing in the NFL. More accurate and arm strength is very debatable. College stats and performance means absolutely NOTHING in the NFL. He played behind one of the best Oline in College and also with one probably the most physical WR in college. He also plays in a spread offense that only requires him to make ONE read. There's going to be a big learning curve for this kid and i think his escape is going to be 'scrambling', taking off and running when he shouldn't. I can tell youve never seen Texas A&M play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I 'cringe' everytime these talking heads on TV have us taking Manziel at 4 or trading the barn for him to move up. The NFL is tailored to a 'passing' game. What is it with all this LOVE for Manziel? I've watched a number of highlights and majority of time, he's scrambling around and then throw one up or him taking off for a long run. This style of play has RARELY ever work on a consistent level in the NFL. The current NFL is designed for a TALL, Big-Arm QB who spent end-less hours in the film room understanding defensives. Manziel has the biggest BUST potential and ALSO the LOWEST ceiling among the QBs coming out. I'm also tired of his comparison to Russell Wilson. Why? Because Russell Wilson plays behind one of the BEST Offensive lines and running game in the league. The passing game is so much easier for him because defensive needs to worry about Marshawn Lynch on every play. Russell Wilson also plays on a team with the BEST defense in the game. His job is to AVOID mistake and take minimal RISK. Would anyone really want a QB that throw for 3,200 yards and 26 TD with 10 INT, rush for 500 yards for the season? That's 200 yards passing PER GAME. Are folks REALLY going to be happy with a QB that can put up 200 passing yards?? No! I don't want a guy that throws for 200 yards a game and takes a number of hits so he can get 20-30 yards rushing. I want a guy with the upside of 250-300 yards a game avg that gets rid of the ball quickly and accurately and avoids taking many hits or sacks. Give me a Flacco...a Big Ben... Well a lot of his most impressive highlights are when he's out of the pocket. Might be what you're seeing. My personal top QBs are Bridgewater, Manziel, Carr. Not a huge Bortles fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I can tell youve never seen Texas A&M play... I've watched a number of their games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/1/9/5292616/johnny-manziel-nfl-draft?utm_source=sbnation&utm_medium=nextclicks&utm_campaign=articlebottom This article is pretty much what all the Manziel folks want to see... But it's EXACTLY what will not work in the NFL. The first GIF was a good example. There was NO ONE near him. He didn't need to dance around, in the NFL he will NOT have that much time. The 2nd Gif the writer wanted us to see. He took off but his head never looked beyond the first read. Number 38 on the defense did not attack him. I'm pretty sure he would had easily gotten caught on that run at the pro-level. Again, everything is about running around and 'improvising', you can improvise when you take snap behind one of the BEST Offensive lines in college. In the NFL you have best 3 seconds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 A lot will depend on the offensive system the Browns implement. What no one is talking about is Manziels' ability to handle losing, and cold weather. And I can't stand his "show me the money" bullshit he does. He'll bolt Cleveland after his contract is up and head for warmer, richer pastures. It's been proven that teams in the North need a power running game. These systems require strong armed quarterbacks with some mobility. While Manziels ability may fit the wind and the cold he's gonna alienate fans and players if he doesn't grow up fast. Andy Dalton would beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Johnny Manziels arm strength > Brian Hoyers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Another QB rehash thread... great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectralcow Posted January 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hahahaha, it wasn't supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I know right... popping up everywhere except the cheerleader thread... I am still a Watkins man because I do not see a QB worth the #4... that some others do is fine. But some are elevating a prospect to #4 overall based upon nothing but need.... and that is a totally irrational recipe for epic failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 Elevating schmelevating is what I say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 I still want Watkins. I'd be cool with Mettenberger/Murray in a later round to develop behind Hoyer. Only thing about Watkins is this is slated to be a deep WR draft, but I don't think anyone is on Watkins level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 Johnny Manziels arm strength > Brian Hoyers and you read that where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectralcow Posted January 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 No one doesn't support "getting a good QB". And if someone could be 100% that's what they'd get by moving up, that would be fine. Do professional scouts and management teams know better than you and I who might and might not be "a good QB"? Sure. But do they know? Nope. If they knew, there wouldn't be stories like Tim Couch and Ryan Leaf. This isn't about RG3's busted knee. This is about the fact that a high draft pick is not a guaranteed winner just because a professional scout or management team thinks that person should be picked high. And actually, that wasn't what this thread was about at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 All you assholes were sucking RG3's dick, wanting to move up to draft him. He hurt his knee and now moving up is taboo. I support getting a good QB, not being a hypocrite. No one here has the talent to say whether there's a QB "worth trading for" in this class. There is two QB needy teams ahead of the Browns. If they trade up to take the guy their professional scouts and management team decided on, you bend over and put some lipstick on. If this is going to be the narrative for the next few months, I'm done reading this shit. Thank you. You take the guy you deem to be the best. If it requires a trade up, so be it. Hopefully it doesn't. I was anti-Manziel for the longest time, but I can see the appeal and if our FO deems him to be the best QB available, then I'm okay with it. This place is becoming a fucking joke. I literally skip past everyone's replies unless they're hoorta, spectral, Mik, tour, or yours. More than half of this shit is just people screaming about stupid stuff that is, for the most part, immaterial. Oh, Manziel isn't as tall or as thick as you'd want? Oh, he's kind of a cocky dick off the field? Oh, you're worried about how he'll make the adjustment to the pro game? Guess what, if Manziel were taller, thicker and a saint off the field...he'd be the number one overall pick. Every quarterback has inherent risks, if you sit around and wait for the perfect prospect, you'll be waiting forever. You take the guy that has the most manageable flaws and the highest potential. But, more importantly, you take the guy you think is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 and you read that where Where did you read that it wasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 Where did you read that it wasn't? I didn't which is why I didn't comment either way. If someone knows it to be true or read it somewhere I would like to know. Your credentials are solid. I would acknowledge you are more plugged into the technical side of football than myself. So tell me TCPO 1) How do you compare Manziel to Hoyer 2) Do you believe Manziel is a better pick than Bortles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 All you assholes were sucking RG3's dick, wanting to move up to draft him. He hurt his knee and now moving up is taboo. I support getting a good QB, not being a hypocrite. No one here has the talent to say whether there's a QB "worth trading for" in this class. There is two QB needy teams ahead of the Browns. If they trade up to take the guy their professional scouts and management team decided on, you bend over and put some lipstick on. If this is going to be the narrative for the next few months, I'm done reading this shit. this asshole was not sucking anybody's dick. i think i was claiborne or blackmon that year. forget which one. but definitely not RG3. now they look like bafoons. so you want us to look like that? man you are close to turning into PoG with your QB man crush thing going on. hey now that we got a defensive guy as a head coach what if they take clowney if he's still there? oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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