BillsFanCNY Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 No, I'm not a Browns fan. I'm a Bills fan and obviously our franchise is, how do I put this gently, equivalent in some rather unflattering ways. In other words: you suck, we suck and anybody who thinks otherwise is a Kool-Aid guzzling homer. I like Mike Pettine and the job he did in Buffalo for ONE SEASON. No, the Bills did not have a dominant defense but there was substantial improvement in the pass rush and (as a result) creating turnovers in the secondary. That said: CLEVELAND FINISHED AHEAD OF BUFFALO IN TOTAL DEFENSE. Personally I would rather have Ray Horton than Mike Pettine. The big problem I had with Pettine's defense is that it has a severe "boom or bust" quality. Either we gave up a long TD or we sacked the QB or forced a turnover. It certainly isn't boring but we have 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman up front and stole Indy's first round pick (Jerry Hughes) from a few years ago. We have guys who can run the aggressive scheme Pettine learned from Rex Ryan. A couple of concerns I would have as a Browns fan, and I'm not so take it for what it's worth: The Bills defense gave up 20 points or more in 14 of 16 games, they dominated one game the entire season against Miami at home in December. They also beat up Geno Smith at home but still gave up 14 points. Scoring defense is a problem and the Bills were improved under Pettine but not tremendously. I think we ended up a mediocre 20th in scoring defense. Tough to win when you give up 20 points every single game. The Pettine resume is paper thin. Pettine came to Buffalo from the Jets and it was not a lateral move, it was a promotion. Being the DC in New York under Rex Ryan is like being the QB's Coach for Peyton Manning. It's a title but that's about it. I have the same criticism of our own Head Coach who was the OC under Sean Payton in New Orleans, you might hold the call sheet but you don't have much much influence over what's on it or what gets called. Pettine came to Buffalo to prove himself and he made strides in that area but at this point last year I wasn't sure if he could even handle the DC job with us. He was a bit of a question mark and while he obviously can bring the heat I hope stopping the run isn't important in your division. Buffalo could not stop the run under Pettine and made little, if any, improvement at all. In general, losing Pettine will hurt Buffalo a little but it won't help Cleveland as much as it maybe hurts Buffalo. I have no feel for what Pettine will be as a head coach since he was barely one year into his role as a defensive coordinator. I suspect he will struggle and both the Bills and Browns will be looking for a new Head Coach as early as next January. Unfortunately, leadership comes from the top and both the Bills and Browns have horrible ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectralcow Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I heard from one of my oldest friends last night. He's a Buffalo fan, a smart guy, and an avid football fan. He told me that a lot of Bills fans were upset at the idea of Pettine leaving. At present, the Browns don't have a lot of attractive choices for a HC. So, maybe Pettine doesn't have a ton of experience, or maybe we can downplay the success that he has had. Even so, I'll be more than happy to have him on-board. I think the guy shows a lot of potential that some of the Browns' other candidates do not. Will he be good? I don't know. But I do know that if the fans and the team from which he is coming are against losing him, he's coming to the Browns with a better endorsement than a lot of the candidates who were mentioned or considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neubs24 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 If you cant see the difference between Marrone and the rest of the HCs the Bills have had since Levy, youre not watching. Only way Marrone gets canned next year is a horrendous regression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanCNY Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 If you cant see the difference between Marrone and the rest of the HCs the Bills have had since Levy, youre not watching. Only way Marrone gets canned next year is a horrendous regression. Like he had in his third year at SU? Marrone has much to prove himself. Anyway, I do like Pettine but I don't see him as a head coach in the NFL right now. I'm more sold on him than Marrone but his defense did give up way too many points and it could turn out to be a blessing that he leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaidRussBrandonShill Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 If you cant see the difference between Marrone and the rest of the HCs the Bills have had since Levy, youre not watching. Only way Marrone gets canned next year is a horrendous regression. Don't listen to this fool. He works for the Buffalo Bills and is baggage handler for Jet Blue airlines that gets his rocks off banning people on their official message board that say anything negative about this joke of a football team. Doug Marrone will be exposed big time with Pettine and on the unemployment line after 2014, or when Ralph Wilson finally bites it, which ever comes first. Go back to the Bills forum and continue to praise your own crappy team with your buddy Flafitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Pro-football focus had the Bills as the 4th best Defense in the NFL, 6 players in the top 10 at position...the Bill's D "fluff" statistical troubles had more to do with a lack of production from their offense than scheme/play calling. Looking at the statistics that win/lose games 3rd down conversion allowed, turnovers created and points given up in the red zone - the Bills D went from the bottom of the NFL in 2012 and in the top 10 in each of those categories in one year under Pettine. I think this is a great pickup for the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanCNY Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Like I said, we both suck and only the Kool-Aid drinking fools think otherwise. I had pretty high hopes for Marrone personally but 6 wins is just more of the same, I do applaud the Browns for trying to bring in a new coach after Chud the dud failed miserably but you'd be better of with a Mike Shanahan type of guy. Somebody experienced. What are you going to get for a coaching staff behind Pettine? Scary thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neubs24 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Don't listen to this fool. He works for the Buffalo Bills and is baggage handler for Jet Blue airlines that gets his rocks off banning people on their official message board that say anything negative about this joke of a football team. Doug Marrone will be exposed big time with Pettine and on the unemployment line after 2014, or when Ralph Wilson finally bites it, which ever comes first. Go back to the Bills forum and continue to praise your own crappy team with your buddy Flafitz. Oh hai Bluto. Good to see you and your incorrect info around these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neubs24 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Like I said, we both suck and only the Kool-Aid drinking fools think otherwise. I had pretty high hopes for Marrone personally but 6 wins is just more of the same, I do applaud the Browns for trying to bring in a new coach after Chud the dud failed miserably but you'd be better of with a Mike Shanahan type of guy. Somebody experienced. What are you going to get for a coaching staff behind Pettine? Scary thought. Only 6 wins but they were a lot more competitive and clearly more well coached than last yr. And thats with the greenest QB depth chart in the history of ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanCNY Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Only 6 wins but they were a lot more competitive and clearly more well coached than last yr. And thats with the greenest QB depth chart in the history of ever. Same record tho, cant ignore that fact. Hopefully Pettine does good and the Bills replace him with someone better. I think there's a better chance of Buffalo finding a better DC than Pettine winning in Cleveland tho, so I'm not worried. Anything is possible I've been told. That's what I have to tell myself every September. Just like I do with the Cubbies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neubs24 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Same record tho, cant ignore that fact. Hopefully Pettine does good and the Bills replace him with someone better. I think there's a better chance of Buffalo finding a better DC than Pettine winning in Cleveland tho, so I'm not worried. Anything is possible I've been told. That's what I have to tell myself every September. Just like I do with the Cubbies. Same record but how they got there is a lot different. I agree on Pettine's replacement... while i'd like the continuity, I think Marrone is good at picking quality staff so if its not an in-house replacement, I think we'll see Wade back, this time with a headset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Pro-football focus had the Bills as the 4th best Defense in the NFL, 6 players in the top 10 at position...the Bill's D "fluff" statistical troubles had more to do with a lack of production from their offense than scheme/play calling. Looking at the statistics that win/lose games 3rd down conversion allowed, turnovers created and points given up in the red zone - the Bills D went from the bottom of the NFL in 2012 and in the top 10 in each of those categories in one year under Pettine. I think this is a great pickup for the Browns. Where they ranked in points allowed is not a fluff statistic. They were also awful against the run. In both of those categories they were bottom quarter of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Dick Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 He coached the lowly Bills.... hard to get an accurate read off the guy. If there was any bright spot from the Bills 2013 season, it was their D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Sounds like sour grapes to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrowns Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 No, I'm not a Browns fan. I'm a Bills fan and obviously our franchise is, how do I put this gently, equivalent in some rather unflattering ways. In other words: you suck, we suck and anybody who thinks otherwise is a Kool-Aid guzzling homer. I like Mike Pettine and the job he did in Buffalo for ONE SEASON. No, the Bills did not have a dominant defense but there was substantial improvement in the pass rush and (as a result) creating turnovers in the secondary. That said: CLEVELAND FINISHED AHEAD OF BUFFALO IN TOTAL DEFENSE. Personally I would rather have Ray Horton than Mike Pettine. The big problem I had with Pettine's defense is that it has a severe "boom or bust" quality. Either we gave up a long TD or we sacked the QB or forced a turnover. It certainly isn't boring but we have 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman up front and stole Indy's first round pick (Jerry Hughes) from a few years ago. We have guys who can run the aggressive scheme Pettine learned from Rex Ryan. A couple of concerns I would have as a Browns fan, and I'm not so take it for what it's worth: The Bills defense gave up 20 points or more in 14 of 16 games, they dominated one game the entire season against Miami at home in December. They also beat up Geno Smith at home but still gave up 14 points. Scoring defense is a problem and the Bills were improved under Pettine but not tremendously. I think we ended up a mediocre 20th in scoring defense. Tough to win when you give up 20 points every single game. The Pettine resume is paper thin. Pettine came to Buffalo from the Jets and it was not a lateral move, it was a promotion. Being the DC in New York under Rex Ryan is like being the QB's Coach for Peyton Manning. It's a title but that's about it. I have the same criticism of our own Head Coach who was the OC under Sean Payton in New Orleans, you might hold the call sheet but you don't have much much influence over what's on it or what gets called. Pettine came to Buffalo to prove himself and he made strides in that area but at this point last year I wasn't sure if he could even handle the DC job with us. He was a bit of a question mark and while he obviously can bring the heat I hope stopping the run isn't important in your division. Buffalo could not stop the run under Pettine and made little, if any, improvement at all. In general, losing Pettine will hurt Buffalo a little but it won't help Cleveland as much as it maybe hurts Buffalo. I have no feel for what Pettine will be as a head coach since he was barely one year into his role as a defensive coordinator. I suspect he will struggle and both the Bills and Browns will be looking for a new Head Coach as early as next January. Unfortunately, leadership comes from the top and both the Bills and Browns have horrible ownership. I think this guy is trying to convince himself more then Browns fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Where they ranked in points allowed is not a fluff statistic. They were also awful against the run. In both of those categories they were bottom quarter of the league. 20th in points allowed, not great but not a strong indicator of win/loss - 4 of the teams ranked below had a 8-8 or better record, but concede it's not fluff either, but an overvalued stat...they were awful against the run but again not a great indicator of win/loss (Arizona, Jets, Detroit and St Louis all in the top 10) either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm a Bills fan and most of us are very upset by losing Pettine. The points scored statistic ignores how many times the offense turned the ball over in the red zone (inside our own 20), and how much trouble it had sustaining drives. The inability to stop the run is legitimate, but the problem was primarily the occassional big run rather than teams marching down the field all day. I think the Browns defensive personnel will be a good fit for Pettine and I expect you'll make the playoffs in the next two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectralcow Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hey, I like whoever lives in Rob's house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 It will be interesting to see how much he likes the players here, if he does some house cleaning or not. Specifically the LB'ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Let's not forget that Pettine's Jets were also a top 10 defense every year he was there as a coach. Really my only concern now is how they will handle the offensive side of the ball and if he'll be able to get a good OC, and if that OC will be able to make the most out of our investments in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Like he had in his third year at SU? Marrone has much to prove himself. Anyway, I do like Pettine but I don't see him as a head coach in the NFL right now. I'm more sold on him than Marrone but his defense did give up way too many points and it could turn out to be a blessing that he leaves. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in Pts. Against. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in sacks. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in interceptions. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB rating. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB completion percentage. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in defensive redzone efficiency. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in tackles. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in everything...except yards per game, where they gave up a mere one more yard per game...which puts them one place behind Cleveland in total defense. Total defense is a bullshit statistic. The '"boom or bust" defense you talk about Buffalo having...it was worse in Cleveland. Cleveland was in the top ten in 3-and-out drives, and also the bottom five in drives resulting in a touchdown. We either gave up a TD or made the other team punt immediately. Pettine is, I believe, a very solid and underrated hire. How he handles the head coaching position remains to be seen, but he's surely earned a chance based on his resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectralcow Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Amen, sister! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'm a Bills fan and most of us are very upset by losing Pettine. The points scored statistic ignores how many times the offense turned the ball over in the red zone (inside our own 20), and how much trouble it had sustaining drives. The inability to stop the run is legitimate, but the problem was primarily the occassional big run rather than teams marching down the field all day. I think the Browns defensive personnel will be a good fit for Pettine and I expect you'll make the playoffs in the next two years. Playoffs?...lol...a win streak would be nice,at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in Pts. Against. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in sacks. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in interceptions. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB rating. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in opposing QB completion percentage. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in defensive redzone efficiency. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in tackles. Buffalo was ahead of Cleveland in everything...except yards per game, where they gave up a mere one more yard per game...which puts them one place behind Cleveland in total defense. Total defense is a bullshit statistic. The '"boom or bust" defense you talk about Buffalo having...it was worse in Cleveland. Cleveland was in the top ten in 3-and-out drives, and also the bottom five in drives resulting in a touchdown. We either gave up a TD or made the other team punt immediately. Pettine is, I believe, a very solid and underrated hire. How he handles the head coaching position remains to be seen, but he's surely earned a chance based on his resume. Agreed, the only defensive statistic that matters is points allowed and how it compares to points scored. I also agree that Pettine is a solid hire, and an underrated one. I think what I like the most about him is he seems like a guy who will bring some toughness to this team that it seems to lack. I wonder how he would have handled Jason Campbell's comments about the team having a hangover from the New England loss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dab7291993 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though. Secondary yes, our linebackers I'm not so sure about. The d-line played well when healthy with Taylor/Bryant/Hughes/winn/bryant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanCNY Posted January 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I guess I'm not familiar with Cleveland's defensive personnel but the Bills did have the NFL Defensive ROY, a Pro Bowl FS and 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman in 2013. Only Dareus was a first time Pro Bowler so if your personnel is better than that you guys should have at least 6 guys playing Sunday in Hawaii. Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I guess I'm not familiar with Cleveland's defensive personnel but the Bills did have the NFL Defensive ROY, a Pro Bowl FS and 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman in 2013. Only Dareus was a first time Pro Bowler so if your personnel is better than that you guys should have at least 6 guys playing Sunday in Hawaii. Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really? hey, i'm one with no disrespect towards a bill's fan. they are truly the only team that plays in NY. i loved them back in the day, i still like them a lot now. i have a neighbor who lives on the 2nd floor of my building who is a diehard bills fan who told me over a plate of mashed potatoes and gravy how he thought weeden would be great for the browns and also TR. well we all know all that turned out but i told him that i thought emmanuel would be the guy and i still think that. i loved jauron as our DC. i loved him as your HC. everybody writes him off off as a nobody. our two teams have a lot in common. blue collar fans. cold weather on the lake. if the nfl was smart they'd throw buffallo in our division afcn, and put balitwhore in the afc east. i like the buffalo way of life. reminds me of my childhood on lake erie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I feel like our defensive personnel is much better than Buffalo's, though. It is. So it's even more amazing that he outperformed us with essentially only one linebacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I guess I'm not familiar with Cleveland's defensive personnel but the Bills did have the NFL Defensive ROY, a Pro Bowl FS and 3 Pro Bowl defensive lineman in 2013. Only Dareus was a first time Pro Bowler so if your personnel is better than that you guys should have at least 6 guys playing Sunday in Hawaii. Granted the Pro Bowl voting is somewhat reputation based but Cleveland's personnel is "much better"? Really?Assuming a personnel shift to the 3-4: Mingo, Sheard and Kruger would all start at OLB for Buffalo. Rubin would be a heavy rotational player on the interior, he's best suited as a 2 gap lineman. Haden would start over any corner you have, Gilmore included. Ward would start over Jim Leonhard. Conversely: Byrd would start over Gipson. Gilmore would start over Skrine, easily. M. Williams would be a rotational OLB, as he didn't prove to transition well in 2011 in Houston before his injury. K. Williams and Dareus would be solid DE's. Kiko Alonso would start over any ILB on our roster, Jackson included. It more or less is a wash. You have great players at positions of need for us, we have great players at positions of need for you. Not to discredit the Bills defense, because they're loaded with talent...but so are we. On offense, there's no comparison. We have Gordon, Thomas, Mack and Cameron. You have literally everything else. Any one of you wideouts would start opposite Gordon. Any RB you have would start for us. Any guard you have would start for us. Your practice squad QB could start for us. I, for one, love Jeff Tuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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