Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well in that case I withdraw my job offer... I spotted Abberderis early in the OSU game and pretty much fell in love with him. Then he had a rough patch mid-season and I wondered about him, but he finished strong. I know you think it's overkill, but I keep seeing a Gordon-Watkins-Abbederis WR Corps in my mind's eye... and I like it! I really did not consider specialty positions (K, P) at all... so I guess that's a form of weighting. Good working definition and good list... To my eye Skov seems to be a step slower than Borland and is a bit lighter to boot. It will be interesting to see them both at the combine. I don't mind that reasoning. I just think that adding a handful of receivers is useless if there's no one to get them the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 now that I disagree with. If TBITCH was a #3 overall then Hyde is easily a 2nd rounder. Homer pick?? Yea probably but he is exactly what the Browns need to balance Dion Lewis. If the Browns ain't lookin at Hyde they ain't lookin for another rb. Except Trent wasn't deserving of #3. No HB is in this class. They are way less important now when most teams have a committee. Unless you can find another AP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Except Trent wasn't deserving of #3. No HB is in this class. They are way less important now when most teams have a committee. Unless you can find another AP I don't care if you can find another AP, it's still not worth it. The game has changed for the time being. No runningback is worth that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 now that I disagree with. If TBITCH was a #3 overall then Hyde is easily a 2nd rounder. Homer pick?? Yea probably but he is exactly what the Browns need to balance Dion Lewis. If the Browns ain't lookin at Hyde they ain't lookin for another rb. Sure they will. I'm as big an OSU homer as anyone, but they'd be remiss if they didn't take a long look at Tre Mason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 James White, RB, Wisconsin... Reminds me of Gio Bernard. Borland, LB, been mentioned Phillip Gaines, CB, Rice. Three we agree upon... The more I look at Gaines, the more I think he might be 2014's steal of steals... I don't mind that reasoning. I just think that adding a handful of receivers is useless if there's no one to get them the ball. I'm counting on Hoyer to do that and still looking for my mid/ late round 2014 QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Three we agree upon... The more I look at Gaines, the more I think he might be 2014's steal of steals... I'm counting on Hoyer to do that and still looking for my mid/ late round 2014 QB. so am I. Can't go on without wondering. And if a 4th overall qb is on the team there will never be a fair chance for anyone else. Of course I could always sit on the fence and wait for a winner and say I was on board with that pick all along. Kinda a sissy thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Colt McCoy, Brady Quinn, Charlie Frye, etc, etc, etc... All guys who never got fair chances in Cleveland and went on to do nothing elsewhere. Exactly. This extended time of trying to put crap in the QB spot has to end (not that Hoyer is complete crap, he's just been bounced around by other teams enough for me to have some questions). Can't we at least "try" to add a guy with 1st round talent (and don't give me the Weeden argument, he was considered a 2nd rounder at best and undraftable by some) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think it's funny no one gave Hoyer a shot last summer--some to even make the roster--when they signed him. Two DECENT starts and people are talking like hes won a super bowl. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think it's funny no one gave Hoyer a shot last summer--some to even make the roster--when they signed him. Two DECENT starts and people are talking like hes won a super bowl.have yet to read those posts. And exactly what's wrong with people admitting to being POSSIBLY wrong about him. I was wrong about him also. I certainly wanted to see more of him in2013. Now I would like to see more of him with more talent around him, a coach that likes him, and a full prrseason in 2014. Problem is if they draft a qb certain douchbags will be like oooo u wanted Hoyer not this guy. Like I've said a lot easier and pathetic to sit on the fence and wait to see who wins first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think it's funny no one gave Hoyer a shot last summer--some to even make the roster--when they signed him. Two DECENT starts and people are talking like hes won a super bowl. I think the discussion goes more like this: "should we take a flier on a QB with tons of question marks on him with the #4 pick, or should we take a bigger name talent at another position?" Some are just as skeptical of Hoyer as they are with guys like Bridgewater/Manziel/Bortles. The difference is we're not talking about using the #4 overall pick on Hoyer. Personally, I think this particular draft has some later round potential at QB. I think there could be a team or two that get a kaepernik/wilson type of guy. Of course anything could happen. Every top QB could be average at best and there could be no later round guys that pan out to be good starters. I wouldn't hate us taking a QB at 4, I'm just skeptical it'd be the best move. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Houston fleeces us for the #1 pick, we take manziel, bridgewater falls to them, bridgewater turns into a 10-time pro-bowler, manziel is out of the league in 3 years, bortles and carr make the pro-bowl multiple times, the other pick houston gets from us turns into a HOF CB, lombardi is fired in november/december 14', Farmer leaves for a GM job elsewhere after lombardi is fired and wins 3 super bowls in 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think it's funny no one gave Hoyer a shot last summer--some to even make the roster--when they signed him. Two DECENT starts and people are talking like hes won a super bowl. Obviously we have severely warped your sense of humor... I think the discussion goes more like this: "should we take a flier on a QB with tons of question marks on him with the #4 pick, or should we take a ("can't miss") talent at another position?" Everyone is (Some here are) just as skeptical of Hoyer as they are with guys like Bridgewater/Manziel/Bortles. The difference is we're not talking about using the #4 overall pick on Hoyer. Very succinct post... hope you don't mind that I tweeked it a tad. I, for one, am less skeptical of Hoyer than the Draft's "Big 4" because I have seen him at the NFL level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I take Watkins... He is "Can't miss" IMO... I do not have to prove anything about my or anyone else's view of Hoyer when he was signed. Your request is as ridiculous as me asking you to produce every post saying Hoyer was a waste of a roster spot to support your "no one" hyperbole. I had no opinion of Hoyer when Lombardi signed him. But by the time Wheezy first went down and it was time for a backup to step in, I was all for Hoyer being the one vs. Campbell... based upon what I had seen of Hoyer in pre-season vs. what I knew of Campbell's past performance at Oakland and Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I take Watkins... He is "Can't miss" IMO... I do not have to prove anything about my or anyone else's view of Hoyer when he was signed. Your request is as ridiculous as me asking you to produce every post saying Hoyer was a waste of a roster spot to support your "no one" hyperbole. I had no opinion of Hoyer when Lombardi signed him. But by the time Wheezy first went down and it was time for a backup to step in, I was all for Hoyer being the one vs. Campbell... based upon what I had seen of Hoyer in pre-season vs. what I knew of Campbell's past performance at Oakland and Washington. here here. Watkins is a slam dunk. Get the qb later. Chances are wed end up with the 2nd or 3rd qb off the board. Get Watkins ur gettin the best at his position maybe the whole draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I take Watkins... He is "Can't miss" IMO... I do not have to prove anything about my or anyone else's view of Hoyer when he was signed. Your request is as ridiculous as me asking you to produce every post saying Hoyer was a waste of a roster spot to support your "no one" hyperbole. I had no opinion of Hoyer when Lombardi signed him. But by the time Wheezy first went down and it was time for a backup to step in, I was all for Hoyer being the one vs. Campbell... based upon what I had seen of Hoyer in pre-season vs. what I knew of Campbell's past performance at Oakland and Washington. I don't feel it's hyperbole. I've been combing the forum for posts dated before the season and haven't found a single one that claims Hoyer has the potential to be a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I don't feel it's hyperbole. I've been combing the forum for posts dated before the season and haven't found a single one that claims Hoyer has the potential to be a starter. So...doubt Ull ever find one of DA before 07 and he was a probowler that year. Great analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 How many teams have two No. 1 WRs? Then, tell me where those teams finished this season. How 'bout the 2007 Pats with Moss and Welker... As I recall they went 16-0... Can't wait for your to tell me Welker was not a #1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 My whole point about what I wrote, is that no one valued Hoyer, at all, prove me wrong. He was "Lombardis boy" and on the outside looking in on the QB job from day 1. I don't feel it's hyperbole. I've been combing the forum for posts dated before the season and haven't found a single one that claims Hoyer has the potential to be a starter. TC, his use of "no one" is the very defintion of hyperbole... hy·per·bo·le (hī-pûr′bə-lē) n.A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I like him, like his story, but I want a super bowl and I'm not sure he's good enough for the job. You don't know if Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles are yet. You use that No. 1 pick on a QB when ypu have "We will have a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL QB" written on your draft office wall. Yes, you do... IF you believe that one of those three QBs (or Carr or a true darkhorse) in the draft is a Championship level QB. It seems you do.. I do not... So rather than ridicule my choice of Watkins over your annointed trinity (which will only serve to piss me off) why not spend your time trying to convince me that one (or more) of those QBs is the guy... ... and in return I will try to convince you he is/ they are not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 So...doubt Ull ever find one of DA before 07 and he was a probowler that year. Great analysis. And what's he done since? That's a perfect comparison, thank you. God damn, it would be sad if it wasn't so funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 TC, his use of "no one" is the very defintion of hyperbole... hy·per·bo·le (hī-pûr′bə-lē) n. A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton. I know the definition of hyperbole. That's why I said I don't think it is. I literally can't find a single example of someone claiming him to be a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Moss and Welker... After a ittle more thought... Perhaps a different Moss pairing... with Chris Carter? ... maybe Stallworth and Swan? ... or the Marks Brothers? Just spitballing here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 No, that is not hyperbole, because I was being literal. If someone said Hoyer will be the 2014 starter, with conviction, prior to his start vs. Minnesota, I'll kindly retract. Simmer down... you got the year wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Did anyone proclaim Wilson to be Seattle's savior when they drafted him? I found this unexpected source prior to Hoyer's first start in Minnesota... Lombardi was/is high on Hoyer because he seems to have the mental aspect: He can read a defense before AND after the snap. He doesn't have slow eyes. He goes through the progressions. He isn't a high-end physical talent, to be sure. He has a mid-range arm and low-end wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Also found... Weeden had his chance this year to show he can see the field. He just doesn't, by NFL standards. Sure, any qb can eventually, in terms of several seconds (see big stupid ben)... but the ability to comprehensively see the field, and understand what is going on, and make quick decisions.. doesn't have anything to do with the big NFL arm. Sure, it was preseason, but Hoyer still sees it. And I underestimated his arm strength a whole lot. Just saw that Hoyer is the man a few minutes ago. Really smart move. Campbell doesn't see it any better than Weeden, and his passes didn't have zip. Hoyer is going to come into that game, and show the difference in QB mind vs Big Arm. There aren't many Brian Sipes or Bernie Kosars around for the Browns. And Hoyers ball placement is really, really smart. Do I have to find more or does two adequately disprove "no one"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 No sir, what I'm talking about is how no one--literally--had no idea this guy was going to come in and do anything positive. There was no expectation. No one watched his film, and said, "hey guys, I think this Hoyer signing might hve finally landed us our quarterback." No, you watched two games--one against a terrible Minnesota defense that ranked 31st in the NFL in pass defense (and only 12 interceptions all season, Hoyer threw 3 of them), and another against Cincy, which is a game the defense clearly won. Hoyer left points on the field against the Bengals, Campbell put up more than 17 on them. As I have shown, at least two posts looked positively upon Hoyer starting over Campbell prior to the MN game. Claiming that a lack of folks not being on his bandwagon from his signing is a statement without merit... unless it is hyperbole... in which case it would at least serve a purpose. I watched Hoyer start three games. Game 1: I saw a nervous QB getting his chance who nonetheless was decisive and sharp... excepting that he failed to account for underneath LBs ifor a couple throws. But I saw a QB who competed and put points on the board against an NFL defense and ultimately outscored a team we had issues keeping from scoring. Game 2: I saw a QB who in the face our the best Defensive effort of the season, first insured that he would not lose the game, but when Cinci closed to within 4 points in the 2nd half opened up enough to drive us to a game clinching TD. His line for the game: Game 3: I saw a QB who was off to a good 2-4 start before being injured. Bottom line: I saw a mature, improving NFL QB. I saw enough to not feel that I have to risk a precious first round pick on the off chance that one of the "top" QBs in the 2014 will take me further than Hoyer can. I'll admit I was skeptical about Hoyer and was even hoping Wheezy might recover and start the MN game... but I saw a leadership spark in Hoyer in preseason... and I said so... Leadership? God knows we need some on the Offense. I know I thought I saw a bit of a spark in preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 You're getting slightly annoying. As are you... sorry if I only read what you wrote and not between your lines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I found one person who said Hoyer would not only make the team, but he could "See a situation in which Hoyer starts"... He has 16 posts, and probably hasn't looked at this board since. So there you go, I was using hyperbole. Blow me. C'mon, Mike... that's beneath you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I am posting what I think... Stick to facts, make a logical argument and so will I... Start name-calling, which I will not stoop to, and we're done... Your call... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0hnnybg00d Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Hoyer, Bridgewater, and Bortles are good... Manziel sucks. Why would anyone want a streetballer to play for the Browns? This is Manziel in the huddle " Ok guys i don't have any idea what the defense is doing...so snap me the ball and i'll run around till someone gets open or i'll just run it myself and drop my shoulder and run over linebackers". He's more clueless than Weedone but can run. I was once blinded by his legs/heart and thought he was the man,but as a Brownsfan i don't want clueless behind center anymore. Read the week 3 and 4 game impressions if you want to understand the Hoyer love. We went from "its over" to "hey we can win". We went from thinking the team sucked except for a couple guys to thinking that the team was good and only a smart QB away from having something. Seems like only the writers and bloggers put Hoyer down in order to show off their new college QB thats gunna take us to the promise land. At least name a QB thats smarter than he is fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 After hi-jacking this thread enough, which was a good discussion about draft sleepers, I'm going to say this before leaving: How many teams need quarterbacks this season? There is going to be a "run" on them early on, and I'm starting to lean in Bridgewater's direction as the best prospect available. I was liking Bortles after watching a couple of his games, but after watching a few more last night I think he's not great at any one thing. Average arm, good mobility, does make progressions, but he doesn't look like he sees the game as fast as TB or even JF. After watching 8+ games of each, I see it: 1a. Bridgewater 1b. Manziel 2. Bortles Derek Carr would not be No. 3 unless others really fail to impress me. Am not a fan, but that's well-known I think. If both TB and Manziel are gone, I don't know if I'd take Bortles or anyone else with the No. 4 pick, and actually do it your way by taking a QB later. I could get behind a trade of some kind, but which direction do they go? If Clowney, Manziel and TB are all off the board, I would think about trading down or taking Watkins, I guess, because he will be a good-great NFL receiver--I don't doubt that. The only question I have now is whether I would trade up for either of those two quarterbacks. And I'm not sure. Good thing it's early February. This is one thing I can partially agree on. I think Teddy B is the best and most NFL ready QB prospect in this draft. Manziel is too risky IMO. Worth trading up for him? Too early to be seen. Right now I'm inclined to say no for what it'd probably cost. I don't believe the Manziel/Houston hype all that much. I think if they do end up taking Manziel then the Jags have a good chance of taking him or at least strongly considering taking him. That's why I'm on the Watkins/Clowney/Garappolo side of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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