Taco918 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 You speak of Socrates and evolution but it seems you've missed the point. Socrates willfully died at the hands of an oppressive government, despite having a way out, because he was cognizant of fact that the same government that condemned him to die on nebulous charges also allowed him to become the man that he was. He knew he would be nothing without the structure and environment his government fostered. He is also known as the father of Western culture, specifically government. Evolution, the only true natural law (survival and reproduction), is survival of the fittest. While humans may reign over the animal kingdom, we still must adhere to the laws of nature. While we are capable of forgoing those basic laws, we do so for the propagation and well being of our species, a train of thought well within the spectrum of evolution. What you wish for is beyond idealistic. It, frankly, will never be. It would be in direct contradiction of natural law and basic logic. I mean this with no ill intent, but you're idea makes Karl Marx seem like a rational human being. As for the pictures. Human beings are animals. Our natural disposition is to take advantage of anything we perceive to be different or weaker than ourselves, but that's evolution. It's unfortunately in our genes. We could theoretically remove those genes but that would involve massive funding on a national scale. I would say taxes but that's an infringement in freedom so....what to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXDawg Posted August 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 You speak of Socrates and evolution but it seems you've missed the point. Socrates willfully died at the hands of an oppressive government, despite having a way out, because he was cognizant of fact that the same government that condemned him to die on nebulous charges also allowed him to become the man that he was. He knew he would be nothing without the structure and environment his government fostered. He is also known as the father of Western culture, specifically government. I'm not referencing Socrates for his political beliefs. Referenced him to show how to think not what to think. Evolution, the only true natural law (survival and reproduction), is survival of the fittest. While humans may reign over the animal kingdom, we still must adhere to the laws of nature. While we are capable of forgoing those basic laws, we do so for the propagation and well being of our species, a train of thought well within the spectrum of evolution. what laws of nature are we avoiding? I'm not sure what you mean here. Please clarify and what it has to do with man made global warming. To me MMGW is blaming a dinosaur for a hungry rabbit. I think that's way too simplistic. What you wish for is beyond idealistic. It, frankly, will never be. It would be in direct contradiction of natural law and basic logic. I mean this with no ill intent, but you're idea makes Karl Marx seem like a rational human being. cool opinion. and a touch of shame at the end. but you meant no ill intent, right,ricky bobby? what did you mean then? You can call me immoral if you like, or illogical, just back that up. maybe quote me directly so I know what you're referencing. but you said nothing. you made no argument. you just colored my beliefs with your marker Is the initiation of force moral or not? I do not think the initiation of force is moral. IF you're not willing to answer this question, then you're not addressing my beliefs and I don't know what we''re talking about. Is it moral to initiate force on another person? If so, why and in what circumstances. If you can try to make the force done in your name as abstract as possible, as out of site and out of mind as you can so you don't have to recognize it. But that doesn't change the fact immoral force is being used for your benefit and you support and advocate for it's expansion. As for the pictures. Human beings are animals. Our natural disposition is to take advantage of anything we perceive to be different or weaker than ourselves, but that's evolution. It's unfortunately in our genes. We could theoretically remove those genes but that would involve massive funding on a national scale. I would say taxes but that's an infringement in freedom so....what to do? jesus. not give a centralized authority a monopoly on force thats fore sure. You do realize government is made up of these animals you're talking about, right? that you're willing to submit to. I answered that. I agree it's a challenge but lucky for us, we teach humans. how about we quit hitting children? or giving kids guns to play with? how about teaching virtue and morality instead of the importance of status symbol clothes. Teach empathy and reasoning skills instead of using bureaucratic force. Rules are forced on us as children, so when we get older, we force others with rules. And the cycle continues. Why are some cultures more violent than others" cause they beat the shit out of their children. I can't make the genetic argument it seems like you can but statistics I've read have shown exposure to violence as a child makes a kid much much much more likely to commit violence as an adult. Win people over with logic, not force. Is it possible? I don't know if we can overcome our parasitical nature. But I do believe not trying isn't the right plan of action at all. At the end of the day you can only be responsible for yourself and if you reject the initiation of force, you are not a dumb animal. You're a moral man. Maybe that's enough. I don't know. But what I do know is the initiation of force is wrong. So what's right? still looking trying to eliminate. I won't force you to participate. I'm just tired of this game of who has read more, or has a bigger vocabulary or better at shaming language, fox news, bush, obama, loop holes. I'm just tired of it all. It's so pointless, no on ever changes there mind. I propose having conversations based on morality. To think about things I think we've become numb to. To truly challenge ourselves to personally become better people. not what we want to force on others. but how to make ourselves better people If that is anarchy or TXDawgism, I don't care. I'm just ready to stop the stupid. “To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."Pierre-Joseph Proudhon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Well, I'll give you this TX, you're different. I disagree with the vast majority of what you said, but it was different. If you talked like that 100s of years ago you may have a religion named after you. Today though.... Not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Pretty deep stuff Tex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXDawg Posted August 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Well, I'll give you this TX, you're different. I disagree with the vast majority of what you said, but it was different. If you talked like that 100s of years ago you may have a religion named after you. Today though.... Not so much Which IMO proves we've regressed as a species since the Enlightenment period. It's not progressive to rebrand the use of centralized force. I believe this stuff for one simple reason: I truly believe that when presented with the actual argument, people are moral and will choose morality over parasitical selfishness. the vast majority of people are good. the only reason people allow force is because most don't have to see it. if we called tax, theft. war, murder. If people had to witness force, I don't think they would support it. You and I disagree but I refuse to believe you would be ok with seeing someone forced to live for your benefit. I don't think you have that evil inside of you even though I completely think your political beliefs are exactly that. Our entire tax code is a game of which coconut is the ball under. People still think the rich pay taxes. They don't, they never will no matter what because they have a monopoly on force. Again, the rich will never pay taxes because they have a monopoly on force. Bombs are not subject to hyperinflation. Taxation is the theft of labor. of time. of personal production. This has to be hidden. Imagine a government that didn't control the currency so they couldn't just print more money. A government that could not steal, print, or sell the labor of future generations. That government would have to ask the public for funds to go to war. Would you be willing to work 1 day a week to kill people overseas? You don't get to see it that way though because they would have zero power if you did. government needs to make the use of force so abstract you don't question how you got the government cheese, you just focus on the good the cheese provides you and those around you. If you had to look at a picture of a poor skinny chinese kid every-time you took a step in a Nike shoe, you might find different shoes. government attracts people who want to control others. who are attracted by power. Government isn't the right type of cheese to catch the guy who doesn't care what you do. That's what terrifies me about Obama, Hillary and Paul Ryan types. Eventually this will have to happen or we will die as a species. Global Warming is irrelevant if we cant learn how to get rid of our violent parasitical tendencies. In the past we've tried to force the force out of us. That does not work. Raping someone will not make them love you. The only way to save mankind is to eliminate the use of force on each other. The only way to do that is with the elimination of force entirely. This is where big government supporters go wrong. They think the government can get rid of force-evil-racism-immoral behavior, when in fact, government has been a supporter of this behavior the entire time. It's not easy to personally apply this stuff. I am forced into situations where I am constantly contradicting myself. It's a work in progress. I fully admit that. The hardest part is understanding the game of chess is being played but morally only being allowed to play checkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXDawg Posted August 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Pretty deep stuff Tex. I became an uncle 2 days ago. When I look at his face I see someone better than me that's going to be corrupted by everyone around me until he becomes me. So maybe I can become a better person. so that's the reason for the jerry mcguire moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 You're borderline crazy conspiracy person to me now. With the metaphors and the heavy language. You're taking the bad aspects of a not perfect govt system and using that as reasoning to be against all govt. That's poor reasoning. Tax is not theft. Your money is then used to improve the country as a whole which helps you out. Is it a perfect system? No. But we're better of with it. I still love the "evolution caused mmgw" line. Or "we aren't gods, we're just monkeys"... Lol. Yes, we are basically very well developed monkeys. Yes, we can effect the world on a global scale. Yes, we can change what we do and how we do it to affect it less negatively. You do though agree with evolution though, correct? You aren't a creationist or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXDawg Posted August 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 You're borderline crazy conspiracy person to me now. With the metaphors and the heavy language. You're taking the bad aspects of a not perfect govt system and using that as reasoning to be against all govt. That's poor reasoning. government is force. that's all it is. government cannot build a road or feed the poor, it can only force others to build a road or to feed the poor. Government is a central authority that has a monopoly on the use of force. this is not a new concept. it is not a radical concept. IT is not a conspiracy theory. It is factual. Government is a central authority that has a monopoly on the use of force. You can argue it benefits some people, but you can't say it benefits all because it doesn't. Do I really need to cite those the government harms? Is the initiation of force moral? you can't help but use shaming tactics, that hints to me you have no moral rebuttal. you say i'm talking about bad aspects of government, when i'm telling you i believe all government is, is force. I'm defining the term so you understand my context yet you go off on me for having poor reasoning. If I believe all the government is, is force; why am I being unreasonable? Is the initiation of force moral? Tax is not theft. Your money is then used to improve the country as a whole which helps you out. Is it a perfect system? No. But we're better of with it. no, my money which represents my labor is taken from me by force to enforce something that I never agreed to. save the democracy talking point. anarchy is democracy taken seriously. If I had the opportunity to not agree it would mean I wasn't under force. the country as a whole? who defines "improve"? Did the Iraq War improve the country as a whole? Vietnam? Did forcing banks to take on high-risk loans benefit the whole country? Stolen money used. Government has no money. Government has guns, prisons, a monopoly on force. What word would you like to use? It's collected by force. is extortion better? I don't believe in legality like it's the final straw. "well its legal". that's like a christian saying its ok to stone a woman to death because its in the bible. It's immoral to initiate force in order to take one's property or labor. It doesn't make it moral when someone says its for jesus, it isn't moral when someone says its for government. jesus is better for the country as a whole, you know? I still love the "evolution caused mmgw" line. Or "we aren't gods, we're just monkeys"... Lol. Yes, we are basically very well developed monkeys. Yes, we can effect the world on a global scale. Yes, we can change what we do and how we do it to affect it less negatively. again, you're just restating my words in a way that makes them sound silly. What does that prove? why are you even responding? adding a lol and a giggle is not a rebuttal. sure we can change behavior, sure we can impact our environment, I'm on the john right now. That doesn't mean I can win a staring contest with the sun or separate myself from nature. I'm apart of this world just like everything else in it. Are bees causing obesity? I You do though agree with evolution though, correct? You aren't a creationist or anything. You seem pretty partial to your indoctrination.I'm not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I'm at work, I posted from my phone. I'm not going to take the time to respond to your rambling novel right now. I'm honestly having a hard time taking it seriously. I don't see this as "deep". It sounds like the ramblings of a stoner. Maybe you'd get better reception in a philosophy class or something. Look, I disagree with a lot of that. You just keep repeating your vague, ominous, heavy language phrases. Yes, alright, government is force. Maybe if I watch those videos I'll get a better understanding. I've read the same vague statements, the same non answers, and the same examples of bad govt. I don't look at the Holocaust and use that as my perception of govt. I can list positive things from govt, would that offset your list? I'm driving home to Cleveland after work. I'll try to remember tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Thats pretty deep woodpecker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 And Tex I think the best thing to do is enjoy life to the fullest while you can. Don't worry about the shit you can't change or it will drive you crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXDawg Posted August 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 I keep repeating it to Try to find a way to explain it to you. I've simplified it as much as I possibly can. It's like I've put you on libtard tilt, and all you can do is shame and dismiss my thoughts because you believe youre morally superior. Now that I've challenged that, you don't know how to answer the question I keep asking. Cause in reality, you support the initiation of force. You're no different from Christians wanting to ban gays. Or 20th century southern democrats who believed in segregation. You want to initiate force to get what you think is right. Shame me as a rambling stoner all you want, I don't believe in initiating force on you to get you to support, promote, follow, or comply with my beliefs. I respect your liberty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXDawg Posted August 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 And Tex I think the best thing to do is enjoy life to the fullest while you can. Don't worry about the shit you can't change or it will drive you crazy. Ill put my guns down after the federalies. But I do enjoy life. I find this enjoyable. I have a russian girlfriend who thinks 12% interest is good; this conversation is much more pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXDawg Posted August 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/opinion/a-plan-to-auction-pollution-permits.html?ref=opinion&_r=1"Representative Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland, plans to introduce legislation today that would require coal, oil and natural gas companies to buy a permit for each ton of carbon in the fuels they sell. Permits would be auctioned, and 100 percent (because force is free?-derp) of the proceeds would be returned straight to the American people as equal dividends for every woman, man and child... Prices of fossil fuels would rise as the cap tightened, spurring private investment (spurring! aka, fixing the game) in energy efficiency and clean energy. Energy companies would pass the cost of permits to consumers in the form of higher fuel prices. But (if you call within the next 30 minutes you get an extra wapper dapper for free, that's 2 wapper dappers for the price of 1!) for most families, the gain in carbon dividends would be greater than the pain (He knows how to quantify your pain, he knows your feelings). In fact, my calculations show that more than 80 percent of American households would come out ahead financially — and that doesn’t even count the benefits of cleaner air and a cooler planet... (ok, I'm being trolled by the NYT)The outsize consumption — and outsize carbon footprints — of the richest 10 percent of Americans means that they’ll furnish a similarly high fraction of the carbon dollars generated by household spending on gasoline, electricity, airplane trips and so on. For these households, the dividends won’t outweigh the costs. But the affluent can afford to pay for their emissions." You want to win the global warming debate? Stop people from even saying shit like this. You can't let snake oil salesman front your movement. this is ridiculous. "every man woman and child"? "airplane trips" "100%"? is this meant for adults? Quit the leftist bullshit so you can earn credibility. Class warfare, false statistics, false claims, emotional arguments, force, more laws. Yea, lefties are not the only ones who do this, billy did it too isn't justification. just adding another coconut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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