cvcanedy Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 After last nights performance by Hill do we have any reason to fear that Sumlin's system makes anyone look like a stud? I know JM is a special player no matter what, but was that inflated in this system? Just curious. That oline was crazy.
TexasAg1969 Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Hill is no slouch either. Son of a former Major league pitcher who taught him from day one how to think like a pro. You still have to deliver the ball accurately to the open receiver in Sumlin's system. And yes, I've been saying all along that they have the best LT in college ball protecting the blind side, better even than his two predecessors who went #2 and #6 overall when they came out. That does not mean that Johnny was not special and unique. Most any player who has ever QB'd that level will tell you that they had to adapt Sumlin's system to him and now they are going back to how Sumlin drew it up for "normal" great QB's. Here's a nice little article for your perusal. http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/08/29/texas-am-south-carolina-kevin-sumlin-kenny-hill
MasterDog Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Are you guys serious? This has been discussed before. That program is full of stud players on the offensive side of the ball. I believe JFF was a result of the great players and system around him.
cvcanedy Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Posted August 29, 2014 Yes, I'm serious. I'm also on this board every single day and don't renember this discussion. So much JF stuff got buried in the first month with fanboys and vitriol.
MasterDog Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Yes, I'm serious. I'm also on this board every single day and don't renember this discussion. So much JF stuff got buried in the first month with fanboys and vitriol. True. During his tenure at A&M, Manziel play with the following players: Luke Joekel - 2nd overall in 2013 draft Mathews - 6th overall in 2014 draft Cedric Ogbuehi - Potential top 5 pick in 2015 Draft Mike Evans - 7th overall in 2014 draft That's some serious talent on the offensive line and an elite WR that can get everything.
cvcanedy Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Posted August 29, 2014 True. During his tenure at A&M, Manziel play with the following players: Luke Joekel - 2nd overall in 2013 draft Mathews - 6th overall in 2014 draft Cedric Ogbuehi - Potential top 5 pick in 2015 Draft Mike Evans - 7th overall in 2014 draft That's some serious talent on the offensive line and an elite WR that can get everything. It's crazy to me how different the college and pro game can be sometimes. Watching the A and M game last night reminded me how open those receivers are and how many missed tackles, it's a crapshoot drafting for some positions.
MasterDog Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 It's crazy to me how different the college and pro game can be sometimes. Watching the A and M game last night reminded me how open those receivers are and how many missed tackles, it's a crapshoot drafting for some positions. That's exactly what i saw last year watching JFF. Incredible protection that requires him to simply SIT in the pocket. He make things look a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Hill demonstrated that last night with incredible protection from Ogbuehi. When the blind side is taken care of, a QB should be comfortable passing the ball with great efficiency.
TexasAg1969 Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 That's exactly what i saw last year watching JFF. Incredible protection that requires him to simply SIT in the pocket. He make things look a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Hill demonstrated that last night with incredible protection from Ogbuehi. When the blind side is taken care of, a QB should be comfortable passing the ball with great efficiency. Ogbuehi-something we finally agree on MD. But as long as we are discussing A&M, here is the NEXT "Mike Evans". Remember the name for draft day in 2016 or 2017. Ricky Seal-Jones. 6-5, 235 with 4.4 speed and huge hands gifted enough to play QB in HS.
jim_brown Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Ogbuehi-something we finally agree on MD. But as long as we are discussing A&M, here is the NEXT "Mike Evans". Remember the name for draft day in 2016 or 2017. Ricky Seal-Jones. 6-5, 235 with 4.4 speed and huge hands gifted enough to play QB in HS. when you pass for 511 yards against the #9 team in the nation in their stadium filled with 80,000 loud/hostile fans...you're doing well....the OL was great...and those receivers played like the gamecocks' defense was in slow motion......if they can play like that against every team...most of whom don't win 11 games a year in the SEC, like SC does.....it's going to be a good season for sumlin and the aggies.....i thought hill was amazing.....good for him....can't get off to a much better start than that.....and what about that defense...take away those two long pass plays and they were outstanding too.....
Tour2ma Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Win cost a College Station furniture store a few bucks... http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/08/ashley-furniture-texas-am-promotion
cdl15 Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Yes, I'm serious. I'm also on this board every single day and don't renember this discussion. So much JF stuff got buried in the first month with fanboys and vitriol. Ive been sayin that i was curious how kenny Hill was going to do this year. HMMMMMM Breaks Jff school record in his first game against a top 10 sec team. That right there drops JFF stock. It may not matter but it shows JFF wasnt making the team better around him. He was part of a well oiled system.
jim_brown Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 good things tend to happen when you run 99 offensive plays in a game.....more than a few times the carolina defense just wasn't ready to defend.....playing at that speed really puts pressure on the defense...against a slow methodical offense, south carolina doesn't give up 52 points...and it could have easily been 59, if a&m hadn't taken their foot off the gas in the last 2 minutes.....
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 True. During his tenure at A&M, Manziel play with the following players: Luke Joekel - 2nd overall in 2013 draft Mathews - 6th overall in 2014 draft Cedric Ogbuehi - Potential top 5 pick in 2015 Draft Mike Evans - 7th overall in 2014 draft That's some serious talent on the offensive line and an elite WR that can get everything. It's the same argument that can be made about Trent Richardson, yet there are still people that claim Richardson is an extraordinary talented player. I will say that Manziel possesses an extraordinary knack for turning busted plays into gains, but I do believe the amount of talent around him absolutely contributed to the level of success he achieved at A&M. The guy is a QB that would have been drafted regardless of where he played or with who. His elusiveness would have seen to that. It's just that being surrounded by talent helped him get a Heisman, and that Heisman helped improve his draft ranking.
jim_brown Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 It's the same argument that can be made about Trent Richardson, yet there are still people that claim Richardson is an extraordinary talented player. I will say that Manziel possesses an extraordinary knack for turning busted plays into gains, but I do believe the amount of talent around him absolutely contributed to the level of success he achieved at A&M. The guy is a QB that would have been drafted regardless of where he played or with who. His elusiveness would have seen to that. It's just that being surrounded by talent helped him get a Heisman, and that Heisman helped improve his draft ranking. of course it did.....nobody does it on their own.....qb's aside, this years team is considerably better than last years....evans was/is great...but this year's wr crew are better than last years....and wait till they hit mid-season form.....more importantly, this year's defense is much improved.....hill won't have to score 52 every game to win.....last night he only had to score 29...and that was against a #9 ranked team in their house....the way the aggies are recruiting, they are going to be good, across the board, for quite a while......
cvcanedy Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Posted August 29, 2014 of course it did.....nobody does it on their own.....qb's aside, this years team is considerably better than last years....evans was/is great...but this year's wr crew are better than last years....and wait till they hit mid-season form.....more importantly, this year's defense is much improved.....hill won't have to score 52 every game to win.....last night he only had to score 29...and that was against a #9 ranked team in their house....the way the aggies are recruiting, they are going to be good, across the board, for quite a while...... Why the constant ellipses?
cuwoohio Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 True. During his tenure at A&M, Manziel play with the following players: Luke Joekel - 2nd overall in 2013 draft Mathews - 6th overall in 2014 draft Cedric Ogbuehi - Potential top 5 pick in 2015 Draft Mike Evans - 7th overall in 2014 draft That's some serious talent on the offensive line and an elite WR that can get everything. Yes it is, and all of those players played with Manziel too...........
MLD Woody Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 The Browns Board .com, official home of Aggie football!
TexasAg1969 Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 The Browns Board .com, official home of Aggie football! And if the Browns can get Ogbuehi, Seals-Jones and Garrett in the next few years, you'll be glad it is.
howdy2u Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 I'm A&M class of '94. For OP's question, this his been discussed at great length on TexAgs. My opinion, which seems pretty common there, is that Johnny is a special talent who was fortunate enough to play in a system that highlighted his skills, for coaches that were willing to adapt the system to the players. So was Johnny's success at A&M due to him or was it the system? Is it the peanut butter or the chocolate? Both - they went well together. As for Kenny Hill, he did a stellar job running Sumlin's system closer to its design than Johnny did. But I'd still take Johnny back without a second thought.
jim_brown Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 I'm A&M class of '94. For OP's question, this his been discussed at great length on TexAgs. My opinion, which seems pretty common there, is that Johnny is a special talent who was fortunate enough to play in a system that highlighted his skills, for coaches that were willing to adapt the system to the players. So was Johnny's success at A&M due to him or was it the system? Is it the peanut butter or the chocolate? Both - they went well together. As for Kenny Hill, he did a stellar job running Sumlin's system closer to its design than Johnny did. But I'd still take Johnny back without a second thought. i hope kyle allen gets to play in some of these non conference games coming up....he's supposed to have a great arm...i'd like to see it in action....
howdy2u Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 Agreed on Kyle Allen. From everything I've heard, their performance was very close in the preseason QB competition and Kenny got the nod based more on experience than talent. Remind you of anything? :-)
jim_brown Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 Ive been sayin that i was curious how kenny Hill was going to do this year. HMMMMMM Breaks Jff school record in his first game against a top 10 sec team. That right there drops JFF stock. It may not matter but it shows JFF wasnt making the team better around him. He was part of a well oiled system. i don't want to take anything away from kenny hill...that was a great job...and yes he threw for 511 yards and broke johnny's record of 464 yards against alabama (another quality team) last year...but when you look at the total picture...it was the aggie defense that made the difference...last year the defense couldn't get the opposing offense off the field....and against alabama (where johhny set his record) the aggies only possessed the ball for 24:58 minutes....against south carolina, the aggies possessed the ball fro 37:38 minutes...a huge difference....against carolina the aggies had time to run 99 plays; against alabama last year they only had time to run 76 plays....that's the difference...against alabama in 2013 the aggies, with manziel, gained 25.15 yards/minute....against SC, the aggies, with hill, only gained 18.07 yards/min....another interesting stat: hill gained 511 passing on 60 attempts or 8.52 yd/att; against alabama manziel passed for 464 yds on 39 attempts for an ave of 11.89 yd/att; manziel's passing yds/att for the whole year (in 2013) were 9.6 yd/att...better than hills average in his record breaking game.....like i say...i don't want to take anything away from hill...but manziel's averages were better on a per attempt or per minute basis....hill has the luxury of playing with a decent defense...that could even handle a good team like south carolina....we all know the aggies defense last year sucked and they struggled against just about everyone....
Tour2ma Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 As for Kenny Hill, he did a stellar job running Sumlin's system closer to its design than Johnny did. But I'd still take Johnny back without a second thought. Deal! Welcome to the forum... I will say that Manziel possesses an extraordinary knack for turning busted plays into gains... Matched only by his willingness to bust plays that were there...
SCDawg82 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Posted August 31, 2014 Whatever! They beat the piss out of Carolina and it was great!!!
TexasAg1969 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Posted August 31, 2014 Just sayin'-got to draft this guy! Browns miss on this with the Buffalo pick then shame on us. "Texas A&M OT Cedric Ogbuehi was as good as advertised in his first game at left tackle for the Aggies. The 6-5, 305-pound senior dominated the line of scrimmage with his combination of size, strength and power, while also exhibiting the technical skills that scouts covet in premier offensive tackles. He repeated stoned Gamecock defenders with strong jams following short sets, which left them unable to harass Hill in the pocket. Consequently, the Aggies' young QB enjoyed a banner day without facing much pressure from a defense that normally bullies passers into submission. Given the importance NFL evaluators place on protecting the quarterback in the pocket, Ogbuehi's strong showing at left tackle will only enhance his value in war rooms around the league." Bucky Brooks-NFL Media Analyst See any fat there? http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/01/80582041.jpg
Tour2ma Posted August 31, 2014 Report Posted August 31, 2014 See any fat there? http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/01/80582041.jpg Yes... but not much.
jim_brown Posted August 31, 2014 Report Posted August 31, 2014 i don't want to take anything away from kenny hill...that was a great job...and yes he threw for 511 yards and broke johnny's record of 464 yards against alabama (another quality team) last year...but when you look at the total picture...it was the aggie defense that made the difference...last year the defense couldn't get the opposing offense off the field....and against alabama (where johhny set his record) the aggies only possessed the ball for 24:58 minutes....against south carolina, the aggies possessed the ball fro 37:38 minutes...a huge difference....against carolina the aggies had time to run 99 plays; against alabama last year they only had time to run 76 plays....that's the difference...against alabama in 2013 the aggies, with manziel, gained 25.15 yards/minute....against SC, the aggies, with hill, only gained 18.07 yards/min....another interesting stat: hill gained 511 passing on 60 attempts or 8.52 yd/att; against alabama manziel passed for 464 yds on 39 attempts for an ave of 11.89 yd/att; manziel's passing yds/att for the whole year (in 2013) were 9.6 yd/att...better than hills average in his record breaking game.....like i say...i don't want to take anything away from hill...but manziel's averages were better on a per attempt or per minute basis....hill has the luxury of playing with a decent defense...that could even handle a good team like south carolina....we all know the aggies defense last year sucked and they struggled against just about everyone.... if the manziel had thrown 60 times against alabama last year, at 11.89 yd/attempt, he would have thrown for 713 yards....over 200 more than hill's new record......on the other hand, if the aggie defense continues to hang tough and hill and the offense continues to get over 37 minutes of possession each game...katie bar the door...the aggies will be headed for the national championship.....but with auburn, alabama, lsu, and other sec power houses still to come, it's wishful thinking that they can dominate all those team like they did south carolina....still a great start...sumlin has done a fantastic job recruiting and getting his team ready....let's hope he stays in college station a long time....
jim_brown Posted August 31, 2014 Report Posted August 31, 2014 Just sayin'-got to draft this guy! Browns miss on this with the Buffalo pick then shame on us. "Texas A&M OT Cedric Ogbuehi was as good as advertised in his first game at left tackle for the Aggies. The 6-5, 305-pound senior dominated the line of scrimmage with his combination of size, strength and power, while also exhibiting the technical skills that scouts covet in premier offensive tackles. He repeated stoned Gamecock defenders with strong jams following short sets, which left them unable to harass Hill in the pocket. Consequently, the Aggies' young QB enjoyed a banner day without facing much pressure from a defense that normally bullies passers into submission. Given the importance NFL evaluators place on protecting the quarterback in the pocket, Ogbuehi's strong showing at left tackle will only enhance his value in war rooms around the league." Bucky Brooks-NFL Media Analyst See any fat there? http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/01/80582041.jp myles garrett is the guy who has me excited that the aggies may actually have a pass rush this year,,,,,
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