Guest ATENEARS Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 You can almost point to that debactle in New York as the game that has disrupted us both offensively and defensively. We have reverted back to 'LeBron Ball' and are as far aaway from playing good team ball with sound chemistry as we've been all season. LeBron is too immature to lead us to a title at this time. We need a true championship vet in here to show us the way ... or a coach who's 'been there'. I'm starting to point fingers at Coach Brown again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohioborn Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 You can almost point to that debactle in New York as the game that has disrupted us both offensively and defensively. We have reverted back to 'LeBron Ball' and are as far aaway from playing good team ball with sound chemistry as we've been all season. LeBron is too immature to lead us to a title at this time. We need a true championship vet in here to show us the way ... or a coach who's 'been there'. I'm starting to point fingers at Coach Brown again ... Whatever!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRAVY_insane Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I dont think this is entirely it, but I'm sure it didnt help either. I think Coach Browns inability to gameplan worth a shit is our biggest problem. Screw chemistry we need some gamers and some bangers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Whatever!! They've struggled with the Knicks, got embarrassed by the Lakers, and were reduced to crying about a foul in a loss to the Pacers ... meanwhile Lebron goes happy-shit launching shots from everywhere but the Empire State building in NY, doesn't save any energy to play defense, get's timid inside against LA, and then expects his teammates to still be in gear in Indianapolis? If they come out with this cluster-fuck hodge-podge offense tonight, I'd can Mike Browns ass. Is Chuck Daly off life support still? This is the fourth best team in Cavs franchise history ... the other three couldn't get it done, why would anyone think this team will? If Phoenix leaves town tonight with the same players they rolled in with ... I hope the Cavs lose 12 straight when we resume after the all-star break. Save us the misery. In fact, I hope the Pistons land Stoudimire and catch our asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTBH Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Normally, I would be 100% saying that ATE is overreacting. And he is, but I can't say I blame him. You can say it's just the regular season, but every game is a must win with how the Magic, Celtics and Lakers. The more games we lose, the smaller chance we have of securing home court in the East or securing it for the finals against the Lakers. Every game is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Me over-react? LOL, ok maybe I'm guilty ... just trying to get fire behind this team. I still think we have that Cleveland loser mentality, where we are content to just be mentioned as good, and don't have that last bit of fire and desire to go out and bitch-slap that championship back to Cleveland. I don't think this team can do it ... I use to, but at the All-star break I don't think we are good enough. However, I will add that I don't think anyone else is either. The Lakers are the closest, but it is definately a down year ... ripe for the pickings, let's go grab the damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohioborn Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Me over-react? LOL, ok maybe I'm guilty ... just trying to get fire behind this team. I still think we have that Cleveland loser mentality, where we are content to just be mentioned as good, and don't have that last bit of fire and desire to go out and bitch-slap that championship back to Cleveland. I don't think this team can do it ... I use to, but at the All-star break I don't think we are good enough. However, I will add that I don't think anyone else is either. The Lakers are the closest, but it is definately a down year ... ripe for the pickings, let's go grab the damn thing. Oh I agree that they are not playing very well but to keep putting it on LBJ is crazy. In the Laker game he tries over and over to get his teammates involved but no one could hit a shot nor get a rebound. The same thing against the Pacers. He had 47 points and would have had 11 or 12 assists if it was not for easy missed shots. The turnovers, some were his fault but some were players not being in the right spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTBH Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I agree that Bron was selfish in New York. I do not, however, think it "spun" the Cavs out of control. Bron didn't all of a sudden get egotistical for just one night. He's been that way his whole career, whether you realize it or not. His passing, which people call unselfish, are normally flashy passes to get ooh's and ahh's instead of routine passes to run the offense. On defense, he cares more about flashy blocks and steals than actual man-up defense. His biggest happiness come from break away dunks and end of quarter, half court shots so that he can get ooh's and ahh's. People that think just because he passes that makes him unselfish, and that's just plain wrong. This team has been used to him playing egotistically and selfishly. I don't think that threw them off. I just think they lost two games in a row with 2 guards injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohioborn Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I agree that Bron was selfish in New York. I do not, however, think it "spun" the Cavs out of control. Bron didn't all of a sudden get egotistical for just one night. He's been that way his whole career, whether you realize it or not. His passing, which people call unselfish, are normally flashy passes to get ooh's and ahh's instead of routine passes to run the offense. On defense, he cares more about flashy blocks and steals than actual man-up defense. His biggest happiness come from break away dunks and end of quarter, half court shots so that he can get ooh's and ahh's. People that think just because he passes that makes him unselfish, and that's just plain wrong. This team has been used to him playing egotistically and selfishly. I don't think that threw them off. I just think they lost two games in a row with 2 guards injured. Bottom line! If LBJ is not on this team were are a .500 team. He is the best "basketball player" in the league and he is playing for "Cleveland", enjoy the ride because we could soon be back to .500 ball and you will look back and say, I did know how good we had it until it was gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I agree that Bron was selfish in New York. I do not, however, think it "spun" the Cavs out of control. Bron didn't all of a sudden get egotistical for just one night. He's been that way his whole career, whether you realize it or not. His passing, which people call unselfish, are normally flashy passes to get ooh's and ahh's instead of routine passes to run the offense. On defense, he cares more about flashy blocks and steals than actual man-up defense. His biggest happiness come from break away dunks and end of quarter, half court shots so that he can get ooh's and ahh's. People that think just because he passes that makes him unselfish, and that's just plain wrong. This team has been used to him playing egotistically and selfishly. I don't think that threw them off. I just think they lost two games in a row with 2 guards injured. This is a good thread, I think Skippy's intent was to get people talking, and it worked. I agree with Dawg's comments that every game is so important. This is a team that can win it all ... how many of those does Cleveland get? I have sort of a "nervousness" this year because I want to see them get over the top. I also want to see the city of Cleveland get over over the top and see the confidence spread to the Indians and Browns that this city can win the big game. And I am concerned that if we do not make the right move, and this season falls short, that increases Lebron's frustration level and he more easily walks year after next, and the Cavs go back to being one of the Washington Generals teams for the rest of the league There are some really good teams in the NBA this year, this is not a "down year" like the NFL was this past year. The Lakers and Celtics are elite. The Magic are very , very good. The Eastern conference is finally getting stronger and deeper, and the West still has several strong teams like the Spurs and Nuggets that will challange the Lakers. I think it is critical that we get that #1 seed ... here is the difference right now between being #1 and #2 or #3: #1: Host Milwaulkee, Host Atlanta/ Philly, Host Boston / Orlando survivor. #2 or #3: Host Detroit/ Miami, Battle Boston / Orlando, Road at Boston /Orlando Tougher first round, gotta play the Big Boys twice instead of once, and without home court advantage. Huge difference. So count me in to the "I'm really enjoying this season but we cannot afford to lose to the effing Pacers" crowd. I want the #1 seed, and we are not going to get it if we don't have big guys who can block out with their bodies and crash the boards. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohioborn Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 This is a good thread, I think Skippy's intent was to get people talking, and it worked. I agree with Dawg's comments that every game is so important. This is a team that can win it all ... how many of those does Cleveland get? I have sort of a "nervousness" this year because I want to see them get over the top. I also want to see the city of Cleveland get over over the top and see the confidence spread to the Indians and Browns that this city can win the big game. And I am concerned that if we do not make the right move, and this season falls short, that increases Lebron's frustration level and he more easily walks year after next, and the Cavs go back to being one of the Washington Generals teams for the rest of the league There are some really good teams in the NBA this year, this is not a "down year" like the NFL was this past year. The Lakers and Celtics are elite. The Magic are very , very good. The Eastern conference is finally getting stronger and deeper, and the West still has several strong teams like the Spurs and Nuggets that will challange the Lakers. I think it is critical that we get that #1 seed ... here is the difference right now between being #1 and #2 or #3: #1: Host Milwaulkee, Host Atlanta/ Philly, Host Boston / Orlando survivor. #2 or #3: Host Detroit/ Miami, Battle Boston / Orlando, Road at Boston /Orlando Tougher first round, gotta play the Big Boys twice instead of once, and without home court advantage. Huge difference. So count me in to the "I'm really enjoying this season but we cannot afford to lose to the effing Pacers crowd". I want the #1 seed, and we are not going to get it if we don't have big guys who can block out with their bodies and crash the boards. Zombo Good Post!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Relax. CLE lost 2 games in a row for the first time this season. Did anyone really believe that would never happen. All the teams people are now jumping on saying they are better than CLE have lost 2 games in a row. It is nothing but a blip in the regular season. It means nothing. To blame it on James's game in NY is just a huge reach. Yeah, a near triple double is selfish play Quit listening to Skip Bayless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Thank you! Somewhere along the line people started thinking that selfish meant winning. No kidding. Kobe's performance there a few night earlier was selfish play. But the Lakers still won too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTBH Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 No kidding. Kobe's performance there a few night earlier was selfish play. But the Lakers still won too. I strongly disagree. Kobe got 61 because he happened to be having a particularly great shooting night (19-31 including 3-6 from 3 pt), combined with hitting 20-20 from the free throw line. LeBron got 52 on, basically, an average shooting night (17-33 including 2-7 from 3 pt) He just took extra shots to get to 52, after all the talk about Kobe's 61 two days earlier. He clearly had it in the front of his mind and wanted to one up Kobe. He even ignored the defensive end to get it. If you're going to tell me LeBron wasn't being seflish and trying to have a great individual night above all else, then you're saying it's by just mere CHANCE that he scored 52 by taking average shots in the same place Kobe scored 61 two days earlier. And that it also had nothing to do with all the talk all day on ESPN about what LeBron would put up that night. Not likely. They won despite LeBron being selfish, not because of it. Again, if people are crazy naive if they think he's unselfish just because he passes the ball sometimes and says the right things in interviews. It's like that Chene Thompson, the wife of state rep Nick Thompson, donating a home to that homeless lady. She's not unselfish and caring because she did it, she only did it for the publicity and the political gains. Otherwise, she would have been donating everything she had all along to all homeless people. Bron doesn't pass because he's unselfish, he passes both to get ohh's and ahh's on his flashy passes, to get assists, and to get a "good teammate" rep. There are more types of selfish than the Ricky Davis, all out, don't care what you think selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 This is far to easy. Did you watch any of Kobe's game, or even the highlights? Sure, his shooting was on fire. But is it a non-selfish move or even a good idea to be taking off balance shots with two guys in your face? That is bad basketball. A little break down on the two games. Kobe vs. NYK 19-31 shooting (61%), no rebounds, and 3 assists. He also then shot 20 FTs. Now I don't know how many were shot attempts and how many were during fouls where the Knicks were in the penalty. But I'd venture to guess at least half of those were, and not an and 1. So just all out playing as a single scorer, doing nothing to really make your whole team play better. Combine in Kobe shot 31 times, while the other 4 starting players had a combined 30 shot attempts. James vs. NYK 17-33 shooting (51%), 9 rebounds, and 11 dimes. He also then shot 19 FTs. Like w/ Kobe, I don't know how many during fouls where the Knicks were in the penalty. But I'd venture to guess at least half of those were, and not an and 1. But I look at that stat line and go, sure James tossed up a few to many of his heat check 3 balls. At the same time he managed to toss up those shots, shoot a respectable percentage, yet still chip in big on the boards and dish out the ball to keep the offense going. Lebron shot the ball 33 times, while the other 4 starting players had a combined 37 shot attempts. Lebron didn't shoot more than the other 4 guys on the floor with him combined. When you see a player shooting more than the other 4 starters, and have ever watch "bad-Kobe", that was who you saw against the Knicks. The selfish I am doing it all by myself Kobe. Now I'll grant Kobe that he pulled out the "bad-Kobe" after Bynum went down and habits are hard to break. He pulled the same lapse last season when it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Bron doesn't pass because he's unselfish, he passes both to get ohh's and ahh's on his flashy passes, to get assists, and to get a "good teammate" rep. That has to be the biggest Bron hater thing I have ever heard. His rep amount his teammates, other NBA players, including guys on the olympic team and all-star teams have called Bron nothing but unselfish. Then throw in that when he was a HS player he filled out the stat sheet the same way, along with from day one in the NBA. Not to mention he said all the same things when he was an 18 year old senior ("I don't care if I score 50 or 2, all I care about is winning"). That ain't media PR coaching, not at 17 and 18. Does he pull out some fancy passes for ohh's and ahh's, sure of course he does. So does every good player in the NBA. It's part of the show. But the notion that he only does it for ohh's and ahh's, along with to just get a "good teammate" rep is straigh hatin'. Oh, and if you think averaging 7 dimes a nightt is just passing the ball sometimes, you are who is crazy naive. There are only 8 guys averaging more dimes a night, and they are PGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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