Crazy Start to 2014 Season

[ATENEARS]

 

no imagination or sense of humor.

 

now i know why you stay gone on this board for 10 months out of the year.

 

Your posts read like they are being viewed through a gyroscope ... and that you have Manziel penis envy.

[ATENEARS]

It was not stupid, but it was also not responsible... IMO.

I've corrected (JM did not play three snaps in a row) and completed your play sequences adding some pertinent down and distance info. Was the info left out intentionally for effect?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014091403/2014/REG2/saints@browns#menu=gameinfo&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

 

Not hating... just not blinded by love...

 

Kumbaya out...

 

Still looked like an attempt for the coaching staff to throw in a different look and/or feel in order to break-up some stale series, no matter how you doctor it up with "pertinent down and distance info".

 

The topic was whether it was "stupid" or not for them to attempt inserting Manziel at such a point in the game, with our without "pertinent down and distance info", I think it was worth the try. I like that they weren't just glad to be in the game, but were gonna use every resource they had to try to maintain or climb back into the lead and ultimately win.

 

The kick in the pants seemed to lift Hoyer's/teams offensive game out of a temporary funk.

[TexasAg1969]

I don't know why he's having issues this year.

 

It's the pitter patter of little (JFF) feet that keeps him nervous.

 

Mudfly said;

 

" It's just the JFF lovers who aren't happy with Hoyer wins, not Browns fans....."

 

That is totally unfair to us and totally untrue. Just because I think JFF will eventually win the job does not mean I want to see the Browns lose. Case in point. It was fun watching Farve win at GB, but eventually Rogers beat him out and continued to win. I doubt anyone who was following Rogers and the Packers wanted to see the Packers lose just so Farve could be replaced.

[miktoxic]

 

Your posts read like they are being viewed through a gyroscope ... and that you have Manziel penis envy.

 

ok walter.

 

if you actually did read my posts you know i don't hate manziel. anyone with a set of decent eyes can tell even the blind in-love manziel fan that he's not ready.

 

so why in the world throw a 2nd QB in the game when not necessary? ohh, we're going to scare rob ryan into adjusting his whole defensive scheme for the rest of the game? if manziel would have got flattened all you people would be screaming right now about how bad a decision it was.

 

except we're arguing about a 0 yard effort from someone who needs to stay on the bench for now.

 

btw, walter was the king of "what'd he fuck your girlfriend" or "your just jealous because he hangs out with Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche and hot chicks" (.......same thing in my book) so we've heard it all since draft day. you're just about 4 months late to the manziel man boy love party.

[calfoxwc]

I thought Manziel went in after Hoyer got sacked, or took a hit, and they

were talking to him after he came off the field ...

 

I'd have to go back and watch that part, which I don't have time to do....

[Mudfly]

 

It's the pitter patter of little (JFF) feet that keeps him nervous.

 

Mudfly said;

 

" It's just the JFF lovers who aren't happy with Hoyer wins, not Browns fans....."

 

That is totally unfair to us and totally untrue. Just because I think JFF will eventually win the job does not mean I want to see the Browns lose.

Re read my post in context .... I didnt say you WANT Hoyer to lose or that ALL JFF fans are a certain way.......

 

I said anyone who wasnt happy with Hoyer winning isnt a real Browns fan.....and anyone who would RATHER win with JFF, isnt a BROWNS fan but a JFF fan....

 

 

Case in point. It was fun watching Farve win at GB, but eventually Rogers beat him out and continued to win. I doubt anyone who was following Rogers and the Packers wanted to see the Packers lose just so Farve could be replaced.

 

But Rogers fans would RATHER have had Rogers than Favre and it wouldn't have been because they care about whats best for the team....it would only be because they are fans and want to see their guy....and thats how it is here.....The JFF ONLY fans are NOT here to see the Browns, they are here to see their favorite QB and, all things being equal, would rather have their guy in there.....

 

And there is nothing wrong with that....and it doesnt make you wrong.....it just makes you a JFF fan more than a Browns fan...see?

 

 

THAT might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.....why would a win from JFF be better than a win from Hoyer?......makes zero sense.

 

My question above clearly outlines the point......and if Im being so unfair, then WHY WOULD A WIN FROM JFF BE BETTER THEN????

 

It's just the JFF lovers who aren't happy with Hoyer wins, not Browns fans.....

[TexasAg1969]

OK Mudfly-as you further explained it, all is forgiven. LOL

[ATENEARS]

 

ok walter.

so we've heard it all since draft day. you're just about 4 months late to the manziel man boy love party.

 

Never been a Manziel fan in my life, so who's reading into things?

 

Just because you've whipped yourself in a Manziel hatefest from 4 months of big bad battle scars here on this wittle message board, doesn't mean I gotta play your little dungeons and dragon game here and take sides.

 

The topic is; the offense was struggling to win back momentum, Hoyer looked a little off and perhaps tired, the play calling was getting stale and we went to the tool shed for the shiny new Snap-on tool we purchased over the summer. We tried it for simple whacks, didn't seem to help, but all of a sudden that batteries recharged on our Ryobi screwdriver gun and lo-n-behold the project got finished on time.

 

Don't go Manziel fagging me, Milktoast.

[Mr. Make-Believe]

 

Never been a Manziel fan in my life, so who's reading into things?

 

Just because you've whipped yourself in a Manziel hatefest from 4 months of big bad battle scars here on this wittle message board, doesn't mean I gotta play your little dungeons and dragon game here and take sides.

 

The topic is; the offense was struggling to win back momentum, Hoyer looked a little off and perhaps tired, the play calling was getting stale and we went to the tool shed for the shiny new Snap-on tool we purchased over the summer. We tried it for simple whacks, didn't seem to help, but all of a sudden that batteries recharged on our Ryobi screwdriver gun and lo-n-behold the project got finished on time.

 

Don't go Manziel fagging me, Milktoast.

 

I don't see what you're seeing in a recharged attack via Johnny.

 

I DO see a strategy in which the Browns will throw whatever they can at their opposition in order to keep their offense on the field and put points up on the board... And if that includes tossing Johnny in there for a play here and there, then I'm all for it.

 

As a Browns fan, I don't care who gets my team wins. As long as they win. Hoyer hasn't been perfect by any means, but he's been good enough to inspire confidence. And he's winning. And as much as I want to see Manziel tear up this league in Cleveland, I'd be ecstatic to never have that opportunity because the guy in front of him continues to do what he's been doing.

[ATENEARS]

 

I don't see what you're seeing in a recharged attack via Johnny.

 

I DO see a strategy in which the Browns will throw whatever they can at their opposition in order to keep their offense on the field and put points up on the board... And if that includes tossing Johnny in there for a play here and there, then I'm all for it.

 

As a Browns fan, I don't care who gets my team wins. As long as they win. Hoyer hasn't been perfect by any means, but he's been good enough to inspire confidence. And he's winning. And as much as I want to see Manziel tear up this league in Cleveland, I'd be ecstatic to never have that opportunity because the guy in front of him continues to do what he's been doing.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Zombo]

 

I don't see what you're seeing in a recharged attack via Johnny.

 

I DO see a strategy in which the Browns will throw whatever they can at their opposition in order to keep their offense on the field and put points up on the board... And if that includes tossing Johnny in there for a play here and there, then I'm all for it.

 

As a Browns fan, I don't care who gets my team wins. As long as they win. Hoyer hasn't been perfect by any means, but he's been good enough to inspire confidence. And he's winning. And as much as I want to see Manziel tear up this league in Cleveland, I'd be ecstatic to never have that opportunity because the guy in front of him continues to do what he's been doing.

 

Putting Johnny in for a bit was a brilliant move by Pettine because now every team has to gameplan for him every week.

 

This is Hoyer's team and everyone in the building knows it.

 

Zombo

[hoorta]

 

It's the pitter patter of little (JFF) feet that keeps him nervous.

 

Mudfly said;

 

" It's just the JFF lovers who aren't happy with Hoyer wins, not Browns fans....."

 

That is totally unfair to us and totally untrue. Just because I think JFF will eventually win the job does not mean I want to see the Browns lose. Case in point. It was fun watching Farve win at GB, but eventually Rogers beat him out and continued to win. I doubt anyone who was following Rogers and the Packers wanted to see the Packers lose just so Farve could be replaced.

 

Ag, we know you're here not just for JF, so it's all good. And actually Johnny wears size 15 clodhoppers- pretty amazing for a guy that's a tad short of 6', not exactly little feet.

[Clevfan4life]

No I disagree. First Manziels pass was not a wobbler, Agnew just whiffed it period...not gonna come down hard on a FB though those kinds of passes are not what they're usually built to catch. Second, Hoyer can't run Shanahans bread and butter plays. Manziel can. Why on earth would we not try it a couple times a game at the right times? If Hoyer is stalling out, which will happen from time to time...there's no reason on earth not to freshen up the defense with those read option plays. In 2 or 3 years that's going to be our offense and johnny's gonna be running it so might as well give him some reps now.

Ten? Yeah not half bad... more like completely bad.

Pettine showed the threat thus continuing the threat. Three plays, netting zero yards, but including one pass was enough to keep the opposition preparing for two QBs.

 

[Tour2ma]

It was fun watching Farve win at GB, but eventually Rogers beat him out and continued to win.

More like the pack got tired of Favre's bullshit and sent him packing. Brian will not make it easy for this staff to make the change.

 

No I disagree. First Manziels pass was not a wobbler, Agnew just whiffed it period...not gonna come down hard on a FB though those kinds of passes are not what they're usually built to catch. Second, Hoyer can't run Shanahans bread and butter plays. Manziel can. Why on earth would we not try it a couple times a game at the right times? If Hoyer is stalling out, which will happen from time to time...there's no reason on earth not to freshen up the defense with those read option plays. In 2 or 3 years that's going to be our offense and johnny's gonna be running it so might as well give him some reps now.

On the JM pass to Agnew, I have the tape on my side...

 

Besides the read option, which is not a wise NFL play, what can "bread and butter" can't BH run better? Before JM keeps and runs ten of them, any QB discussion will be over for 2014.

 

The initial JM insertion... sure why not... but the team was moving prior to the 2nd insertion.

[Tour2ma]

Still looked like an attempt for the coaching staff to throw in a different look and/or feel in order to break-up some stale series, no matter how you doctor it up with "pertinent down and distance info".

Doctor up?

 

You omitted that a first down completion was negated by a holding penalty and the fact that the subsequent 3rd down not converted was a 3rd and 17. And I doctored up the play sequence?

[ATENEARS]

Doctor up?

 

You omitted that a first down completion was negated by a holding penalty and the fact that the subsequent 3rd down not converted was a 3rd and 17. And I doctored up the play sequence?

 

So now we are factoring Hoyer's passing stats negated by penalty into the equation? Nice!

 

Maybe I left off the downs on those particular plays because I left off the down on EVERY play I listed? Doh! It was a generalization, Barney.

[miktoxic]

 

My thoughts exactly.

mine too.

 

don't call me a manziel hater because he can't throw a spiral for shite.

[Clevfan4life]

More like the pack got tired of Favre's bullshit and sent him packing. Brian will not make it easy for this staff to make the change.

 

 

On the JM pass to Agnew, I have the tape on my side...

 

Besides the read option, which is not a wise NFL play, what can "bread and butter" can't BH run better? Before JM keeps and runs ten of them, any QB discussion will be over for 2014.

 

The initial JM insertion... sure why not... but the team was moving prior to the 2nd insertion.

 

Oh there is no qb discussion for 2014, I'm completely in agreement. I do not want to see JM start a single game this year. I'm just saying a couple snaps a game in the appropriate situation I think is a good idea. And I don't know what video you're looking at but JM only threw one pass against the Saints on sunday and it's easy to find the video. Just watched it, don't see any wobble to it but maybe the angle isn't right. It just looks like he overthrew Agnew. One of our receivers probably makes that catch, just not our FB. Can't be asking 270lb FB's to stretch out much for passes. I'm not gonna condemn either player for that miss.

[Tour2ma]

So now we are factoring Hoyer's passing stats negated by penalty into the equation? Nice!

 

Maybe I left off the downs on those particular plays because I left off the down on EVERY play I listed? Doh! It was a generalization, Barney.

Generalization? Nah... dishonesty... that which does not support your point must be omitted or altered.

When you edit a simple copy & paste, it is for a reason...

When you chose to pretend that I'm altering stats, it is for a reason...

Left in the information that you omitted, and I reinserted, adds context that IMO undermines your position...

 

Here's the straight copy/ paste of Q3's first series... Manziel's good series...

1-10-CLE 15 (14:56) 28-T.West right tackle to CLE 24 for 9 yards (93-J.Galette; 57-D.Hawthorne). Pitch out

2-1-CLE 24 (14:32) (No Huddle) 28-T.West left guard to CLE 25 for 1 yard (57-D.Hawthorne).

1-10-CLE 25 (14:10) (No Huddle) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins.

2-10-CLE 25 (14:07) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 28 for 3 yards (76-A.Hicks). #2 Manziel in @ QB

3-7-CLE 28 (13:30) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass short left to 16-A.Hawkins to 50 for 22 yards (31-J.Byrd). PENALTY on CLE-73-J.Thomas, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 28 - No Play. #6 Hoyer back in at QB

3-17-CLE 18 (13:00) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short middle to 11-T.Benjamin.

4-17-CLE 18 (12:56) (Punt formation) 5-S.Lanning punts 39 yards to NO 43, Center-57-C.Yount, fair catch by 10-B.Cooks

[The Gipper]

When a team is so dumb they only let their 1st round draft pick in the game to hand the ball off twice. It's noteworthy because the Browns are benching the most exciting player on the team. BTW, nice drop there Agnew. Kudos to Brian Hoyer for making the most out of his opportunities, I have been impressed with his play thus far. But let's be honest, most people would agree they'd rather watch Manziel win than Brian Hoyer win. Unless you are a Cleveland homer, then you'd want the local boy to win, I get it.

We would rather watch Hoyer win than Manziel lose. Simple as that.

[TexasAg1969]

 

Ag, we know you're here not just for JF, so it's all good. And actually Johnny wears size 15 clodhoppers- pretty amazing for a guy that's a tad short of 6', not exactly little feet.

 

LOL -actually I knew that about him, but it was just much too fun to pass up the old saying. And I also believe it got Hoyer back on track. That's a case of a coach knowing how competitive his two guys are with one another for the betterment of the team. And I also agree that now everyone else has to spend extra time game planning for him as well as Hoyer. I think Pettine is proving to be the coach everyone here has been looking for well before I showed up as a new Browns fan.

[TexasAg1969]

I just re-watched in slow-mo the pass from JM to Agnew. He threw it as a touch pass to a FB, but Agnew actually caught it with both hands, brought it in and coughed it up on the hit by the DB. So not only was it catchable, it was caught and then dropped. Guess he needs to go to the Jimmy Graham school of "good hands people".

[The Gipper]

Why did this thread deteriorate into a JFF thread?

[TexasAg1969]

Why did this thread deteriorate into a JFF thread?

Hoyer had an excellent game-back on track!

[miktoxic]

Why did this thread deteriorate into a JFF thread?

stan had a plan.

[ATENEARS]

Generalization? Nah... dishonesty... that which does not support your point must be omitted or altered.

When you edit a simple copy & paste, it is for a reason...

When you chose to pretend that I'm altering stats, it is for a reason...

Left in the information that you omitted, and I reinserted, adds context that IMO undermines your position...

 

Here's the straight copy/ paste of Q3's first series... Manziel's good series...

1-10-CLE 15 (14:56) 28-T.West right tackle to CLE 24 for 9 yards (93-J.Galette; 57-D.Hawthorne). Pitch out

2-1-CLE 24 (14:32) (No Huddle) 28-T.West left guard to CLE 25 for 1 yard (57-D.Hawthorne).

1-10-CLE 25 (14:10) (No Huddle) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins.

2-10-CLE 25 (14:07) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 28 for 3 yards (76-A.Hicks). #2 Manziel in @ QB

3-7-CLE 28 (13:30) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass short left to 16-A.Hawkins to 50 for 22 yards (31-J.Byrd). PENALTY on CLE-73-J.Thomas, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 28 - No Play. #6 Hoyer back in at QB

3-17-CLE 18 (13:00) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short middle to 11-T.Benjamin.

4-17-CLE 18 (12:56) (Punt formation) 5-S.Lanning punts 39 yards to NO 43, Center-57-C.Yount, fair catch by 10-B.Cooks

What no color highlights?

 

Geez, at least I used color and simplified things so no one was flat out board from all the technical mumbo-jumbo.

 

If you think I was dishonest and altered stats to fit my agenda on this one, stick around the bullshit gets better the more relevant the topic.

 

You lost me at "Here's the straight copy ..." I think I actually yawned.

[ATENEARS]

stan had a plan.

 

It's called a conspiracy. Don't make me bring Lumbergh back.

[Tour2ma]

I just re-watched in slow-mo the pass from JM to Agnew. He threw it as a touch pass to a FB, but Agnew actually caught it with both hands, brought it in and coughed it up on the hit by the DB. So not only was it catchable, it was caught and then dropped. Guess he needs to go to the Jimmy Graham school of "good hands people".

Your "touch pass" is my "guided, not cut loose", your "brought" is my "bringing", but we are seeing pretty much the same thing.

Had JM cut it loose, as he can cross-body, it might have been put away before the hit came.

Or bounced off Agnew's face mask...

 

...I don't know what video you're looking at but JM only threw one pass against the Saints on sunday and it's easy to find the video. Just watched it, don't see any wobble to it but maybe the angle isn't right.

When I first saw it live, I thought it clearly wobbled. Not so much when I re-watched it. But in the replay from the end zone angle it does show up just prior to the ball getting to Agnew. It almost takes a slo-mo look since the ball is not in that shot for most of its travel.

 

But regardless wobble was not a catch/ no catch factor... velocity, or rather lack thereof, may have been.

[TexasAg1969]

Tour- at the risk of being accused on continuing the thread derailment, my question would be how well does Agnew catch passes that are zipped to him? Reason I ask is that I know from 2 years of watching him that JM definitely held back on that throw. So was he guiding because of who was catching or was he doing it because he was throwing his first pass and was trying to be sure of it?

[Manzier]

Agnew was the same guy JFF didn't want to throw to during one of the preseason games. He passed on a wide open shot in the flat and carried it instead.

 

Could it be JFF doesnt trust Agnew?? OR couldit be that JFF doesn't see him soon enough? OR could it be that JFF is always trying for the big play and not mature enough(yet) to take the sure yards?

 

My take on the Agnew drop was that he caught it, had it in his hands and then took a hard hit on the hands before he got the ball wrapped up.

Some credit goes to the defender for a good hit. Some receivers would have held that ball, but a lot would have dropped it too.