Kiper confirms the Browns' linebacker needs

[Mr. T]

It doesn’t take a professional draft analyst to know what the Browns need most in the draft, but all the same, fans might get a warm feeling knowing Mel Kiper is thinking the way most of them are thinking.

 

“Front and center, the Browns need speed at linebacker and they need pass rushers,” Kiper said Wednesday during a two-hour conference call hosted by ESPN.

 

Kiper has been one of the most recognized draft analysts in the country for three decades. He has published an annual Draft Report for more than 30 years. He is at center stage of the ESPN two-day telecast of the draft every year. He was on a nationwide phone hook-up Wednesday as a preview to the NFL Scouting Combine next week in Indianapolis.

 

The Browns pick fifth in the first round of the draft on April 25. Kiper said they can trade down into the late teens or early 20s of the first round, acquire more picks, and still get their pass rushing linebacker, possibly USC linebacker Clay Matthews, the son of Clay Matthews who was a first-round pick by the Browns from USC in 1978.

 

Matthews played for the Browns for 16 years and still holds the franchise record with 76.5 sacks.

 

Kiper has the Browns taking Wake Forrest outside linebacker Aaron Curry with the fifth pick, but when he was asked to name the top pass rushing linebacker in the draft he did not name Curry.

 

 

WOW!!!Sounds like Curry takes a hit as being a speed rusher, they can include that he has a tough time taking on TE's and shedding blocks from them.

 

The smart money says trade down and get Matthews then.

[JewDago]

no one is looking at curry as a pass rusher. we're looking at him to play inside linebacker in the 3-4, which isn't a pass rushing position. quite the opposite, it's a tackling, field patrolling, coverage position. the ILB's job is to shut down the run and play the pass well, primarily by controlling the middle of the field and covering tight ends, while only occasionally rushing the passer.

 

if you're not interested in taking a game-changing player or having stars on your team, go after matthews. but if you want someone who will be a great player for years to come, take curry.

 

learn what we're looking for in players before you cream your pants just because someone's dad played for the browns twenty years ago.

[Gips]

JD is right about curry he will most likely be an impact player from day 1 in the nfl and solidify the ilb position however if he is gone matthews or rey mauluga are both trade down options..

While rey mauluga also seems to fill the bill as well i wouldnt discount clay matthews simply because of the rob ryan factor we all tend to think mangini vanilla on defense but in fact i wouldnt be suprized if ryan gets a big say in what defense is put on the field and how aggressive it will be..im assuming ryan didnt instantaniously accept the browns job without having some heavy input on things..

 

Matthews and Mauluga could and should both be successful in the nfl as well as curry respectively..

[Spectrum]

When people talk about Curry, and the next name I hear out of their mouth is patrick Willis, I get excited. Just a bit. That's about all I need to hear to be sold on the kid. I watched Willis play in college a lot, but have only had a chance to see Curry on TV like twice.

 

Personally, I'd much much rather get that ILB than another pass rusher if I had to choose between the two. And I'm far from sold on Maualuga. He could be a big time NFL player based on size, speed, and aggression, but most of what I've seen tells me he's going to be more of a run-stopper, all or nothing guy. If he gets to the guy, he's going down, but will overrun the play, working himself out of position too often, and this can be a huge problem on passing downs. And a lot of the "experts" I have read or heard seem to bring this up. Doesn't make me feel good about him. I also wonder just how much his production and hype was helped by the surrounding players on that defense, as well as just being a big LB for Pete Carroll and USC, who the media always seem to give a bit more love to because SC and Carroll only get the best players. Not that the media is very wrong about this, but they get a little extra love and attention being out in LA and with Carrolls success.

 

It's been said a lot, but our pick should have a lot of trade value come draft day, given that Crabtree, and big name pass rushers could/should be there. And maybe some team freaks out and wants to come up and grab Sanchez. Who knows. Good spot to be drafting in for sure. I know, I'm just rooting for Boldin NOT to end up in Philly...

 

And by the way, for reasons I can't really pinpoint, I like Kiper A LOT more than McShay. Don't know what the general consensus is.

[Mr. T]

It seams to me Curry & Orakpo are over hyped. I dont feel they will be the Impact players that everyone says they'll be.

[Solon16]

Wow...some revelation....browns need Linebackers...that Kiper is a freakin genius

[Jason J]

When people talk about Curry, and the next name I hear out of their mouth is patrick Willis, I get excited. Just a bit. That's about all I need to hear to be sold on the kid. I watched Willis play in college a lot, but have only had a chance to see Curry on TV like twice.

 

Personally, I'd much much rather get that ILB than another pass rusher if I had to choose between the two. And I'm far from sold on Maualuga. He could be a big time NFL player based on size, speed, and aggression, but most of what I've seen tells me he's going to be more of a run-stopper, all or nothing guy. If he gets to the guy, he's going down, but will overrun the play, working himself out of position too often, and this can be a huge problem on passing downs. And a lot of the "experts" I have read or heard seem to bring this up. Doesn't make me feel good about him. I also wonder just how much his production and hype was helped by the surrounding players on that defense, as well as just being a big LB for Pete Carroll and USC, who the media always seem to give a bit more love to because SC and Carroll only get the best players. Not that the media is very wrong about this, but they get a little extra love and attention being out in LA and with Carrolls success.

 

It's been said a lot, but our pick should have a lot of trade value come draft day, given that Crabtree, and big name pass rushers could/should be there. And maybe some team freaks out and wants to come up and grab Sanchez. Who knows. Good spot to be drafting in for sure. I know, I'm just rooting for Boldin NOT to end up in Philly...

 

And by the way, for reasons I can't really pinpoint, I like Kiper A LOT more than McShay. Don't know what the general consensus is.

 

A serious question that no one seems to be asking here is the most obvious... Is a strong side inside linebacker in a 3-4 worth a top draft pick? And the answer is, unfortunately, no. If the Browns use a glamour pick on an inside linebacker, it'd be because they felt they needed to replace D'Qwell Jackson, not complement him.

 

And at this point, the Browns aren't likely to be looking to replace D'Qwell Jackson. He's arguably the second best player on the defense. Which means, you've got a handful of other need areas.

 

It's sad, but, SILB's just don't merit top pick status or money. Pass Rushers get the top 10 picks. They get the big bonuses. No GM in their right mind guarantees $40 million to a guy then tells him to run his head into a brick wall 75 times every Sunday. It just doesn't happen. It's the same reason no one drafts a fullback in the first round.

 

Look at the Patriots for an example. The first first round pick they started at SILB was Jerod Mayo last season... but why? Tedy Bruschi will soon be heading off into the sunset, allowing Mayo to take over that center piece in the defense. Mayo will move over, then it will be the next parade of Eric Alexander's, Roman Phifer's, and Ted Johnson's only younger versions, playing down hill and hitting the first enemy colored hat he sees.

 

The Steelers have been employing the doggedly effective, yet unspectacular Larry Foote for the better part of 6 seasons now... that would be the 128th overall pick in the 2002 NFL draft... if you're looking linebacker, he was picked just after Ben Taylor, and just ahead of Rocky Boiman.

 

It's just not a glamorous position. And it takes a certain psyche to play it. It's the reason Bobby Carpenter's been a bust in Dallas. It's not that he's not loaded with linebacker-type skills... he's got plenty. But, he's ill equipped to be a SILB in that system. He doesn't have the heart for the grunt work.

 

The Browns should be looking to abandon the search for a run-stopper (at least for the first few hours on draft day). Grab their checkbook and go get themselves an Eric Barton... or Larry Foote, who may become available, or the aforementioned Eric Alexander. That way they can get a guy who knows how to play the position, doesn't have any delusions about being "the man", and can shore up the run defense.

 

Then go get another pass rusher, or corner, or safety, or something you really need... probably a pass rusher.

 

Right or wrong, I don't see the Browns passing on Everette Brown if they have the opportunity to draft him. I'd love to see them wiggle back a few spots, and still get him. But, there are also those who like the idea of moving back into the 20's and getting a Clay Matthews Jr, or a Larry English (he'll probably be gone by the time you get to 20 though.)

 

Any of those is a workable solution. English and Brown give the Browns the opportunity to move Kam Wimbley to the strong side... Matthews probably necessitates keeping him on the weak side. And you still have Alex Hall you can use as a specialty rusher. He seems to be most effective with his hand down... but could also learn a lot over a season or two.

 

-jj

 

 

[Riffer X]

Just out of curiosity, what if the Browns swap this guy with Jackson? Why are we relegated to using him at strong.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

i started as a maulaluga guy, then became a curry guy but am now a brown guy. the more and more i think about you need a top pass rusher. look at the last 3 superbowl champs. james harrison for the steelers, strahan, tuck and umenyora for the giants and dwight freeney for the colts. all of those guys are great pass rushers and a 3-4 defense is centered around them. we need a pass rusher badly. everyone else on defense benefits from a pass rush. look at what mario williams is doing in houston. that defense is slowly getting better and it all revolves around him. when you play zone, you need to have pressure on the quarterback. we saw this year what playing zone with no pass rush can do for you. brown is the best option for us. hopefully though he does a lot better than the last de named brown we had.

[Solon16]

JJ.....:It's sad, but, SILB's just don't merit top pick status or money. Pass Rushers get the top 10 picks. They get the big bonuses. No GM in their right mind guarantees $40 million to a guy then tells him to run his head into a brick wall 75 times every Sunday. It just doesn't happen. It's the same reason no one drafts a fullback in the first round.

 

Comparing a MLB to Fullback is quite the stretch my friend!!!!

[DawgTracker]

Jason, thanks for the analysis, it makes sense to me. I guess if you take a middle linebacker in that position he shouldn't have any weaknesses on his analysis. The Browns have screwed themselves over too many times drafting for need instead of picking BPA imho.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

JJ...so basically you are saying that because it is not a GLAMOUR position...it can't be the cornerstone of your defense?

 

To me, that makes no sense. Just because a guy is picked at #5 doesn't mean he has to have the limelight. It just means he had the skillset to fill a position on your team.

 

As I have said on numerous occasions, a defense needs to be built front to back, inside out. That means the 5 key positions on this team are the NT, 2 DE's, and 2 ILB's. Out of that we have 2 guys that we KNOW can play, DQ and Rogers.

 

Williams is a maybe...but he is out of his TRUE position and was hurt all year...so we have no idea. The best we have at the other DE is an aging R.Smith...also coming off injury. Beyond that we got NOTHING at DE.

 

At ILB, we have Bell...but what exactly do we have there? Davis is gone for sure. Williams has shown he can't be relied on to make reads.

 

So, not only do we not have DEPTH at these positions, we don't even have a legit PROVEN starter at 3 out of the 5.

 

At OLB, we have Wimbley who has had his play dictated by the lack of DE's...and Hall....who may just need this offseason to make the change from college DE to OLB.

 

So, why are we going to go and waste an early round pick on a position that is dependent on the middle 5 when we already have 2 YOUNG guys with a decent probability of having the tools....to go and pick ANOTHER CONVERSION PROJECT.

 

I prefer to solidify the DE or SILB position with our first pick...and since the ONLY player that fits those positions that is likely worth a top 5 pick is Curry...then I go Curry.

 

If we can trade down a little...it opens us up to a lot of other players (Maualuga/Tyson Jackson/Matthews/English), but at #5 I can't see spending a pick on a guy that has to LEARN the position when we have 2 guys already doing that and NOBODY to allow them to do their job at the DE/SILB positions.

[JewDago]

i started writing this before WPB posted: a lot of what i say echoes what he said.

 

while i agree that picking an ILB in the top 5 isn't something a team usually does, teams aren't normally as historically bad as the browns have been against the run since their return. we also need to improve our pass rush, but that's something i'll get to in a minute.

 

we desperately need to get better against the run, and our biggest glaring hole on D is at LB. we one spectacular starter at NT (rogers), one guy who was injured last year but played through it and was less effective for it (williams), and then question marks on the line. can robaire come back from his injury? will rubin pan out as a backup? we need more D linemen because a better line would make our LBs' jobs easier, but there's no one at the top of the draft who fits our need.

 

however, there is one LB at the top of the draft who doesn't need as much help as the LBs we already have, and that's curry. d'qwell is a fine player, but he's not an inside presence. he's a good tackler and is good in coverage, but he's out of the play if a blocker gets his hands on him. curry can take on a blocker, get past him and stop the RB.

 

is picking someone fifth overall and then asking him to be a grunt somewhat oxymoronic? yes. however, curry will get his chance to be more than a grunt in coverage situations, where having him and d'qwell (in a nickle package) will make it near impossible to hit short routes and routes over the middle. curry's also shown his willingness to work and do whatever the team needs him to do for both him and the team to have success. he came into wake forest as a skinny kid but put on a ton of muscle, played special teams and evolved into the great player he is. his ego, if we draft him, won't be a problem. he understands that he's part of a team and that he needs to do his job for everyone to be successful.

 

where i will say that jason j's argument makes sense is a question of availability. there will be far more players available in free agency who are able to play as the SILB than there are who can get to the QB. teams don't just let pass rushers go. suggs has already said that he wants to work something out with the ravens, and julius peppers will likely command far too much money for us to go after him. in the draft, we basically have our pick of the litter and can select the guy who we think will give us the best chance of getting to the QB on every passing play.

 

last, i'm going to say one more time that everette brown is unimpressive, beats up on weak competition, then gets handled by guys with talent. orakpo produced more consistently, but if we go after a pass rusher, we need to convince denver to trade up to five to take raji, get their twelfth pick and some middle pick(s) as incentive, and draft larry english, who i think has the most pass rushing potential in the draft.

[ballpeen]

I agree Jason....ILB at this point isn't a very wise mobe.

 

If we select Curry...it will be to play outside....if we don't get him, we will look to Brown or Jenkins.

 

I am assuming no trade downs.

[Guest Aloysius]

Not sure I buy the whole SILB/WILB distinction with regards to physical traits and draft value. If you watch film of the Jets defense last year, Eric Barton started at SILB but played WILB almost half of the time. And before James Farrior signed a contract extension, the Steelers planned to move WILB Larry Foote to SILB, opening up the WILB spot for Lawrence Timmons.

 

And I think we're starting to see an evolution in the 3-4 in which the big, blocker-absorbing SILB's are being replaced by guys who are both strong and athletic. Look at how few Levon Kirkland types are starting around the league. Instead, you have guys like Mayo starting at SILB. You've got guys like Bradie James putting up ridiculous stats (116 TT, 8 sacks, 6 TFL's) from the SILB spot, and you can read reports that Rob Ryan desperately wants to bring in Bart Scott to complete the Jets' defense. They'd have a 2nd rounder in Harris and an expensive FA playing inside in their 3-4: not all that dissimilar from having Jackson & Curry manning the middle

 

And as more and more teams use rocked up receivers as TE's, you're going to see coverage ability become even more of an emphasis when focusing on LB play. While a guy like Eric Barton came off the field on passing downs, you'd likely see Curry stay on the field over D'Qwell Jackson; that gives Curry way more value than what a Levon Kirkland or Eric Alexander will give you.

[Mr. T]

In the 3-4 a Lb needs to be capable of many tasks do to the fact that each team they play there will be a different game plan geared towards the opponets offense and sometimes even DQwell Jackson or even Wimbley will have a different responsibilities through out the game.what we need is not just a LB but an every down LB.

 

We should remember teams such as Cinn. and Pitt. when they were struggling against our Defense they would move to the Hurry up Offense to limit our ability to change players out. And it worked well for both teams.

 

Best athelete who is a quik learner should be priority. Also in the evaluation process I would hope that the scouts will consider what types of offenses these guys played against and how well they did.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

no one is looking at curry as a pass rusher. we're looking at him to play inside linebacker in the 3-4, which isn't a pass rushing position. quite the opposite, it's a tackling, field patrolling, coverage position. the ILB's job is to shut down the run and play the pass well, primarily by controlling the middle of the field and covering tight ends, while only occasionally rushing the passer.

 

if you're not interested in taking a game-changing player or having stars on your team, go after matthews. but if you want someone who will be a great player for years to come, take curry.

 

learn what we're looking for in players before you cream your pants just because someone's dad played for the browns twenty years ago.

 

Absolutely right about Curry. People have to understand that he will be a ILB in the 3-4. He will take Andra Davis's position, he is not a pass rusher. IMO, you have to solidify the middle with a solid ILB before you look at pass rushers.

 

Mangini talked about "musts" and "needs". ILB is a must, OLB is a need. You at least have some OLBs that can line up and play, you don't have a SILB on the roster except Leon Williams and he isn't an option.

[Geech]

I think Kiper went wacko from sniffing too many Aqua Net fumes 20 years ago...

 

-Al

[Jason J]

A couple of you guys have made some solid points here. Let me kind of walk through them here.

 

First (Solon): I don't think comparing the SILB in Mangini's 3-4 to a fullback is much of a stretch at all... in fact, that's kinda the job. You lead block for the Mike.

 

Second (WPB): What I was saying about "glamour" was simply that a top 10 pick is a glamour pick. Anyone you draft at that position is going to be vastly over-qualified for the SILB position. He's going to have skills that go to waste. It's same reason you have nurses and physicians assistants in a hospital... not everyone needs to be a doctor.

 

Third (WPB): Everyone in the front 7 who transitions from college to an NFL 3-4 defense has to learn a new position... unless you went to Virginia, or a small handful of other schools. Curry would be making an outside-in transition, which is not much easier (if at all) than moving from a down DE to a hybrid OLB.

 

Fourth: (JD): I love that bit about allowing Curry to work the strong side and take on more responsibility over time. That works in theory. I don't know enough about his ego to know how he'd feel about doing the heavy lifting for another linebacker. I've only said that you're going to have a guy that's a bit more finely tuned than the position requires... you could likely fill that position comparably with a free agent veteran, and still draft a high octane pass rusher.

 

Fifth (JD): Whether or not Everette Brown got fat on weak competition, he's still got the best body of work of any pass rusher in this draft. Weak competition? Larry English played in the MAC for crying out loud. English is going to be fine, but he'll have a steeper learning curve than Brown.

 

-jj

[Sony Reed]

A serious question that no one seems to be asking here is the most obvious... Is a strong side inside linebacker in a 3-4 worth a top draft pick? And the answer is, unfortunately, no. If the Browns use a glamour pick on an inside linebacker, it'd be because they felt they needed to replace D'Qwell Jackson, not complement him.

 

And at this point, the Browns aren't likely to be looking to replace D'Qwell Jackson. He's arguably the second best player on the defense. Which means, you've got a handful of other need areas.

 

It's sad, but, SILB's just don't merit top pick status or money. Pass Rushers get the top 10 picks. They get the big bonuses. No GM in their right mind guarantees $40 million to a guy then tells him to run his head into a brick wall 75 times every Sunday. It just doesn't happen. It's the same reason no one drafts a fullback in the first round.

 

Look at the Patriots for an example. The first first round pick they started at SILB was Jerod Mayo last season... but why? Tedy Bruschi will soon be heading off into the sunset, allowing Mayo to take over that center piece in the defense. Mayo will move over, then it will be the next parade of Eric Alexander's, Roman Phifer's, and Ted Johnson's only younger versions, playing down hill and hitting the first enemy colored hat he sees.

 

The Steelers have been employing the doggedly effective, yet unspectacular Larry Foote for the better part of 6 seasons now... that would be the 128th overall pick in the 2002 NFL draft... if you're looking linebacker, he was picked just after Ben Taylor, and just ahead of Rocky Boiman.

 

It's just not a glamorous position. And it takes a certain psyche to play it. It's the reason Bobby Carpenter's been a bust in Dallas. It's not that he's not loaded with linebacker-type skills... he's got plenty. But, he's ill equipped to be a SILB in that system. He doesn't have the heart for the grunt work.

 

The Browns should be looking to abandon the search for a run-stopper (at least for the first few hours on draft day). Grab their checkbook and go get themselves an Eric Barton... or Larry Foote, who may become available, or the aforementioned Eric Alexander. That way they can get a guy who knows how to play the position, doesn't have any delusions about being "the man", and can shore up the run defense.

 

Then go get another pass rusher, or corner, or safety, or something you really need... probably a pass rusher.

 

Right or wrong, I don't see the Browns passing on Everette Brown if they have the opportunity to draft him. I'd love to see them wiggle back a few spots, and still get him. But, there are also those who like the idea of moving back into the 20's and getting a Clay Matthews Jr, or a Larry English (he'll probably be gone by the time you get to 20 though.)

 

Any of those is a workable solution. English and Brown give the Browns the opportunity to move Kam Wimbley to the strong side... Matthews probably necessitates keeping him on the weak side. And you still have Alex Hall you can use as a specialty rusher. He seems to be most effective with his hand down... but could also learn a lot over a season or two.

 

-jj

 

Great Post Jason, I have been saying this for quite a long time now that no inside linebacker is worth the money that you are going to have to pay to a #5 pick. People keep saying we need a inside LB to stop the run which we do but IMO we can find a free agent LB to stop the run for less money than you would be paying Curry and for the people who talk about his coverage ability most teams are taking LB's off the field or have coverage LB's in there nickle and dime packages.

 

The Packers a few years ago took A.J. Hawk at #5 and paid big dollars and that was as a 4-3 MLB and if they had to do it again I doubt the Packers would have made that selection, also look at Patrick Willis how much of a impact has he changed the 49ers defense? the 49ers once they put Willis on the field did not become this dominat defense against the run.

 

My other concerns against taking Curry is who has he played against? the ACC in football is not very strong, people use the excuse about Rey Rey looking better because of the talent around him well how about Curry looking better because of the lack of talent around him plus he was not facing any top offensive teams in the ACC add in the fact that Curry playing outside LB at Wake Forrest has only 8 sacks in his career there says he has to play inside due to lack of pass rushing ability required to play the outside.

 

This team needs pass rushers and a top cornerback as much as they need a run stopping linebacker and if I am selecting number 5 and going to pay #5 money I am going for the pass rusher or CB before a run stopping LB.

 

I would not be surprised to see us trade down and take a pass rusher or corner, remember Mangini selected Reevis a CB with his 1st pick 2 years ago and knows the importance of getting a shut down corner, I continue hearing people say we are fine with Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald at corner, I just don't see all the love people have in those 2 guys you can put some of the blame on scheme and lack of pass rush but both Wright and McDonald were torched often last season so how much does it matter if we stop the run a bit and still have a liability on the outside with 2 weak corners or we continue to get no pass rush, and until we get some type of pass rush whoever plays corner will get torched. if we are going to fix this defense we need to get in the draft and free agency 2 pass rushing LB's, a corner and a run stopping LB. have fans forgotten how slow we are at outside linebacker? and how long before we say Wimbley is a one horse pony and lets move on.

 

No 3-4 defense will work until you get 2 guys at the outside LB position that can rush the passer and on this roster today we don't have one guy you can say is our pass rusher.

[Jason J]

Not sure I buy the whole SILB/WILB distinction with regards to physical traits and draft value. If you watch film of the Jets defense last year, Eric Barton started at SILB but played WILB almost half of the time. And before James Farrior signed a contract extension, the Steelers planned to move WILB Larry Foote to SILB, opening up the WILB spot for Lawrence Timmons.

 

And I think we're starting to see an evolution in the 3-4 in which the big, blocker-absorbing SILB's are being replaced by guys who are both strong and athletic. Look at how few Levon Kirkland types are starting around the league. Instead, you have guys like Mayo starting at SILB. You've got guys like Bradie James putting up ridiculous stats (116 TT, 8 sacks, 6 TFL's) from the SILB spot, and you can read reports that Rob Ryan desperately wants to bring in Bart Scott to complete the Jets' defense. They'd have a 2nd rounder in Harris and an expensive FA playing inside in their 3-4: not all that dissimilar from having Jackson & Curry manning the middle

 

And as more and more teams use rocked up receivers as TE's, you're going to see coverage ability become even more of an emphasis when focusing on LB play. While a guy like Eric Barton came off the field on passing downs, you'd likely see Curry stay on the field over D'Qwell Jackson; that gives Curry way more value than what a Levon Kirkland or Eric Alexander will give you.

 

 

Actually, Barton played the WILB as a rule, but with the athleticism of Harris, they would roll instead of switch with motion and off sets. Effectively they played more of a right-left vs. strong-weak. Barton is not a true WILB. But there was no way Mangini was going to put a rookie in the pilot's chair of that defense. That position has too much riding on it.

 

The Steelers is a different defensive approach altogether. Foote is the predominant Ted, they just don't line it up that way. In fact, more often than not, they line it up backwards... Hell half of what LeBeau does is backwards... but who am I to criticize a guy with a pair of Super Bowl rings. The ludicrous combinations of twists and stunts that are thrown at the line of scrimmage have little to do with who lines up where. Larry's job is to crack heads in the phone booth, and Farrior cleans up.

 

I don't deny that there is a bit of a move away from the stereotypical strong and weak backers... but here's the problem in Cleveland... D'Qwell Jackson cannot be working a ted technique on your defense. Although he's bulked up a bit, he's still way too small. Size-wise, he's an inch short of being a prototypical strong safety. So while the defensive philosophy may be evolving league-wide, the Browns defense is still centered around a prototypical weak side linebacker. He's going to continue to need an enforcer to eat up guards and fullbacks.

 

I'm not saying that the Browns can't use a guy like Curry. He just doesn't fill a need. He may make them better, but you still need another inside linebacker if you're going to get the full use of his talents. You either need two linebackers in that mold, or a true strong and a true weak. And I'm not sure the Browns are in a position right now to make the full adjustment here.

 

-jj

[JewDago]

@ jason: you're completely right that english faced the weakest competition out of all the prospects in this draft, but that's why i qualified picking him with the dreaded term 'potential.' he'll have a ways to go learning how to play in the NFL, no doubt, but i've really liked what i've seen from him. it's more a personal preference and opinion than anything else.

 

if you want a more polished prospect, the debate, to me, is brown vs. orakpo, and if we're talking about bodies of work, orakpo's is, to me, more impressive than what brown has done.

 

here's orakpo's 2008:

 

vs FAU: three tackles, a TFL and three pressures

UTEP: five tackles, two sacks and three pressures

rice: five tackes, two sacks, two pressures, two PBD and a forced fumble

arkansas: four tackles, two sacks, three TFL, a pressure and a forced fumble

colorado: two tackles and five pressures

oklahoma (#1 at the time): seven tackles, two sacks, four TFL, two pressures and a forced fumble

missouri (#11 at the time): a tackle and three pressures, one of which forced an INT

oklahoma state (#7 at the time): six tackles, a sack, two TFL and two pressures

texas tech (#6 at the time): two tackles, a TFL and two pressures, injured knee, DNP 2nd half

baylor: DNP

kansas: played very little

texas A&M: five tackles, 1.5 sacks, three TFL, four pressures and a forced fumble

ohio state (#10 at the time): two tackles, three pressures and a sack

 

he's consistent, which is great to have in a pass rusher, and played well in every game. some of that you can attribute to the talent around him, but he still made the plays when he could even though teams knew he was someone they had to stop.

 

you're also right about filling the position with a free agent and then going after a pass rusher in the draft, though i think having curry is a long-term solution and would give us two great ILBs. i also don't think there's a pass rusher in the draft who's got equal value or will have a comparable impact to what curry can do for this defense.

 

one thing i'd like to know is if you have a favorite pass rusher/defensive player in this draft. i'm interested in collecting opinions.

[Sony Reed]

I agree. Stop the run FIRST. Then set Wimbley,Hall and whatever pass-rusher we get in the later rounds loose on them when they have to pass.

 

Can we stop with the Wimbley and Hall stuff, what has Wimbley done as a pass rusher the last 2 years, the guy as one move and the leage has figured him out you can start calling him a BUST

 

Alex Hall had like a 3 game stretch where he looked good and then not much the remainder of the year, and we are talking about a 7th round pick with lots to learn.

 

We have no proven pass rushers on this roster

 

[Jason J]

one thing i'd like to know is if you have a favorite pass rusher/defensive player in this draft. i'm interested in collecting opinions.

 

If i had a favorite defensive player in the draft, I'd say it's Malcolm Jenkins. He's got the best recognition skills of any prospect in the draft (probably the last couple). I actually think he projects better at safety... but he can go to work as a rookie CB, and you can get every dollar of a 6 year deal out of him.

 

As far as pass rushers go... I like Brown over Orakpo, but only by a hair... and only because Sergio Kindle decided to return to Texas, and Carlos Dunlap is only a sophomore.

 

-jj

[Guest Aloysius]

Actually, Barton played the WILB as a rule, but with the athleticism of Harris, they would roll instead of switch with motion and off sets. Effectively they played more of a right-left vs. strong-weak. Barton is not a true WILB. But there was no way Mangini was going to put a rookie in the pilot's chair of that defense. That position has too much riding on it.

 

The Steelers is a different defensive approach altogether. Foote is the predominant Ted, they just don't line it up that way. In fact, more often than not, they line it up backwards... Hell half of what LeBeau does is backwards... but who am I to criticize a guy with a pair of Super Bowl rings. The ludicrous combinations of twists and stunts that are thrown at the line of scrimmage have little to do with who lines up where. Larry's job is to crack heads in the phone booth, and Farrior cleans up.

 

I don't deny that there is a bit of a move away from the stereotypical strong and weak backers... but here's the problem in Cleveland... D'Qwell Jackson cannot be working a ted technique on your defense. Although he's bulked up a bit, he's still way too small. Size-wise, he's an inch short of being a prototypical strong safety. So while the defensive philosophy may be evolving league-wide, the Browns defense is still centered around a prototypical weak side linebacker. He's going to continue to need an enforcer to eat up guards and fullbacks.

 

I'm not saying that the Browns can't use a guy like Curry. He just doesn't fill a need. He may make them better, but you still need another inside linebacker if you're going to get the full use of his talents. You either need two linebackers in that mold, or a true strong and a true weak. And I'm not sure the Browns are in a position right now to make the full adjustment here.

 

-jj

Thanks for the response. No surprise - there's some great stuff here.

 

About Barton: I'm pretty sure he played more of a WILB role when David Bowens was subbing for Harris, but you're probably right about the Harris-Barton tandem. Still, I don't think he's a natural SILB, which is only an even bigger concern if we sign him. Using your lead blocker analogy, Harris is a big back who can make plays despite getting knocked around a little. DQ, by contrast, is adept at avoiding blockers, but Barton isn't going to crack heads & keep him clean. He may be a decent insurance option in case Curry's not available, but he's not good enough to justify passing on him.

 

And about the Steelers' D: if Foote's the lead blocker and Farrior's the cleaner-upper, who's going be the tough guy when Farrior & Timmons are the two inside guys next year? As you said, their system is different, but aren't they too going with a team of inside guys who are both playmaking types, like the Jets are said to be planning on doing with Scott & Harris?

[Mr. T]

Karlos Dansby, OLB UFA, Arizona Cardinals (Height: 6-4 Weight: 250 Age: 27) would solve a lot of problems and may come cheaper than Barton or a Suggs.

If we could make a move on Dansby that could open up the draft for us to get Jenkins from Ohio State.

 

Dansby is becoming a consistent linebacker in the NFL. In his last four full seasons, he has tackle totals of 89, 82, 99, and 119 this season. He has also tallied at least three sacks in each of his five seasons as a pro. His three interceptions last season tied a career high and he added two more this season. In ’08, he was an important part of a defense that helped the Cardinals advance in the playoffs. He isn’t in the same class as some of the linebackers on this list, but he may eventually be pretty close. Dansby will appeal to several teams because of his age, size, and potential.

 

[Geech]

I think we can get more sacks out of Wimbley and Hall if they do a better job of masking where the pressure is coming from or maybe moving them around before the snap. Better schemes would result in more sacks.

 

Something can be said for scheming. It may help the overall sack totals of the team, but I don't think it's wise to assume that Hall and Wimbley will be putting up double digit sack totals.

 

If we can get instant pass rushing from the draft, I say we take it. Wimbley has one move, the speed move (or as many fans like to call it...the shoulder dip). No rip technique, no swim move, and no bull rush. Going in to the 2006 Draft, I thought Wimbley was the better choice over Manny Lawson. Lawson is a pure speed guy, with nothing else in his repertoire, neither. Although fans around the league haven't heard Wimbley's name since after his rookie year, noone has heard of Lawson since the draft. It turns out that they are somewhat similar due to the fact that they only have one speed move and no power moves.

 

We need a pass rusher with more than just one move. The 2009 Draft is a great opportunity to get him. It would be nice to find someone who already weighs 255+, instead of forcing someone to bulk up from 240. Wimbley looks like he has the frame to add another 5 - 10 pounds, which might give him the ability to add a power move or two to his arsenal.

 

-Al