calfoxwc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 this time, it's Cuba, and all the lives ruined by the corrupt castro regime that took everything for the state. Obamao wants to resume normal relations. Apparently, Obamao would like to do the same thing here, if he thinks that's fine with him, what happened in Cuba. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150328/us--confiscated_by_castro-abridged-80eda098b8.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Canada and other countries have continued business relations inside of Cuba during the embargo. None of it was claimed by the Cuban government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Seems like a waste of time. This embargo has done VERY litttle to affect the Cuban situation. They were going to be poor and gov't controlled no matter what the USA did or continues to do. Unless we go in there and whipe out the regime that has been in power for well over 50 years, it is NOT going to change The USA and Isreal are the only 2 countries that continue to support this action. Most other countries would like to see this stuff end. http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politics/cuban-embargo-questions-answers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 it isn't all about the money. Liberals don't get "principle". Want to expand trade relations with boko haram? isil? Where DO you draw the line? and why? Natural resources, trade, I don't see overlooking evil. Sanctions didn't work because russia and other countries kept it afloat. But it is still the right thing to do. The UN has been worthless all these decades, why bother with the UN ? It has done little or nothing to prevent evil all around the world. Speaking of boko haram....and the worthless UN.... http://www.amazon.com/Shake-Hands-Devil-Failure-Humanity/dp/0786715103 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 So why do we do business with China? There gov't controlled and oppress their people BIG TIME. Human rights are very limited there, but if you want cheap products, that this country gobbles up by the TRILLIONS, then we overlook the bad stuff. Were's the "principles" then? Those principles our in some big corporations pockets, and then into some politicians donation fund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 So why do we do business with China? There gov't controlled and oppress their people BIG TIME. Human rights are very limited there, but if you want cheap products, that this country gobbles up by the TRILLIONS, then we overlook the bad stuff. Were's the "principles" then? Those principles our in some big corporations pockets, and then into some politicians donation fund China isn't as oppressed as you think. The communism there is a joke. Nothing like it was 30 years ago. They have a lot of freedom now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 China isn't as oppressed as you think. The communism there is a joke. Nothing like it was 30 years ago. They have a lot of freedom now. That is probably true, but the USA has had bigtime interests in China, way before the "NEW" China has been around. If Cuba had the resources and manufacturing capabilites of China, we would have NO embargo with Cuba IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Communist China is not our friend and I hate to see us as having built them up to be a manufacturing giant. Recently they just passed the United States as the world's largest economy. Today it seems like we have put ourselves in the position of borrowing money from the Chinese to buy the things they make. I don't see it as a good thing for us. Manufacturing produces wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 it isn't all about the money. Liberals don't get "principle". Want to expand trade relations with boko haram? isil? Where DO you draw the line? and why? Natural resources, trade, I don't see overlooking evil. Sanctions didn't work because russia and other countries kept it afloat. But it is still the right thing to do. The UN has been worthless all these decades, why bother with the UN ? It has done little or nothing to prevent evil all around the world. Speaking of boko haram....and the worthless UN.... http://www.amazon.com/Shake-Hands-Devil-Failure-Humanity/dp/0786715103 So while we have been openly trading with China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,..the list goes for decades on then you want to claim that our trade policies have been based on principles? Cuba is a communist state but are they any worse than China was until only a few years ago? Are they worse than Pakistan and Saudi Arabia who have been found to be financing terrorism? Our trade policies are based on advantage and have zero to do with principles regarding how a country treats their citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Communist China is not our friend and I hate to see us as having built them up to be a manufacturing giant. Recently they just passed the United States as the world's largest economy. Today it seems like we have put ourselves in the position of borrowing money from the Chinese to buy the things they make. I don't see it as a good thing for us. Manufacturing produces wealth. They are not our friend, but yet we have built their economy to the point it is bigger then ours. Something is wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 So while we have been openly trading with China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,..the list goes for decades on then you want to claim that our trade policies have been based on principles? Cuba is a communist state but are they any worse than China was until only a few years ago? Are they worse than Pakistan and Saudi Arabia who have been found to be financing terrorism? Our trade policies are based on advantage and have zero to do with principles regarding how a country treats their citizens. Money trumps principles EVERYTIME in politics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I am completely aware of that. I just think Cal is upset over opening trade with Cuba while ignoring the fact that the U.S. would be willing to trade with NAMBLA Island if they had a resource that we need. I wish we stuck to our principles. I despise the fact that we borrow from China, trade with the Saudis, etc. I wish Obama and others would let us maximize our ability to get natural resources and not have to rely on Middle Eastern shitholes who use our money to finance terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 The thing about opening trade with Cuba, is they don't really offer much for us. Cuban cigars, rum and baseball players are about the only thing they produce. If they had oil reserves or gold,silver,or coal reserves, we would be their best friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 China isn't as oppressed as you think. The communism there is a joke. Nothing like it was 30 years ago. They have a lot of freedom now.. Perhaps that IS because the US has maintained a trade relationship with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 China - thought they would embrace being part of the world, but that never happened, they just used it to the point of increasing their return. Guess it beats militarily starting wars, but china is still china, and russia is still the soviet union, but a lot smaller. Bribes don't work. Being nice doesn't work. It just condones the vicious behavior in a bassackwards fashion, but at least not bribing and not being nice doesn't contribute to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 We do business with India, Pakistan, Israel, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc. and all have some form of state sponsored political, social or economic baggage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Embargoes rarely hurt the people in charge, and rarely cause the people actually hurt by economic sanctions to rise up and overthrow the government. If that was true, then Iran, Cuba, and Russia would be seeking new leadership now. Plus, it's a bit ironic for someone who claims to love the Constitution and the Founding Fathers to want to have constant wars and interfere with others attempts to govern themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 So while we have been openly trading with China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,..the list goes for decades on then you want to claim that our trade policies have been based on principles? Cuba is a communist state but are they any worse than China was until only a few years ago? Log ****************************** No, where do you get that? I'm simply saying that I don't agree that you do wonderful business with a vicious, dangerous enemy. Nixon went to China - China has changed, but it is still China - a communist country that is also a threat. Only far richer, and able to invest in far more military. Same with Russia, we started believing that Russia turned the corner, and started trade, cooperation etc... but russia is still russia, only richer? and able to pour a lot of money into their military, and is still a threat, after they have started the soviet model again. trading with bad countries is not a good thing. Just because both sides gain in the short term, bad countries get in a far better economic standing to be far more seriously a lot of trouble in the future. We've kept Cuba down because they were evil. Now, we go and open trade etc etc etc... guess what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 So our trade policies changed their behavior? Really? And has the embargo gotten the results we wanted in Iran, or Cuba? Did the change regimes? Does it change the assertion that Embargos only hurt the little people? Perhaps we can take a look at George Washingtons farewell speech Observe good faith and justice towards all Nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all. Hmm. I don't see anything about using sanctions if we don't get our way. Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens,) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake; since history and experience prove, that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican Government. But that jealousy, to be useful, must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation, and excessive dislike of another, cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots, who may resist the intrigues of the favorite, are liable to become suspected and odious; while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests. - George Washington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 An additional thought - and it is not a defense of Obama in general but in specific - why are we making a tempest out of this teapot? Could it be that by trying to work for peace and not starting another ground war in Asia that Emporer Obama is doing what's best? If you look past the rhetoric, how long has it been since Iran has been a player outside of it's immediate region? Why isn't diplomacy, or diplomacy backed by M.A.D. a better choice than spending more lives and treasure to influence something half the world away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Try being "diplomatic" with a rabid coyote out to get you, And, nobody is talking about sending more of our soldiers to confront Iran. Mutually Assured Destruction? With Iran, who wants Israel and America wiped off the face of the earth? And wants war to expedite the hurryup of the Islamic coming of their islamic state? Very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Styles Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 this time, it's Cuba, and all the lives ruined by the corrupt castro regime that took everything for the state. Obamao wants to resume normal relations. Apparently, Obamao would like to do the same thing here, if he thinks that's fine with him, what happened in Cuba. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150328/us--confiscated_by_castro-abridged-80eda098b8.html So concerned about Cuba yet not so concerned about diplomatic and economic relations with CONFIRMED HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATORS like China, Russia, Saudi Arabia etc ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 So concerned about Cuba yet not so concerned about diplomatic and economic relations with CONFIRMED HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATORS like China, Russia, Saudi Arabia etc ? that's like Apple and Walmart being against Indiana for new "religious protection laws" but doing a land office business in China - which actively persecutes gays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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