Justin Gilbert thoughts.....

[Mudfly]

Let's think about this for a second, average for our #5 CB? He was the no. 8 pick. Is that relative? An average player who is a #5 CB? I expect him to be our #2 and be average. I expect him to have as many plays as the average #2 CB and not be terrible. He failed that last year. I know alot of people blindly follow our players, but Gilbert had some real issues. He also has real talent. People seem to like PFF, I only found his half season score of nearly -5, anyone know what his final score was? Another article placed him 88 out of 102 qualified corners. That's not even close to average.

 

Thats all good, but the average score for #5 thing is referring to Desir.....not Gilbert.....

 

and if people would just read instead saying this is based on PFF or Im calling him great, all Im saying is he played better as the season wore on and he improved and he shows tremendous promise....he's not a bust.....and he didnt "fail"(he got better, which is what rookies are suppose to do).....

 

so all the "he sucked and he failed" stuff comes from the first couple games....And if it doesnt....then what games did he suck in?.....somebody please tell me and Ill go watch again.....

 

In re to your question on final score?.....GIlbert had a -7 score for games one & three......he then earned a + score in 8 out of 12 games(and 2 evens), giving him a +5 for the balance of his play.....so thats a measurable "improvement".....

 

Game scoring:...."RED" games are really bad and Gilbert had 3...for Comparison, Skrine had 6...Haden had 3....Revis had 3....and Fuller had 8....

 

So...in summary....he's improving...not a bust....has what it takes....flashed many times...all good stuff to look forward to....

 

Now....CB...you seem almost civil today....why no "liar" accusations?

[miktoxic]

I hear ya, the guy that said i wanted Watkins (no where in my thread) wants me dead because I misread lol. Yet he did it also, I never said i wanted Watkins. Just chiming in on Gilbert lol.

 

i know your past history about watkins and your disdain for passing on him for gilbert.

 

so there's that.

 

nobody wants you dead for misreading...............

[Mudfly]

 

i know your past history about watkins and your disdain for passing on him for gilbert.

 

so there's that.

 

Ha...no doubt.....thats a big part of what prompted this whole thread....CBbackers insistence that we lost that trade, shoulda took Watkins and Gilbert was horrible.....

 

And then him calling me a blatant liar like 5 times, while he just made up his own facts......hahaha.....

 

In fact....Here's his exact quote that originally got me going on this whole Gilbert thing.....

 

"Gilbert was beyond bad, so bad that some of the media thought they would cut him. I never said he couldn't improve. I said he was absolutely horrible last year, and he was. He was so bad, he didn't even play until injuries forced him in last year in the 2nd half of the season. He was benched by a guy who wasn't even drafted in k'waun Williams. Yes that is beyond bad"....

 

So....there's that......

[BitchTits]

Thats all good, but the average score for #5 thing is referring to Desir.....not Gilbert.....

 

and if people would just read instead saying this is based on PFF or Im calling him great, all Im saying is he played better as the season wore on and he improved and he shows tremendous promise....he's not a bust.....and he didnt "fail"(he got better, which is what rookies are suppose to do).....

 

so all the "he sucked and he failed" stuff comes from the first couple games....And if it doesnt....then what games did he suck in?.....somebody please tell me and Ill go watch again.....

 

In re to your question on final score?.....GIlbert had a -7 score for games one & three......he then earned a + score in 8 out of 12 games(and 2 evens), giving him a +5 for the balance of his play.....so thats a measurable "improvement".....

 

Game scoring:...."RED" games are really bad and Gilbert had 3...for Comparison, Skrine had 6...Haden had 3....Revis had 3....and Fuller had 8....

 

So...in summary....he's improving...not a bust....has what it takes....flashed many times...all good stuff to look forward to....

 

Now....CB...you seem almost civil today....why no "liar" accusations?

I only call people liars when they are. I was asking about pff, and so forth because I didn't know. You have your opinion on Gilbert as do I. The only thing i want to clarify is I never called him a bust. I believe it takes 2-3 years before you can evaluate any players. Yes I think he sucked, I think some of the articles I read saying he was worse then 3/4 of the league says something. If you choose not to believe it, I am not going to harp on you. I also choose to be not as optimistic as you, I saw last years games, and saw him benched, and sitting behind players he should have been ahead of. I heard fellow players questioning his work ethic, and his attitude. All of that adds up to my opinion of him having a very bad year. I accept you, and others do not agree.

 

I am always civil till someone insults me. I just disagree with your assesment. Hopefully you will be right. Contrary to popular belief, I want the Browns to do well. I just choose to make opinions off what I believe I have seen. Many others tend to cling to "hopes" or "potential". That's fine, I am not saying that's bad, I just choose to go off what I have seen is all. This is supposed to be a place to give opposing views, but far to often the moderators, and user base tend to just flame people for disagreeing with them. I have no factual proof he will suck, just like you have none that he will be great. All we have is our opinions, and I for one have no issue saying I am wrong, if I am wrong. I freely said i mis-read an earlier portion of this thread. 80% won't even say that like the guy who flamed me about Watkins. He mis-read, but won't admit it. I don't care though, I hope Gilbert is a beast, but we will have to see.

[BitchTits]

 

i know your past history about watkins and your disdain for passing on him for gilbert.

 

so there's that.

 

nobody wants you dead for misreading...............

That was from a different thread. I was on topic for that thread like it or not. Just like i was for this topic. As usualy you blew a gasket for no reason. I stated my opinion, and have been nothing but nice to other posters, then here you come flying in talking about something that has NOTHING to do with this topic. I admitted i mis-read, it happens. There were 2 pages of posts, I was skimming. Doesn't mean you have the right to lay into me about something I am not even talking about.

[BitchTits]

Ha...no doubt.....thats a big part of what prompted this whole thread....CBbackers insistence that we lost that trade, shoulda took Watkins and Gilbert was horrible.....

 

And then him calling me a blatant liar like 5 times, while he just made up his own facts......hahaha.....

 

In fact....Here's his exact quote that originally got me going on this whole Gilbert thing.....

 

"Gilbert was beyond bad, so bad that some of the media thought they would cut him. I never said he couldn't improve. I said he was absolutely horrible last year, and he was. He was so bad, he didn't even play until injuries forced him in last year in the 2nd half of the season. He was benched by a guy who wasn't even drafted in k'waun Williams. Yes that is beyond bad"....

 

So....there's that......

I don't get it, I talk about Gilbert and you guys bitch, I talk about a trade and you guys bitch? Do all you guys do is bitch? I stand by what i said. Just because you watched tape doesn't mean anything. You are not a coach, gm, or anything other then someone who thinks he knows. I have as many articles, and stats to back me, as you do you. Pff, Espn, NFl, all had him rated as one of the worst in the league. Don't be mad at me, that's what they had. I simply put an opinion, but because it wans't kind to a Browns player OMG out of the woodwork come the bitchers. So I guess when i say that they will finish 6-10 I will get flamed again right? I mean it's what every expert predicts. So clearly I deserve to be flamed again right?

[Mudfly]

Well, I'll say this then let it go.....

 

I only call people liars when they are. ....Then you are still calling me a liar.....for voicing my opinion and some stats

 

I was asking about pff, and so forth because I didn't know....yet you called me out on it as a liar, when you admit "you didnt know".. You have your opinion on Gilbert as do I. The only thing i want to clarify is I never called him a bust. I believe it takes 2-3 years before you can evaluate any players. Yes I think he sucked, I think some of the articles I read saying he was worse then 3/4 of the league says something. If you choose not to believe it, I am not going to harp on you. I also choose to be not as optimistic as you, I saw last years games, and saw him benched, and sitting behind players he should have been ahead of. I heard fellow players questioning his work ethic, and his attitude. All of that adds up to my opinion of him having a very bad year. I accept you, and others do not agree.

 

I am always civil till someone insults me....so, when I disagreed with you, why all the insults my way?...I certainly didnt insult you....and your very first sentence to me way "you are a blatant liar".....THAT my friend is an insult and definitely NOT a civil approach to disagreeing or a way to enter a discussion...I just disagree with your assesment. Which is fine if you have an assessment, but if your gonna say it's based upon reading some articles, then I think it's someone elses assessment(not yours).....and, at least when I offer an assessment or opinion, I also offer REASONS and sources. Defnitely wouldnt call someone a liar without HARD evidence otherwise....but thats just me, I guess...

 

I don't get it, I talk about Gilbert and you guys bitch, I talk about a trade and you guys bitch? Do all you guys do is bitch? I stand by what i said. Just because you watched tape doesn't mean anything. You are not a coach, gm, or anything other then someone who thinks he knows. I have as many articles, and stats to back me, as you do you. Pff, Espn, NFl, all had him rated as one of the worst in the league. Don't be mad at me, that's what they had...so it must be gospel then, eh?... I simply put an opinion, but because it wans't kind to a Browns player OMG out of the woodwork come the bitchers. So I guess when i say that they will finish 6-10 I will get flamed again right? I mean it's what every expert predicts. So clearly I deserve to be flamed again right?

 

Hopefully you will be right. Contrary to popular belief, I want the Browns to do well. I just choose to make opinions off what I believe I have seen. Many others tend to cling to "hopes" or "potential". That's fine, I am not saying that's bad, I just choose to go off what I have seen is all. And I have asked for "what you've seen" or a game I can go watch several times, but haven't gotten a reply yet...so, what game??? This is supposed to be a place to give opposing views, but far to often the moderators, and user base tend to just flame people for disagreeing with them.See comments above...who really flamed who? I have no factual proof he will suck(I know), just like you have none that he will be great. All we have is our opinions, and I for one have no issue saying I am wrong, if I am wrong. I freely said i mis-read an earlier portion of this thread. 80% won't even say that like the guy who flamed me about Watkins. He mis-read, but won't admit it. I don't care though, I hope Gilbert is a beast, but we will have to see.

Again dude....I disagreed with you....(nicely).....and you went on a rant.....plain and simple....

In the end....If YOU have an opinion, then offer it.....if your opinion is whatever ESPN says, then we already got that...

And If I or anyone else offers an opinion....then maybe calling them a "liar" isnt the way to go....especially if your only counter agrument is you "read it on espn".....

[miktoxic]

That was from a different thread. I was on topic for that thread like it or not. Just like i was for this topic. As usualy you blew a gasket for no reason. I stated my opinion, and have been nothing but nice to other posters, then here you come flying in talking about something that has NOTHING to do with this topic. I admitted i mis-read, it happens. There were 2 pages of posts, I was skimming. Doesn't mean you have the right to lay into me about something I am not even talking about.

 

how did i flame you? buy saying you had a watkins loving ass? big deal. i thought you had thicker skin than that.

 

the thing is people with half a brain (like me) can still remember things. so as soon as i read the gilbert negativity coming from you i had to chime in with your watkins love. you posted many times in many threads how much not picking watkins burns your ass. that is your legacy now.

 

if somehow we had drafted both watkins and gilbert last year i believe you'd have no problems with gilbert.

[BitchTits]

 

how did i flame you? buy saying you had a watkins loving ass? big deal. i thought you had thicker skin than that.

 

the thing is people with half a brain (like me) can still remember things. so as soon as i read the gilbert negativity coming from you i had to chime in with your watkins love. you posted many times in many threads how much not picking watkins burns your ass. that is your legacy now.

 

if somehow we had drafted both watkins and gilbert last year i believe you'd have no problems with gilbert.

We couldn't have landed both, and on top of that, it isn't true. I would be pissed at Gilbert still. If Watkins sucked, I would be pissed as well. I am content waiting to see who does better Watkins or Gilbert, I have no idea who will. But i don't insult you because you think it's Gilbert. And why should i have a thicker skin? We are all supposed to be Browns fans. If the moderators did their job, this would be a much more peaceful place to come and talk/debate Browns topics.

[gftChris]

Children, please...daddy has a headache.

[Momszer]

CCBacker "you ignorant slut" all you had to do was quote Emily Litella (aka Gilda Radner) and say "Nevermind" but nooooooo.

 

So stfu enough already.

 

It's SNL day. :-)

[miktoxic]

well my bad then. there's another fan/poster here who uses the cb name that is much more of a asshole than you.

 

i really don't try and NOT get along with other people here. there's just something that sticks in my craw about the man-love for watkins and the fact that we didn't pick him.........which means he plays for another team. as soon as that player puts on that jersey the love affair should be over.

[miktoxic]

btw, there's only 3 days left before the draft so there isn't much else to do here but bust balls.

 

the mods might be mopping up blood come wednesday.

[Mudfly]

ok.....back on topic....which I believe was DESIR, before we went down the blah blah blah road.....

 

Im seeing coach Pettines eyes light up when he discusses him and he's also one of 2(mingos the other) that Pettine says he's expecting big things from this year....

 

So....perhaps Desir will challenge Gipson for the starters role...or at least create some serious comp there....which gives the Browns leverage next year, when it's contract time(again)(assuming they dont sign Gipson long term)

 

And since we have the power of the trans tag next year, I think they'll wait to commit////

[BitchTits]

cbbacker, on 27 Apr 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

Then you are still calling me a liar.....for voicing my opinion and some stats

 

If I called you a liar it would be because you claimed an opinion as fact. I don't even remember the stats you posted, nor is it worth my time to go back and look at them.

 

I was asking about pff, and so forth because I didn't know....yet you called me out on it as a liar, when you admit "you didnt know"..

 

Where in my post did i call you out , or as a liar pertaning to pff? I even asked what his stuff was because I didn't know. Not sure where you are going with this. My guess is it's from a post not on this topic.

 

I am always civil till someone insults me....so, when I disagreed with you, why all the insults my way?...I certainly didnt insult you....and your very first sentence to me way "you are a blatant liar".....THAT my friend is an insult and definitely NOT a civil approach to disagreeing or a way to enter a discussion...I just disagree with your assesment. Which is fine if you have an assessment, but if your gonna say it's based upon reading some articles, then I think it's someone elses assessment(not yours).....and, at least when I offer an assessment or opinion, I also offer REASONS and sources. Defnitely wouldnt call someone a liar without HARD evidence otherwise....but thats just me, I guess...

 

And I didn't offer an assesment of my opinion? Pretty sure I did. Did I not also use pff half season rankings? Yep, Didn't I also say from some articles of what they said about Gilbert? I guess I could link the article, yet you don't do that either. The only thing you said is what you watched, I saw no sources from anything else you put. I saw a stat about snaps played. That is rather meaningless, as it doesn't say how good or bad he is. At team with bad corners means he would play alot right? but that doesn't mean he is good right? I did put out the same stuff as you, nor did I flame you for yours.

 

cbbacker, on 27 Apr 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

I don't get it, I talk about Gilbert and you guys bitch, I talk about a trade and you guys bitch? Do all you guys do is bitch? I stand by what i said. Just because you watched tape doesn't mean anything. You are not a coach, gm, or anything other then someone who thinks he knows. I have as many articles, and stats to back me, as you do you. Pff, Espn, NFl, all had him rated as one of the worst in the league. Don't be mad at me, that's what theyhad...so it must be gospel then, eh?... I simply put an opinion, but because it wans't kind to a Browns player OMG out of the woodwork come the bitchers. So I guess when i say that they will finish 6-10 I will get flamed again right? I mean it's what every expert predicts. So clearly I deserve to be flamed again right?

 

And I have asked for "what you've seen" or a game I can go watch several times, but haven't gotten a reply yet...so, what game

I told you I didn't know what game already, this is the second time. I told you how K'waun Williams was higher on the depth chart, and you said he wasn't. Yes he was. Go look at your snap count for the 2nd half of the season, and lets see how much he played. You claim the stats show he was vastly improved over the second half of the year? Show them. You question me on my stats, yet do not support your own conclusions. I will never take a non-football guys opinion as fact. Watch the games, your not a corner, your not a coach, or a gm. You have no idea what you are looking for. You may think you do, but there is a reason you're behind the computer, and not on the sidelines.

Again dude....I disagreed with you....(nicely).....and you went on a rant.....plain and simple....

In the end....If YOU have an opinion, then offer it.....if your opinion is whatever ESPN says, then we already got that...

So let me get this straight, If I agree with a piece from ESPN then I shouldn't post it? They why should you post anything at all? Your opinions are not based solely on what you "watch" you even said that. You used stats to attempt to prove your belief. That is no different then what I did. So maybe you should stop posting, and trust the many more who agree with me that are "expert" on how he played then right? I mean that's just using your logic here.

And If I or anyone else offers an opinion....then maybe calling them a "liar" isnt the way to go....especially if your only counter agrument is you "read it on espn".....

When you claim opinion as fact, that makes you a liar. I am sorry but that is the truth. When you declare an opioin as defintive statement, that alone isn't right just by the wording. I preface most of what i say with "I believe" or "I think" where so many others just declare. When you post an opinion as fact, that is a lie without actual proof. And snap counts are not proof. Sorry.

[BitchTits]

I will drop it now, but I had to reply to what you said.

[Mudfly]

CCBacker "you ignorant slut" all you had to do was quote Emily Litella (aka Gilda Radner) and say "Nevermind" but nooooooo.

 

So stfu enough already.

 

It's SNL day. :-)

[Mudfly]

whatever...

 

I said Watkins was #13 at PFF and you said that was a blatant lie(your exact words)...yet its the truth

 

I said Buffalo gave us 3 picks to draft Watkins and you said I was wrong there too...yet its the truth

 

I said Gilbert plays outside CB behind Skrine and you said that was a lie and that he backed up K Williams...even though Williams never once played outside and Gilbert never once played the slot (again...It's Gilbert behind Skrine....and Skrine behind Williams is how the Browns play it)(again, not opinion...but fact that is EASILY looked up and confirmed)

 

Then I you said PFF and NFL.com are bullshit websites, yet you cite ESPN for your argument as if it's any more valid(most of their writers refer to PFF and NFL to get their stuff, btw)...

 

Then, after saying PFF isnt valid and, therefore my stat on Watkins was a LIE, you cite Gilberts 1/2 season PFF score for your argument(isnt that hypocrisy)....and the 1/2 season score you cited, is really only a 2 game score....so well rate him on 2 games

 

and, dude, never claimed to be an expert, a gm or a coach...just someone who's deeply invested in studying the game and talking about it... and I've been doing it for 30 years now.....so, I dont claim my "opinions" are better and I never call other peoples opinions stupid or dumb...never....but I do know a thing or 2 about the game and, usually, only talk on the things I feel I know real well....and DB's are in my roundhouse.....(OL, not so much)....

 

Ill make you a deal.....since you dont like my opinions, just stay off my shit and, in turn, Ill avoid yours like the plague....kapeesh?

[BitchTits]

I am fine with that, but one clarification, I said they gave us 3 picks, I even explained this after you said something. They gave us #9, 2015 #1, and 2015 #4. I get that, I said that EARLIER in my posts that you missed. I said they only gave us 2 picks though. We swapped the 3rd. When you swap, you do not "get" another pick. We already HAD a pick. We added 3, and lost 1, how many is that? 3-1=2. I even explained this to you, and you ignored it. We only got 2 picks from them, we already had a third.

 

Then I you said PFF and NFL.com are bullshit websites, yet you cite ESPN for your argument as if it's any more valid(most of their writers refer to PFF and NFL to get their stuff, btw)..."

 

This part you will have to quote me on, I might have said something like joe blow website, but I don't remember saying NFL and espn and such are bad sites. I might have said pff isn't fully recognized, but I know I didn't say the others. Which is WHY i said today about pff that I didn't know. Get it now? I told you I didn't know pff. You see how you get on me, but I actually did say these things. Just like the picks, I acknowledged we received 3 picks, for our 1. I just see it differently that we only got 2 picks. We would have made our 2 picks last year had we not traded, that doesn't mean we get to count #9 when we would have already made the #4 pick.

 

"and, dude, never claimed to be an expert, a gm or a coach...just someone who's deeply invested in studying the game and talking about it... and I've been doing it for 30 years now.....so, I dont claim my "opinions" are better and I never call other peoples opinions stupid or dumb...never....but I do know a thing or 2 about the game and, usually, only talk on the things I feel I know real well....and DB's are in my roundhouse.....(OL, not so much)"

 

When you start saying you watched the film, and that he .... you are saying you know what you are talking about. Otherwise you are just watching the game. Many people "think" watching the game is the same as film study. It's not. I have been watching games for over 30 years also. I also "think" i know some stuff about football, (more oline/dline though), but you don't see me on here saying how so-and-so is good, bad, and his tape says this ... You are. At best that is only your opinion. Just because you watched the games doesn't mean you know the first thing about cornerbacks. You very well may be a genius and know it down pat, but odds are you don't. So when you start talking about what you saw in games, I take it with a grain of salt. Just like you do when i say what i saw in games. What makes what you saw more important then me? Therefore I don't take what people "see" in tapes or games as law. Odds are like me they don't know shit, they just think they do.

 

Ok here is my attempt to show you something about Gilbert. I told you when i said it that i meant Williams played ahead of Gilbert, you clearly say that was wrong and here is the quote.

 

I said Gilbert plays outside CB behind Skrine and you said that was a lie and that he backed up K Williams...even though Williams never once played outside and Gilbert never once played the slot (again...It's Gilbert behind Skrine....and Skrine behind Williams is how the Browns play it)(again, not opinion...but fact that is EASILY looked up and confirmed)

 

All i said was Williams played ahead, and you disagree, here is an article with the snap counts you used up to week 10. You claimed Gilbert only played bad 3 weeks, but up to and including week 10, you can clearly see his reduced role. This trend continued the rest of the year, except for when Haden missed a couple games for his hip. here is the link http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_browns_snap_counts.html

Here is a video straight from our dc on Justin, and williams:

 

So should we believe what you saw, or what our dc sees?

 

Now this isnt' from espn, pff, or nfl, so my guess is instead of seeing your mistake, you will just discount this article. You are the one who said these stats are easily provable, well here ya go. Now lets see if you finally admit you might have been mistaken. If Williams played more snap counts, what does that say about who was higher on the depth chart? You don't continually play your #5 guy when you have your #3 available.

 

Now maybe we can stop the arguing. I don't give a shit about Watkins, does that mean i think we won the trade? not yet. I am simply posting my opion on Gilbert. If that makes me a bad Browns fan then so be it.

 

If the video post isn't allowed I apologize, I am not familliar with the rules of videos.

[Mudfly]

well, were making slow progress here.....

I am fine with that, but one clarification, I said they gave us 3 picks, I even explained this after you said something. They gave us #9, 2015 #1, and 2015 #4. I get that, I said that EARLIER in my posts that you missed. I said they only gave us 2 picks though. We swapped the 3rd. When you swap, you do not "get" another pick. We already HAD a pick. We added 3, and lost 1, how many is that? 3-1=2. I even explained this to you, and you ignored it. We only got 2 picks from them, we already had a third.

Here's the thing....you're counting Sammy AND the pick(which are the same) ...In the beginning, you said we only had Gilbert and #19 and I simply corrected that by saying we also got #4 this year, which makes 3.....then you went on a rant about how we only got 2 picks, because we gave one back, yada yada...when in reality, its what I said originally, that Buffalo gave 3 picks and got Sammy Watkins(or a pick, your choice)...but they still g=paid 3 picks for it..

 

and we ended up with 3 Buffalo picks....one which we spent last year and 2 that were still gonna spend....and AGAIN....I was simply trying to add that we had #4 too...which obviously twisted you the wrong way.....

 

You gave me an analogy about trading 2 quarters...but to me that isnt the same because quarters are of identical value and the picks we traded werent...see?.....

 

Try this analogy instead......We have $1 and Buffalo gives us $3 for it(now our "net" is 2, which is what your saying...right?)(see?...I get it)...but, if Buffalo spends the three dollars on a candy bar....then they paid 3 dollars for a candy bar(which is what Im saying)....

 

Then I you said PFF and NFL.com are bullshit websites, yet you cite ESPN for your argument as if it's any more valid(most of their writers refer to PFF and NFL to get their stuff, btw)..."

This part you will have to quote me on, I might have said something like joe blow website, but I don't remember saying NFL and espn and such are bad sites.

 

OK....Happy to quote you....here's what I said...

 

""""PFF has Watkins as the 13TH rated rookie receiver this year..."""".....

 

and here's your reply....

"""Sorry bud, most of what you posted is a blatant lie. It's opinion on where you think he finished as the rookie wr... There isn't any site out there rating Sammy low like you said. I guess there might be a Joe Blow.draft.com that says he was bad. Nobody of merit agrees with that statement.

 

So, there's that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^(and see, you did call me a liar for citing a stat, not opinion.....see it?)

 

I might have said pff isn't fully recognized, but I know I didn't say the others. Which is WHY i said today about pff that I didn't know. Get it now? I told you I didn't know pff. You see how you get on me, but I actually did say these things. Just like the picks, I acknowledged we received 3 picks, for our 1. I just see it differently that we only got 2 picks. We would have made our 2 picks last year had we not traded, that doesn't mean we get to count #9 when we would have already made the #4 pick.

Again....my whole point was that we still had #4 this year....THATS ALL I WANTED TO ADD......twas you who wanted to debate how many picks we got and started with the we only got 2 picks thing.....

 

"and, dude, never claimed to be an expert, a gm or a coach...just someone who's deeply invested in studying the game and talking about it... and I've been doing it for 30 years now.....so, I dont claim my "opinions" are better and I never call other peoples opinions stupid or dumb...never....but I do know a thing or 2 about the game and, usually, only talk on the things I feel I know real well....and DB's are in my roundhouse.....(OL, not so much)"

 

When you start saying you watched the film.. you are saying you know what you are talking about. NO, Im saying I watched the film and specifically focused on Gilbert....and I watched it over and over again.....here's the thing....you cant even see Gilbert play in a normal game or TV view, unless there is a play to him. The ONLY way to watch DB's is using coaches film that shows all 22....So, someone who watches a player specifically....and has the all 22 tape to do it, MAY have a little more insight than someone whos only watched the original game tape(as aired on TV) and seen only the few plays that went his way...

 

Otherwise you are just watching the game(not with coaches tape, your not). Many people "think" watching the game is the same as film study. It's not. I have been watching games for over 30 years also. I also "think" i know some stuff about football, (more oline/dline though), but you don't see me on here saying how so-and-so is good, bad, and his tape says this(no, but I see you here saying people SUCK based upon ESPN articles) ... You are. At best that is only your opinion(correct....it's my opinion....and apparently, even though you say we should all be able to post them freely and without getting slammed, mine somehow dont fit that mold for you).

 

Just because you watched the games doesn't mean you know the first thing about cornerbacks(never said it did). You very well may be a genius and know it down pat, but odds are you don't. So when you start talking about what you saw in games, I take it with a grain of salt. Just like you do when i say what i saw in games. What makes what you saw more important then me? Wow...when did I say I was more important?...or what I saw was more important?....I actually ASKED you to show me what you saw and you couldnt answer and said you dont remember....while Ive given the games Ive watched and what tapes Ive watched and recommended people go look to form their own opinions(did you?) cause Im not forcing an opinion...Im offering one and giving a way to go see for yourself...read the thread man...Therefore I don't take what people "see" in tapes or games as law. Odds are like me they don't know shit, they just think they do.(nice dig.....cant help it, can ya?)

 

Ok here is my attempt to show you something about Gilbert. I told you when i said it that i meant Williams played ahead of Gilbert, you clearly say that was wrong and here is the quote.

I said Gilbert plays outside CB behind Skrine and you said that was a lie and that he backed up K Williams...even though Williams never once played outside and Gilbert never once played the slot (again...It's Gilbert behind Skrine....and Skrine behind Williams is how the Browns play it)(again, not opinion...but fact that is EASILY looked up and confirmed)

 

All i said was Williams played ahead, and you disagree, here is an article with the snap counts you used up to week 10. You claimed Gilbert only played bad 3 weeks, but up to and including week 10, you can clearly see his reduced role. This trend continued the rest of the year, except for when Haden missed a couple games for his hip.

First...you completely ignore that Ive pointed out(3 times now) that Kwan plays the slot and Gilbert plays outside. Over and over I say it...and over and over you ignore it...

 

You also said Skrine and Haden were injured and THAT was the reason that Gilbert played...yet Skrine never missed a game(fact) and Haden only missed one and Desir played that game.....(fact)

 

And, you keep giving me "partial" stats...like Gilberts first 1/2 PFF score...or snap counts from week 10. MY WHOLE POST is about how he iproved over the course of the season....(not about the first 3 or 10 games)....it' s a full season review......and, based upon "snap counts"(since you brought it up).....Gilbert #3 - Skrine #2 - Haden #1

 

 

Now this isnt' from espn, pff, or nfl, so my guess is instead of seeing your mistake, you will just discount this article.(I trust my own eyes more than any opinion piece....and when I read or hear something, I actually check it out and form my own opinions) You are the one who said these stats are easily provable, well here ya go. Now lets see if you finally admit you might have been mistaken.(thats rich, coming from someone who hasn't owned up o one falsehood yet)t If Williams played more snap counts, what does that say about who was higher on the depth chart? But he didnt, did he? Gilbert played more snaps than Kwaun....but, Im sure you wont let that fact effect your opinion. You don't continually play your #5 guy when you have your #3 available. Thats right...you play the best ones MOST....and Gilbert was 3rd.....

 

I don't give a shit about Watkins.....Me either....THATS why I (and so many others) wish you'd guys would stop bringing it up everytime someone mentions WR, Gilbert or trades.......

 

 

 

Well....it was a nice thread for a day........

[BitchTits]

Here's the thing....you're counting Sammy AND the pick(which are the same) ...In the beginning, you said we only had Gilbert and #19 and I simply corrected that by saying we also got #4 this year, which makes 3.....then you went on a rant about how we only got 2 picks, because we gave one back, yada yada...when in reality, its what I said originally, that Buffalo gave 3 picks and got Sammy Watkins(or a pick, your choice)...but they still g=paid 3 picks for it..

 

And I corrected myself in that thread, but you miss read it. Not really my fault now is it? The anology was still stands whether it's two or 3. I even responded to that saying I was talking only the 1's. Again something you missed. Again is that my fault? Nope. If you payed attention you would have seen this stuff and not keep bringing it up.

 

""""PFF has Watkins as the 13TH rated rookie receiver this year...""""..

 

you need to link this story. That's how you prove it.

Bleacher report #20 overall, #4 rookie wr (which i said) http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2227720-ranking-the-top-50-rookies-of-the-2014-nfl-season/page/51

Nfl.com #3 rookie wr - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000434229/article/odell-beckham-mike-evans-head-special-rookie-receiver-class

I would find more but I hate sifting through the fantasy stuff as that has nothing to do with real football. But here are 2 that come from more reputable sources, and they disagree with you. Once you post the link to the story that says he is the 13 rookie wr I will apologize. But i checked there site fairly well, and found nothing like that. So you can stop bringing this up as well, I have proven it, until you find more sources.

 

For the third time I explained what i saw to you. It's not my fault you are not following.

 

First...you completely ignore that Ive pointed out(3 times now) that Kwan plays the slot and Gilbert plays outside. Over and over I say it...and over and over you ignore it...

 

See again you are stating an opinion as fact. This is NOT true. If you don't know how a depth chart works, then i feel sorry for you. Gilbert did play in the slot as well. He also played when Haden was injured, but you keep ignoring that. Sorry but you are wrong. I even posted the article showing that he played LESS than Williams, I even posted a video of the DC saying how he like Williams better. That is why he played over Gilbert. Keep ignoring this all you want, but you are wrong. Plain and simple. I posted sources backing me, either you do the same or just stop already.

 

You also said Skrine and Haden were injured and THAT was the reason that Gilbert played...yet Skrine never missed a game(fact) and Haden only missed one and Desir played that game.....(fact)

LEARN TO READ I didn't say Skrine was hurt. I said THREE times it was Haden, here is my quote since you cannot read: This trend continued the rest of the year, except for when Haden missed a couple games for his hip.

See how easy it is to not pay attention? At least I am man enough to admit it when I do it. i don't start lying about what someone said.

And, you keep giving me "partial" stats...like Gilberts first 1/2 PFF score...or snap counts from week 10. MY WHOLE POST is about how he iproved over the course of the season....(not about the first 3 or 10 games)....it' s a full season review......and, based upon "snap counts"(since you brought it up).....Gilbert #3 - Skrine #2 - Haden #1

You question my stats, that i source, but you have yet to source anything, and claim I am wrong. I will end this now. Stats for you.

Williams-368

Gilbert - 381

Barely a difference. Oh and by the way

Week 1 Gilbert 87% of defensive snaps

Week 2 64% of defensive snaps.

So how many of those 381 did he have in the first 2 weeks? 80? 90? So he had 25% of his yearly count done in what 2 weeks? So yet again you are wrong. They finished in that order, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Of course Williams took longer to get into the game. He was our #5 cb behind desir, and gilbert, and skrine and haden. I would hope that after earning that many plays week 1 and 2, he would have more. If we toss the first 2 weeks, Williams CRUSHES him in plays. And here's the link backing me up. http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/player-defensive-snap-count-stats/2014/?query=justin+gilbert

 

 

How many more ways can i debunk what you say? I even post the links to the places that show you are wrong. Williams clearly was ahead, The Browns DC agrees with me, not you, the stats agree with me, and not you. Opinion pieces agree again with me, not you. The ONLY thing you say is what you "saw" which is worthless.

 

You sit here and act like I am carrying on, yet you get proven wrong, and are not man enough to just admit it. The stuff you whine about, you didn't read properly (not my fault), the stuff you "see" is meaning less, and the stats you post come with no sources. For all I know you are looking at fantasy rankings for your 13 wr ranking. I just listed 2, you can verify that they show he was top 4. Put in the work or stop wasting our time.

 

Lets see what kind of character you have. Either you will just argue to argue, because you know you are wrong, and are mad, or you will just admit your mistake, and we can move on, or you will find other stats, and reports from reputable sources that back you up.

 

My guess is you will just argue to argue.

[Mudfly]

well....Im stepping down.....feel like Im talking to a rock....you miss every single point....every one

[miktoxic]

shades of (dare i say).........stockton?

 

yeah i'll stop before i say his name.

[BitchTits]

well....Im stepping down.....feel like Im talking to a rock....you miss every single point....every one

You have yet to back up any points. You are stopping because you cannot refute the proof I put. I don't blame you though. But don't sit there and pretend you are stopping for any other reason. You cannot even link the #13 story. Atleast i tried to back up what I said.

 

I give ya a bit of credit, while you didn't choose to argue, didn't choose to be a man and admit your mistake, or find stats to back you.

 

You chose option 4, unlisted option: just pretend I am right and back down in the hopes this ends. Good one!!

[miktoxic]

You have yet to back up any points. You are stopping because you cannot refute the proof I put. I don't blame you though. But don't sit there and pretend you are stopping for any other reason. You cannot even link the #13 story. Atleast i tried to back up what I said.

 

I give ya a bit of credit, while you didn't choose to argue, didn't choose to be a man and admit your mistake, or find stats to back you.

 

You chose option 4, unlisted option: just pretend I am right and back down in the hopes this ends. Good one!!

 

wow. some people just don't know when to stop.

 

i take my semi apology back.

 

you ARE a dick.

[BitchTits]

 

wow. some people just don't know when to stop.

 

i take my semi apology back.

 

you ARE a dick.

I am when someone gets shown something, but still chooses to ignore. You pointed out that i was a tard and didn't get the #5 corner comment. Did i sit here and pretend that I didn't say that, or that I was still right? He wanted me to reply, go back and look, he challenged me on the wr #13 comment, he challenged me with the what i see stuff. He challenged me to find something that showed what i was saying was true.

 

So I am a dick because I did what he asked? He chose to not respond once I backed up my thoughts. He could have been like me earlier and just admit it. If that means I am a dick, then so be it. I would rather be a dick because I proved myself, than a dick just to be a dick like many others on these forums.

[Tour2ma]

What was the question?

 

I guess the big difference I see......say between him and JFF.....is all he has to do is focus more, cause everything else is there. Jff, on the other hand, still has physical limitations and such to overcome, along with the focus & maturity issues......

Just a feeling, but I had the impression that Gilbert was one of a handful of players who got caught up in some Johnny worship and followed his lead when it came to dedication.

 

If JM has in fact gotten his act together, then it won't hurt a lick if they continue to follow his lead this year. However, given JM's off-season fall, I would not be surprised if they have moved on to other role models.

 

Mud - what was Desir's PFF score?

Mud's gonna need a PayPal account...

[Mudfly]

What was the question?

 

Just a feeling, but I had the impression that Gilbert was one of a handful of players who got caught up in some Johnny worship and followed his lead when it came to dedication.

 

Mud's gonna need a PayPal account...

Agreed....based on everything(and mostly what the coaches said)...I got the sense he was sitting for practice and disciplinary reasons....not necessarily his play in games. And he was benched "after" his best game cause coach said he slacked all week in practice..same kind of tough love that West got

 

ha....only wish PFF allowed you to link.....but since its a pay sight, no can do......

 

Not sure why I even bother to pay, since I just lie and make shit up anyway....when will I learn.....

[miktoxic]

[BaconHound]

Hopefully Gilbert will make huge strides this offseason and becomes a very good corner.