D Bone Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 In my opinion, if our QB finishes 18th or better in the league QB ratings, we will have a great chance to win the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 This is a RB driven league To be successful you have to first and foremost control the line of scrimmage which I think the FO has tried their best to address. You also have to score points and again this season with a career back-up and no WR threat the Browns will have to be creative and I don't think they will pull it off. Again defenses will stack the box and press our either undersized or old and slow WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 "This is a RB driven league" What league have you been watching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambridgeho Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 This is a RB driven league To be successful you have to first and foremost control the line of scrimmage which I think the FO has tried their best to address. You also have to score points and again this season with a career back-up and no WR threat the Browns will have to be creative and I don't think they will pull it off. Again defenses will stack the box and press our either undersized or old and slow WRs. Hawkins will destroy teams this year. I will also bet we put Duke in the slot. Play action and screens, will be our bread and butter this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 no WR threat. Lol wut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I posted this before. Here are our WR rankings from 2014... Not bad... Receiving stats: Drops %: 3.2 (tied 2nd); Yards per catch: 13.4 (1st); YAC per reception: 5.99(6th); Fumbles: 0 (1st) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Taylor Gabriel......you'd think nobody even knows this guy is on our team.....Last year ranked #4 for rookie WR's, behind only Beckham, Evans and Landry.... Last year was one of the highest touted WR classes ever......and he was #4 rated rookie(out of about 40+).....yet no one seems to think he did much?.....why isnt he getting more props?.....just kinda ho hum?..... Gabe = #11 in receptions.............yet wasn't even a starter #9 in yards.......................with so many fewer targets than the big names #2 in YAC @ 7.6..............Watkins= 5.2....Evans= 2.4......Beckham= 5.3 #3 in YPC @ 16.7............Watkins=15.1..Evans=15.5....Beckham=14.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Nobody should underestimate the Browns this next season. Was Sipe a superstar qb? Nope. But they were a terrific football TEAM of guys who loved the game, and had a good solid locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Taylor Gabriel......you'd think nobody even knows this guy is on our team.....Last year ranked #4 for rookie WR's, behind only Beckham, Evans and Landry.... Last year was one of the highest touted WR classes ever......and he was #4 rated rookie(out of about 40+).....yet no one seems to think he did much?.....why isnt he getting more props?.....just kinda ho hum?..... Gabe = #11 in receptions.............yet wasn't even a starter #9 in yards.......................with so many fewer targets than the big names #2 in YAC @ 7.6..............Watkins= 5.2....Evans= 2.4......Beckham= 5.3 #3 in YPC @ 16.7............Watkins=15.1..Evans=15.5....Beckham=14.3 Only 1 TD... I think that's the number that stands out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Only 1 TD... I think that's the number that stands out... Yep....thats the one that sticks out.....figured someone would point it out.....though, I will defend that with the fact that he was rarely used as a red zone receiver....(and, at 5-8", probably not gonna be anytime soon)...... In the end, #4 overall is #4 overall, which represents not just yards...or total catches...or number of TD's......but the whole package.... Hoping to see him break a few more long ones this year....as last year, he got free several times and Hoyer just couldnt get him the ball..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Yep... too small and raw to separate in the compacted field and did not have a QB that could capitalize on his speed... A combo that is bound to suppress the TD total. "This is a RB driven league" What league have you been watching? I'm going to go with sarcasm... especially with the ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I posted this before. Here are our WR rankings from 2014... Not bad... Receiving stats: Drops %: 3.2 (tied 2nd); Yards per catch: 13.4 (1st); YAC per reception: 5.99(6th); Fumbles: 0 (1st) How about Receptions, Yards and TDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 If you have a good oline and can run the football, the WRs do not have to be studs. They need to do their jobs, meaning running good routes, not taking plays off, blocking, and most importantly, catching the ball when it is thrown to them. A little YAC doesn't hurt either. Last year, the Browns rotated guys in and out quite a bit keeping them fresh too. We had things functioning just fine until Gordon came back playing half ass backyard football and the shit hit the fan.This corps is probably the best we have had since the return depth wise. Great slot guys in Hawk and little Gabriel, good size and enough speed with Bowe and Hartline and some developmental guys starting with Mayle. If Benji is your sixth WR on the roster, you have some pretty good depth. I will take good, disciplined WRs any day and every day over some choads like Little, Morgan and Edwards etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Id rather have 3 receivers with 700 yds each......than 1 with 1500 and 2 others with 300 ea...... A balanced/deeper team will always take you farther, than an unbalanced team with a few superstars...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 This FO and the TEAM believes in Josh Gordon, even if some of you do not. I know that they've seen him abstain from weed for seasons, abstain from alcohol the whole season last year only to be suspended an entire year for a technicality. It's bullshit that they are riding his balls so hard. He's a good kid, he's very talented and he's going to be a Cleveland Brown for a long time. I believe in Gordon. #1- Josh Gordon #2- Dwayne Bowe/Brian Hartline #3- Andrew Hawkins #4- Taylor Gabriel/Travis Benjamin There really isn't room for another receiver right now. So what Farmer says makes sense. I would have loved to add DGB to this group which I think would have put them over the top but it's whatever, I really like JG, Hawk, Gabe and Benji. Hawk and Gabe can really move. I love the shifty small WRs. I had us taking Corey Grant in a lot of Mocks just because he's so fast and small(RB), but Farmer did one better by getting Duke Johnson- I love this little pitbull at RB. He's going to be exciting, he reminds me of Jerome Harrison. You forgot about the guy we took in the 4th round...Mayles? Where does he fit in. (as I noted elsewhere on this receiver thing....the Steelers best WR for years was a third round converted QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Id rather have 3 receivers with 700 yds each......than 1 with 1500 and 2 others with 300 ea...... A balanced/deeper team will always take you farther, than an unbalanced team with a few superstars...... I agree Mud, the only issue with the current Browns is there is no threat. Doesn't have to be a name brand but a 6'3 215lb with 4.4 speed would really help. I like Mayle's size but 4.67 isn't enough speed. Jalen Strong was available at a reasonable position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I would only say that I think we got what we need and I have lots of confidence in our current group...(plus, Im another one that just doesn't believe WR's are that critical to invest big on them)......we have a couple big guys now that can go up for it....a few speedsters who can fly....some possession guys......really dont see the gaping hole or need for a mega receiver over other things.... I like what they are doing....If the ZBT regains it's form(and there's no reason it shouldn't) and the running game gets back on track, we have plenty of guys who can get open and some burners who can take it deep. Last year we had guys get open deep, fairly often, but didnt have QB who could get it there....not sure if we do now, we'll see.....but Id rather not invest in a WR until we do....... People forget that just last year, when Mack was healthy and our running game was clicking.....we lead the league in avg per pass and had more long balls than anyone......and it was the system that made it work.....so, Id like to see if we can get back to that and see if we can be successful no matter who's in there, rather than just be dependent on some "star" receiver.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I agree Mud, the only issue with the current Browns is there is no threat. Doesn't have to be a name brand but a 6'3 215lb with 4.4 speed would really help. I like Mayle's size but 4.67 isn't enough speed. Jalen Strong was available at a reasonable position. We have guys with speed....Hawkins/Benjamin. But speed isn't the absolute key ingredient to making a WR....unless we are talking about Mac Speedie. Look at the list of HOF WRs. Except for Bob Hayes, few of them were the speediest cats around. Having Glue Finger (like Lavelli ) is every bit as important. And crisp route running....like Warfield...is every bit as important. And putting yourself into the right position ....like Gary Collins, and Cris Carter is every bit the crucial element as well. So, to me....having great hands, running crisp routes, knowing how to position yourself for the catch are probably more essential than speed. If this guy comes here and breaks Gary Collins record for career TD passes, we will all forget that he isn't Usain Bolt in pads and cleats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 If you have a good oline and can run the football, the WRs do not have to be studs. They need to do their jobs, meaning running good routes, not taking plays off, blocking, and most importantly, catching the ball when it is thrown to them. A little YAC doesn't hurt either. Last year, the Browns rotated guys in and out quite a bit keeping them fresh too. We had things functioning just fine until Gordon came back playing half ass backyard football and the shit hit the fan.This corps is probably the best we have had since the return depth wise. Great slot guys in Hawk and little Gabriel, good size and enough speed with Bowe and Hartline and some developmental guys starting with Mayle. If Benji is your sixth WR on the roster, you have some pretty good depth. I will take good, disciplined WRs any day and every day over some choads like Little, Morgan and Edwards etc. Holy shit, not a name I expected to see. I also completely agree but was shocked the Browns waited so long to draft a receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 If you have a good oline and can run the football, the WRs do not have to be studs. They need to do their jobs, meaning running good routes, not taking plays off, blocking, and most importantly, catching the ball when it is thrown to them. Added a touch of emphasis to a WR role needed by every running team. Hawk and Gabe were real gamers when it came to blocking last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Damn Shame, but Devon Smith maybe the Next Hines Ward , to blow somebody up on down field block, with no Cheap Shot Required... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I would only say that I think we got what we need and I have lots of confidence in our current group...(plus, Im another one that just doesn't believe WR's are that critical to invest big on them)......we have a couple big guys now that can go up for it....a few speedsters who can fly....some possession guys......really dont see the gaping hole or need for a mega receiver over other things.... I like what they are doing....If the ZBT regains it's form(and there's no reason it shouldn't) and the running game gets back on track, we have plenty of guys who can get open and some burners who can take it deep. Last year we had guys get open deep, fairly often, but didnt have QB who could get it there....not sure if we do now, we'll see.....but Id rather not invest in a WR until we do....... People forget that just last year, when Mack was healthy and our running game was clicking.....we lead the league in avg per pass and had more long balls than anyone......and it was the system that made it work.....so, Id like to see if we can get back to that and see if we can be successful no matter who's in there, rather than just be dependent on some "star" receiver.... Just don't have anyone that poses a matchup problem and thus no threat to stretch the field or score in the redzone. Our burners are too small to get 50/50 balls and our bigger receivers can't run past anyone. I really don't think we needed a "Mega Receiver" but Strong would have been a viable inexpensive option. Before Mack got hurt we played one decent defense, the Ravens. I guess we can agree to disagree but if the team struggles to score points next year it will be on the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 We have guys with speed....Hawkins/Benjamin. But speed isn't the absolute key ingredient to making a WR....unless we are talking about Mac Speedie. Look at the list of HOF WRs. Except for Bob Hayes, few of them were the speediest cats around. Having Glue Finger (like Lavelli ) is every bit as important. And crisp route running....like Warfield...is every bit as important. And putting yourself into the right position ....like Gary Collins, and Cris Carter is every bit the crucial element as well. So, to me....having great hands, running crisp routes, knowing how to position yourself for the catch are probably more essential than speed. If this guy comes here and breaks Gary Collins record for career TD passes, we will all forget that he isn't Usain Bolt in pads and cleats. A very good WR is a blend of speed and size, the Browns have both just not combined in a single WR. QBs don't put every deep ball on the money and DBs don't always fall down, a number of times that happened last year. I remember at least 3 deep throws to Benjamin last year where the DB just flat out beat him to the under thrown ball where a Julio Jones, AJ Green, Beckham, Johnson, etc. pulls those down. I can't remember may times a Browns WR won a contested ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I really don't think we needed a "Mega Receiver" but Strong would have been a viable inexpensive option. Before Mack got hurt we played one decent defense, the Ravens. I guess we can agree to disagree but if the team struggles to score points next year it will be on the passing game. I hear ya....and yeah, we just have different perspectives...all good.... The thing about Strong is....I see Mayle as being about the same thing.....except, I think ,Mayle could have more upside. They are both the same size and about the same speed. Strong is a touch faster, but nowhere near a burner or someone who will separate from DB's. I got into a debate with someone before the draft because I wanted the Browns NOT to pick Strong simply because of his drops and inconsistency. He was on my short list of players to avoid, actually. I see Mayle as a very similar style of player, but with much less experience.....and I think the inexperience offers a better hope for improvement, than a guy who's been working at it for a while(and still cant catch well)..... So, while neither is a mega receiver, I dont see much difference between the 2 or anything that suggests Strong will be good..... Either way...until we have a QB, it's all moot....passing game may be crap, but Id bet QB is the larger part of that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusKing Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Simply put, the lack of offensive weapons when it comes to this team is disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 A very good WR is a blend of speed and size, the Browns have both just not combined in a single WR. QBs don't put every deep ball on the money and DBs don't always fall down, a number of times that happened last year. I remember at least 3 deep throws to Benjamin last year where the DB just flat out beat him to the under thrown ball where a Julio Jones, AJ Green, Beckham, Johnson, etc. pulls those down. I can't remember may times a Browns WR won a contested ball. I am not sure you are making sense....or I am misunderstanding. Benjamin goes deep....but then a ball is underthrown....and the DB gets back into position to win the battle for the underthrown ball. How in hell is this an issue with Benjamin's speed? It seems like it is an issue with the QBs arm....or with Benjamin's height....as we know he is short....but not his speed. And, yes, a 6'5" guy like Johnson or Green will have a better chance to pull down a jump ball over a 5'9" guy like Benjamin. So....now we have Hartline, Bowe who are both 6'2"....same as Austin Miles who they replaced and Mayles who is 6'3/6'4" So, maybe the Browns will have a better chance to pull down those jump balls. And Benjamin runs a 4.36 40. And Andrew Hawkins runs a 4.34 40. Faster than the 4.5 that both Bowe and Hartline run. (and all of whom are faster than Mayle's 4.67 time. So...we have a couple of shorter speedsters, and a few larger but slower possession guys. With the Right QB they could get the job done. Note the teams that were in the SB......no great shakes at WR. The best receiver on either team was Gronk the TE. The Browns will make do. Unless...you really do want to sign up Usain Bolt......he could probably run about a 4.2 40. And he is 6'5".....big enough to haul down those jump balls. But could he catch....and take a hit? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Simply put, the lack of offensive weapons when it comes to this team is disappointing. But that really comes down now to one guy: a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 I am not sure you are making sense....or I am misunderstanding. Benjamin goes deep....but then a ball is underthrown....and the DB gets back into position to win the battle for the underthrown ball. How in hell is this an issue with Benjamin's speed? It seems like it is an issue with the QBs arm....or with Benjamin's height....as we know he is short....but not his speed. And, yes, a 6'5" guy like Johnson or Green will have a better chance to pull down a jump ball over a 5'9" guy like Benjamin. So....now we have Hartline, Bowe who are both 6'2"....same as Austin Miles who they replaced and Mayles who is 6'3/6'4" So, maybe the Browns will have a better chance to pull down those jump balls. And Benjamin runs a 4.36 40. And Andrew Hawkins runs a 4.34 40. Faster than the 4.5 that both Bowe and Hartline run. (and all of whom are faster than Mayle's 4.67 time. So...we have a couple of shorter speedsters, and a few larger but slower possession guys. With the Right QB they could get the job done. Note the teams that were in the SB......no great shakes at WR. The best receiver on either team was Gronk the TE. The Browns will make do. Unless...you really do want to sign up Usain Bolt......he could probably run about a 4.2 40. And he is 6'5".....big enough to haul down those jump balls. But could he catch....and take a hit? Probably not. My point is the Browns have size and strength just not in the same player and defenses have the ability to adjust to one or the other but not both. All I heard all year long was look the Seahawks are winning with Kearse and Baldwin and then....wait for it...they sign Jimmy Graham to give them the size and speed guy to make their offense more dangerous. Unless you have Aaron Rodgers it helps your QB out a lot to have that "difficult to defend" receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 I hear ya....and yeah, we just have different perspectives...all good.... The thing about Strong is....I see Mayle as being about the same thing.....except, I think ,Mayle could have more upside. They are both the same size and about the same speed. Strong is a touch faster, but nowhere near a burner or someone who will separate from DB's. I got into a debate with someone before the draft because I wanted the Browns NOT to pick Strong simply because of his drops and inconsistency. He was on my short list of players to avoid, actually. I see Mayle as a very similar style of player, but with much less experience.....and I think the inexperience offers a better hope for improvement, than a guy who's been working at it for a while(and still cant catch well)..... So, while neither is a mega receiver, I dont see much difference between the 2 or anything that suggests Strong will be good..... Either way...until we have a QB, it's all moot....passing game may be crap, but Id bet QB is the larger part of that..... Mayle ran a 4.67 and Strong ran a 4.44, that is a bit of a speed disparity. Beasley at LB ran a 4.53. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 My point is the Browns have size and strength just not in the same player and defenses have the ability to adjust to one or the other but not both. All I heard all year long was look the Seahawks are winning with Kearse and Baldwin and then....wait for it...they sign Jimmy Graham to give them the size and speed guy to make their offense more dangerous. Unless you have Aaron Rodgers it helps your QB out a lot to have that "difficult to defend" receiver. Well, sure, if you have the whole package: speed, size, sticky fingers, chutzpah....then you have Randy Moss, still perhaps the best physical specimen ever at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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