The Gipper Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Here is the list of Hall of Fame QBs ....plus those of some pretty sure fire HOF QBs by regular season win percentage: Otto Graham .840 Tom Brady .773 Roger Staubach .746 Joe Montana .713 Peyton Manning .699 Bob Waterfield .685 Aaron Rodger .680 Terry Bradshaw .677 Ben Roethlisberger .671 Steve Young .657 John Unitas .645 John Elway .643 Jim Kelly .631 Norm Van Brocklin .629 Brett Favre .624 Bob Griese .619 Bart Starr .618 Len Dawson .616 Dan Marino .613 YA Tittle .596 Troy Aikman .570 Bobby Layne .568 Fran Tarkenton .531 George Blanda .514 Dan Fouts .506 Warren Moon .502 Joe Namath .496 Sonny Jurgenson .487 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Now, my purpose in this post is to do this....insert other NON HOFers into their slots amongst the Hall of Famers: Otto Graham .840 Darryl Lamonica .784 Tom Brady .773 Roger Staubach .746 Joe Montana .713 Peyton Manning .699 Jim McMahon .691 Bob Waterfield .685 Aaron Rodgers .680 Terry Bradshaw .677 Danny White .674 Frank Ryan .672 Ben Roethlisberger .671 Ken Stabler .661 Steve Young .657 John Unitas .645 Pat Haden .645 John Elway .643 Jack Kemp .633 Jim Kelly .631 Norm Van Brocklin .629 Earl Morrall. .626 Brett Favre .624 Charley Conerly .624 Joe Theisman .621 Bob Griese .619 Bart Starr .618 Len Dawson .616 Jeff Hostetler .614 Dan Marino .613 Donovan McNabb .612 Randall Cunningham .611 Mark Rypien .603 YA Tittle .596 Kurt Warner .578 Brad Johnson .578 Troy Aikman .570 Bobby Layne .568 Eli Manning .545 Fran Tarkenton .531 George Blanda .514 Trent Dilfer .513 Dan Fouts .506 Warren Moon .502 Jim Plunkett .500 Joe Namath .496 Sonny Jurgenson .487 So? Who should go from red to black on this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Now, my purpose in this post is to do this....insert other NON HOFers into their slots amongst the Hall of Famers: Otto Graham .840 Darryl Lamonica .784 Tom Brady .773 Roger Staubach .746 Joe Montana .713 Peyton Manning .699 Jim McMahon .691 Bob Waterfield .685 Aaron Rodgers .680 Terry Bradshaw .677 Danny White .674 Frank Ryan .672 Ben Roethlisberger .671 Ken Stabler .661 Steve Young .657 John Unitas .645 Pat Haden .645 John Elway .643 Jack Kemp .633 Jim Kelly .631 Norm Van Brocklin .629 Earl Morrall. .626 Brett Favre .624 Charley Conerly .624 Joe Theisman .621 Bob Griese .619 Bart Starr .618 Len Dawson .616 Jeff Hostetler .614 Dan Marino .613 Donovan McNabb .612 Randall Cunningham .611 Mark Rypien .603 YA Tittle .596 Kurt Warner .578 Brad Johnson .578 Troy Aikman .570 Bobby Layne .568 Eli Manning .545 Fran Tarkenton .531 George Blanda .514 Trent Dilfer .513 Dan Fouts .506 Warren Moon .502 Jim Plunkett .500 Joe Namath .496 Sonny Jurgenson .487 So? Who should go from red to black on this list? Kurt Warner. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well, here is an argument for The Snake to be HOF: Ken Stabler: played 15 years Steve Young: played 15 years Stabler: 96-49-1 regular season record. .661 win pct. 7-5 postseason record. Played in and won one SB Efforts to win more thwarted by better team in 70s Steelers Young: 94-49-0 regular season record. .657 win pct. 8-6 postseason record. Played in and won one SB Efforts to win more thwarted by better team in 90s Cowboys. Stabler: 2270/3793 for 27,938 yards. 59.8 completion pct Young: 2667/4149 for 33124 yards. 64.3 completion pct. (in a much more pass happy offense) Stabler: 194 TDs 5.1 TD pct. Young: 232 TDs 5.6 TD pct. Stabler: 7.4 ypa, 12.3 ypc, 151.8 ypg Young: 8.0 ypa, 12.4 ypc, 196.0 ypg Stabler: 75.3 rating Young: 96.8 rating Honestly: where is the big difference between them? The QB rating? That's about it. Everyone knows that the WCO played in by Young was a far more amenable offense to passer rating than the "Mad Bomber" offense that Stabler played in. Other than that these two QBs are pretty statistically even, yet Young is in and Stabler is not. It could be argued that Stabler's stats may be more impressive given the era (bump and run) and offense he played in vs. that of Young (no touchy feely on the WRs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think what hurts Kenny is his interception numbers and the rapid decent of his career. He didn't become a starter until he was 28 and his last good year was when he was 34. Didn't take care of his body. Some guys aren't Hall of Famers, but will always be legends. Here are Steve Young's passer ratings from the years he was a starter: 101.8, 107.0, 101.5,112.8, 92.3,97.2, 104.7, 101.1 In only eight years as a starter he was the highest rated QB in the league six times. Made the Pro Bowl seven consecutive years, first team All-Pro 3 consectutive years and League MVP once. Oh ... and he RAN for 4,239 yards and 43 TDs. Best QB of his era ... and it was a good era with Favre & Aikman in their peak and Elway and Marino still getting it done. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh ... and he RAN for 4,239 yards and 43 TDs. Best QB of his era ... and it was a good era with Favre & Aikman in their peak and Elway and Marino still getting it done. I agree...Youngs always on my short list of the greatest QB's I ever watched.......and as much as I liked Stabler, he doesn't even get close to Young on my all timers list....sorry Gip, but Id say Stabler was a great player, but not HOF...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think what hurts Kenny is his interception numbers and the rapid decent of his career. He didn't become a starter until he was 28 and his last good year was when he was 34. Didn't take care of his body. Some guys aren't Hall of Famers, but will always be legends. Here are Steve Young's passer ratings from the years he was a starter: 101.8, 107.0, 101.5,112.8, 92.3,97.2, 104.7, 101.1 In only eight years as a starter he was the highest rated QB in the league six times. Made the Pro Bowl seven consecutive years, first team All-Pro 3 consectutive years and League MVP once. Oh ... and he RAN for 4,239 yards and 43 TDs. Best QB of his era ... and it was a good era with Favre & Aikman in their peak and Elway and Marino still getting it done. Zombo You think it is running that put Young in over Stabler? And Steve Young came to starting late as did Stabler because Young was behind Montana as Stabler was behind Lamonica. As for best QB of his era, who besides Bradshaw and Staubach could you put ahead of Stabler? Stabler came to play with bad teams at the end of his career, The declining Oilers then the Saints. I don't know if he declined so much or was it the teams around him. But no, he did not have Young's legs. And the interceptions were a matter of the era. Bradshaw, Namath etc. all had "bad" int. numbers compared to these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I agree...Youngs always on my short list of the greatest QB's I ever watched.......and as much as I liked Stabler, he doesn't even get close to Young on my all timers list....sorry Gip, but Id say Stabler was a great player, but not HOF...... But, Young's passing numbers and Stablers aren't far off.....unless you to are give all that credence to his legs. And look at the "winning"....Stabler even a scoche better. And, in my view, he isn't even close on the "greatest" QBs of his own era. He is of the same era as Elway, Marino, Kelly et al. If you are to say that Stabler was only 3rd/4th best of his era, the same has to be said of Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 You think it is running that put Young in over Stabler? And Steve Young came to starting late as did Stabler because Young was behind Montana as Stabler was behind Lamonica. As for best QB of his era, who besides Bradshaw and Staubach could you put ahead of Stabler? Stabler came to play with bad teams at the end of his career, The declining Oilers then the Saints. I don't know if he declined so much or was it the teams around him. But no, he did not have Young's legs. And the interceptions were a matter of the era. Bradshaw, Namath etc. all had "bad" int. numbers compared to these days. No, I didn't think it was the running that put him in over Stabler, that was an "oh by the way" ... I added that after I posted Young's passing accomplishments.Did you read that or just skip to the last part? You must have done too many bong hits in the 70's if you don't remember Kenny Stabler's decline. Houston was a very good team when he got there. His knees were shot and he didn't take care of himself. Al Davis got rid of him at the right time. Somehow you left off Bob Griese and Fran Tarkenton as QBs from the 70's that were better than Stabler. From 1975-1980 Stabler threw 118 TDs to 141 INTs Greise 78-69 Tark 76-67 Staubach 101-63 Bradshaw 99-82 Those guys all became much more efficient passers in the late 70s while Stabler became more careless. Stabler led his league in passing just once, while Young led his 6 times Young clearly the better passer. But if you want to mention running ... Stabler ran for 93 yards in his career, Young did that in one play (or so it seemed ...) https://youtu.be/LbPwwmEcws0 Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 But, Young's passing numbers and Stablers aren't far off.....unless you to are give all that credence to his legs. And look at the "winning"....Stabler even a scoche better. And, in my view, he isn't even close on the "greatest" QBs of his own era. He is of the same era as Elway, Marino, Kelly et al. If you are to say that Stabler was only 3rd/4th best of his era, the same has to be said of Young. This article I would say is the generally accepted rankings of QBs of by decade: Stabler 5th best of the 70s (Staubach, Bradshaw, Griese, Tarkenton) Young #1 QB of the 90s (over Favre, Aikman, Marino, Elway, Kelly and Moon) http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=3199634 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 No, I didn't think it was the running that put him in over Stabler, that was an "oh by the way" ... I added that after I posted Young's passing accomplishments.Did you read that or just skip to the last part? You must have done too many bong hits in the 70's if you don't remember Kenny Stabler's decline. Houston was a very good team when he got there. His knees were shot and he didn't take care of himself. Al Davis got rid of him at the right time. Somehow you left off Bob Griese and Fran Tarkenton as QBs from the 70's that were better than Stabler. From 1975-1980 Stabler threw 118 TDs to 141 INTs Greise 78-69 Tark 76-67 Staubach 101-63 Bradshaw 99-82 Those guys all became much more efficient passers in the late 70s while Stabler became more careless. Stabler led his league in passing just once, while Young led his 6 times Young clearly the better passer. But if you want to mention running ... Stabler ran for 93 yards in his career, Young did that in one play. Zombo Bottom line: Stabler had his teams in their scrapping for the championship as much or more as Young. Stabler's legs went out from under him, Young's brain went out from under him...at about the same age. Maybe it could be said that Young became just as reckless and careless as Stabler, from a personal protection point of view. I don't see Young as necessarily a "better passer". He threw a lot lot more of the short crossing patterns that the WCO called for ..allowing him to have a better completion pct.....that Stabler's down field passing philosophy didn't utilize as much. I will give you that Tarkenton was probably a better QB, but not necessarily Griese. Way different styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 This article I would say is the generally accepted rankings of QBs of by decade: Stabler 5th best of the 70s (Staubach, Bradshaw, Griese, Tarkenton) Young #1 QB of the 90s (over Favre, Aikman, Marino, Elway, Kelly and Moon) http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=3199634 I don't know about "generally accepted". That seems to be one person's opinion.....I would NOT put Young over any of those guys except Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Bottom line: Stabler had his teams in their scrapping for the championship as much or more as Young. Stabler's legs went out from under him, Young's brain went out from under him...at about the same age. Maybe it could be said that Young became just as reckless and careless as Stabler, from a personal protection point of view. I don't see Young as necessarily a "better passer". He threw a lot lot more of the short crossing patterns that the WCO called for ..allowing him to have a better completion pct.....that Stabler's down field passing philosophy didn't utilize as much. I will give you that Tarkenton was probably a better QB, but not necessarily Griese. Way different styles. I admire your defense of Stabler. But I am truly stunned of your lack of appreciation of Steve Young. Where were you in the 90's? He is one of the greatest QBs I have ever seen. If we're throwing out WCO QBs I guess we can throw Montana and Favre on that scrap heap too. All they did was throw darts and win. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I don't know about "generally accepted". That seems to be one person's opinion.....I would NOT put Young over any of those guys except Moon. For just the 90's?? Young was the QB of the decade. I'm sorry you somehow missed it. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Here we go....I will add this feature here......These are the most "Productive QBs" of each era broken down as follows: QBs drafted in each decade ranked by their PFR career Production average. I acknowledge certainly that this stat does not say who the "Best QBs" are, only most productive over their careers. And one thing it does not do is rank undrafted QB. So Kurt Warner and a few others may not show up here. But it is at least one thing to look at: QBs drafted 1950-1959 1.John Unitas 2. Len Dawson 3. Sonny Jurgenson 4. John Brodie 5. Bart Starr 6. Frank Ryan 7. Jack Kemp 8. Earl Morrall 9. Babe Parilli 10. Milt Plum 11. Billy Wade 12. Cotton Davidson 13. Ed Brown 14. Rudy Bukich 15. Jim Ninowski QBs drafted 1960-1969: 1. Fran Tarkenton 2. Roger Staubach 3. Bob Griese 4. John Hadl 5. Roman Gabriel 6. Ken Stabler 7. Joe Namath 8. Norm Snead 9. Craig Morton 10. Greg Landry 11. Charley Johnson 12. Darryl Lamonica 13. Billy Kilmer 14. Don Meredith 15. Bill Nelsen QBs drafted 1970-1979: 1. Joe Montana 2. Dan Fouts 3. Ken Anderson 4. Terry Bradshaw 5. Phil Simms 6. Steve Grogan 7. Joe Theismann 8. Jim Plunkett 9. Danny White 10. Ron Jaworski 11. Bert Jones 12. Joe Ferguson 13. Steve DeBerg 14. Brian Sipe 15. Archie Manning QBs drafted 1980-1989: 1. Dan Marino 2. John Elway 3. Steve Young 4. Randall Cunningham 5. Boomer Esiason 6. Jim Kelly 7. Rich Gannon 8. Troy Aikman 9. Vinny Testaverde 10. Jim Everett 11. Jim Harbaugh 12. Chris Chandler 13. Ken O'Brien 14. Neil Lomax 15. Steve Beurlein 16. Bernie Kosar QBs drafted between 1990 and 1999: 1. Peyton Manning 2. Brett Favre 3. Donovan McNabb 4. Drew Bledsoe 5. Steve McNair 6. Mark Brunell 7. Trent Green 8. Daunte Culpepper 9. Matt Hasselback 10. Kerry Collins 11. Jake Plummer 12. Brad Johnson 13. Jeff Blake 14. Aaron Brooks 15. Jeff George QBs drafted between 2000-2009: 1. Tom Brady 2. Drew Brees 3. Phillip Rivers 4. Aaron Rodgers 5. Ben Roethlisberger 6. Eli Manning 7. Michael Vick 8. Carson Palmer 9. Matt Ryan 10. Jay Cutler 11. Joe Flacco 12. Matt Schaub 13. David Garrard 14. Alex Smith 15. Marc Bulger QBs drafted between 2010-2014 (10 listed): 1. Cam Newton 2. Russell Wilson 3. Andy Dalton 4. Andrew Luck 5. Colin Kaepernick 6. Robert Griffin III 7. Ryan Tannehill 8. Sam Bradford 9. Christian Ponder 10. Nick Foles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I admire your defense of Stabler. But I am truly stunned of your lack of appreciation of Steve Young. Where were you in the 90's? He is one of the greatest QBs I have ever seen. If we're throwing out WCO QBs I guess we can throw Montana and Favre on that scrap heap too. All they did was throw darts and win. Zombo I was there for every bit of what Steve Young did. He was a good QB....but no, I don't place him above Elway/Marino/Kelly or Favre. And in comparison to Stabler, I guess I am simply looking at their records at winning things....and I say Stabler and Young are almost identical: Stabler was the starting QB for 7 playoff teams....same number as Young. Stabler won a SB, Young won one. Stabler had 4 other conference title game appearances, Young had 5. Young's teams threw the ball a bit more, so he has a few more numbers. Bottom line, looking at it historically, it was very close. And in watching them live, Young did not wow me any more than Stabler at leading his team. Yes, his occasional runs were a bit more "wowing". And then there was the "Cool factor". The Snake was just cooler than Young......and I gotta count that a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 For just the 90's?? Young was the QB of the decade. I'm sorry you somehow missed it. Zombo Maybe.....because I was seeing Kelly, Marino, Favre, Elway, Aikman doing it more and just as good or better than Young. Aikman was battling Kelly for much of the first half of that decade for team supremacy. Favre and Elway were battling each other for the last half of that decade. Young got one year squeezed in there. Kind of as an afterthought, sorta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Stabler 5th best of the 70s (Staubach, Bradshaw, Griese, Tarkenton) Young #1 QB of the 90s (over Favre, Aikman, Marino, Elway, Kelly and Moon) Yep, that ^^^^^^ sounds about right to me..... It's completely subjective, but Id have Young as high as 5th or 6th on my GOAT list, whilst I see Stabler more like a top 50 type of player.....not sure where exactly he'd stand, but I counted 30 Id personally rank ahead of him before I stopped.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Maybe.....because I was seeing Kelly, Marino, Favre, Elway, Aikman doing it more and just as good or better than Young. Aikman was battling Kelly for much of the first half of that decade for team supremacy. Favre and Elway were battling each other for the last half of that decade. Young got one year squeezed in there. Kind of as an afterthought, sorta. You seem to be substituting QB names for team names. It's a team sport and Dan Marino was a better QB than Eli Manning or Jim Plunkett. Elway got a couple titles when he was less of a QB than he was earlier in his career because he was on better teams. Steve Young was the starter for eight years and led the league in passing six times and made 7 Pro Bowls. Retired with the highest passer rating in the history of the NFL. But you are saying he was not the best QB of his era because his team only won one SB. Well, Favre only one 1, Kelly won none, Marino won none, If John Elway retires two years earlier he gets none ... Troy Aikman must be your best QB of the era since he won those 3 rings all by himself. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 you know what they say....QB's get too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose..... Never been a fan of how QB's(or other players, ftm) get propped up so high just because they landed on great teams. In my eye's, lots of the greatest woulda been closer to average on lesser or bad teams...... True greatness usually shines through and Marino is the perfect example. No SB and no doubt he's one of the best. Conversely, take Bradshaws super bowls away and give him Marino's record and is he still one of the best or in the HOF?......(no way)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Remember when SF was ridiculed for trading a 2nd and 4th to the Bucs for a USFL/NFL bust? All of Young's stats are diluted by 19 awful starts in Tampa. For what it's worth PFF's Weighted Career AV for Young is 135 (15th overall since 1950). Stabler's is 94 (180th overall since 1950)... not bad, but not Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 You seem to be substituting QB names for team names. It's a team sport and Dan Marino was a better QB than Eli Manning or Jim Plunkett. Elway got a couple titles when he was less of a QB than he was earlier in his career because he was on better teams. Steve Young was the starter for eight years and led the league in passing six times and made 7 Pro Bowls. Retired with the highest passer rating in the history of the NFL. But you are saying he was not the best QB of his era because his team only won one SB. Well, Favre only one 1, Kelly won none, Marino won none, If John Elway retires two years earlier he gets none ... Troy Aikman must be your best QB of the era since he won those 3 rings all by himself. Zombo I know what I am saying....I am saying that I think Elway, Favre, Marino, Kelly, Aikman were better QBs. And certainly you know that I can count titles.....and yet I put two guys who never won one over your boy. As for being the highest rated passer in history....the guy that was chasing his tail was Jeff Garcia. There wasn't much of a dropoff after Garcia replaced Young at QB for the 49ers. Do you want to claim that Jeff Garcia was better than those other guys? I see Young as a system QB primarily. He fit that system well....but that did not give him primacy over other, better contemporary QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Remember when SF was ridiculed for trading a 2nd and 4th to the Bucs for a USFL/NFL bust? All of Young's stats are diluted by 19 awful starts in Tampa. For what it's worth PFF's Weighted Career AV for Young is 135 (15th overall since 1950). Stabler's is 94 (180th overall since 1950)... not bad, but not Young. But, if I had to choose a QB to play for me, I may likely take the Snake over Young....and feel good about it....statistics be damned. It is close enough in my view to make me consider it anyway. Young may get the nod.....but not until after long contemplation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I know what I am saying....I am saying that I think Elway, Favre, Marino, Kelly, Aikman were better QBs. And certainly you know that I can count titles.....and yet I put two guys who never won one over your boy. As for being the highest rated passer in history....the guy that was chasing his tail was Jeff Garcia. There wasn't much of a dropoff after Garcia replaced Young at QB for the 49ers. Do you want to claim that Jeff Garcia was better than those other guys? I see Young as a system QB primarily. He fit that system well....but that did not give him primacy over other, better contemporary QBs. System QB? In the NFL? He had better stats than Joe Montana in the same system, was Joe a system QB too? Young didn't win all those titles but he had Seifert and Mooch, while Joe had a HOF coach and best D in the league. Young had a great arm and was off the charts in mobility, accuracy and intelligence ... he would have done great in any system in any era. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Young vs. Boomer Esiason: Record: 94-49 vs. 80-93 Comps/Att: 2667/4149 vs. 2969/5202 Comp. %: 64.3 vs. 57.8 Yards: 33,124 vs. 37920 TDs: 232 vs. 247 TD%: 5.6% vs. 4.7 % Ints: 107 vs. 184 Int.%: 2.6% vs. 3.5% YPA: 8.0 vs. 7.3 YPC: 12.4 vs. 12.8 YPG: 196 vs. 202 Rating: 96.8 vs. 81.1 4th Qtr. comebacks 14 vs. 19 Game winning drive: 17 vs. 26 Statisically Boomer isn't far off.....except in winning record.....which as was pointed out, can be a team thing. Young won his only SB appearance, Boomer lost his fairly miraculously to Young predecessor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 System QB? In the NFL? He had better stats than Joe Montana in the same system, was Joe a system QB too? Young didn't win all those titles but he had Seifert and Mooch, while Joe had a HOF coach and best D in the league. Young had a great arm and was off the charts in mobility, accuracy and intelligence ... he would have done great in any system in any era. Z Maybe all of what you say is true....that yes, he and Joe were system QBs. (though Joe did well without the 49ers, Young didn't.) Young would have done well perhaps as you say. But he still would not have been a better QB than Montana/Favre/Marino/Elway/Kelly. I am not saying Young was a schlub...just that in my view he was far from the best of his era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 How about these stats for comparison: Young vs. Kelly in the USFL!: Starts: Young: 33 Kelly 36 Played same years 84/85 Atts/comp: Young 316/560 Kelly 730/1154 Comp %: Young 56.4 Kelly 63.3 Yards: Young 4102 Kelly 9842 TDs: Young: 16 Kelly 83 TD%: Young: 2.9 Kelly 7.2 Ints: Young 22 Kelly 45 Int.%: Young 3.9 Kelly 3.9 YPG: Young 113.9 Kelly 273.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 we all have our opinions, but the measurables all point to Young being the best of those mentioned...how can you deflect the highest passer rating ever??? Its not everything, but the difference between a 96.8 passer rating and a 75 or 81 is huge....and it accounts for all those numbers and stats you keep posting.... And Id also point out that Young is a first ballot hall of fame selection and the other 2(Esiason and Stabler) have been waiting decades....so their contemporaries and those that select the players for the HOF seem to agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Young vs. Boomer Esiason: Record: 94-49 vs. 80-93 Comps/Att: 2667/4149 vs. 2969/5202 Comp. %: 64.3 vs. 57.8 Yards: 33,124 vs. 37920 TDs: 232 vs. 247 TD%: 5.6% vs. 4.7 % Ints: 107 vs. 184 Int.%: 2.6% vs. 3.5% YPA: 8.0 vs. 7.3 YPC: 12.4 vs. 12.8 YPG: 196 vs. 202 Rating: 96.8 vs. 81.1 4th Qtr. comebacks 14 vs. 19 Game winning drive: 17 vs. 26 Statisically Boomer isn't far off.....except in winning record.....which as was pointed out, can be a team thing. Young won his only SB appearance, Boomer lost his fairly miraculously to Young predecessor. It's not even close. Killed him in accuracy, TD%, Int%, higher ypa and higher rating .... and same "system". Plus the running... Plus the winning ... plus the Championship ... Just stop. You're not a Steve Young fan. Got it. But no need to make a fool out of yourself Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 But, if I had to choose a QB to play for me, I may likely take the Snake over Young....and feel good about it....statistics be damned. It is close enough in my view to make me consider it anyway. Young may get the nod.....but not until after long contemplation. Long? Took me a few milliseconds... Here's the thing, Gip... you think that stats like completion percentages of 64 and 57% are "close" when they are very far apart. The scale is linear, but the difficulty is exponential. Each incremental percentage point in that 7-point differential is harder than the one that preceded it. As for your system notes, take a look at this YPC comparison. Young with SF: 12.5 Garcia w/ SF : 11.3 Stabler w/OAK: 12.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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