McCown was the wrong choice

[bringbackbrownie2]

It's not that McCown lost the job. He didn't. It's that this team has now shown over 3 games they're not nearly as good as we thought they were so playing for this year is now pointless.

 

We thought you just airdrop McCown behind an elite OL, a great running game, and an elite defense, and we had a chance to make the playoffs. I still believe that's true re: McCown. Problem is it doesn't appear we have any of those 3 things.

Could not agree more.

[Tour2ma]

Brady has 9 double digit INT years and Rodgers just happens to be the best pure passer in the NFL but fore the sake of argument I'd say Pettine would be fine with Andrew Luck over Josh Mccown

But only 3 of his last 6 full seasons... Tom Terrific strung 6 together early in his first 6 full-time years...

 

Luck is still learning and is in no position to game manage... Can't think of a QB who has more on him than Andrew does in Indy... but yeah, I think he'd get a look with us.

 

Ideally you want a QB who can be what you need based upon how a given Sunday unfolds... a QB that knows without being told to dial up or down his aggression-meter. Aaron and Tom do it. Wilson in SEA does as will although the scale on his dial is not as wide. I think Andrew would love to be able to dial it down some weeks.

 

QBs like McCown and Hoyer don't have a dial... you have to match their "speed". Fitz with the Jets is the same way.

 

Favre only dialed it down one year... and I think it killed him to not be him. Coincidentally it was the only year he won a SB. By and large the same for P. Manning, although circumstances dictated more aggression more of the time.

 

JM shows signs of being able to dial it, but there's no doubt it goes against his nature... and that puts him in conflict with Pet as Faded pointed out.

[BaconHound]

But only 3 of his last 6 full seasons... Tom Terrific strung 6 together early in his first 6 full-time years...

 

Luck is still learning and is in no position to game manage... Can't think of a QB who has more on him than Andrew does in Indy... but yeah, I think he'd get a look with us.

 

Ideally you want a QB who can be what you need based upon how a given Sunday unfolds... a QB that knows without being told to dial up or down his aggression-meter. Aaron and Tom do it. Wilson in SEA does as will although the scale on his dial is not as wide. I think Andrew would love to be able to dial it down some weeks.

 

QBs like McCown and Hoyer don't have a dial... you have to match their "speed". Fitz with the Jets is the same way.

 

Favre only dialed it down one year... and I think it killed him to not be him. Coincidentally it was the only year he won a SB. By and large the same for P. Manning, although circumstances dictated more aggression more of the time.

 

JM shows signs of being able to dial it, but there's no doubt it goes against his nature... and that puts him in conflict with Pet as Faded pointed out.

 

I guess I don't see the great upside of Manziel. I don't see the physical attributes or NFL intangibles that would make him a good NFL QB.

[tiredbrownsfan]

the coach should NEVER try to make thE QB the way HE wants him to play. the coach SHOULD mold the team around the way the QB plays. JM looked good the first game. JM DID NOT lose the first game. the o-line did that. JM looked GOOD the next game AND got the win. so why did they not play him today??? I am and always will be a browns fan but...there is something funny going on with the endless years of the SAME STUPID THINGS BEING DONE OVER AND OVER. JM is the FIRST QB we have had in a long time that looks like he just MIGHT be the one. but...the browns WILL fuck him up somehow! they always do.

[MLD Woody]

Alright guys. I'll say it. Just because I'm very knowledgeable about football. We shouldn't have passed on Russell Wilson. There. I said it

[BaconHound]

 

Every post is the same: Manziel doesn't look like an NFL QB, and, therefore, he cannot succeed.

 

You're not alone. Half the coaches in the NFL would make the same assessment without two minutes thought. It's one of the reasons the league has gotten so boring to watch.

 

Maybe the Browns will get lucky and Ryan Fitzpatrick will be available next year...

It's not what he looks like, it's how he plays. Russell Wilson doesn't look like the prototypical NFL QB.

[D Bone]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this, but check out Pet's demeanor in his post game presser. Makes me feel better knowing how sick he is (what do they say about misery?) I liked his reaction to the question about us giving up a 300yd passer, 100yd receiver and 100yd rusher today;

 

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Mike-Pettine-press-conference-Browns-vs-Raiders/0b32ab1c-9e2c-4e47-a81f-51f6cb54d3b9#content-tools-link

[BaconHound]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this, but check out Pet's demeanor in his post game presser. Makes me feel better knowing how sick he is (what do they say about misery?) I liked his reaction to the question about us giving up a 300yd passer, 100yd receiver and 100yd rusher today;

 

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Mike-Pettine-press-conference-Browns-vs-Raiders/0b32ab1c-9e2c-4e47-a81f-51f6cb54d3b9#content-tools-link

He comes through well on press conferences, not sure how many wins that translates to, don't get me wrong I like Pettine. The common theme from the Mangini, Shurmur, Chudzinski and Pettine administrations is a complete and utter lack of talent and a willingness of the fans to overlook that fact and blame the coach. At no point in the last 5-7 years have we been a coach away from being a contender.

[jcam222]

I'll just state my opinion once, and I'll do it here. The QB position is an area of concern, but it isn't even in the top 3 areas of concern for me. Our offensive line play is awful. Our game day readiness is pathetic. Our Defense is as far from being a bully as one can get. Our offensive play calling is beyond predictable....... Shit, I can keep going on and on, but I don't want to.......... As for the QB position, I would start Johnny this week, no question about it.

 

We just aren't a good football team.... Period. Coaching and players alike. We look like the doormat of the NFL, so there is nowhere to go but up (please God, let us not fall any lower) and we might as well see if Johnny is our elusive franchise QB, or if he's just the next former Browns QB bust.

 

The organization should be embarrassed, I know I am.

This post is an A+ , very well said

[hoorta]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this, but check out Pet's demeanor in his post game presser. Makes me feel better knowing how sick he is (what do they say about misery?) I liked his reaction to the question about us giving up a 300yd passer, 100yd receiver and 100yd rusher today;

 

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Mike-Pettine-press-conference-Browns-vs-Raiders/0b32ab1c-9e2c-4e47-a81f-51f6cb54d3b9#content-tools-link

 

What I took away- hmm... already sweating bullets Mike?

 

"it's not like he (MCCown) has a short leash." I have to wonder just how long it is, until he sees- McCown isn't the answer- and never was.

[Opal312]

McCown is too old and too injury prone for this team. He's going to get killed out there. He did the best job a 36 year old journeyman can do with no O line and defense. They better worry about keeping him healthy cuz he sure ain't mobile. And that interception at the end was agonizing. But it wasn't his fault.

[TexasAg1969]

You can tell he seems more disappointed in the defense not being consistent ("like a scout team"). He counts on that D to keep us in games and it just didn't do it throughout the game.

 

I was equally disappointed in the lack of "push" by our OL. No QB can produce if the run is not a true threat.

[The Cysko Kid]

Josh threw for 341 today with 2 touchdowns and an INT. That's...not horrible for a browns qb. It was better than I expected.

[D Bone]

He threw from a dirty pocket all frickin' day long too. O line play was terrible.

[TexasAg1969]

He threw from a dirty pocket all frickin' day long too. O line play was terrible.

 

I suspect tour's grades are going to reflect this too.

[miktoxic]

when you wake the fuck up out of your daze and look at the #'s tomorrow all you bitches complaining about mccown will realize, the game was not lost because of his play. #6 ranked qb ranking yesterday and he's the reason the team lost? GTFO.

 

how about a porous run defense that was supposed to have been fixed this year?

 

that's the shit show i saw. everyone else must be seeing something else.

[wargograw]

Read the post I made Mik. It's not that McCown was bad today. It's that we realized the reasons he was brought in were inaccurate.

[Tour2ma]

Thanks, Tour. Reading your posts, it seems like we agree more than we don't...

You are welcome, sir. Agree or disagree... the encounters are enjoyable.

 

"it's not like he (MCCown) has a short leash."

I believe that is what O'Brian told Hoyer.

 

I suspect tour's grades are going to reflect this too.

Don't bias the judge...

[Why?!?!?]

If McCown doesn't completely blow the first half this game could've went a lot differently. He was not the sole reason for the loss by a long shot, but his play was well below par for a quality NFL starter.

[Westside Steve]

So even though you guys realize I'm a fan of Johnny I don't think the quarterback decision was the key factor in this game. Granted Josh McCown had a pretty bad game partly due to his own and accuracy and partly due to the predictable game plan.

 

 

- but he would look great for stretches-

 

 

Would things have gone differently with Johnny under center? That's hard to say. His forte hasn't exactly been pinpoint accuracy but scrambling ability and making chicken salad out of chicken shit. Unfortunately you can't count on that every play.

 

And unfortunately I guess we can't count on defensive touchdowns every game either.

 

JFF was in sync with Benjamin while Josh was in sync with Gary Barnidge. Just not often enough for the latter.

 

 

What I mostly wonder about is:

 

 

Why can't a healthy Pro Bowl offensive line break a hole for a running back? They did it last year with a turd quarterback.

 

 

Why can't a promising back like the crow any promising rookie in Johnson run for any yards at all? See above, we had a pretty decent running game last year. And it should be better this year right?

 

 

Why can't what was supposed to be some damn fine defensive backs cover anybody? For a while last season they terrorized receivers and quarterbacks. Where is Joe?

 

 

I don't like penalties any more than anyone else but it's not like the zebras weren't just as annoying to the Raiders.

 

 

I don't think it's anywhere near time to panic but even though I don't blame Josh McCown or the decision to start him for this loss we might as well accept the fact that if Johnny is in the future plans he will probably learn and progress more by starting for a 4 and 16 team then sitting on the bench learning from Josh McCown on a 4 and 16 team.

 

 

Maybe it's better to start the season poorly and improve as time goes by that start out with a lot of luck and then collapse.

 

If Josh McCown must be the starter I hope the cobwebs clear soon.

 

WSS

[D Bone]

^ Agree with almost everything you said. I'll pick out the one thing we see different, and for me, I'm pushing that panic button like a pedestrian presses the crosswalk button. We are entering game 4, which is the 1/4 point of a very short season....... Equivalent to about game 40 in baseball.

 

At some point, "you are what you are" and to think that suddenly the Browns will be able to run the ball, or stop the run when they haven't been able to do either dating back as long as my 47yr old memory can recall, is just crazy wishing in my opinion.

[Westside Steve]

Well you're probably right d-bone but I'm just being Pollyanna I guess and telling myself "gee whiz these guys will get it together soon! They just need a little time to get used to each other after Macks absence. And just wait until Shelton and the d-line gel!"

 

Yes yes I know kind of like " well she probably hasn't called back because her cell phone and email are down..."

 

 

WSS

[D Bone]

I'm just being Pollyanna I guess and telling myself "gee whiz these guys will get it together soon! They just need a little time to get used to each other after Macks absence. And just wait until Shelton and the d-line gel!"

 

Yes yes I know kind of like " well she probably hasn't called back because her cell phone and email is down..."

 

 

WSS

 

I've been doing that since '99 - at least!

[TexasAg1969]

and to think that suddenly the Browns will be able to run the ball, or stop the run when they haven't been able to do either dating back as long as my 47yr old memory can recall, is just crazy wishing in my opinion.

 

Well see there's the problem right there. If you were as old as mik and me you'd be able to recall those days.

[bbedward]

I don't think the QB decision made a difference either, but McCown still isn't a very good QB.

 

I think we have 2 QBs on the roster who may develop into better QBs than McCown honestly.

[Westside Steve]

I don't think the QB decision made a difference either, but McCown still isn't a very good QB.

 

I think we have 2 QBs on the roster who may develop into better QBs than McCown honestly.

Well I'm not sure. I don't like the quick hook. He could turn out to be rich Ganon but the rest of Team has to quit sucking. Johnny might be special given a chance, but will never know if we blow everything up every two seasons. And honestly how much worse can it be?

 

WSS

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

• 28 - 49 | 341 yards | 2 TD | 1 INT
• 20 - 32 | 311 yards | 2 TD | 1 INT
• 31 - 42 | 324 yards | 2 TD | 1 INT

Can you pick out which one of those was McCown's performance? What if I add this stat in?

 

• 28 - 49 | 341 yards | 2 TD | 1 INT | 5 sacks
• 20 - 32 | 311 yards | 2 TD | 1 INT | 1 sack
• 31 - 42 | 324 yards | 2 TD | 1 INT | 1 sack

McCown isn't a world-beater, but he didn't lose us the game yesterday. Yes, there were two passes that could have changed the outcome of the game that I'm sure he wishes he had back...but he was harassed all game, his defense got him into a hole and his running game did him zero favors.

 

In order of importance, I'd say the problems are more like:

• Defensive pressure
• Run blocking
• Pass protection
• Secondary coverage
• Ball carrier vision
• QB Play

This team was supposedly built as a defensive powerhouse who would run the ball down your throat and then have our game managing QB come in and dunk you around when needed. Instead, we get Josh McCown throwing almost 50 passes.

[Tour2ma]

If McCown doesn't completely blow the first half this game could've went a lot differently. He was not the sole reason for the loss by a long shot, but his play was well below par for a quality NFL starter.

OK... which is it?

 

So even though you guys realize I'm a fan of Johnny...

GTFO.... since when, Steve???

 

Nice post...

 

O-line wise the 1st half of game 3 has been more of the same... A big missed block here... poor communication there. Mental errors were down at least as judged by penalties, but Mack forgetting the snap count on 4th and goal did kinda stick out there...

 

I'm really getting concerned about Crow's and Duke's field of vision. Sometimes there's nothing open before them, but other times there is... sometimes there are even choices. Seemed this week like they were back to rushing their decisions... maybe it's competition level.