The Cavs are just ridiculous

[Furnier]

After looking like ass in the first half and getting behind by their largest deficit all year....they simply filipped the switch and laid waste to the Mavs.

 

60-13. This team is scary.

 

Doug

[CIMO.]

Love Hickson putting a stamp on it, too.

[Canton Mike]

Doug,

AGREED! In all my 62 years, I have NEVER seen such a dominant Cleveland sports team...I have seen some great Indians, Browns, & Cavs teams, but none to compare with this.

I said it before & I'll say it again....They were great before, but I honestly believe that signing Joe Smith will get them the Championship. Just think...Big Gay Ben may even be back in time for the playoffs!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Mike

[DTBH]

I wish I could be like you guys when I see them blowing away teams in game like today.

 

But I can't. Because I know the true measure is how they play against the teams they'll have to beat in the playoffs to win the Larry O'Brien trophy. The Celtics, Lakers, Magic, and Spurs.

 

They're 3-5 against those teams this year. That includes 0-2 against their probable NBA Finals foes, and 2-3 against their probable ECF foes (Celtics or Magic.) Consistency has been the name of the game this year so they've beaten every team they should beat. But against top competition, can they play one level better and still win? The Cavs have been the most consistent team hence the best record, but when those top 5 teams are playing at their peak, are they still better than the Lakers? Magic? Celtics? I worry that those teams are actually better, but they've had some "USC" moments where they give a few games a way, something the Cavs never do.

 

That will remain a gigantic question in my mind until I see Bron hoisting the trophy.

[Guest Masters]

I don't buy those other teams are better than CLE and buy little into the regular season record. It's regular season, not a 7 game series, which is a completely different animal.

 

BOS has a weak bench. I certainly don't thnk House, Pruit, Starberry, Powe, and Davis is depth.

 

ORL barely has a bench.

 

The Lakers are the only complete team that is sitting out there which can compete with CLE in a 7 game series.

 

When CLE plays their D (which is what they failed to do in both LAL matchups and ORL matchup months ago), there is not a team that can beat them. What you get when CLE stays mentally in it on D is results like the past ORL matchup. Plus, can anyone really win in the Q? Only the Lakers have done that this season.

[DTBH]

I don't buy those other teams are better than CLE and buy little into the regular season record. It's regular season, not a 7 game series, which is a completely different animal.

 

BOS has a weak bench. I certainly don't thnk House, Pruit, Starberry, Powe, and Davis is depth.

 

ORL barely has a bench.

 

The Lakers are the only complete team that is sitting out there which can compete with CLE in a 7 game series.

 

When CLE plays their D (which is what they failed to do in both LAL matchups and ORL matchup months ago), there is not a team that can beat them. What you get when CLE stays mentally in it on D is results like the past ORL matchup. Plus, can anyone really win in the Q? Only the Lakers have done that this season.

 

I'll buy that Orlando has a weak bench. But don't forget, they may get Jameer Nelson back and have both Alston and Nelson.

 

But, you must have a short memory. After an argument earlier this season, Boston themselves proved to you how effective Powe and Davis can be by whipping Cleveland's ass down low. If you're counting House out, you must think Boobie Gibson is the worst shooter in NBA history, because House is markedly better than Gibson. And Starberry is technically an unknown commodity but who knows how huge he can be off that bench. The guy averages something like 20 ppg in his career.

 

You're looking to the last Orlando win as a reference of how good our defense can be? Really? They gave up 93 and won by only four points. Judging SOLELY that by game alone, and the fact that Orlando absolutely CREAMED us in their place the one time we played there, I'd put money on them winning a seven game series.

 

You just answered your own question regarding home court. Yes, someone can beat us at the Q. The Lakers can. And they did. That's the worry. Can we beat THEM ANYWHERE is question. We haven't beaten them once this year.

 

There is a reason we didn't play great defense any time we played the Lakers or Orlando.

 

I don't mean to rain on the parade, but these are legit concerns.

[Guest Masters]

I'll buy that Orlando has a weak bench. But don't forget, they may get Jameer Nelson back and have both Alston and Nelson.

 

But, you must have a short memory. After an argument earlier this season, Boston themselves proved to you how effective Powe and Davis can be by whipping Cleveland's ass down low. If you're counting House out, you must think Boobie Gibson is the worst shooter in NBA history, because House is markedly better than Gibson. And Starberry is technically an unknown commodity but who knows how huge he can be off that bench. The guy averages something like 20 ppg in his career.

 

You're looking to the last Orlando win as a reference of how good our defense can be? Really? They gave up 93 and won by only four points. Judging SOLELY that by game alone, and the fact that Orlando absolutely CREAMED us in their place the one time we played there, I'd put money on them winning a seven game series.

 

You just answered your own question regarding home court. Yes, someone can beat us at the Q. The Lakers can. And they did. That's the worry. Can we beat THEM ANYWHERE is question. We haven't beaten them once this year.

 

There is a reason we didn't play great defense any time we played the Lakers or Orlando.

 

I don't mean to rain on the parade, but these are legit concerns.

 

I'll start at the end. Sure there are legit concerns. But that is the case of all the top teams going into the playoffs.

 

If you watched those games and think those teams O had anything to do with the bad D, you watched a different game. All those games were filled with metal errors and lazy play. Along with mix and match lineups, and guys just coming back off of injuries.

 

Yes the Lakers can beat CLE in the Q. And CLE can beat them for 6 straight in both place before this season. That includes a CLE team last year w/o Mo, but the Lakers having Gasol, Kobe, and Odom (who always falls apart in the playoffs). I stand behind the regular season not meaning a thing. We are not talking about a 7 game series. CLE track record with BOS is more of any type of indication. By that I mean last years playoffs where neither team could win on the others court.

 

On to ORL. Where you got Nelson might be playing in the playoffs I have no idea. Nelson had season ending shoulder surgery over a month ago. He's done until camp next year. In the last game (where CLE actually had everyone, minus Ben) where ORL played w/o Nelson this time (I have said the loss of him is the end of that team before), CLE won in ORL. The final score is meaningless. It was a road win against that team. One in which the "ever soft" CLE interior play held Howard to 13 points and 15 boards, and out rebounded ORL as a team. When CLE's focus is sharp on D, they are the top dog right now, just like they were early in the season. Throw in holding ORL to 46% from the field and 10 points under their average.

 

On to BOS. I have pointed out previously in that game CLE played like garbage on D. That trash play made Powe and Davis look like all-stars. How did those guys do when BOS faced ORL 2 days later? How have those guys really been doing while KG was out? Oh yes, BOS is 7-5 since they beat CLE. Including getting beat by the Bulls and MIA. Those two guys for BOS are not going to give them anything close to that over a 7 game series. House and Boobie are a wash. Over the last 3 season their stats are identical. Over the last month they are on the same pace and play. With the difference being House taking more shots. Starberry is a crap shoot. He can score. But history tells you the guy will shoot, shoot, shoot, and the O will stall with him running it. Plus we are still talking about a guy who also hasn't played much in the last year plus. Starberry might end up like Cassel last season and not even see the floor in the playoffs.

 

The concern about CLE D to me is always focus. Lebron and Coach Brown will not let that focus lapse during a 7 game series like it did in an individual game here and there. CLE doesn't lead the league in wins, holding teams to the lowest points per game in the NBA, holding teams to the 2nd lowest FG% in the NBA, holding teams to the lowest 3pt FG%, holding teams to the 4th lowest REB total, 5th lowest assist total for opposing teams, and top 5 in fewest TO a game (ORL, BOS, and LAL, all turn the ball over at minimum +1 more than the Cavs) by accident. What they have done over the course of the total of the games tells you more about the team than a hand full of individual games that come between moving city to city, hotel to hotel, etc.

 

By the logic that regular season games mean something, the Lakers should fear the Bobcats and ATL.

[DTBH]

Yes the Lakers can beat CLE in the Q. And CLE can beat them for 6 straight in both place before this season. That includes a CLE team last year w/o Mo, but the Lakers having Gasol, Kobe, and Odom (who always falls apart in the playoffs). I stand behind the regular season not meaning a thing. We are not talking about a 7 game series. CLE track record with BOS is more of any type of indication. By that I mean last years playoffs where neither team could win on the others court.

 

What happened last season doesn't matter. They're both new teams this year. I happen to think LA grew a ton from last year's experience against Boston, which is evidenced by them beating us twice AND beating Boston twice this year, including a back to back roadie against both. That suggests that when they play at their peak, they're better than both teams. You're putting your eggs in the "Cleveland didn't play as well those games." I think that's wishful thinking. I'm putting my eggs in the Lakers have just lost a few games for lack of consistency this year.

 

On to ORL. Where you got Nelson might be playing in the playoffs I have no idea. Nelson had season ending shoulder surgery over a month ago. He's done until camp next year. In the last game (where CLE actually had everyone, minus Ben) where ORL played w/o Nelson this time (I have said the loss of him is the end of that team before), CLE won in ORL. The final score is meaningless. It was a road win against that team. One in which the "ever soft" CLE interior play held Howard to 13 points and 15 boards, and out rebounded ORL as a team. When CLE's focus is sharp on D, they are the top dog right now, just like they were early in the season. Throw in holding ORL to 46% from the field and 10 points under their average.

 

Orlando won in Orlando via blowout, Cleveland won in Cleveland via a very tight game. Cleveland never won in Orlando this year. Yes they held Howard down, but that obviously helped free up some other players like Alston who had a really good game. But -- I do remember see Z get physical with Howard that game, I'll give him credit for that. But overall, I think you're still using wishful thinking and not being realistic. Maybe I'm not.

 

On to BOS. I have pointed out previously in that game CLE played like garbage on D. That trash play made Powe and Davis look like all-stars. How did those guys do when BOS faced ORL 2 days later? How have those guys really been doing while KG was out? Oh yes, BOS is 7-5 since they beat CLE. Including getting beat by the Bulls and MIA. Those two guys for BOS are not going to give them anything close to that over a 7 game series. House and Boobie are a wash. Over the last 3 season their stats are identical. Over the last month they are on the same pace and play. With the difference being House taking more shots. Starberry is a crap shoot. He can score. But history tells you the guy will shoot, shoot, shoot, and the O will stall with him running it. Plus we are still talking about a guy who also hasn't played much in the last year plus. Starberry might end up like Cassel last season and not even see the floor in the playoffs.

 

Again, you're puting your eggs in the "Cleveland didn't play up to potential" basket. And I don't care what these teams did against other teams. I care how they match-up against eachother. Right now, the match-ups are favoring Cleveland's opponents.

 

The concern about CLE D to me is always focus. Lebron and Coach Brown will not let that focus lapse during a 7 game series like it did in an individual game here and there. CLE doesn't lead the league in wins, holding teams to the lowest points per game in the NBA, holding teams to the 2nd lowest FG% in the NBA, holding teams to the lowest 3pt FG%, holding teams to the 4th lowest REB total, 5th lowest assist total for opposing teams, and top 5 in fewest TO a game (ORL, BOS, and LAL, all turn the ball over at minimum +1 more than the Cavs) by accident. What they have done over the course of the total of the games tells you more about the team than a hand full of individual games that come between moving city to city, hotel to hotel, etc.

 

So you really think the reason Cleveland's defense has struggled against the Lakers and Magic is because of lack of focus? You really think they have all their focus for games against the scrub teams, but when it comes to important games against playoff preview teams, they don't care and lose focus? God Bless You, and I hope you're right. Because all this "they didn't play up to potential" and "they didn't try their hardest" crap won't work in the playoffs.

 

By the logic that regular season games mean something, the Lakers should fear the Bobcats and ATL.

 

It's FAR more realistic to say the Lakers lacked focus against teams like the Bobcats or the Hawks than it is to say the Cavs lacked focus against their three most important playoff opponents and teams they're battling for seeding.

[Guest Masters]

What happened last season doesn't matter. They're both new teams this year. I happen to think LA grew a ton from last year's experience against Boston, which is evidenced by them beating us twice AND beating Boston twice this year, including a back to back roadie against both. That suggests that when they play at their peak, they're better than both teams. You're putting your eggs in the "Cleveland didn't play as well those games." I think that's wishful thinking. I'm putting my eggs in the Lakers have just lost a few games for lack of consistency this year.

 

It maters just much. LAL are no different than last year, other than Gasol having more time in LA. He is still soft inside. Right here you state when LA plays at it's peak, but CLE certainly didn't play at their peak in either matchup this season against LA. The home loss to LA last month had CLE still w/o West (whose individual D on the perimiter is huge), and Smith was not on the roster. The loss in LA had no West or Z in the line up. Does that really sound like CLE playing at their peak?

 

The Lakers have to count on Odom and other band of guys to play at a high level in a 7 game series. Odom has shown time and again he won't. I wouldn't count on those others either.

 

Orlando won in Orlando via blowout, Cleveland won in Cleveland via a very tight game. Cleveland never won in Orlando this year. Yes they held Howard down, but that obviously helped free up some other players like Alston who had a really good game. But -- I do remember see Z get physical with Howard that game, I'll give him credit for that. But overall, I think you're still using wishful thinking and not being realistic. Maybe I'm not.

 

Since when is a 10pt victory a blow out? Again that game was w/o Z, West, or the addition of Smith. While ORL still had Nelson. In that last match up, Alston shot for 50% (10 points over his career average). I wouldn't count on that in a 7 game series. Meanwhile Mo went 9-20 and Z 3-10. Neither of which are what they'll do over 7 games.

 

Again, you're puting your eggs in the "Cleveland didn't play up to potential" basket. And I don't care what these teams did against other teams. I care how they match-up against eachother. Right now, the match-ups are favoring Cleveland's opponents.

 

You care about how they matchup against these teams, yet are putting your eggs in the basket of how CLE did against these teams when the matchups were not the same as they will be in the playoffs. I care how they will matchup now, in a 7 game series. Not one night during the course of an 82 game season, with a different roster suiting up.

 

So you really think the reason Cleveland's defense has struggled against the Lakers and Magic is because of lack of focus? You really think they have all their focus for games against the scrub teams, but when it comes to important games against playoff preview teams, they don't care and lose focus? God Bless You, and I hope you're right. Because all this "they didn't play up to potential" and "they didn't try their hardest" crap won't work in the playoffs.

 

Each time there were those games, agaisnt tougher teams, CLE couldn't put 4 quarters of solid D together, while missing Z and West. When you are missing a 7 footer and your best perimeter defender against top teams, yeah, your gonna have a lot of D lapses.

 

It's FAR more realistic to say the Lakers lacked focus against teams like the Bobcats or the Hawks than it is to say the Cavs lacked focus against their three most important playoff opponents and teams they're battling for seeding.

 

Yet CLE beat the teams they should beat and lead the seeding battle. All while playing chunks of the season w/ multiple starers out of the lineup. All of whom (minus maybe Ben) today would be playing in the playoffs, in a 7 game series, w/ home court advantage, against those teams. Not to mention it doesn't say a lot about the Lakers that when the pressure is now on every night (if you want home court) they have lapses. Sounds like the same Lakers that lost to BOS last year in the finals. When the pressure was on, they folded. Just like every past Kobe led Laker team.

[Guest Masters]

I'd also remind you that in the loss to BOS earlier this month, aside from CLE allowing Powe and Davis to have career nights, James went 5-15 from the field and 9-12 from the line. I'll guarantee he doesn't do that in more than one game in a 7 game playoff series. I'll also guarantee CLE doesn't let BOS shoot 54% from the field for 7 games.

[Guest Masters]

And if regular season matchups mean so much, why didn't CLE win the NBA title in 2007? CLE was 2-0 against SA that season (just like LAL are w/ the Cavs this season).

[Canton Mike]

And if regular season matchups mean so much, why didn't CLE win the NBA title in 2007? CLE was 2-0 against SA that season (just like LAL are w/ the Cavs this season).

 

YEP! The regular season records CAN & often DO provide motivation in the playoffs!

GO CAVS!!

Mike

 

[Guest Masters]

YEP! The regular season records CAN & often DO provide motivation in the playoffs!

GO CAVS!!

Mike

 

It certainly can. Though that can swing both ways for teams. I would put more salt to that type of thing then how a team did in a season series. Season series are not the same as a 7 game series against a team. That becomes a game of matchups and adjustments each game.

[Riffer X]

Good read guys

[Guest Masters]

It's FAR more realistic to say the Lakers lacked focus against teams like the Bobcats or the Hawks than it is to say the Cavs lacked focus against their three most important playoff opponents and teams they're battling for seeding.

 

LAL just lost that focus for back to back games all while battling for seeding (against what should be inferior competition for them).

 

The loss today was against the Bobcats. Good thing the Lakers don't have to match up with them in the playoffs. They have now lost to them twice this season, both at home and on the road. Since the Lakers are 2-0 against the Cavs this year, and the Bobcats are 2-0 against the LAL (and won 6 out of their last 7 against LAL), then the Cavs should fear the Bobcats if they squeek into the 8th seed

[DTBH]

LAL just lost that focus for back to back games all while battling for seeding (against what should be inferior competition for them).

 

The loss today was against the Bobcats. Good thing the Lakers don't have to match up with them in the playoffs. They have now lost to them twice this season, both at home and on the road. Since the Lakers are 2-0 against the Cavs this year, and the Bobcats are 2-0 against the LAL (and won 6 out of their last 7 against LAL), then the Cavs should fear the Bobcats if they squeek into the 8th seed

 

That loss against the Bobcats certainly gives your argument more credence than mine. I'm still more concerned about head to head match-ups than trying to make a comparison based on how they play against other teams, but I guess that's where we'll agree to disagree. You can absolutely say that by that by that wisdom the Lakers would have to worry about the Bobcats in the playoffs, and roll your eyes at it. But, you'd be suprised to find a few analysts picking the Bobcats to give the Lakers a run for their money in that series. And you know what they'd site for a reason? Match-ups.

 

I'll say this much with conviction: I'm very eagerly awaiting tomorrow night's match-up in Orlando. On the second night of a back-to-back, on the road, traveling from Washington to Orlando. If they win tomorrow night, it's going to do wonders for my confidence going into the playoffs against all three elite opponents. Despite a loss last night, Orlando has been playing well so I will have no reason to believe the Cavs aren't the clear cut better team if they win tomorrow night, based off both overall record and a 2-1 vs. Magic record.

 

But, if the Magic win convincingly, it's going to make the concerns more legit.

 

I certainly hope they win tomorrow night, prove me wrong, and you right. Or even in the playoffs. I'll be glad to eat my words.

[Guest Masters]

I don't disagree with you on the principle of looking at matchups. Just how you look at the matchups. You are putting to much stock, imo, on how a team does against another during the regular season. The regular season really doesn't tell you much about a matchup with a team. It's one game, then you are off to another city and another team. The real question to me is how does a team match up in a 7 game series. Right now, I don't see a team matching up well with CLE in 7 games, with CLE having the home court. LAL winning that one game at the Q and going 2-0 is as meaningful as CLE going 2-0 against the SAS in 2007.

 

The LAL are soft and Odom folds come playoffs. Kobe will have to carry that team, and he can't in a 7 game series. I am not even sure LAL win the west and even go to the finals. I think DEN and SAS will give them fits in the playoffs.

[DTBH]

I'll say this much with conviction: I'm very eagerly awaiting tomorrow night's match-up in Orlando. On the second night of a back-to-back, on the road, traveling from Washington to Orlando. If they win tomorrow night, it's going to do wonders for my confidence going into the playoffs against all three elite opponents. Despite a loss last night, Orlando has been playing well so I will have no reason to believe the Cavs aren't the clear cut better team if they win tomorrow night, based off both overall record and a 2-1 vs. Magic record.

 

But, if the Magic win convincingly, it's going to make the concerns more legit.

 

I certainly hope they win tomorrow night, prove me wrong, and you right. Or even in the playoffs. I'll be glad to eat my words.

 

Well...

 

I'm still worried.

 

[Guest Masters]

Well...

 

I'm still worried.

 

I'm not in a 7 game series. ORL will not shoot 54% and CLE will not shoot 37% over the course of a 7 game series. I'd be surprised if there was even one game in a 7 game series like last nights game. Playoffs and 7 game series are a different animal.

 

I will say ORL is the real threat in the east and by no means would it be an easy series for either team. It will likely go 7.

 

But one thing CLE did last night that they cannot do in a playoff game is get their heads so out of the game. CLE played sluggesh and poor last night when they weren't getting the calls early (pretty much after James got T'd up). CLE then started getting slow and lazy on their defensive rotations, getting back on D, and on O. That was a total garbage game CLE played last night, and the players should certainly feel embarassed by their showing. This has been the case in many of their losses, and just about every against the other top teams in the NBA. I do worry if this team is mentally strong enough.

 

 

They had a chance to send a message and failed to do so.