Keep Pettine in Place at Least 1 More Year

[ATENEARS]

Pettine is a Pee Wee Football coach. He has no leadership. He hasn't come close to "coaching-up" a single position let alone player. He is a confidence killer and anti-motivator. He is the worst coach we have had here among a list of weak coaches ... except for maybe Robiskie, that guy was an idiot.

 

Farmer hasn't done a good job, but what players Farmer has brought in, Pettine mis-managed them and certainly did not grow them or coach them to any success.

 

Stop with the "stand-up guy" bullshit. He's an ambulance chaser. He attempts to try to address things after it is already a fiasco, try preventing the meltdowns in the first place, now that would be coaching.

 

Haslem ought to fire the guy tonight, just for his mismanagement of Manziel alone. Haslem ought to bitch-slap Pettine's bald head at a press conference and send the Uncle Fester P.O.S. packing.

 

 

I don't want to see Pettine fired after this season. I think he's a stand-up guy and I think the players respect him and want to play for him. I feel he's the least to blame for this dismal season and deserves a shot to right-the-ship.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Pettine is a Pee Wee Football coach. He has no leadership. He hasn't come close to "coaching-up" a single position let alone player. He is a confidence killer and anti-motivator. He is the worst coach we have had here among a list of weak coaches ... except for maybe Robiskie, that guy was an idiot.

 

Farmer hasn't done a good job, but what players Farmer has brought in, Pettine mis-managed them and certain did not grow them or coach them to any success.

 

Stop with the "stand-up guy" bullshit. He's an ambulance chaser. He attempts to ry address things after it is already a fiasco, try preventing the meltdowns in the first place, now that would be coaching.

 

Haslem ought to fire the guy tonight, just for his mismanagement of Manziel alone. Haslem ought to bitch-slap Pettine's bald head at a press conference and send the Uncle Fester P.O.S. packing.

 

 

Agree bro.

[Tour2ma]

What was the quitter count today? Haven't seen a tally published yet by the Pet haters.

[bbedward]

I think the handling of Manziel was appropriate by Pettine, sounds like he had the support of the locker room too.

 

And if you think Manziel is a stud franchise QB (obviously annointing him after 1 game is crazy) - then I'd say he "coached-up" Manziel pretty well.

[aggressor]

So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?

 

Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.

 

What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.

 

Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.

 

If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.

[jiggins7919]

I'm not against keeping Pettine. My main thing is I'd possibly like another defensive coordinator, an offensive line coach, and MOST DEFINITELY a new GM.

 

The team hasn't quit, and while I know they are professionals, it's still impressive to see such a fired up effort. We looked disciplined, motivated, and in total control. What this team needs is massive loads of talent. For instance, Mike Pettine gets Danny Shelton and Cameron Erving in the first round. Shelton apparently grades out as "pretty decent", although I don't see any eye-popping plays. But Erving....my god. I want so much for him to succeed, and I'm searching for every excuse in the book, but Erving is flat out getting his ass blown apart on virtually every play. I mean, on those two FG's I thought I was watching a fight scene from "The Matrix". Erving just kept flying backwards in air. I know he's a rookie, but from what I understand, the FG blocking unit isn't exactly the most difficult assignment in football. I admit I personally don't know a lot about it, but the kid is getting his ass whipped. And it's really bad.

 

So Pettine gets two first round picks that are once again not difference makers. Awesome. I realize that not all rookies will be amazing right away, and that it takes more than one season to declare someone a bust. I'm not saying Shelton and Erving are worthless, but GOD FORBID we have a first rounder that comes in and makes a damn splash. Oh, and Farmer...thanks for the WR's in the offseason! The additions of Bowe and Mayle sure helped. *groan*

 

Pettine is a young coach, and he's certainly not blowing me away, but perhaps he needs time to learn his craft. I admit, the clock management issues he has drives me INSANE. I also admit I think Pettine screwed up by not playing Manziel directly after we beat the Titans. I believe Pettine screwed up BIG TIME with that, and he played McCown because he wanted as many wins as possible to save his job. I get it, but it actually might COST him his job. Four games at the end of the season is NOT enough to know what we have with Johnny, and what's worse, we play three REALLY good teams to finish the season, and two of those on the road. Not very easy to assess Manziel with these three games when he's playing with practice squad WR's.

[bbedward]

We lost almost every game with pretty good QB play.

 

The Tennessee game was a solid performance (excellent performance by our defense and ST - we battered the hell out of Mariotta). But outside of the 2 bombs I wouldn't call it "tearing it up"

 

I want him to succeed and he's made huge progress over last year for sure, but all Pettine has done is hold him accountable for his actions. Manziel is probably better off for it...

 

McCown was playing most games well enough to win, he was the starter. Of course Pettine wasn't going to bench him (You don't bench a starter who's playing good ball, right?)

 

When it was obvious we were out of contention, he gave Johnny the keys for the rest of the season (as to be expected) - then Manziel boozed up with champagne and lied to his coaches, told his friends to lie for him. Not good!

 

Seems to me Pettine has been concerned with both Johnny "the person" and Johnny "the player" Not sure why people bitch about that. It's not like Johnny earned any right to start 2015 last year, as he was the worst quarterback we had on the roster last year by far.

[miktoxic]

So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?

 

Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.

 

What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.

 

Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.

 

If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.

 

wow. you are an idiot.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

The only thing I've really had a problem with with Pettine was his insistence that the team was giving maximum effort during games where they were destroyed on the field. That's a shit attitude and a loser mentality. No accountability for what went wrong... And that's a general sentiment that comes from this coaching staff. They keep talking as though everything is good and that only minor adjustments need happen. It's obvious that more is needed. Clock management too, I guess has been an issue.

 

But aside from that, I like Pettine. He's had a rough go this season with his defensive backfield (what should be a significant strength of this team) getting hurt and underperforming. I have to think that the team would look a whole lot different if that one aspect didn't fail us this year.

 

I think Pettine has respect in the room and I believe given a better roster, he'd have the ability to coach this team to a respectable record. When he keeps players on the bench, I trust he has reason to do so. I don't think it's a matter of vendettas and I don't think it's personal.

 

Keep him in place for another season. If you must, then change the management. But keep the coaching consistent. Get an offensive weapon or two and keep plugging away at defensive personnel. If we're patient with this crew, I'd be willing to bet we see a turnaround in Cleveland. If we start again, we're no better off.

[aggressor]

The issue is that "pretty good QB play" with the talent on the Browns' offense is going to result in a lot of losses, which is exactly what happened. Johnny is a playmaker, that is the catalyst the Browns needed and that is why 2 of the 3 W's came in Johnny's limited starts. In Johnny's 2 losses he also played pretty well and was plagued by drops from receivers, no run game, and a defense that was giving up a ton of points. Between those 2 losses he threw for 550+, 2 TD's and 1 pick. For the season he is completing over 60% with 6 TD's and 3 picks. That doesn't account for his ability to run which Pettine has clearly discouraged all year.

 

Pettine doesn't give a damn about Johnny the person and that is patently obvious. If he did then he wouldn't berate him in the press and throw him under the bus constantly while clearly encouraging others to join in on the fun. If he cared about him he would support him publicly and keep any discipline he had in mind in the locker room, that's what a professional does. Johnny's teammates have praised him this year but Pettine has stayed critical. Fortunately for Johnny he is confident enough in himself to deal with it but a lot of others would have crumbled having their HC regularly humiliate them with the press.

 

If you don't like Johnny and think Pettine is great, fine, I can understand that. Just don't try to come up with some BS that Pettine's "tough love" of Johnny is why he is successful. The truth is that if Pettine had managed Johnny differently the Browns probably have 3 more wins right now. Johnny has clearly been successful in spite of Pettine and not because of him. You can almost feel Pettine still cringe every time Johnny goes out of the pocket and makes a play because it doesn't fit within Pettine's ideal of QB's that stand like a statue waiting to be pummeled behind the lack of an OL and running game.

[miktoxic]

If you don't like Johnny and think Pettine is great, fine, I can understand that. Just don't try to come up with some BS that Pettine's "tough love" of Johnny is why he is successful.

 

who here has argued that? point it out to me cuz i'm missing something.

 

we've heard every possible scenario about manziel from the point from which he was drafted until now by both the manziel tuggers and the manziel haters. nothing new you are bringing to the table with your first 5 posts.

 

(welcome, btw )

[ATENEARS]

So what Manziel showed up in an 8 second video, whooping it up with friends with a bottle of Champagne in his hand during a weekend off during Bye week? Seriously? So what? You mean to tell me that Pettine and the Browns organization couldn't have handled that internally, and made it into a teachable moment without going Nationally with it and setting back player/team/franchise goals?

 

Wait ... you mean to tell me that some of you are chalking the whole "Bye Week Loss" up as a notch for keeping Pettine? Good grief ... the guy is a pee wee coach and ambulance chaser.

 

Champagne??? Please ... chicks drink champagne, not alcoholics. That was a non-story that the Browns made Mary Kay Cabot into the next Martin Bashir.

 

Pettine and Manziel can't both stay ... who's your pick?

[miktoxic]

if manziel handled his off the field like some of the people he looks up to (lebron) we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

hell everyone in the baseball world loved derek jeter but he prob did worse than johnny on most nights. he just kept everything in his 'house'. no phones, no shoes and sign an agreement. on your way out there's your gift bag with a bathrobe, towel and some cookies.

[ATENEARS]

if manziel handled his off the field like some of the people he looks up to (lebron) we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

hell everyone in the baseball world loved derek jeter but he prob did worse than johnny on most nights. he just kept everything in his 'house'. no phones, no shoes and sign an agreement. on your way out there's your gift bag with a bathrobe, towel and some cookies.

 

The difference is that most other multi-million dollar entities keep such issues "in-house". When Delonte West banged LeBron's Mom, it wasn't fed and fueled to Mary Kay or made into a notch on the coaches belt.

 

The late 80's Pistons were full of characters, but they had a system in place, a coach that was a father figure and leaders that kept the group tight and focused.

 

This job that Pettine has done this season is a fiasco by any comparison. Add in his chess match with players, his clock management and his loser mentality and it spells bye-bye to me. He should be shown the door.

[aggressor]

 

who here has argued that? point it out to me cuz i'm missing something.

 

we've heard every possible scenario about manziel from the point from which he was drafted until now by both the manziel tuggers and the manziel haters. nothing new you are bringing to the table with your first 5 posts.

 

(welcome, btw )

There are multiple posts since the game yesterday that are pointing to how Pettine's handling of Manziel has been great and has some bearing on how Manziel has performed. There are also posts about how Pettine cares about Manziel.

 

Johnny is no saint and he has created many of his own problems. That said, Pettine's choice of using the media to berate Manziel is unprofessional and illogical. Keep things in house and be supportive in public or just don't comment. Johnny for all his immaturity has been able to do that, why is it so hard for his coach? There have never even been leaks from Johnny or his supporters that condone his actions or tell his side of the story. The list of successful NFL QB's that liked to party a bit (or worse) is long and distinguished. Pettine seems to take real issue with the attention that Johnny gets and clearly doesn't like having a guy that is a magnet for attention as his QB. You don't have to be a hermit to be a successful NFL QB.

[miktoxic]

 

The difference is that most other multi-million dollar entities keep such issues "in-house". When Delonte West banged LeBron's Mom, it wasn't fed and fueled to Mary Kay or made into a notch on the coaches belt.

 

The late 80's Pistons were full of characters, but they had a system in place, a coach that was a father figure and leaders that kept the group tight and focused.

 

This job that Pettine has done this season is a fiasco by any comparison. Add in his chess match with players, his clock management and his loser mentality and it spells bye-bye to me. He should be shown the door.

man i wish i still lived in ohio cuz we'd have some serious talks!!!

 

only thing is stan, we've done the old show the guy the door how many times now? and it just keeps resulting in the same old shit. why not try something new? like keep the guy on for the extent of his contract? at the end of that (next year i'm guessing) if it still looks like doo doo i'll be the first to tell pettine to hit the bricks.

[miktoxic]

There are multiple posts since the game yesterday that are pointing to how Pettine's handling of Manziel has been great and has some bearing on how Manziel has performed. There are also posts about how Pettine cares about Manziel.

 

Johnny is no saint and he has created many of his own problems. That said, Pettine's choice of using the media to berate Manziel is unprofessional and illogical. Keep things in house and be supportive in public or just don't comment. Johnny for all his immaturity has been able to do that, why is it so hard for his coach? There have never even been leaks from Johnny or his supporters that condone his actions or tell his side of the story. The list of successful NFL QB's that liked to party a bit (or worse) is long and distinguished. Pettine seems to take real issue with the attention that Johnny gets and clearly doesn't like having a guy that is a magnet for attention as his QB. You don't have to be a hermit to be a successful NFL QB.

 

so you have proof that pettine is sabotaging manziel's career by leaking info to the press? i don't think he has to leak shit. they ask him a question and he answers. media: "coach, how are you handling your dumbass QB?" pettine: "as if he were a dumbass",

 

the guy was handed the manziel deck which i'm sure no one wanted to be dealt but now he is the monster that has held back johnny....

 

GTFO.

[calfoxwc]

I don't think it's anybody's fault for JM being the talk of the media, and in the limelight,

etc etc etc...

 

except only for himself. Pettine just has to deal honestly with it, and that's what they are doing.

 

The media, especially in Cleveland, already has plenty of stories and guesses, etc.

 

It's a good thing to just deal with it when asked, because it's already there, bigtime.

[aggressor]

 

so you have proof that pettine is sabotaging manziel's career by leaking info to the press? i don't think he has to leak shit. they ask him a question and he answers. media: "coach, how are you handling your dumbass QB?" pettine: "as if he were a dumbass",

 

the guy was handed the manziel deck which i'm sure no one wanted to be dealt but now he is the monster that has held back johnny....

 

GTFO.

Pettine has never hesitated to criticize Johnny and talk about him personally. He was the one that talked about the "deeper issues" that Johnny has without providing detail. He is the one that talked about how he holds his QB's to a higher standard than all other players. He is the one who speaks vaguely about Johnny's maturity and off the field issues and allowing the press to make up whatever they wanted. Is it so damn hard to say "those are issues between me and Johnny and we are working through them" or just "no comment"? Did Pettine "leak" details or what it someone else in the Browns organization? Have no idea and it doesn't matter. My issue is with what Pettine has done in public.

[Tour2ma]

If Johnny has been everything his supporters say he is all along, then Pet has disciplined him for his benefit/growth at a cost to the team and to the detriment of Pet's very job security.

 

I don't think there is any doubt that Pet's handling of Manziel has contributed to JM's improvement... to his maturation. Call it tough love, if you like, but it got JM's attention. When you deal with aberrant behavior, it sometimes takes negative reinforcement to create an opening. Then it is what you make of that opening.

 

Even more credit flows to Flip and O'Connell, but remember, Pet hired them.

 

Seems to me Pettine has been concerned with both Johnny "the person" and Johnny "the player" Not sure why people bitch about that. It's not like Johnny earned any right to start 2015 last year, as he was the worst quarterback we had on the roster last year by far.

Typically concise, on-point, bb summary... edited only for space.

 

The issue is that...

... the world does not revolve around Johnny anymore.

 

If you do nothing else, please work to understand that Pet's issues with bailing out of the pocket come only after missing pass opportunities. It happened repeatedly in the TN game; it happened once we know of (so far) vs. SF.

 

So what Manziel showed up in an 8 second video, whooping it up with friends with a bottle of Champagne in his hand during a weekend off during Bye week? Seriously? So what? You mean to tell me that Pettine and the Browns organization couldn't have handled that internally, and made it into a teachable moment without going Nationally with it and setting back player/team/franchise goals?

 

Pettine and Manziel can't both stay ... who's your pick?

False choice... and a total lack of understanding of what the "public demotion" was about.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

So what Manziel showed up in an 8 second video, whooping it up with friends with a bottle of Champagne in his hand during a weekend off during Bye week? Seriously? So what? You mean to tell me that Pettine and the Browns organization couldn't have handled that internally, and made it into a teachable moment without going Nationally with it and setting back player/team/franchise goals?

 

Wait ... you mean to tell me that some of you are chalking the whole "Bye Week Loss" up as a notch for keeping Pettine? Good grief ... the guy is a pee wee coach and ambulance chaser.

 

Champagne??? Please ... chicks drink champagne, not alcoholics. That was a non-story that the Browns made Mary Kay Cabot into the next Martin Bashir.

 

Pettine and Manziel can't both stay ... who's your pick?

 

MANZIEL!

[aggressor]

If Johnny has been everything his supporters say he is all along, then Pet has disciplined him for his benefit/growth at a cost to the team and to the detriment of Pet's very job security.

 

I don't think there is any doubt that Pet's handling of Manziel has contributed to JM's improvement... to his maturation. Call it tough love, if you like, but it got JM's attention. When you deal with aberrant behavior, it sometimes takes negative reinforcement to create an opening. Then it is what you make of that opening.

 

Even more credit flows to Flip and O'Connell, but remember, Pet hired them.

 

 

Typically concise, on-point, bb summary... edited only for space.

 

 

... the world does not revolve around Johnny anymore.

 

If you do nothing else, please work to understand that Pet's issues with bailing out of the pocket come only after missing pass opportunities. It happened repeatedly in the TN game; it happened once we know of (so far) vs. SF.

 

 

False choice... and a total lack of understanding of what the "public demotion" was about.

That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.

 

You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.

[MedinaDawg]

So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?

 

Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.

 

What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.

 

Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.

 

If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.

 

Wow, some people just don't get it. Manziel is an alcoholic. Big deal, he never tested positive for drugs, alcohol is his drug of choice!...he's addicted to alcohol. Alcoholism destroys lives, families, careers. I'd much rather see this guy smoke a joint rather than drink alcohol. He's got talent, lot's of it, but brain surgeons with a lot of talent have had their careers destroyed by alcohol. I know a neurosurgeon who's career was destroyed by alcohol. Wake up!....he's not ocassionally hitting a bong, he's out of control with alcohol. Alcoholics, almost always, have to hit rock bottom before they get serious about tackling their disease. Being named a starter, being handed million of dollars is not rock bottom. Alcoholism is a disease! Smoking a joint isn't (not that I would advocate any drug usage). To say it's OK for an alcoholic to go out and have a few drinks is insane. What do you think he spent time in rehab for? Do you think they cured and incurable disease? To say it's OK since he hasn't been arrested is frickin' nuts!!! Unfortunately, he won't be tested for alcoholl until he is suspended by the league, just like Josh Gordon. At that point there will be zero-tolerence. You are out of your mind.

[aggressor]

 

Wow, some people just don't get it. Manziel is an alcoholic. Big deal, he never tested positive for drugs, alcohol is his drug of choice!...he's addicted to alcohol. Alcoholism destroys lives, families, careers. I'd much rather see him smoke a joint rather than drink alcohol. He got talent, lot's of it, but brain surgeons with a lot of talent have had their careers destroyed by alcohol. I know a neurosurgeon who's career was destroyed by alcohol. Wake up!....he's not ocassionally hitting a bong, he's out of control with alcohol. Alcoholics, almost always, have to hit rock bottom before they get serious about tackling their disease. Being named a starter, being handed million of dollars is not rock bottom. Alcoholism is a disease! Smoking a joint isn't (not that I would advocate any drug usage). To say it's OK for an alcoholic to go out and have a few drinks is insane. To say it's OK since he hasn't been arrested is frickin' nuts!!! You are out of your mind.

Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.

 

Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.

[MedinaDawg]

Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.

 

Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.

 

Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.

[Tour2ma]

That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman.

I rest my case...

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.

I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he will.

[MedinaDawg]

I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he w

 

And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.

[Kvoethe]

Im afraid to open a link after that Dallas 2nd round pick thread lol.

[ATENEARS]

If Pettine didn't run such a loose ship in the first place, players wouldn't be treating the franchise with such little respect. Manziel had no leadership to follow or that checked him at the door in the first place, but then here comes the ambulance chaser to save the day under the National spotlight. Pettine is a pansey. The suspension after the Bye Week was stupid. This guy had no vision for the team from start to finish and threw darts at s board as to how to handle adversity. He shits his pants on the fly because he has established no structure or vision in Berea or in Game time situations. Coaches like him are a dime-a-dozen, start with your local pee wee league.