Know That There is a Real WR Problem?

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Tired of all the speculation about QBs. What is the solution at WR.

 

After Edwards there isn't much that is too impressive on the roster. Patton, Cribbs, Steptoe and Hubbard. then there's some guys like Leggett and Davale Ellis.

 

So, as much as we need to fix our defense, we can't win if we can't score.

 

IMO, we have a great need at WR and it has to be addressed at #5 or #36. Personally, I am for taking Crabtree at #5 and grab a OLB at #36. I think that is the best value for the picks and satisfy our two biggest needs.

 

The other option is taking OLB at #5, most has the choice as Orakpo then it would be necessary to look at guys like Robiskie, Iglesias, Britt or Derrick Williams. I think Heywood-Bey, Harvin and Nicks will be gone.

 

So, what makes the stronger team:

 

Crabtree and Barwin/English/Sintim

 

or

 

Orakpo and Robiskie/Iglesias/Britt/Williams

 

Other second round pick on a SS or Center. If we would sign Someone like Holt, then I could see RB coming into the equation.

 

Now, a lot can change in 3 weeks. We can trade down and get extra picks or trade a player and get additional picks. Personally, I would love to trade down but sometimes there just isn't a partner willing to trade up. So, as things are now, what do you think makes this team the strongest. Maybe you even have a better opinion for what picks we have.

[JewDago]

while the depth of the class at LB means there's going to be someone available at 36, i don't think there's going to be someone as talented as orakpo available then, and while there's not going to be someone as good as crabtree at that pick, there are other guys who can contribute in much the same role that crabtree would have with edwards also on the field, though they wouldn't have the same long-term potential to take over as a #1.

 

i'd like to see us take a look at ramses barden. he's got size and good hands, and while he's not going to run past anyone, that's not how the NFL works anymore. he's a huge target, can shield defenders away with his body and can use his height and leaping ability to compete for the ball at its highest point and can reach it in places that no one else can.

 

personally, as much as i hate to say it, i believe more in orakpo being an impact player. while everyone raves about crabtree, there are still questions about his ability to translate what he did in college to the NFL, while all orakpo really has to worry about are mild health concerns and playing with his hand up, which i think he'll be able to do.

 

there are WRs who we can get later who i like, but the only pass rushers i'm excited about are in the first round. the only scenario where we take crabtree where we'd also pick up a pass rusher i like is if the browns go after david veikune, a DE/OLB from hawai'i who i think is going to be a good pro. however, we haven't been looking at veikune. otherwise, this would be my preferred scenario.

[next2nothing]

I'm a defense minded guy so I share JewDago's opinion. The more I see of Orakpo, the more I'm liking him at #5.

 

It's safe to say our current team is still a long way away from being a Super Bowl contender, but what's been the main staple of Super Bowl winning teams recently? Great defense. Most of the SB winning teams in the past 10 years have had defenses in the top ten. Plus, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't Mangini prefer to run a dink and dump type passing attack?

 

I see nothing wrong with taking Crabtree at #5 if he's there and I'll trust the decision. I would just rather have us build up an elite defense.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

One of the reasons for my preference of Crabtree at #5 is Edwards's contract status. Crabtree can be a #1 receiver if Edwards leaves. I don't think some of those guys in the later rounds could be.

 

I do like some of the OLB products that could be available in round 2. I think Barwin, English and Sintim will all be very good, at least, as 3-4 OLBs.

 

Then, I have some doubts about Orakpo. His health and how he will perform standing up. I'd be more confortable with him if we were playing a 4-3. Orakpo could very well be a star in the 3-4 but I think Crabtree will be a bigger impact player and one of the above mentioned OLBs could be very close to what Orakpo would give the team.

 

Hey, JMO. I think about what defenses would have to do to cover Edwards and Crabtree on the outside and Patton or Cribbs in the slot and Harrison or Lewis in the backfield. Couldn't double both outsides without opening up the running game inside. If you bring 8 in the box to stop the run then one of the outside receivers will be in single coverage.

 

That's impact, can Orakpo change the way teams will attack us with their offense? Will they be able to stop the run? Can he apply enough pressure from the outside to change there passing game?

[YtownBrownsBacker]

I'm a defense minded guy so I share JewDago's opinion. The more I see of Orakpo, the more I'm liking him at #5.

 

It's safe to say our current team is still a long way away from being a Super Bowl contender, but what's been the main staple of Super Bowl winning teams recently? Great defense. Most of the SB winning teams in the past 10 years have had defenses in the top ten. Plus, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't Mangini prefer to run a dink and dump type passing attack?

 

I see nothing wrong with taking Crabtree at #5 if he's there and I'll trust the decision. I would just rather have us build up an elite defense.

 

Actually, if they were considering drafting a ILB that could shut down the running game I would be a little more excited. Edge rushers can be taken out of the game. I don't have anything against Orakpo, but we aren't strong enough up the middle for him to be an impact. By strength up the middle I mean, DT, ILB and SS.

 

Teams kill us up the middle so will OLB be that great of a difference maker.

[Oldcrow1945]

Actually, if they were considering drafting a ILB that could shut down the running game I would be a little more excited. Edge rushers can be taken out of the game. I don't have anything against Orakpo, but we aren't strong enough up the middle for him to be an impact. By strength up the middle I mean, DT, ILB and SS.

 

Teams kill us up the middle so will OLB be that great of a difference maker.

 

I know where you are coming from Ytown, but our inability to get to the QB was just awful and has to be addressed.

Pressure causes so many bad things to happen.

[JewDago]

One of the reasons for my preference of Crabtree at #5 is Edwards's contract status. Crabtree can be a #1 receiver if Edwards leaves. I don't think some of those guys in the later rounds could be.

while it's true that the later-round guys can't necessarily be true number one wideouts once BE leaves, i don't think we'd be drafting them with that in mind. what we need right now is a possession guy, and we can get a deep threat to compliment him in next year's draft. we also have the option of signing him to the high RFA tender next year, since it's looking like there won't be a new CBA and he'll only have five years of service, not the six necessary to be an unrestricted free agent.

 

I do like some of the OLB products that could be available in round 2. I think Barwin, English and Sintim will all be very good, at least, as 3-4 OLBs.

 

as far as barwin, english and sintim go, i think the only one out of the three who'll have success is english. sintim's the product of a system, and barwin, for all his hype and pure physical ability, still really has to learn to play defense and, in my opinion, doesn't have the strength to play either OLB or DE. he'll either enf up as a 4-3 LB or, and i think this the more likely scenario, he'll convert back to TE and be a good one. i don't see him playing defense for more than a season or two in the pros.

 

Then, I have some doubts about Orakpo. His health and how he will perform standing up. I'd be more confortable with him if we were playing a 4-3. Orakpo could very well be a star in the 3-4 but I think Crabtree will be a bigger impact player and one of the above mentioned OLBs could be very close to what Orakpo would give the team.

 

i think english could be as good as orakpo, but rak's really been growing on me. he's crazy strong, has a great initial burst, has played well against solid competition and is a high-motor, high-character guy. i'm not particularly worried about him playing with his hand up. he has all the physical tools to do it, and we'll be using a four-man line a lot of the time on passing downs, anyway. as far as the health debate, it's a worry with anyone. anyone can get hurt at any time. there are guys who were always healthy in college who went on to get injured every year in the pros, and there are guys who got hurt in college who went on to have productive pro careers. it's always a gamble.

 

Hey, JMO. I think about what defenses would have to do to cover Edwards and Crabtree on the outside and Patton or Cribbs in the slot and Harrison or Lewis in the backfield. Couldn't double both outsides without opening up the running game inside. If you bring 8 in the box to stop the run then one of the outside receivers will be in single coverage.

 

That's impact, can Orakpo change the way teams will attack us with their offense? Will they be able to stop the run? Can he apply enough pressure from the outside to change there passing game?

 

i like the offensive implications of having two viable guys up front. it's definitely an enticing idea, and it would be great to open up the running game because teams are afraid of us beating them deep with our two great wideouts. crabtree can change how defenses attack us, but i think orakpo can change how we attack offenses. i think he can get to the QB on his own. i think he can command double teams and open up the weak side for wimbley or alex hall. i think he can get past a tackle and force the QB to step up into the pocket where rogers will cream him, and i know he can hold up in the run game.

 

i think both guys will be good picks, and, at this point, the positions are pretty much equal in need. we don't really have anyone at WR or OLB aside from a one-year wonder at each position and a somewhat promising sophomore at OLB. getting the right guy at five this year will go a long way towards digging us out of the hole we're in right now. the most important thing, regardless of whom we draft, is to get a guy who can actually contribute instead of another bust.

[hoorta]

I'm a defense minded guy so I share JewDago's opinion. The more I see of Orakpo, the more I'm liking him at #5.

 

It's safe to say our current team is still a long way away from being a Super Bowl contender, but what's been the main staple of Super Bowl winning teams recently? Great defense. Most of the SB winning teams in the past 10 years have had defenses in the top ten. Plus, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't Mangini prefer to run a dink and dump type passing attack?

 

I see nothing wrong with taking Crabtree at #5 if he's there and I'll trust the decision. I would just rather have us build up an elite defense.

 

The lack of a decent pass rusher has to be addressed before we go shopping for a WR. The Browns were next to last in qb sacks- and that was having Rodgers do everything a NT is supposed to do. IMHO way easier to find decent wrs in the second round than elite pass rushers.

 

[YtownBrownsBacker]

You guys make some good points and I guess there isn't a right or wrong answer. We definately need to improve the pass rush, but we definately need to provide Quinn with enough weapons so he can succeed, if he is the man under center. It might come down to who the staff likes or thinks will be available in round two. There are enough WRs that someone good will still be there and I think there will be enough good OLBs when we pick in round two.

 

I guess it is going to come down to who they feel most comfortable with and who they feel will be available in round 2 that can have the biggest impact on our team.

 

 

[JewDago]

Mangini is going to be skeptical about taking a DE/OLB type after the Vhernon Gholston thing I think.

 

I don't have the answer as there's too many holes to fill right now. I think we have good talent developing in Beau Bell and Alex Hall, maybe even Wimbley. I THOUGHT Antwan Peek was going to work out for us but that didnt happen. I think we need a ILB eithr this year or next... Barton only has so much gas in the tank hopefully he can give us his solid golden years and solidify the LB core with his experience.

 

This is what I would LIKE to see for Manginis first year here... I am also hopeful and want a 7-9 season at WORST.

mangini won't be turned off by the idea of a de/olb because of gholston because you can't run a 3-4 without them. they're an extremely important part of the defense because they're the main pass rushers, and, without them, teams can throw the ball on you all day.

 

as for your 7-9 season at worst, look for the worst to likely be either a repeat of this year, though with more consistent performances, or worse than this year by a game. i think we'll have three to five wins this year and pick high again in 2010.

[Gips]

We have serious issues on both sides of the ball and will need to address both but first and foremost we have to develop a passrush and solidify our DE, LB corp to even hope to stay in any game this year..and yes we have a rock bottom WR corp and absolutely no idea who our qb is going to be..its a 2 way road and a bad offense makes bad things happen too...and defenses get tired from being on the field all day after repeated 3 and outs...

[pl4tinum]

Actually, if they were considering drafting a ILB that could shut down the running game I would be a little more excited.

 

I don't know if you're already forgetting, but last year I can't count the number of times we had teams in 3rd and long and gave up a 10+ yard passing play because the QB had ALL DAY to throw the ball.

 

As soon as it was 3rd and more than 5, we knew we were toast.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

as for your 7-9 season at worst, look for the worst to likely be either a repeat of this year, though with more consistent performances, or worse than this year by a game. i think we'll have three to five wins this year and pick high again in 2010.

 

That I can't agree with. You can't anticipate the injuries we had last year reaccurring. That was a major problem. This staff is addressing a lack of depth which was a major problem last year. I believe the team is already upgraded over last year and we haven't even seen the draft.

 

Man, you are tough on a team predicting a losing season when you don't even know what the team will look like as far as players and what the coaching staff will do by installing differenct offensive and defensive systems.

 

Also, our schedule is much easier. Maybe you need to take a few sleeping pills and wake up after the season and then you could say I told you so or sorry, my bad.

 

Don't know the roster. New coaches and a new system. And, failure is the prediction. So, you are saying the glass is half empty and it doesn't matter who the QB is or who we draft. Why make a case for Orakpo with such passion if you don't think it will help? Since we are definately going to suck, why not trade all our draft picks and gather a bunch for next year when we could try again.

 

I seem to remember a year ago this team was coming off a 10-6 season. I think Mangini took a losing team to a 10-6 season. A 1-15 team in 2007 went to the playoffs last year. I think they had fans like you predicting doom and gloom. I don't think we are going to the super bowl but it's real hard to predict anything without knowing who the players will be on the team.

 

So Chicken Little, why not at least wait till training camp starts before you start pissing on the team? You could really start ragging on them then.

[JewDago]

actually, this is when i'll be the most pessimistic. once i see the coaches actually start working with the players and hear that guys are improving and learn about the coaches' schemes, i'll have a little more faith. for now, though, we're doomed.

 

DOOMED!

[YtownBrownsBacker]

I don't know if you're already forgetting, but last year I can't count the number of times we had teams in 3rd and long and gave up a 10+ yard passing play because the QB had ALL DAY to throw the ball.

 

As soon as it was 3rd and more than 5, we knew we were toast.

 

Wouldn't you agree that some of that was the prevent scheme they deployed. I'm not saying we don't need a better pass rush but we do need to stop the run or their passing game won't matter. When you rush 3 and drop everybody else into coverage, like they were doing, there was no chance of putting pressure on the QB.

 

So, someting has to be said about the defensive scheme also. We may not of had the most talent on defense but how many times did you ever see us rush more defenders then they had blockers?

 

That being said, I agree we need to upgrade our pass rush. My question is can the guys available at #36 provide that and we can get a potential star receiver or must we draft a OLB/pass rusher at #5? Will Orakpo be a difference maker? Beyond that, we need to upgrade the middle of the defense because Orakpo or anybody else would be wasted if we can't stop the run.

 

Hey, I'm asking to get opinions. I was leaning Crabtree but now I'm hearing what makes a lot of sense to go the other way. So, is Orakpo that guy?

[Solon16]

we'll need a number 1 next year cause BE is way gone...so I have no problem with Crabtree. he'll learn for a year as number 2. I remember the long years of waiting for a number 1 before we got BE in the first place....not a bad choice at all. I have no problem with Rey either...in fact I believe he'll be the best / most impactful LB in this draft. Some have a problem if we take him at 5....not me!

 

The choice for us will be curry in my upcoming mock (so far) I have KC taking Bj Raji and moving Dorsey to end in 3-4 where he's better suited at 300 pounds....Pioli with NE drafted three DE~NT's with 1st round picks in TY Warren, Vince Wilfork and Richard Seymour. Just my mock talking....seahawks taking stafford

[Solon16]

I knew I'd revise my draft....no way KC takes Rastafari~raji now

[YtownBrownsBacker]

We definitely need to bring in at least one more WR to add some depth, but I am a running back guy. I think if we can add Shonn Green to go with Harrison our offense will be ok. They can put 8 in the box all they want, we'll run to the outside with harrison, then pound them with Green.

 

Run about 5-6 straight times, then PA that ass and hit em' deep.

 

I would love for us to have a ball control run oriented offense. I would love to see our run/pass ratio somewhere around 60/40 or hell maybe even 70/40.

 

Actually you discribe the offense Mangini want to run. He wants a ball control run first offense. Short passes and move the chains. Don't make mistakes. He wants to win the field position battle, win the time of possession battle and win the turnover battle. You win ball games that way, but you also have to have a stout defense.

 

He puts a great emphasis on special teams to try to win that field position battle.

 

If they trade down they will have enough picks to fill their defensive needs get a Center and take Greene or Brown in the second round or Jennings later.

[JC]

Thank you, YTown. We definitely need a WR in this draft. If not Crabtree at #5 (I do tend to agree on defense here), we should be looking for a WR in the second round. I do like Robiskie with our #50 pick. Solid player who should be a good #2 receiver in the NFL. Edwards and Patten are not going to cut it as the only starters come this season.

 

[Canton Mike]

I don't know if you're already forgetting, but last year I can't count the number of times we had teams in 3rd and long and gave up a 10+ yard passing play because the QB had ALL DAY to throw the ball.

 

As soon as it was 3rd and more than 5, we knew we were toast.

 

 

AMEN!!!!

I hear too much about our poor corners, but I think they did a pretty decent job for the amount of time the opposing QB & receivers had.

Pass rushers are a MUST! I am sick of "rubberband" defenses in Browns Country. Time to get aggressive.

Mike

[Mr. T]

Saorry but I never considered Stallworth to be any value to this team, did or does any Browns fan really think this punk was going to ever contribute?

 

We have had a problem at WR since JJ and K2 went down.