Browns Unlikely To Trade Up

[Bob806]

I'm not even sure trading down is a good idea.

 

I'm certain it isn't, based on my analytical approach of recent drafts when we screwed it up so bad lol.

 

The draft is designed to make bad teams better by selecting their draft picks, not to make bad teams trade away picks. I think Sashi is smart enough to know this. We've got #2, 32, & 65. Right there is enough to fill 3 holes.

[Tour2ma]

Nowhere on earth has anyone said the Goff is expected to be as good as Bosa. You take Bosa IMO.

No one? Anywhere? Interesting typo at NFL.com...

 

Player .................... Pos Ht. Wt. College Grade

Tunsil, Laremy ........ OT 6'5" 305 OleMiss 7.7

Jack, Myles .......... OLB 6'1" 245 UCLA ... 7.5

Buckner,DeForest .... DE 6'7" 281 Oregon 7.3

Elliott, Ezekiel .......... RB 6'0" 225 Ohio St. 7.2

Smith, Jaylon .......... OLB 6'3" 229 NotreD 7.1

Ramsey, Jalen ......... CB 6'1" 202 FSU .... 6.8

Bosa, Joey ............ DE 6'6" 275 Ohio St. 6.7

Goff, Jared ............ QB 6'4" 215 Californ 6.7

Stanley, Ronnie ..... OT 6'5" 304 NotreDm 6.7

Billings, Andrew ....... NT 6'2" 310 Baylor . 6.7

Hargreaves, Vern .... CB 5'11" 192 Florida 6.7

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade

 

Not only is Bosa's rating the same as Goff's, Bosa is not the top DE on NFL.com's board.

 

Really looking forward to your next reply, Gip...

[jiggins7919]

Or analytics might make a "can't miss" case for a single player...

 

That's a pretty fair statement. I guess it will all come down to how we rate the QB candidates. What I'm severely hoping for is Goff and Wentz to be rated about equally, so even if one goes first overall, we'll still have a guy we like at 2.

[The Gipper]

No one? Anywhere? Interesting typo at NFL.com...

 

Player .................... Pos Ht. Wt. College Grade

Tunsil, Laremy ........ OT 6'5" 305 OleMiss 7.7

Jack, Myles .......... OLB 6'1" 245 UCLA ... 7.5

Buckner,DeForest .... DE 6'7" 281 Oregon 7.3

Elliott, Ezekiel .......... RB 6'0" 225 Ohio St. 7.2

Smith, Jaylon .......... OLB 6'3" 229 NotreD 7.1

Ramsey, Jalen ......... CB 6'1" 202 FSU .... 6.8

Bosa, Joey ............ DE 6'6" 275 Ohio St. 6.7

Goff, Jared ............ QB 6'4" 215 Californ 6.7

Stanley, Ronnie ..... OT 6'5" 304 NotreDm 6.7

Billings, Andrew ....... NT 6'2" 310 Baylor . 6.7

Hargreaves, Vern .... CB 5'11" 192 Florida 6.7

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade

 

Not only is Bosa's rating the same as Goff's, Bosa is not the top DE on NFL.com's board.

 

Really looking forward to your next reply, Gip...

You found the needle in the haystack....congratulations. Lets see what the consensus is

 

I believe on the WalterFootball database that Bosa is like the Top pick in 9 out of 10 mock drafts.

[gftChris]

You found the needle in the haystack....congratulations. Lets see what the consensus is

 

I believe on the WalterFootball database that Bosa is like the Top pick in 9 out of 10 mock drafts.

My guess is that goff is number two on most as well.

 

Anyway, if you check NFL.com and CBS, four out of five mock drafts have Laremy Tunsil going first and Goff second, with Bosa either third or fourth. So, if you're using mock drafts as your guide, I think you'll lose that. On big boards, both tend to be around top 5 from what I've seen.

[The Gipper]

My guess is that goff is number two on most as well.

 

Anyway, if you check NFL.com and CBS, four out of five mock drafts have Laremy Tunsil going first and Goff second, with Bosa either third or fourth. So, if you're using mock drafts as your guide, I think you'll lose that. On big boards, both tend to be around top 5 from what I've seen.

Of course, the mock are predicting that each team will draft based on perceived need.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000551301/article/2016-nfl-draft-order-and-needs-for-every-team

 

NFL.com goes strictly by this perceived need apparently: They have the Tits needing an OT most....so they mock them taking an OT

They have the Browns needing a QB....so they mock the Browns taking a QB.....regardless of what the best player available is.

 

This is where I want to Browns to start getting smart: Go get the best talent, regardless of position. Then you might actually have a good team one day.

[Osiris]

 

I'm confused! Please enlighten me in my ignorance. I read comments, which make sense, saying take the best player available when it comes to our turn picking. But, supposing Goff and Bosa were both available still on second pick- how do you determine who to go for?

Nowhere on earth has anyone said the Goff is expected to be as good as Bosa. You take Bosa IMO.

 

 

IMO you still take Goff (or Wentz) at #2 if you believe he is franchise QB material, even if Bosa is the next JJ Watt. The last thing I'd ever want the Browns to be is like the Houston Texans. They're going to be stuck in limbo until they get their franchise QB. Just good enough to squeak into the playoffs occasionally, but not good enough to win in the playoffs.

 

QB is the most important position in all of team sports. Every team in the conference championships had a franchise QB. For that reason, we must get the QB position sorted out before all else. Hype is building on Wentz, so I hope by draft time Goff and Wentz are considered top-ten prospects so even if someone hops the browns for a QB we'll still get a good one.

[Clevfan4life]

 

The last thing I'd ever want the Browns to be is like the Houston Texans.

 

I agree....I would totally hate for the Browns to go to the playoffs. Would utterly "LOATHE" having a good defense with an interior lineman that can get over 20 sacks a year. Would despise watching that guy kill Ben Roethlisberger twice a year. Just hate it all around.......totally agree.

[gftChris]

 

I agree....I would totally hate for the Browns to go to the playoffs. Would utterly "LOATHE" having a good defense with an interior lineman that can get over 20 sacks a year. Would despise watching that guy kill Ben Roethlisberger twice a year. Just hate it all around.......totally agree.

If a guy is getting 20 sacks per year, then great, love it. But that still means he's getting a sack a little over once per game. On 60 or so plays, only one sack. Add tackles for loss, sure, but a QB directly influences the outcome on every play.

[The Gipper]

 

IMO you still take Goff (or Wentz) at #2 if you believe he is franchise QB material, even if Bosa is the next JJ Watt.

Well....there is the rub. I am skeptical if he is "franchise QB material".

 

The last thing I'd ever want the Browns to be is like the Houston Texans. They're going to be stuck in limbo until they get their franchise QB. Just good enough to squeak into the playoffs occasionally, but not good enough to win in the playoffs.

Well, I would take that at this point over having another set of Brady Quinns, Brandon Weedens, Johhny Manziels on our hands...which we could have with this bunch.

 

QB is the most important position in all of team sports. Every team in the conference championships had a franchise QB. For that reason, we must get the QB position sorted out before all else. Hype is building on Wentz, so I hope by draft time Goff and Wentz are considered top-ten prospects so even if someone hops the browns for a QB we'll still get a good one.

Sure.....but desperation and overreaching for a QB is NOT the way to go in my opinion, that just sets you back further......and the hype for the guys you are talking about could just be that....hype.

[TexasAg1969]

 

 

IMO you still take Goff (or Wentz) at #2 if you believe he is franchise QB material, even if Bosa is the next JJ Watt.

Well....there is the rub. I am skeptical if he is "franchise QB material".

 

The last thing I'd ever want the Browns to be is like the Houston Texans. They're going to be stuck in limbo until they get their franchise QB. Just good enough to squeak into the playoffs occasionally, but not good enough to win in the playoffs.

Well, I would take that at this point over having another set of Brady Quinns, Brandon Weedens, Johhny Manziels on our hands...which we could have with this bunch.

 

QB is the most important position in all of team sports. Every team in the conference championships had a franchise QB. For that reason, we must get the QB position sorted out before all else. Hype is building on Wentz, so I hope by draft time Goff and Wentz are considered top-ten prospects so even if someone hops the browns for a QB we'll still get a good one.

Sure.....but desperation and overreaching for a QB is NOT the way to go in my opinion, that just sets you back further......and the hype for the guys you are talking about could just be that....hype.

 

 

I agree we need to go with BPA regardless of position and that is neither Goff nor Wentz. But if we go with the QB reach, we will likely end up next year pretty near the top of the draft again since I think neither is NFL ready and our D still has no true pass rusher to improve the team. So we get the pass rusher next year unless we are lucky enough to find one at #32 overall or trade up to get one. Worst possible outcome is if this coaching staff pulls out a couple of games somehow and puts us out of the top 10 next year with still no true pass rusher to make our D function the way it should.

[LogicIsForSquares]

 

I agree we need to go with BPA regardless of position and that is neither Goff nor Wentz. But if we go with the QB reach, we will likely end up next year pretty near the top of the draft again since I think neither is NFL ready and our D still has no true pass rusher to improve the team. So we get the pass rusher next year unless we are lucky enough to find one at #32 overall or trade up to get one. Worst possible outcome is if this coaching staff pulls out a couple of games somehow and puts us out of the top 10 next year with still no true pass rusher to make our D function the way it should.

Yeah it would be a real shitty thing if we aren't picking in the top ten next year.

 

/sarcasm

[TexasAg1969]

Yeah it would be a real shitty thing if we aren't picking in the top ten next year.

 

/sarcasm

 

You know what I mean. Forever doomed to be outside the playoffs because we don't have the D to help out an O, so we end up winning 6-8 games every year and stay in limbo. That is definitely worst possible outcome.

 

I've made no secret that I don't think we reach for a QB when SB teams are built on D first.

[LogicIsForSquares]

 

You know what I mean. Forever doomed to be outside the playoffs because we don't have the D to help out an O, so we end up winning 6-8 games every year and stay in limbo. That is definitely worst possible outcome.

You can find defensive talent in the middle of the first and into the mid rounds. QB talent is 9 times out of 10, found at the top of the first. If we pick the best defensive player and Hue does get the team to the middle of the first for next year, they will be out of reach for a QB worth a damn and would have to mortgage the farm to get back in to the running.

[Clevfan4life]

Our defense doesn't just need "a pass rusher". We need complete players that can stop the run. That's Bosa and that's why I want him unless his attitude is shitty about playing in Cleveland. If it is, trade that pick to someone outside the division that's a few picks back...and get Buckner or someone from that Alabama D line.

 

But please get some mean grown ass nigga's on that defense. I would not hate it if Bosa got thrown out of a game cause he goat fucked Roethlisberger to the balls with his crown. Would love to see Vontaze on the team run up and slap him on the helmet after he did it too. Fuck getting some poosy QB. Tired of that shit.

[Clevfan4life]

You can find defensive talent in the middle of the first and into the mid rounds. QB talent is 9 times out of 10, found at the top of the first. If we pick the best defensive player and Hue does get the team to the middle of the first for next year, they will be out of reach for a QB worth a damn and would have to mortgage the farm to get back in to the running.

 

You might be right but I would say that if you build a really good D and at least a very good O line, you can attract talent to Cleveland in FA. And not guys in their 30's looking for that last check. I'm talkin about guys in their prime who already have some kind of NFL experience.

[LogicIsForSquares]

 

You might be right but I would say that if you build a really good D and at least a very good O line, you can attract talent to Cleveland in FA. And not guys in their 30's looking for that last check. I'm talkin about guys in their prime who already have some kind of NFL experience.

Good QBs rarely hit the free market until they are about used up. I understand your mentality on this but we are not going to get a good QB outside of drafting one in the first.

[TexasAg1969]

Good QBs rarely hit the free market until they are about used up. I understand your mentality on this but we are not going to get a good QB outside of drafting one in the first.

 

Even if I accepted that scenario, I still think that QB does not exist in this draft. Whichever one you get is a reach IMO.

[LogicIsForSquares]

 

Even if I accepted that scenario, I still think that QB does not exist in this draft. Whichever one you get is a reach IMO.

I think Goff looks the part but that opinion may change by draft time.

[Tour2ma]

You found the needle in the haystack....congratulations. Lets see what the consensus is

lol... well when you say, "Nowhere on earth has anyone said the Goff is expected to be as good as Bosa," all it takes to pop your balloon of a statement is one needle...

 

... and most would consider NFL.com's Draft Tracker rating a very big, fucking needle.

 

 

Gip,

I accept your opinion... disagree with it, but accept it. What I reject are demonstrably false claims of objective evidence that your opinion is the correct one. Objective evidence is still years away.

See you then...

[Clevfan4life]

we're concentrating too much on Bosa as the only alternative to taking a 1st round shit with a QB. This is supposed to be one of the deepest defensive drafts in years. Does Bosa look like the best D player right now? Yes, but we should talk about more than just him.

[gftChris]

we're concentrating too much on Bosa as the only alternative to taking a 1st round shit with a QB. This is supposed to be one of the deepest defensive drafts in years. Does Bosa look like the best D player right now? Yes, but we should talk about more than just him.

I agree, there's scope to get another very good D player later on so we don't need to necessarily go so hard after Bosa early.

[Osiris]

 

I agree....I would totally hate for the Browns to go to the playoffs. Would utterly "LOATHE" having a good defense with an interior lineman that can get over 20 sacks a year. Would despise watching that guy kill Ben Roethlisberger twice a year. Just hate it all around.......totally agree.

 

I guarantee no one on the Browns wants that to be the teams ceiling, and that's what you'll get until you get the QB sorted out.

[Clevfan4life]

 

I guarantee no one on the Browns wants that to be the teams ceiling, and that's what you'll get until you get the QB sorted out.

 

Houston has had high drafts since they took watt and not ended up with shit. They just didn't pick right. Did they pass on a Luck though the year they drafted Watt? If they had I would see your point. Newton went first that year but after the 10th pick (Watt), the only QB that's made something out of the league was Kapernick...he went in the 2nd.

 

Please believe when I say that if there was a top tier QB coming out of this draft, as much as I like Bosa there's no way I could justify skipping that pick. But in this year? I know for a fact that Bosa or antoher one of those front 7 guys coming out will produce on day one for the team. Our defense "WILL" be better with Joey Bosa on one of the edges. We draft Goff and we have to wait till at least the 2018 season to see if he pans out. He might have to sit two years....so 2019 before we know? C'mon man aren't you sick of this shit? Aren't you sick of watching teams beast our defense around? Running for 150 yds a game? It's shit. I can't stand it anymore.

[Tour2ma]

we're concentrating too much on Bosa as the only alternative to taking a 1st round shit with a QB. This is supposed to be one of the deepest defensive drafts in years. Does Bosa look like the best D player right now? Yes, but we should talk about more than just him.

Works for me... but how many elite candidates are there on the D-side?

 

Bosa... Buckner... Ramsey... and Jack???

 

Smith took himself out of the running with his knee. For the life of me I can't figure out how Jack gets used.

[gftChris]

 

Houston has had high drafts since they took watt and not ended up with shit. They just didn't pick right. Did they pass on a Luck though the year they drafted Watt? If they had I would see your point. Newton went first that year but after the 10th pick (Watt), the only QB that's made something out of the league was Kapernick...he went in the 2nd.

 

Please believe when I say that if there was a top tier QB coming out of this draft, as much as I like Bosa there's no way I could justify skipping that pick. But in this year? I know for a fact that Bosa or antoher one of those front 7 guys coming out will produce on day one for the team. Our defense "WILL" be better with Joey Bosa on one of the edges. We draft Goff and we have to wait till at least the 2018 season to see if he pans out. He might have to sit two years....so 2019 before we know? C'mon man aren't you sick of this shit? Aren't you sick of watching teams beast our defense around? Running for 150 yds a game? It's shit. I can't stand it anymore.

Wasn't Dalton the same year as Kasp? Pretty sure Houston would have been satisfied with the red bb gun at qb this year.

[The Gipper]

lol... well when you say, "Nowhere on earth has anyone said the Goff is expected to be as good as Bosa," all it takes to pop your balloon of a statement is one needle...

 

... and most would consider NFL.com's Draft Tracker rating a very big, fucking needle.

 

 

Gip,

I accept your opinion... disagree with it, but accept it. What I reject are demonstrably false claims of objective evidence that your opinion is the correct one. Objective evidence is still years away.

See you then...

My opinion: Bosa. You have accepted it......now you must own it.

 

Again....not talking about which player would fit an area of need.....I am talking the best player regardless.

[The Gipper]

we're concentrating too much on Bosa as the only alternative to taking a 1st round shit with a QB. This is supposed to be one of the deepest defensive drafts in years. Does Bosa look like the best D player right now? Yes, but we should talk about more than just him.

Why? Because you don't think he will be there at #2? I understand that as being highly possible.

[The Gipper]

 

Houston has had high drafts since they took watt and not ended up with shit. They just didn't pick right. Did they pass on a Luck though the year they drafted Watt?

Uh, no....Luck was #1 overall.....but the Browns did pass on Watt and took Richardson instead. Talk about not picking right.

 

If they had I would see your point. Newton went first that year but after the 10th pick (Watt), the only QB that's made something out of the league was Kapernick...he went in the 2nd.

 

Please believe when I say that if there was a top tier QB coming out of this draft, as much as I like Bosa there's no way I could justify skipping that pick. But in this year? I know for a fact that Bosa or antoher one of those front 7 guys coming out will produce on day one for the team. Our defense "WILL" be better with Joey Bosa on one of the edges. We draft Goff and we have to wait till at least the 2018 season to see if he pans out. He might have to sit two years....so 2019 before we know? C'mon man aren't you sick of this shit? Aren't you sick of watching teams beast our defense around? Running for 150 yds a game? It's shit. I can't stand it anymore.

Hear hear.

[htownbrown]

 

IMO you still take Goff (or Wentz) at #2 if you believe he is franchise QB material, even if Bosa is the next JJ Watt. The last thing I'd ever want the Browns to be is like the Houston Texans. They're going to be stuck in limbo until they get their franchise QB. Just good enough to squeak into the playoffs occasionally, but not good enough to win in the playoffs.

 

QB is the most important position in all of team sports. Every team in the conference championships had a franchise QB. For that reason, we must get the QB position sorted out before all else. Hype is building on Wentz, so I hope by draft time Goff and Wentz are considered top-ten prospects so even if someone hops the browns for a QB we'll still get a good one.

Houston will probably draft Hackenburg somewhere and he will be the most successful rookie in this class BECAUSE they built the team first.