Chip Banks Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I've now seen twice in Mary Kay's articles a passing reference to Quinn's contract status: "Any team interested in Quinn would have to consider his contract situation. If he plays 70% of the snaps in 2009, he will reach $11 million in escalators, which the new team would either have to pay or renegotiate. Cutler, who's set to make $1.035 million in 2009, might also seek a new deal." This is insane! It gives us a glimpse into how Phil "Opey-Cunningham" Savage was completely out of his league in every aspect of being a general manager. For God's sake, the city of Cleveland ought to send a letter of apology signed by every resident to John Collins for driving him out after he pointed out that Opie had no clue in negotiating contracts. Wasn't at least part of the appeal of Quinn supposed to be that, having slid into the mid 20s, he was lower risk/higher reward than most first round guys???? A guy you could invest starts in and try out without breaking the bank before he showed something? Like, say Arron Rogers?? Compare Rogers' total compensation last year -- a year in which he took over 70% of the Packers snaps. A year in which he threw 28 TDs to 13 INTS for 4,000 yards and a 93 passer rating. He had a salary of $ 680,000 and earned incentive bonuses of $ 1,229,920 for a grand total of $ 1,909,920!!! One fifth of what Quinn would earn! They were picked in virtually the identical spot in the draft!!!!!! Both had been talked about as possible #1 picks until their draft-day free fall. Both saw 20 teams that didn't have to have them. The model was set! So what caliber of QB pulled down $11 million total compensation last year? Salary plus incentive bonuses for Peyton Manning equaled $11.5 million. Brother Eli? A #1 overall and reigning Super Bowl champion netted $9.9 million. Phillip Rivers got $9.3 million. McNabb, $6.3 million. Cutler totaled $6.4 million. I'd point out that neither Tom Brady nor Carson Palmer received $11 million, but in all fairness, I don't know what their incentive bonuses would have been had they made it through the season. Maybe they could have gotten to Quinn-type bucks with MVP-type seasons? Drew Brees and Kurt Warner had those seasons but weren't so lucky. They threw for a combined 10,000 yards and made $5 million and $8 million respectively when combining salary and incentive bonuses. Together they made only $1.5 million more than what Quinn will make for taking 70% of the snaps. Jason Campbell? Drafted about where Brady was drafted as well -- his salary plus incentive bonuses netted him $1.2 million. He was a starter, had a mid-eighties passer rating and threw for 3,200 yards. Yeah . . . not great, but better numbers than Quinn would have projected. And numbers I'd take for Quinn this year as a Brown and call a success. But if he were Quinn putting up those same numbers he would have been paid TEN TIMES Campbell's total compensation!! Last year, with his few starts, Quinn earned a total of $ 4,323,040, with almost $4 million paid in incentive bonuses -- WHAT MILESTONES DID HE REACH?? Quinn played in three games and threw under 90 passes! That's twice what A. Rogers made being drafted a year earlier, starting almost every game and playing nearly at an all-star level!! It's over 3 times what J. Campbell made starting almost every game as well!!!! Rogers and Campbell have never made $5 million in any year of their careers. Cutler, the much higher draft pick hasn't approached $11 million for any year! Source for all salaries: http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...on.aspx?pos=132 Playing 70% of the snaps this year will guarantee Quinn the pay of an ELITE NFL QB if Mary Kay is right! The escalators are not for making Pro Bowls, or throwing for 3,500 yards -- in essence they are for being named a starter and being given a season to show what he has. I was all for giving Quinn a chance. I don't see sure-fire stardom in him . . . but I saw some things I liked. But at this cost?? If Mangini and Kook want to move Quinn, I think we know why. That contract is beyond moronic. I'm not digging on Quinn. I've seen about as much to suggest that he'll be good as to suggest that he'll be mediocre. But he should have been made to earn an $11 million payday beyond showing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NebBrownsFan Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I've now seen twice in Mary Kay's articles a passing reference to Quinn's contract status: "Any team interested in Quinn would have to consider his contract situation. If he plays 70% of the snaps in 2009, he will reach $11 million in escalators, which the new team would either have to pay or renegotiate. Cutler, who's set to make $1.035 million in 2009, might also seek a new deal." This is insane! It gives us a glimpse into how Phil "Opey-Cunningham" Savage was completely out of his league in every aspect of being a general manager. For God's sake, the city of Cleveland ought to send a letter of apology signed by every resident to John Collins for driving him out after he pointed out that Opie had no clue in negotiating contracts. Wasn't at least part of the appeal of Quinn supposed to be that, having slid into the mid 20s, he was lower risk/higher reward than most first round guys???? A guy you could invest starts in and try out without breaking the bank before he showed something? Like, say Arron Rogers?? Compare Rogers' total compensation last year -- a year in which he took over 70% of the Packers snaps. A year in which he threw 28 TDs to 13 INTS for 4,000 yards and a 93 passer rating. He had a salary of $ 680,000 and earned incentive bonuses of $ 1,229,920 for a grand total of $ 1,909,920!!! One fifth of what Quinn would earn! They were picked in virtually the identical spot in the draft!!!!!! Both had been talked about as possible #1 picks until their draft-day free fall. Both saw 20 teams that didn't have to have them. The model was set! So what caliber of QB pulled down $11 million total compensation last year? Salary plus incentive bonuses for Peyton Manning equaled $11.5 million. Brother Eli? A #1 overall and reigning Super Bowl champion netted $9.9 million. Phillip Rivers got $9.3 million. McNabb, $6.3 million. Cutler totaled $6.4 million. I'd point out that neither Tom Brady nor Carson Palmer received $11 million, but in all fairness, I don't know what their incentive bonuses would have been had they made it through the season. Maybe they could have gotten to Quinn-type bucks with MVP-type seasons? Drew Brees and Kurt Warner had those seasons but weren't so lucky. They threw for a combined 10,000 yards and made $5 million and $8 million respectively when combining salary and incentive bonuses. Together they made only $1.5 million more than what Quinn will make for taking 70% of the snaps. Jason Campbell? Drafted about where Brady was drafted as well -- his salary plus incentive bonuses netted him $1.2 million. He was a starter, had a mid-eighties passer rating and threw for 3,200 yards. Yeah . . . not great, but better numbers than Quinn would have projected. And numbers I'd take for Quinn this year as a Brown and call a success. But if he were Quinn putting up those same numbers he would have been paid TEN TIMES Campbell's total compensation!! Last year, with his few starts, Quinn earned a total of $ 4,323,040, with almost $4 million paid in incentive bonuses -- WHAT MILESTONES DID HE REACH?? Quinn played in three games and threw under 90 passes! That's twice what A. Rogers made being drafted a year earlier, starting almost every game and playing nearly at an all-star level!! It's over 3 times what J. Campbell made starting almost every game as well!!!! Rogers, Campbell and Cutler have never made $7 million in any year of their careers. Source for all salaries: http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...on.aspx?pos=132 Playing 70% of the snaps this year will guarantee Quinn the pay of an ELITE NFL QB if Mary Kay is right! The escalators are not for making Pro Bowls, or throwing for 3,500 yards -- in essence they are for being named a starter and being given a season to show what he has. I was all for giving Quinn a chance. I don't sure sure-fire stardom in him . . . but I saw some things I liked. But at this cost?? If Mangini and Kook want to move Quinn, I think we know why. That contract is beyond moronic. I'm not digging on Quinn. I've seen about as much to suggest that he'll be good as to suggest that he'll be mediocre. But he should have been made to earn an $11 million payday beyond showing up. For one, not sure you can even compare Rodgers' and Quinn's situations. What would Rodgers have made two years ago for incentives, if he had played? That would be the same year of his contract that would compare to Quinn. Also, what were the incentives for Quinn last season? I'm pretty sure that the idea was to have had an idea of whether Quinn was for real or not BEFORE going into this heavily incentive based season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Playing 70% of the snaps this year will guarantee Quinn the pay of an ELITE NFL QB if Mary Kay is right! And not playing 70% of the snaps this year will guarantee that he asks for a trade. So he can get that $ I've been saying it for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraDawg Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Well the fact is getting rid of him may have it's own set of problems . It just keeps coming at you at times . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Banks Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 For one, not sure you can even compare Rodgers' and Quinn's situations. What would Rodgers have made two years ago for incentives, if he had played? That would be the same year of his contract that would compare to Quinn. Also, what were the incentives for Quinn last season? I'm pretty sure that the idea was to have had an idea of whether Quinn was for real or not BEFORE going into this heavily incentive based season. Don't know the precise details of Rogers contract, but click on the Campbell.bmp above. No doubt he would have hit the escalator under Quinn's contract starting 13 games in his second season and 16 in his third. Campbell was taken at 25 and Quinn at 22. Really, though, even if Quinn had a year under his belt at this point the pay him $11 million or cut him dilemma was built in and ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NebBrownsFan Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Don't know the precise details of Rogers contract, but click on the Campbell.bmp above. No doubt he would have hit the escalator under Quinn's contract starting 13 games in his second season and 16 in his third. Campbell was taken at 25 and Quinn at 22. Really, though, even if Quinn had a year under his belt at this point the pay him $11 million or cut him dilemma was built in and ridiculous. I agree mostly...of course the fact that Savage built in a guaranteed roster bonus for DA, whether he was on the roster or not, speaks volumes about his negotiating skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Banks Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I agree mostly...of course the fact that Savage built in a guaranteed roster bonus for DA, whether he was on the roster or not, speaks volumes about his negotiating skills. The fact that Savage got duped into thinking the Cowboys were involved in a plot to steal DA and then trade for only their low first and third round draft picks with a FA tender (as opposed to the contract) tells even more about Opie. Ozzie probably still is laughing about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Banks Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 And not playing 70% of the snaps this year will guarantee that he asks for a trade. So he can get that $ I've been saying it for 2 years. Anybody know what the real salary cap consequence of paying the $11 million in escalators?? I initially thought that escalator would would be reached if he took 55% of the snaps in both the first two years or 70% in the third and would be applied as salary in years four and five of the contract -- but that is not how Mary Kay seems to be reporting it. If it is a UTBE (unlikely to be earned) incentive tacked on to next year's cap hit if earned, there currently is no salary cap next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I agree mostly...of course the fact that Savage built in a guaranteed roster bonus for DA, whether he was on the roster or not, speaks volumes about his negotiating skills. How so? Quinn got a 5 million dollar guaranteed roster bonus last April. And as far as Quinn's incentives go, HE ASKED FOR THEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I have mixed feelings about trading Braylon. What if we dump him and he blossoms... you know, learns to catch the ball with consistency? I agree. I can honestly say I never liked how that happened. Collins was screwed....and part of the reason why Savage was dumped so quickly...Lerner never like that episode either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Once again to me, this shows much more how Crennel screwed the pooch more than Savage, although it was their lack of ability to work together that really made things worse. I'm sure Quinn's agent had the contract written to avoid the exact situation that has happened. When Quinn was drafted, the WHOLE organization felt we didn't really have an answer at QB and that we needed to do something. Quinn's contract was written in a way that was figured he would have had at least SOME experiance in that first year and if he turned out to be someone they wanted to keep, they would renegotiate with him. But since good ole Romeo stuck with DA as long as he did, Quinn got no experiance, and likely feels he owes the team nothing so why would he renegotiate now? That sounds pretty straight on to me its as much fats doing with his rookie hatred as was savages fault for not firing the fatass.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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