Grading Mark Sanchez

[Guest Aloysius]

One of the most frustrating things for a draft geek is to spend a lot of time focusing on what you think are your teams' major draft needs, only to discover that you should have been focusing on another pivotal position.

 

Case in point is the Browns' reported interest in Mark Sanchez. When I watched USC, I barely even paid attention to their offense; those second level defensive guys were all I cared about. Now, I'm playing catchup in an attempt to figure out whether Sanchez would be a significant upgrade over BQ. I'm sure many people here are wondering the same thing.

 

To get that discussion going, I've included some clips of Sanchez from the Virginia, Ohio State, and UCLA games. If you click on the title at the top of each clip, a larger, better quality clip will open in a new window. I definitely recommend doing that, especially with the first clip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if that's not enough to look at, here's a fairly detailed scouting report on the USC product. Not sure I agree with everything in it, but it makes some very interesting points.

 

GENERAL REPORT

GRADE: 6.80

 

Body Structure: Has good upper- and lower-body bone structure, with solid chest, shoulder and arm thickness. Has well-defined calves and a frame that could develop to 240 pounds with no loss in quickness.

 

Athletic Ability: Sanchez displays good quickness and mobility for his position. He is equally effective throwing on the move as he is standing in the pocket. He has good flexibility and leg drive moving back from center to his past set point. He has functional playing speed -- though he won't win many footraces -- and good balance to break arm tackles on the move. While not fast, he shows adequate change-of-direction agility and good strength. He runs with a normal stride and shows good movement retreating in the pocket. His balance and body control allow him to throw on rollouts and he displays good lateral agility, evident by the way he slides to avoid pocket pressure. While more of a drop-back passer, he has the arm strength to throw on the move. He produced 17 rushing first downs on his 52 carries in 2008, scoring three times. GRADE: 7.2

 

Football Sense: Is a good student of the game, raised in a pro-style passing attack during both his prep and college playing days. There's no question he could have greatly benefited from another year in college, but he is a smart passer with keen eyes scanning the field, doing a nice job of making reads and following through with his progression (2.73% interception rate in 2008). Has innate instincts, along with developing decision-making skills that lead many to believe he can handle a pro offense in a short time (with patient coaching). He can't be called a "student of the game," as he is not the type who will shut off the lights in the film room, but he does well in school and should not have problems digesting a complicated playbook. Sanchez reads coverage well and makes proper checks, showing football savvy and field smarts. He is quick to retain plays and takes the plays from the board to the field with no problems. GRADE: 7.0

 

Character: Well-liked by his teammates and is a "yes sir, no sir" type, but did draw the angst of head coach Pete Carroll, who feels that Sanchez made the wrong decision to enter the draft, feeling he would have benefited with another year as a starter. Gets very good family support -- one of his brothers also serves as his agent. He did have one off-field issue of concern, as he was arrested in 2006 after being accused of sexually assaulting another USC student, but prosecutors decided not to file charges against him, citing a lack of sufficient evidence. GRADE: 5.9

 

Competitiveness: Takes pride in his blue-collar work ethic. He is a good team leader, serving as captain in 2008. Has good huddle command and is both mentally and physically tough. Not considered a coach on the field, but he does keep his mistakes to a minimum. He is confident in his leadership role and is rarely rattled, especially under pressure. He does the little extras to improve and shows good emotion on the field. He will step up and stand tall in the pocket rather than force the ball into traffic, a trait that shows he is maturing (most young players, given that opportunity to start, try to do too much, only to press on the field). GRADE: 7.3

 

Work Habits: Sanchez works hard in the offseason, but he wasn't the film or practice field junkie past USC quarterbacks had been. He has good work ethic, is a good student, and is a good vocal leader in the huddle and locker room. He will play with pain and continues to gain poise and confidence working within a pro-style system. He has a team-first attitude and leadership ability, takes control in the huddle and is a good leader-by-example type. GRADE: 6.6

 

ATHLETIC REPORT

GRADE: 7.11

 

Setup: Shows good balance and body control driving back from center, displaying the quick feet to get into position to make all of his throws. He has good upper- and lower-body mechanics, displays enough functional strength to break arm tackles on the move. He is a classic drop-back passer, most comfortable in a five-step drop. He does a nice job of scanning the field and looks comfortable setting up in the pocket and executing his follow-through. He shows good fluidity and quickness when he sets up and is a pretty athletic mover. Despite a lack of sustained speed to go long distances, he sets up quickly and is ready to throw in an instant. He shows the ability to reach his throwing point while maintaining body control and his balance allows him to stand tall in the pocket. GRADE: 7.2

 

Reading Defenses: Even though he had just one season as a starter, Sanchez proved to be very capable of handling the mental aspect of the game. Is a quick decision-maker and even if he makes a wrong move, he doesn't allow his mistakes to linger. Is a good field technician, knowing how to operate within the framework of the offense, which is predicated on him making quick reads and getting the ball out to his receivers even before his targets are able to break. It's rare to see him force the ball into a crowd, or hold on to it too long that it leads to a costly sack. He is good reading defenses and, when he shows patience, he can pick apart zones. When he forces some into coverage, it is because he holds the ball too long, but he is learning to look for his secondary targets. The thing that stands out is his ability to throw with touch and good timing. When flushed out of the pocket, he has enough agility to throw on the run, but will more often throw the ball away than force the pass into traffic. GRADE: 7.5

 

Release: Classic over-the-top, smooth delivery with a high release. Ready to throw when he hits release point. His overall throwing mechanics are very good and he shows good quickness and snap in his release. Because of his solid mechanics, he can launch the ball with accuracy, even when he does not have his feet set. With his compact, quick delivery over the top and a smooth motion, defenses have little time to settle under his throws, as he excels at hitting his receivers before they come out of their breaks. GRADE: 7.5

 

Arm Strength: Has good arm strength to make any throw, even when firing on the move or throwing off his back foot. Effectively varies the speed on his tosses, showing good zip firing into tight areas. His ball speed is excellent, as it comes off his fingertips easily and receivers don't have to make too many adjustments. Generates a lot of velocity and ball speed, throwing the ball across his body while displaying good hip flexibility. He has very good accuracy going long (50-of-241 pass completions were for 20 yards or longer in 2008) and a lively snap on the short tosses. He demonstrates very good arc on his long outs, and receivers settle over those throws to effortless secure over their outside shoulder. The thing he does best is generate velocity behind his long throws, with a very easy and smooth release. GRADE: 7.4

 

Accuracy: Sanchez not only completed 65.85% of his passes in 2008, 147-of-241 completions produced first downs. He has very good touch and velocity on short and intermediate throws. When playing the vertical game, he leads the receivers well, giving them the space they need to adjust. He is accurate at all levels both from the pocket and on the move. Throws a catchable ball with zip or touch, helping receivers be successful without breaking off routes. Gets good touch and has improved his trajectory on his deep throws, along with showing the ability to stick the ball in tight areas. GRADE: 7.5

 

Touch: Sanchez excels anticipating routes and knowing when receivers will come open. He has very good overall timing and knows when to throw the ball. He will not hesitate to tuck the ball and run when his receivers are covered. He knows when to take some heat off his short throws, resulting in better accuracy. His timing is good from the three- and five-step drops, but when he holds on to the ball a little too long, it will result in sacks. He gets good trajectory on his deep throws and displays the ability to anticipate and make adjustments at the line to challenge the soft areas on the field. GRADE: 7.3

 

Poise: Sanchez is cool under pressure and doesn't get happy feet. Almost never flustered, even when having to hold the ball and throw in the face of a fierce pass rush. Does a nice job setting his feet, knows he lacks the foot speed to tuck the ball and run with it, and stands tall in the pocket and will absorb the hit. He keeps his cool when forced to roll out and will throw the ball away rather than force a pass into a crowd. GRADE: 7.3

 

Leadership: In the short time he took snaps under center as USC's starter, Sanchez showed that he has good command in the huddle. He is a vocal leader, but not one that will scream just to make a point. He has a strong desire to win and the team seemed to respond well to him, especially when he struggled early, but rallied the team in the 2008 Arizona game. GRADE: 6.8

 

Pocket Movement: Sanchez moves well in the pocket, but even though he scored three times and generated 17 first downs on 52 carries in 2008, he will never be confused for being a scrambler. He has a good feel for pocket pressure and knows when to step up or escape when his protection breaks down, buying time with his feet. He was sacked 17 times in 2008, mostly due to protection breakdowns behind a young offensive line, but he also coughed up the ball seven times and needs to do a better job of securing the ball on the move. He maintains focus downfield, feeling the pressure well. He is more comfortable when dropping back, but has enough arm strength to roll out and throw. GRADE: 6.3

 

Scrambling Ability: Sanchez shows good movement, but is really not a great scrambler. He moved around gingerly early in the 2008 season while recovering from a dislocated knee cap, but did show he has the ability to throw on the move. He has the anticipation skills to know when to step up in the pocket and buy time. With his strong lower frame, he can break tackles and move the chains, but isn't a fast or elusive threat to run. He has good body control rolling out in either direction and can throw with decent accuracy on the move. GRADE: 6.3

 

Compares To: TRENT EDWARDS, Buffalo -- Sanchez, just beginning to come into his own after he was groomed in a pro-style offense since his prep days, might lack the game experience or incredible arm strength of Matthew Stafford, he does show a lot of moxie on the field, along with good patience and excellent timing and touch. He needs to be in a strong vertical attack, as he's best throwing downfield and does a great job of anticipating his receivers before they come out of their breaks.

 

OVERALL GRADE: 7.06

Personally, I'm unsure as to whether he'd be an upgrade for us. Hopefully, some of you guys can help get me off the fence.

[Guest mz.]

Seems like a less-intelligent and charasmatic yet slightly more accurate Brady Quinn. I can't for the life of me see why Mangini would prefer Sanchez over Quinn, other than marginally at best.

[Gips]

Its really hard to say i like sanchez i think he will be a fantastic qb in a couple years of learning a system and learning to read nfl defenses he hasnt had enough time as the starter to be immediately ready to get under center in the nfl...he learns fast and has the natural intangibles i like in a qb..so i would say he isnt an immediate upgrade to any team but will potentially rock some teams world within 2 years...

 

BQ has been a bench student for 2 years he knows most the players well and he is intelligent and likely knows dabolls offense by now he understands nfl speed and can read nfl defenses some question his long ball? BQ can deliver a decent bomb while backpeddling unlike DA who cant toss it 20 yards or with any accuracy while backpeddling...bq has the poise and command of the team for what little he has played he scans the whole field fast and is capable of striking an unexpected open target which makes him a triple threat to opposing defenses instead of reliably staring down one target like DA because he reads and scans to slow to actually take the time and when he does read,scan and adjust he throws picks or gets sacked..

 

So my opinion is definately no sanchez is not an immediate upgrade to the browns but could likely beat da out for backup and he could get very good by the end of 1 or 2 seasons..bq and sanchez would be a good battle for starter in 2011..

 

Call me crazy but ive already etched sanchez out to have a great nfl career of course i etched bq out to have one to but due to poor management by crennel/savage and now possibly mankok it hasnt happened yet...but rather bq plays here or somewhere else he will succeed in the nfl...hehehehehe

[OconRecon]

I watched the first two clips all the way through and he sure seems to have made his living throwing a lot of short stuff, which doesn't bother me, but this would be more Quinn-like. I think he throws shorter than Quinn did at ND, but gets a lot of YAC to make up for it.

 

Less maturity and less experience. Add that Quinn has a reasonable contract, two years of NFL exposure, and is ready for a Daboll offense and I can't see how Sanchez is a clear upgrade.

 

He's crafty and moves well. I'll admit to a feeling he'll work out in the NFL. I'm just not sure any of the current evidence says he's a slam dunk over Quinn.

 

In order for us to pay him boo-koo bucks, and skip on Quinn altogether, he should be a slam dunk.

 

Here's what Scout has to say:

 

In the case of Brady Quinn, no quarterback in recent memory is better prepared to succeed. He had four years of college and two years of sitting in the pro game. He was tutored by Charlie Weis...

 

Like many here, I really feel Quinn is ready to start, and will be the Browns starting QB to start the '09 season.

[ballpeen]

Thanks.....I prefer grading that is numerical such as the ones above on a standard 8 point scale..(there are other scales, but they usually weigh things about the same)

 

Those allow a comparison to players from previous years. Star ratings and value boards tend to rate people inside that class but many times don't rate people to a NFL standard.

[Tobalaz]

Compares To: TRENT EDWARDS, Buffalo -- Sanchez, just beginning to come into his own after he was groomed in a pro-style offense since his prep days, might lack the game experience or incredible arm strength of Matthew Stafford, he does show a lot of moxie on the field, along with good patience and excellent timing and touch. He needs to be in a strong vertical attack, as he's best throwing downfield and does a great job of anticipating his receivers before they come out of their breaks.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't I remember Edwards and Quinn compared and Quinn coming out on top of the two?

I thought I recalled Shep saying something about the two being practically identical but Quinn having the bigger arm.

If that's the case and it's true, then Sanchez would be a step backwards for us.

 

 

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't I remember Edwards and Quinn compared and Quinn coming out on top of the two?

I thought I recalled Shep saying something about the two being practically identical but Quinn having the bigger arm.

If that's the case and it's true, then Sanchez would be a step backwards for us.

 

A voice of reason would say......................Sanchez is a smokescreen. With all the needs of the Browns could you really see them drafting Sanchez. Now if he is Quinn with a little weaker arm then he's at least a year away from starting at QB. After grooming Quinn on the finer points of the NFL, the speed of the NFL game and reading NFL defenses I agree we would be taking a step backwards. Plus, having a system installed that he's familiar with and plays to his strengths is a positive.

 

A personal workout with Sanchez is nothing more then having one with Maclin, Maualuga, that TE (whatever his name is), Orakpo, Curry and Smith. Some are serious and some are as stated above, smokescreens.

 

Sanchez's visit very well may be a smokescreen but also a just in case, which is doubtful, but just in case they are made a deal they can't refuse. I guess it is called covering all your bases and making other teams scratch their heads.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

BTW, Edwards was often called "a poor man's Brady Quinn." Similar guys, throwers, athletes, etc. Difference was that Quinn put up huge numbers and Edwards played on a bad team and had nagging injuries.

 

Not a stretch at all to call Quinn, Edwards, and Sanchez similar.

 

I'll agree with that and say because of game experience Edwards is ahead of Quinn and Quinn is a year ahead of Sanchez.

[Guest Aloysius]

Seems like a less-intelligent and charasmatic yet slightly more accurate Brady Quinn. I can't for the life of me see why Mangini would prefer Sanchez over Quinn, other than marginally at best.

Don't know if Brady's actually smarter, though it sounds like he works harder in the film room.

 

As for charisma/leadership ability, I'm not sure Quinn's got a clear advantage. I was impressed when Sanchez took hit after cheap hit against UCLA, then rushed over to stop one of his teammates from getting into an altercation. He hasn't been tested as much as Quinn, but he's shown some good qualities.

 

He's crafty and moves well. I'll admit to a feeling he'll work out in the NFL. I'm just not sure any of the current evidence says he's a slam dunk over Quinn.

Agreed about it not being a slam dunk, but I also think Sanchez will be a successful NFL QB. Because of that, it really depends on what you think of Quinn.

 

A case could be made that Mangini would still be coaching the Jets if the QB position had been handled better. I'm sure Mangini's aware of that: if he harbors any doubts about Quinn, he might be willing to pull the trigger on a guy he thinks is more of a sure thing.

 

Sanchez is a smokescreen. With all the needs of the Browns could you really see them drafting Sanchez.

It very well could be a smokescreen. But even if they're bringing him in just to scare a team into trading up, Mangini's going to meet with him face to face & have him work the board. It's not crazy to think that Mangini could end up falling in love.

 

Not a stretch at all to call Quinn, Edwards, and Sanchez similar.

Not at all. One similarity between Quinn and Sanchez is that they both make a few throws a game that leave you scratching your head. However, Quinn's are usually because his accuracy goes haywire; with Sanchez, it's because he temporarily loses his good field vision.

 

Both are legitimate issues, but I think coaches would be more concerned about Quinn's. You can help a smart, inexperienced guy like Sanchez minimize his mistakes, but it's hard to fix a guy's accuracy issues. You can tinker with his mechanics, but you may just end up making things worse.

[Oldcrow1945]

If I were drafting him I'd want to be in the position where I don't have to hurry to make him a starter. Mostly due to his lack of playing time in College. Someone like Seattle who can take their time with him, although #4 is just too high I think.

 

I know it's not going to happen. Someone like the 49ers, Jets or Tampa will probably take him and possibly play him in a hurry. I'd rather give kid time to sit and learn and not rush him into a starting role. The one thing we hear all the time is the amazing difference in speed between college and the NFL. I want to give my QB time to adapt to this.

 

That's another reason I'm really excited about Quinn's chances of being successful. He's sat and watched and matured and is certainly in a lot better shape to take the reigns than he was two years ago.

[Timugen]

Good stuff. Alo. As an SC fan, I can tell you Sanchez is a fiery leader type and his team LOVES him. Very smart, got a 29 on the Wonderlic, mastered a complex offense, etc., all like Quinn. They're just very similar. I do think Sanchez is more consistently accurate, but I also think Quinn doesn't "lose the strike zone" as often as people think. You throw picks and complete a lower percentage if that's the case... not 69/14 and 63 percent under Weis.

They both have plenty of arm, like Manning and Brady. Not bazookas, but NFL arms.

 

I would see it as about a wash if not for Quinn's experience in Daboll's offense. Which is why I'd give Quinn the full season and just stop overthinking the whole matter.

 

 

Bingo. I never really understood this perceived accuracy problem. Sure he has (rather infrequent) times where he "loses the strike zone," but not any more so than the vast majority of starting QB's in the NFL.

 

It's pretty simple. If he had legitimate accuracy problems, he wouldn't have put up the sick (not just really good) numbers that he did.

 

 

EDIT: And just to put it in perspective...the scouts went ape-shit over Stafford's pro day (or was it the workout with the Lions?) where he threw 40-some passes and only 3 hit the ground. Quinn threw 63 passes on his pro day and only 5 hit the ground (and 4 of those were pinned on the receiver.) Newton and Einstein must have been Quinn fags.

[damajuki]

Here's the thing about Quinn's "losing the strike zone": he seemed to miss the easy throws much more frequently than the hard ones.

 

I remember him throwing balls in the dirt at running back's feet or overthrowing TE outs.

 

I do NOT remember him sailing throws over WRs into safeties hands or throwing pick 6's to MLBs (cough, DA, cough).

 

Put another way, Quinn's mistakes cost downs, not drives and rarely ever points. His incompletions wouldn't ruin the whole offensive scheme or put ND behind the eight ball.

 

I'd love to see the breakdown on Quinn's incompletions in college and how accurate he was downfield versus medium vs. short. You know NFL teams have that stuff. Would be fascinating to see if my recollection is accurate.

 

Ha. No pun intended...

[Timugen]

I remember him throwing balls in the dirt at running back's feet or overthrowing TE outs.

 

 

Exactly. And the funny thing is that most of the times those off-target throws would come very early in the game, usually the first series....and then he'd settle down and all would be fine.

 

His biggest accuracy issue that I have noticed was every once in a while sailing an out to the blonde in the 1st row very early in the game. I don't know if it's just because he was too hyped-up, but he wouldn't continue to make those bad throws throughout the games.

 

Again, the whole perceived issue with Quinn's accuracy continues to baffle me.

 

 

 

You don't put up the numbers he did if you are inaccurate. And of his 3 best receivers (who set some ND records themselves) over his Junior and Senior year:

 

1 is playing baseball

1 is fighting with everything he has just to stay on an NFL roster, much less see the field

1 went undrafted, got signed as UDFA, released, signed, released....and is probably selling insurance now

[ballpeen]

I agree...I don't know where that stuff comes from, but then I haven't seen the kid play very often. I have seen a trend to check-down much like Couch did....which i don't like, but it is way tosoon to say that is something that is going to be a problem.

 

This is the kids 3rd year. He's had the proper seasoning and has had enough play time to be over the rookie jitters. He should be able to come out and play well.

 

It isn't going to take 20 games, or even 8 games to be able to tell if he has it or he doesn't.

 

That doesn't mean he can't improve with each outing over the next 20 games, but it should be pretty easy to see where his floor is.

 

It's hard to tell where a ceiling might end, but that floor is pretty easy to spot pretty early in the process. History shows most qbs have a similar rage between the floor and ceiling, so once you know where the floor might be, it gives you a pretty good idea of where he may top out.

[Guest Aloysius]

IIRC, there were concerns about Quinn's accuracy getting spotty when he faced a lot of pressure. Also, some people criticized Quinn for throwing a lot of high passes, though others claimed that Weis purposely had him put the ball in a spot only his tall receivers could reach.

 

[Guest Masters]

Every QB's accuracy gets spotty when he faces a lot of pressure.

 

Quinn's knock was more about his deep ball accuracy getting spotty, and every now and then him having a throw that was way off for no reason at all.

[PlaygroundLegend]

The video of Quinns pro day where Weiss says that Quinn threw 65 passes, 5 hit the ground, 1 was his fault, he also throws many bombs. That not only shows skill, but endurance as well

 

 

[Guest Aloysius]

Every QB's accuracy gets spotty when he faces a lot of pressure.

Okay, but I'm sure they're not all affected to the same degree.

 

Here's part of BQ's old nfldraftscout scouting report. You can see what they said about his alleged accuracy issues:

 

Negatives: Shows some elusiveness on the run, but won't frighten any defense when having to carry the ball (out in the open, he simply lacks the elusiveness to gain positive yardage)...Not the type who can consistently make plays with his feet...Used to drop the ball and pat it a bit, but with his improved over-the-top release point, he was able to generate better quickness with his tosses...When he throws with a long arc, he doesn't always follow through (mostly on deep outs)...Will still sometimes force the receiver to adjust a bit on crossing patterns and needs to take something off his passes when dumping off, but can drop the ball over the top...Does not have that overpowering arm to lead the receivers going deep, but can put good touch on those throws (showed good improvement with his trajectory, but when going long on the move, he did make his receivers adjust a bit)...Has better timing when taking a three-step drop, but may hold the ball a little too long, resulting in sacks when he takes a longer (five-step) drop...Has good movement skills for a tall quarterback to avoid and elude the pass rush, but must continue to work on ball security (10 fumbles his first two years, but only three in 2005), as he leaves the ball too exposed when on the move...Can throw on the run, but needs to do a better job of squaring his shoulders when delivering the ball (plays on his feet, but you see that he loses some of his accuracy when throwing on the move).

I'm not saying that this is a huge problem for him - just that Sanchez is a more accurate passer.

[damajuki]

IIRC, there were concerns about Quinn's accuracy getting spotty when he faced a lot of pressure. Also, some people criticized Quinn for throwing a lot of high passes, though others claimed that Weis purposely had him put the ball in a spot only his tall receivers could reach.

I've never heard this before, but it may very well have been the case. Let's not forget Quinn had Stovall and Samardzija (both over 6'4) and Fasano then Carlson at TE (also big guys). So it's entirely possible Weis programmed him that way.

 

Whatever his accuracy issue is or may be, here's the only number I really care about:

 

14.

 

As in INTs his senior year.

 

And 3 of those 14 were in the UM game when ND was down over 20 at the half and passing the entire second half. Again, I challenge anyone to find more than 1 or 2 really awful Quinn INTs from his senior year. They just don't exist.

 

Which bodes well for him in the pro's, I think.

[Lumbergh]

OVERALL GRADE: 7.06

 

John David Booty was a better QB than Dirty Sanchez.

 

Whoever produces these number ratings for players needs to go back to playing World of Warcraft with their dork friends.