NFL Post on Browns, Broncos and Quinn

[Chip Banks]

FROM TONY GROSSI OF THE CLEVELAND PLAIN DEALER… So there’s (Brady) Quinn, still not endorsed by the Browns as their starting quarterback as he enters his third season. And there’s (Josh) McDaniels in Denver, filled with positive feedback about Quinn from Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis, whom McDaniels adores as an offensive football coach. If McDaniels can’t trust Weis, then who can he trust? Trading the No. 18 pick to the Browns for Quinn (who was taken 22nd in 2007) makes so much sense for the Broncos, I can’t believe it hasn’t happened yet. They get a young quarterback schooled in McDaniels’ system whom the new coach can develop and appoint as the face of his team going forward. Denver also saves its No. 12 pick for much-needed defensive help. The Browns then would own picks No. 5 and No. 18 and could use them accordingly to address their many needs.

 

NFL POST COMMENTARY

 

There’s a huge perception among fans in Cleveland that Brady Quinn is a quality starting quarterback in the NFL. Fueling this fire is Charlie Weis and his evaluation of Quinn. But what Weis thinks, and what others who worked for and with Weis at New England think, are vastly different. And no matter how close they may be, there’s nothing that Weis can say to change their mind. In fact, when McDaniels was on the staff at NE, the Patriots did not have Quinn very high on their board, regardless of the wisdom stemming from Weis’ evaluation.

 

Taking this one step further, there were some well-respected personnel men in the NFL who did not want to take the Browns job (prior to Eric Mangini becoming the main man) because they didn’t feel Quinn could be the starter. The expectations of the fans with regard to Quinn are enormous, and sometimes this can burden a franchise.

 

I feel the Browns are not done trying to improve the quarterback position. Quinn may be the starter, but he will have to prove to the new staff that he can make all the throws and can be accurate with the ball on every level, something that has not been consistent during his short NFL career.

 

Quinn played in three games last season and was 45 of 89 passing, a 50.6-percent completion percentage. Those stats include his game against a very bad Broncos defense in which he was 23 of 35. If you remove that game, Quinn was 22 of 54 in the other games, less than 50-percent completion. Accuracy is something that’s hard to fix. NFL accuracy is putting the ball into tight spots and making sure the ball is thrown in the right zone so the receiver can make yards after the catch. This isn’t easy for Quinn. One of the reasons he was drafted late in the first round was because in every area of his play, he wasn’t accurate — in game tape, in practice and in his workout on campus at Notre Dame. In that workout, his ball was all over the place and he made his wideouts work for the catch while throwing against air. His deep ball was very poor, and this lack of accuracy was the main reason so many teams passed on him in the first round.

 

Despite that, Quinn will still have a chance to prove many wrong with his play. But until he can show with each practice that his accuracy has improved, the Browns will keep searching for their franchise quarterback.

 

I think part of this evaluation is dead on. I've seen nothing to lead me to conclude that Quinn is destined for NFL stardom. Yet there are so many people saying things like if the Browns trade Quinn, they are done with the Browns. Why is that? Yeah, the Browns gave up a lot to get him. So what? Phil Savage's history with QBs has included drafting Redman and our last hometown hero "Charlie". He rated Redman as a first round talent and told the media that Charlie was drafted "in the right spot" with a top pick in the third round. And the Quinn deal is almost a hiccup of the Boller deal. Savage supporters like to blame that one on the coach, but there was a USA today article right after the draft highlighting how the move -- to get Boller at that position in the draft -- was a brain-child of Savage that he came up with during his morning run on the "what if" notion that Boller would "slip" in the draft. He was taken at 19 for a second and first round pick. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/dr...gs-boller_x.htm To date, his best QB draft pick (speculation aside) is Anderson. He got one good year out of a sixth round pick. But that was nothing but an echo of the Josh Harris signing off the Raven's practice squad. Bottom line is that we're resting some assumptions on Savage's ability to judge QB talent -- a skill that led us down the path of trading for Trent Dilfer and drafting Charlie Frye.

 

I don't want to count Quinn out. But I don't have unrealistic expectations for him either. My expectation is that Quinn will be at least as good as Steve Walsh. I couldn't blame the current Browns organization for trying to get their Troy Aikman.

[NewEraDawg]

That pretty much summed it up for me . Quinn has to prove he is as good as advertised . I am beginning to believe Savage's genius is becoming more clear . I also remember him slurping on Jamarcus Russell and he is still an unproven commodity .

[OconRecon]

Meh.

 

Its off season. We have nothing else to do but be hopeful - and there is nothing wrong with that. Half the reason fans are so over the top for Quinn is they don't want to see the 33rd ranked QB take the helm again, so they praise Quinn heavily.

 

I hope all of these naysayers and ne're-do-wells place a big chip on Quinn's shoulder, akin to the Emmit Smith approach. Emmit was told he was too short and too small from when he was a child. Keep telling Quinn he can't do it and his arm is too weak, and his work ethic will kick in giving him the best chance for success.

 

The local fans may be pumping up Quinn, but the rest of the nation seems to want to bash him. Personally, I hope Quinn jams it down their throat.

 

Quinn to win.

[BrownIndian]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !

 

 

All I know is - at this point we do not know enough of Quinn to judge him. He may be good or he may be bad but if we dont give him enough games we cannot prove a squat about his talent. It is all assumptions.

 

Let him play a few games ... we can decide after that.

[Greythan]

Who's disagreeing with the assessment in that article? The long-time posters here who are casually referred to as Quinn supporters would all agree with the assessment: Quinn remains unproven.

 

The contention all along has been we should (and should have already) removed the "unproven" label. Let's see what we actually have.

 

Oh, and if Quinn is "inaccurate" based on what I've seen in his brief NFL play, how the hell would you characterize DA?

[choco]

eratic....but your not doing any favors to quinn by making comparisons to DA's shortcomings.

 

 

 

[Greythan]

Don't misunderstand me. I think DA is horribly inconsistent and as inaccurate a short passer as I've ever seen.

 

Quinn, on the other hand, looks to be very accurate on short/intermediate passes.

 

So, my point was that if there is a legitimate, if not just consistent, concern about Quinn's accuracy, what does that say about DA?

[Lumbergh]

The one thing that has me in the camp to give Quinn a shot is the fact this kid's work ethic is through the roof, all he does is study and lift. Guys with that kind of work ethic rarely disappoint.

 

You don't know what Quinn's work ethic is.

 

And you don't know how his work ethic would compare to anybody else's work ethic either.

 

you just have a crush. On a dude. Becaue he has big arms. Fag.

[Lumbergh]

Quinn, on the other hand, looks to be very accurate on short/intermediate passes.

 

No he doesn't. He's got a 49% completion percentage.

 

Even you yourself just said he is "unproven", in your last post.

 

And we all know that when BQ Nation says "unproven" they mean that he's sucked so far and they hope he gets it someday.

 

 

[choco]

You don't know what Quinn's work ethic is.

 

And you don't know how his work ethic would compare to anybody else's work ethic either.

 

you just have a crush. On a dude. Becaue he has big arms. Fag.

im one of a very few that doesn't lambaste you on a regular basis.....but i must admit that you are making that increasingly difficult.

 

your guilty of that same of which you accuse the quinn fags....the reality is, no matter how bad quinn really is, it does not make DA any better. while i agree with your assessment that quinn isn't the messiah of cleveland, DA isn't either.....and the angle which you approach any quinn fans suggests that your oblivious to your own man-crush.

[PlaygroundLegend]

The chip on Quinns shoulder is getting larger and larger by the day, he is gonna go ballistic this year because of it. Were gonna see some damn good football this year.

 

Quinn is a gamer, he may not look good at workouts or practice, but when the lights and cameras come on and the crowd begins to roar, he is filled with determination and drive.

 

Kellen did say that Brady Works harder than anyone he knows

[Guest AdaM]

No he doesn't. He's got a 49% completion percentage.

 

Even you yourself just said he is "unproven", in your last post.

 

And we all know that when BQ Nation says "unproven" they mean that he's sucked so far and they hope he gets it someday.

 

 

 

Are you really so ignorant as to seriously count the last 2 games Quinn started the extent of his ability?

 

Do you realize that he had a broken finger and detached tendon starting in the first quarter of the Buffalo game?

 

Do you just choose to ignore that fact? Or are you so fuking ignorant that you think that would not affect his play at all and he just suddenly forgot how to complete pass - after pass like in the Denver game?

 

Fuking tool.

[Lumbergh]

Kellen did say that Brady Works harder than anyone he knows

 

Kellen also skipped all the voluntary workouts last year.

 

Maybe he watched the weightroom on a webcam from San Diego?

[Lumbergh]

Do you realize that he had a broken finger and detached tendon starting in the first quarter of the Buffalo game?

 

So did this horrific injury that he claimed DIDN'T BOTHER HIM happen before or after his 1-8 start in Buffalo?

 

And was this horrific injury also hampering him during the 26-6 defeat to Detroilet in which he played the first 3 qtrs?

 

[Lumbergh]

no matter how bad quinn really is, it does not make DA any better.

 

Of course not.

 

But it's the reason DA has started 24 games and Quinn has started 3 over the last two seasons.

 

[Guest AdaM]

So did this horrific injury that he claimed DIDN'T BOTHER HIM happen before or after his 1-8 start in Buffalo?

 

And was this horrific injury also hampering him during the 26-6 defeat to Detroilet in which he played the first 3 qtrs?

 

 

Ok, Retard.

 

Do you think any player is actually going to admit that an injury is affecting him when he just was handed the starting gig?

 

"hey coach, my fingers kinda xxxxed up, I dont think I wanna play anymore. Better Put Dorsey in."

 

 

 

You're a total moron.

[Chip Banks]

If Quinn stays, great. I'll be hoping with everyone else on opening day that he ends up being Montana and not Mirer. Realistically, though I'm thinking Beuerlein.

 

If Mangini moves him for the 18th pick, I will not second guess him. I'm not sure why anyone would at this point. That Opie gave more value is a barometer of nothing. Take Boller, Redman and Frye and they aren't worth the fourth rounder he blew to trade for Dilfer.

 

As for accuracy, what little we've seen on the NFL level really can't be used to suggest that Quinn is inaccurate. Of course we aren't on the practice field and have to cut him some slack for playing with a broken finger. But Walsh was a smart AND accurate passer. Teams found out that he couldn't throw the deep out and that was pretty much his career.

[plumcrazy73]

Kellen also skipped all the voluntary workouts last year.

 

Maybe he watched the weightroom on a webcam from San Diego?

 

 

maybe he watched Quinn work out at the manditory workouts and throughout the year.

 

That is one thing that pisses me off with people and with the media they make a big deal cause someone misses a VOLUNTARY workout. they are voluntary not mandatory. if the NFL and the teams want them to be there no questions asked they need to make it mandatory.

[plumcrazy73]

Of course not.

 

But it's the reason DA has started 24 games and Quinn has started 3 over the last two seasons.

 

 

DA started 24 games due to injury at first, or stalled play (when Frye was here) then he won the starting job by default, cause we traded Frye away. then Quinn held out, and roade the pine, and DA got hot and had a good run the 1st half. STALLED the second, was average at best. and did not improve last year over the second half of 07, he got those 24 starts because of the hot 1st half in 07 and in spite of the stalled second half. He did not get them by being stellar. He got them cause the FO was trying to and hopeing he would stay red hot and pick up from where he stalled at.

 

Quinn was only benched last year cause of the finger injury.

[plumcrazy73]

You don't know what Quinn's work ethic is.

 

And you don't know how his work ethic would compare to anybody else's work ethic either.

 

you just have a crush. On a dude. Becaue he has big arms. Fag.

 

you are trying to call someone out on a man crush. lol that would be like Tammy Faye Baker making fun of someone for wearing too much make-up

[Oldcrow1945]

I think all this evaluating of a guy that has played a couple games in the NFL is beyond rediculous....It's just amazing to me!

 

I have no particular love for Quinn and as an OSU fan I absolutely hate ND......But you have to be freaking kidding me with this stuff!! Look how many great Qb's could've been thrown away if you decided their fate after Two games?

I'm sorry, but for anyone to make the conclusion that the guy isn't going to be a solid NFL QB after two or three games is simply trying to find fault with him.

If you are finding fault with him then you are simply a biased jackass with nothing better to do than hate on someone that you don't like for whatever reason your shallow mind can come up with.

Even the statement in the title thread which claims that the Cleveland fans have huge expectations and that alone can burden a franchise is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. You draft him, pay him and play him for awhile to see what happens....Where is this huge burden? It's actually rather simple. It's not rocket science Tony. Well, for Tony it might as well be.

Trivasonno is right...Grossi is the biggest dumbass in the Cleveland media.

 

This team has invested years and millions on this kid and we should listen to a guy like Tony Grossi? I'm ROTFL!!!!

 

I think I'll only refer to Grossi as "Tony the Crystal ball" from now on.

[Chip Banks]

Trivasonno is right...Grossi is the biggest dumbass in the Cleveland media.

 

This team has invested years and millions on this kid and we should listen to a guy like Tony Grossi? I'm ROTFL!!!!

 

I think I'll only refer to Grossi as "Tony the Crystal ball" from now on.

 

Not sure anyone would disagree with you on Grossi. If you'd read the post, however, you'd see that it was a comment from an NFL Post writer responding to Grossi's article and stating that Grossi was likely jumping to some faulty conclusions when he speculated that Quinn for #18 from the Broncos is a match made in heaven. The evaluations of Quinn are not Grossi's -- they are the well-documented reasons for Quinn's slide to #22 on draft day.

 

And is there a bigger dumb ass than Trivassono himself? Hello pot, meet kettle.

[cmac12]

I don't think you know what BQ is going to be. But, because he has not been given a chance to prove it on the field does not make him untouchable either. If you could get good value for him you trade him. I see allot of people saying DA got his chance not because he beat out Frye but because Frye sucked. Well BQ did not beat out DA, he is getting his shot for the same reason.

 

Because somebody does not think BQ is the answer does not mean that they think DA is. I fully support DA but he is done in cleveland. He needs to go to have any real shot at future success. But, I am not sold on BQ either. If he is on the team this year then he should and will start. But if the right offer is made then you pull the trigger and trade him. This is not Baltimore, the defense is not going to win the game (yet). You are going to have to have a offense that can outscore some opponents.

 

And if we are going to compare DA and BQ this will be a good year for it. Has started 3 games, is 24 and has a new offense and coaching staff to deal with. Real familiar to DA. Also has BE coming off a not so great year, another similarity. So I expect to see BQ put up 3800 yards, 29tds, hopefully less than 19 ints and to win 10 games. And to have a few receivers have career years. Since BQ is supposed to be better than DA I also expect him to improve as the year goes along and to not regress when the defenses game plan for him. I think that will be fair to ask for this yea

[Gips]

Im a browns fan first and foremost but there is no improving the qb situation this year whomever starts is going to have a rough go of it period..

When it comes to bq im a little bit of a homer but ultimately im for the browns winning rather with bq as the starter or sanchez is irrelevent as long as its not DA..

 

As a ND as well as an OSU fan ive seen most of bqs games over the years and i think he gets a bum wrap however he does have some issues as does all qbs coming out of college ball to the pros..

 

Quinn is a natural leader and can be very accurate in the short game and medium game..it is true he is inconsistant with the longball just like DA at ND he often made the wideouts work for the catch often under pressure but like DA quinn can also land some nice bombs in ways DA couldnt dream of like while backpeddling..

 

DA has to be planted to deliver a strike accurately or not period..BQ can deliver a deep strike on the move,backpeddling and even with only one foot planted..he has an arc to his deep ball unlike DA who just fires an incredible lazer shot as long as he has his feet planted with adequate protection otherwise it ussually gets picked..

 

If mankok starts bq,sanchez or stafford he still has honeymoon mode if he decides to go with DA or any retread honeymoon is over..gotta allow time for rookies and bench rookies that have been screwed but i cant tolorate wasted time on a vet that wont be around next year when the time could have been spent evaluating new talent instead of wasting time with someone elses leftovers..

[Oldcrow1945]

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say here Cmac with one exception, your expectations of BQ MIGHT be a bit high only because the strength of schedule we will face this year is much harder than the one DA faced in 2007.

 

You could argue if it's a harder schedule all day long. But it can't be "Much harder".

 

It will be basically set up the same way due the the NFL scheduling formula. This years shedule is also packed with last place and next to last place teams.

 

 

LIONS

CHIEFS

BRONCOS

BILLS

JAGS

RAIDERS

BENGALS twice.

 

Right there is 8 winnable games.

[Oldcrow1945]

Wow, you're only giving BQ 8 games to prove his worth? That's a pretty tall order considering that EM is getting rid of every offensive weapon we had and filing it the David Pattens of the world.

 

 

Are you responding to my post?

 

If so, I'm not implying that at all....not sure why you think I am.

[Oldcrow1945]

No I was replying to JADBF...

 

Gotcha