Mr. T Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Cliff Lee, for a guy who had great success as the #5 guy in the rotation last season, and after winning the Cy Young award, does not make him the #1 guy in the rotation. I picked Lee up last season after a couple of guys were injured. I was happy to get him knowing that he would do well in the #5 spot matching up most of the time against other teams #5 guys. What The HELL is Wedge and Shitpiro thinking? I could see Lee as a #3 guy in the rotation but not at #1 but after the start we are looking at right now by the Tribe maybe they had no other alternative. Because our pitching Sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 It's 4 games into the season. Let's let guys get a couple of starts before we start throwing them overboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Agreed; this first go around with our rotation has been hideous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Getting rocked in spring, even though it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, definitely didn't help him. It seems like his whole career he's been a guy that's hesitant to use his curveball (until last year). The spin in spring training was he just wanted to locate his fastball. We'll see if after a couple more starts, eventually he starts keeping the fastball at the knees and starts dropping his curve off the table, and gets back to at least being a reliable pitcher. Fausto is a total wildcard to me. I know Paul at the Diatribe was saying he's the biggest key to the season, since he's really the only other pitcher capable of being a dominant #2, but also the possibility of going back to his '08 level...and I agree. I think he deserves a couple more starts too, see if he can stay calm and throw strikes. I think he bounces back. Pavano won't be here long. Sure it was against a good offense in a windy, hitter friendly ballpark...but he didn't show anything that made you think "eh, he might turn it around." He won't see June. I thought Lewis looked great his first time through the lineup yesterday, not sure if the Blue Jays figured him out or he just made a few mistakes. I'm not worried about him either, he'll be serviceable pitcher and will probably get better as the year goes on. Seems like it's all up to Bean's man Reyes now. If he stays healthy he'll probably move up to #3 in the rotation. Right now I'll just be satisfied with an ERA in the single digits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Agreed; this first go around with our rotation has been hideous I'd certainly agree with that. Pitching has been the worry. But I won't panic or pass judgement just yet on any of the guys. Though Lee is not helping his cause today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Cliff Lee, for a guy who had great success as the #5 guy in the rotation last season, and after winning the Cy Young award, does not make him the #1 guy in the rotation. I picked Lee up last season after a couple of guys were injured. I was happy to get him knowing that he would do well in the #5 spot matching up most of the time against other teams #5 guys. What The HELL is Wedge and Shitpiro thinking? I could see Lee as a #3 guy in the rotation but not at #1 but after the start we are looking at right now by the Tribe maybe they had no other alternative. Because our pitching Sucks! 1,2,3,4,5, in the rotation means squat......all that counts is if you can throw and spot strikes and then you win otherwise you get your assre pounded.......Nothing Lee has ever done proves he is a dominant pitcher and nothing he has done this year proves he was fluke last year give him a few more chances to .........get the ball throwing.so to speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalBrownsFan Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 0-5....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Cliff Lee, for a guy who had great success as the #5 guy in the rotation last season, and after winning the Cy Young award, does not make him the #1 guy in the rotation. I picked Lee up last season after a couple of guys were injured. I was happy to get him knowing that he would do well in the #5 spot matching up most of the time against other teams #5 guys. What The HELL is Wedge and Shitpiro thinking? The way Cliff pitched last year it didn't matter who was on the mound opposite of him. When your ERA is in the low 2's you are going to win a lot of game regardless. I think CIMO touched on his problem....the guy gets it in his head that he can throw fastballs by batters. Last year it seemed like 85% of his pitches were that nasty curve. He isn't throwing anywhere near that kind of percentage this year. I am at a complete loss as to why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanpot Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I'd certainly agree with that. Pitching has been the worry. But I won't panic or pass judgement just yet on any of the guys. Though Lee is not helping his cause today Yeah, I'm not going to panic either...yet. Though a loss today would sure push me in that direction. Hammy said we haven't started a season at 0-6 since 1914 or something. We know they're not a 100 loss team (I hope) so it's probably best to just look at this like we would any other bad stretch in a long season. Good news is the rest of the Central is barely treading water while we're drowning. Beanpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 . Good news is the rest of the Central is barely treading water while we're drowning. Beanpot Amen to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I know its from football but this quote applies to all sports, Winning breads Winners and Losing breads Losers. - Marty Schottenheimer, That was his explanation for always having a winning pre-season. It holds true, winning builds confidence. Watching the Cavs today and how they man handled Boston was great. I am sure the cavs left Boston doubting themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Yeah, I'm not going to panic either...yet. Though a loss today would sure push me in that direction. Hammy said we haven't started a season at 0-6 since 1914 or something. We know they're not a 100 loss team (I hope) so it's probably best to just look at this like we would any other bad stretch in a long season. Good news is the rest of the Central is barely treading water while we're drowning. Beanpot For me it still goes to Dolan who is cheap and that is proven and Shapiro who has been proving he is not good enough to overcome Shapiro's cheapness and Wedge who cannot perform miracles with what is supplied by Dolan and Shapiro. I think the Indians future is hit and miss.............and hopefully an occasional home run. I loved John Hart's formula ..............get the greatest hitters and keep them and hope you get enough pitchers every year to get to the promised land I really miss those Indians teams of the late nineties that was some ride. I hope they turn it around but I feel they are in a division with great competition and will have a tough time to be more than .500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG71097 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 The way Cliff pitched last year it didn't matter who was on the mound opposite of him. When your ERA is in the low 2's you are going to win a lot of game regardless. I am at a complete loss as to why. Simply put Cliff lee doesn't have the control/location this year that he had last year. If you can go back and watch his starts, he just isn't hitting his spots with any regularity (I suppose the same can be said for all the starters on the staff this spring) Watch where Shoppach or Vic sets up and give him a target and then they have to move their glove to catch the ball usually back out over the plate. Last year he could paint the outside black or hit the glove without it moving Just ain't happening yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIMO. Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Getting rocked in spring, even though it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, definitely didn't help him. It seems like his whole career he's been a guy that's hesitant to use his curveball (until last year). The spin in spring training was he just wanted to locate his fastball. We'll see if after a couple more starts, eventually he starts keeping the fastball at the knees and starts dropping his curve off the table, and gets back to at least being a reliable pitcher. I'm not one to toot my own lower horn (Futurama anyone?) but this is pretty much exactly what I saw today. Jumping ahead 0-1 with low fastballs on the corners, then finishing hitters by dropping that curveball. Great start for him and hopefully he keeps it going, and the rest of the team doesn't dig us into too deep a hole before the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandFanForLife Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Simply put Cliff lee doesn't have the control/location this year that he had last year. If you can go back and watch his starts, he just isn't hitting his spots with any regularity (I suppose the same can be said for all the starters on the staff this spring) Watch where Shoppach or Vic sets up and give him a target and then they have to move their glove to catch the ball usually back out over the plate. Last year he could paint the outside black or hit the glove without it moving Just ain't happening yet it happened last night, but the tribe couldn't even put up a run for him. wedge has to be dreading when his phone rings hoping it's not mark shapiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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