OK It's Official....

[hoorta]

We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.

 

True OBF- but this is disappointing. If Parkay hadn't melted in the Miami heat, at least we'd have a win to hang our hats on. Going back to last year, we're at 13 losses in a row and counting. If we hadn't beaten the 49ers, Tampa's all time futility record would be in reach this year. Now that's what I'd call REALLY bad.

 

Agree on that.

 

This is hard to watch, but I feel it's going to be better next season. No sense bailing on our team folks.

 

Oh, I"m not bailing- my feelings have gone from apathy, to comic relief, to anger. The current team is a national joke- and I'm not happy about it.

[hoorta]

I think good coaching makes mediocre talent better. When you have bad coaching and questionable talent you have the Cleveland Browns defense. I guarandamntee you that if Dick LeBeau or Bill Belichick were our DC things would not look like this.

 

As I said in my OP, how many times did The Ravens have to run that slant over the middle for Horton to figure out what he was doing wasn't working? Heck, try for holding or interference, don't just let them run free right over the middle.

 

It's either that or the Browns have the worst secondary in recent NFL history. The coverage was virtually nonexistent.

[Tour2ma]

We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.

It also goes to players. The coaches can't go out and do the tackling. Was it really O'Neils fault last year or he didn't have enough talent on defense? Of course we were paying for a defense that didn't perform with having the highest paid defense in the NFL at the time.

 

Two fer two... We old guys need to stick together somewhere.

 

 

Even on the D-side I don't think Horton is responsible... accountable, but not responsible. The difference I see between he and O'neil/Pettine is that Ray is to my eye adapting better to the talent available. Not a high bar and certainly not transferring to the bottom line, but I still see it.

 

The assistant staff? Different story and a case for change I made a few days ago. It is on position coaches to make sure position players are ready to play. If that they are not is clear to us, then it is certainly clear to Horton.

 

Tackling? Every player we put on the field knows how to "tackle". Some may be more interested in doing it than others, but even great Defenders have not liked to tackle, e.g., Deion Sanders. And even those that love contact the most can't tackle if they are not blessed with the innate tools to consistently get in position to tackle. And even those that love it and have the tools, occasionally miss one. Sometimes this is attributable to their individual failure, but often it can be due to the failure of other, less gifted teammates around them to fill their role in a given set.

 

Secondary wise... certainly there was a fall off from Gipson to Poyer, but the loss of Poyer deepened the Safety deficit even further. Slot DB? We don't seem to have found a replacement for our replacement for Skrine. But on the bright side (if there is one) Haden has somewhat returned to form and in doing so has solidified Williams #2 role and his play has improved... last week's "banjo" miscommunication notwithstanding.

[The Gipper]

FYI, I heard a report from a guy from Pro Football Focus that except for Alex Mack..who is doing very well...pro bowl level, all the guys that the Browns let go are really not grading out much better if at all than the guys that we have hear now:

Kruger

The Schwartz

Gipson

Whitner

Dansby

Travis Benjamin.

and others....are not grading out very well at all.

 

Perhaps one of you with a PFF account can verify that.

[miktoxic]

well who's fault that there is no talent? someone has to take a hit for that. especially with the number of picks we had. not saying fire anyone but maybe an admission of suckle at your new job and promising to do better next year.

 

except all we get is crickets…………… and still no talent.

[Canton Dawg]

except all we get is crickets…………… and still no talent.

We also get a losing record...again.

[wargograw]

FYI, I heard a report from a guy from Pro Football Focus that except for Alex Mack..who is doing very well...pro bowl level, all the guys that the Browns let go are really not grading out much better if at all than the guys that we have hear now:

Kruger

The Schwartz

Gipson

Whitner

Dansby

Travis Benjamin.

and others....are not grading out very well at all.

 

Perhaps one of you with a PFF account can verify that.

Niiiiiice!

[Clevfan4life]

I think the defense has a serious coaching issue. Faulty coverage, poor tackling goes a lot to coaching. Next year we need a new DC....no doubt.

 

but it's gonna take Horton a couple years to weed out the guys that don't wanna ball from the ones that listen to what he's telling them. I'm not the biggest fan of Horton but any defense can be competent given the time to roost. Can Horton build a legendary defense? I dunno, maybe not. Maybe at some point when we do have the right pieces someone else needs to come in and get them over.

[alporcini]

Once again, this is year 1 of a complete rebuild from FO to waterboy, with the owner stating - again - that we build through draft (... no high priced free agents...)

 

What were you expecting?

I will admit, their early season close games - even late game leads - led me to believe they would have squeaked out a win or two by now, but this was always a losing year.

 

it's the price you pay for the life you choose.

 

I can't understand anyone who expected more than this given those parameters - let alone anyone expecting a 'winning' - dare I say Super Bowl - team in less than a single year.

 

Instant gratification was never an option.

 

 

Agree wholeheartedly. (And apologize if I'm restating what has already been said)

 

Jimmy Johnson's first season as coach, the 89 Cowboys went 1–15. Johnson had an ability to find talent in the draft, make savvy trades (Herschel Walker), and by signing quality players as free agents.

 

​Sign Collins. Sign Pryor. In the last two week Haden has reminded, in flashes, what elite looks like. So does JT. Shelton is playing big. So is Kirksey. Ogbah has shown potential. So has Corey Coleman. And Nassib. I like Duke. The Crow.

 

​We have six current starters who I doubt will be on our roster next year... Ask me who in January... Let's just keeping seeing who are our keepers. And whom we need to replace.

 

Me? I like Hue. But he's a work in progress as well. He is an innovative offensive mind. If McKown had works out, it's a great chess move. We win one game; developed a taste for winning. He didn't so Hue gets crack backed. But at least he tried something different. Gotta applaud that. Biggest complaint with his coaching is second half adjustments. For the most part this season, we've been in games going into the half. Other teams adjust and eat our lunch, because we come out doing the same old thing we did in the first half. Gotta change it up. Almost as if you have two different game plans. One for each half of the battle. Let the opposing team spend half time trying to figure out what we're coming out and doing. Not just being complacent, especially after they know or scheme.

 

Is it Hue? Is it Horton? Tour said it right. Horton is not responsible... accountable, but not responsible. What I would like to see is an innovator on the defensive side of the ball. That Ravens D coach did a heck of a job with his unit. And he's straight out of college. Then again, he has Suggs, who I believe was the biggest defensive presence on both teams. But I liked what I saw from Collins. And there are two studs coming out in the draft.

 

If we play it smart, both on the field and in the front office, we're be two years away from contending. As someone pointed out, the Raiders are in year three.

 

I'm excited by what the future brings.

[miktoxic]

[One Post]

Hue must go along with the entire management. Hell, sell the team. I

That's the only time I've ever seen the words hell and sell side by side. Hell sell. Good use of a comma right there.

[Orion]

The Ghoul wanted Hue fired. (I know, nobody wants to hear what Ghoul thought)

 

But ya know what? From what I've been seeing lately out of Hue.....I want him gone too.

 

Not even ONE FREAKIN' PLAY FROM SCRIMMAGE in the game last night and we're calling time out.

We kicked off and then called time out. Wow. Game #10 and we're that freakin' clueless.

 

Then he pulls Kessler for no apparent reason and puts in the 37 year old QB...with a record of 0-9 we don't want to evaluate Kessler, nope, we wanna put in McCown. I could understand if Kessler was shitting the bed but geeze...1 td and 0 int's. Perhaps Hue was pissed at him cos he wouldn't heave the ball long to covered receivers......it seemed McCown felt that's what HE should do!

 

We need coaching continuity in the WORST way....but first ya gotta find the right guy....and I'm now thinking that we don't have the right guy. - I didn't believe it when Ghoul said it....but as the weeks have gone by (the episode just before the half in the Cincy game comes to mind), I've been seeing it with my own eyes. That's what it takes for me. I have to see it to believe it when it comes to football.

[flyingfooldoug]

We are the best losers in the league. For that there are people in Cleveland planning a parade for 0-16.....true. They suck on a historical basis. Go Cav's! Go Tribe! Browns Suck!

[Mudfly]

This is absolutely the worst team in the history of the Cleveland Browns, and it's not even close. Guys, I go back to 1958 if you're interested. The suckful teams of the 70s don't hold a candle to this shit.

 

Yup, we're "building for the future". Well, let's just look at the NOW for a second, can we?

 

There- that's my rant. I feel better now. Just don't give me shit on how "well" the young 'uns played. We got beat- and embarrassed 28-7. That don't mean jack shit when you're 0-10 with 0-16 on the very realistic horizon. Wow, Collins had a decent game- in the first half.

I hear ya Hoorta.....tis painful....

 

Worst part, for me, is that losing breaks things down.....it breaks players confidence......it breaks any continuity, cause things keep getting switched around....it eliminates any fun from their game......it wears the coaches down and devalues their work.....all things I predicted/said in the pre-season and then was shushed on.....

 

You can see the strain in Hues face and in the players words......quite brutal if that was their plan

 

And losing breeds losing......it is NOT how you develop a winning culture.....and it's not how you teach players to win.....

 

So....as Ive said a thousand times now.....if THIS is the plan.....its a bad one......just turrible.....

 

And, with a fist full of draft picks, we will add another 14 rookies next year?.....should be more of the same.....

[The Gipper]

 

but it's gonna take Horton a couple years to weed out the guys that don't wanna ball from the ones that listen to what he's telling them. I'm not the biggest fan of Horton but any defense can be competent given the time to roost. Can Horton build a legendary defense? I dunno, maybe not. Maybe at some point when we do have the right pieces someone else needs to come in and get them over.

I think we need a new, better voice at DC. Not this year, but next.