Just 3-4 players off

[The Gipper]

Watching the Browns game Sunday and I am thinking: Yes, the Steelers sat BR, Bell, Brown and Pouncey......and that is it as far as I could tell.

 

But lets face it.....the Browns actually dominated that game. If it were not for fuckup after fuckup after fuckup the Browns could have blown that game open. At least 3 turnovers in the red zone. Plus the botched snap that gave the Steelers the ball in Browns territory. The Browns ran through them like water...Crowe gaining 156 yards. Our receivers seemed fairly open for the most part.

 

Even with our defense being as purely shit as it is, the Browns still dominated.

 

Now, those are clearly 4 major components for the Steelers to have sat....but I think it demonstrates the parity that actually exists. To me, it is not a case of the Browns being so good....but a case of the Steelers actually NOT being an overall very good team. Those 3-4 components make them.

 

The other thing that is a difference is culture. Obviously the Browns have a losing culture. They couldn't fucking do anything but shoot themselves in the foot in this game. Any bizarre thing that could happen to lose a game does happen.

 

So....how do the Browns close that gap? A. Get a real, quality QB. B. Have a Corey Coleman or Terrelle Pryor or someone come in and become an A+ WR. C. Use our RBs with the same versatility that the Steelers use with Bell. (this is, I think, the easiest part) D.Get another top lineman or two.

E. Improve that defense. F. Improve the culture.

 

The hardest parts are A and F. Which I think are highly interlinked. But I think there is an easy solution to A. E is harder....but not really if the drafting is done properly.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I actually agree with this to some extent.

 

A franchise QB improves this team drastically on his own.

 

A playmaking edge rusher and at least one improvement to the secondary will go a long way toward shoring up the defense. This team is not bereft of talented players across the board, just bereft of talented players at key positions. TP, Collins, JT, Coleman, Crow, Duke, Bito, Pasztor, Shelton, Nassib, Haden, Kirksey, and Barnidge are all quality players, while Taylor, Hawkins, Greco, Orchard, Reynolds and Boddy-Calhoun are passable.

 

We do not need an overhaul, we need to inject a few top end players at high impact positions, and then this team would be well within competing range next year.

[The Gipper]

We do not need an overhaul, we need to inject a few top end players at high impact positions, and then this team would be well within competing range next year.

 

Precisely right. Of course it is very difficult getting those high impact players. Steelers had the luck of the dumbasses getting Brown in round 6. And they were somewhat lucky with BR....I mean, he could have been Blake Bortles.

 

Give us those 3 players.

[Tour2ma]

Also mostly in agreement here. My exceptions would be to:

• Point C... While you might make a case that Crow's talent approaches DeAngelo's, Bell is beyond comparison with anyone on our current roster.
• And Point F... "culture change" is at this juncture largely a product, not an input. The FO and staff have both done their jobs setting standards. Now it's the improvement that has to kick in.

[flyingfooldoug]

This topic. 3 or 4 players off? I agree! You put 3 or 4 HOFers on the team and we're golden.

[PoeticG]

Really, I agree with this. I would say that this year was a mirage. We had many freak things happen that turned the season sour.

 

The Browns saw two highly drafted players break their hands just as they were "getting it".

 

Two QBs break their shoulders, one of them had been groomed to be the starter early on in Pre-Season and it really threw us into disarray. He missed most of the season.

 

Desmond Bryant missed the year for some injury. That hurt our DL, I'm hoping he can return and play as well as he was.

 

Orchard missed the year. We played Schobert and others but Orchard is a good player, hoping he returns healthy.

 

We actually played with like 5 different QBs. One of them a converted WR...

 

It was a new coaching staff AND front office.

 

It was a new scheme on both offense and defense.

 

We had massive injuries on the offensive line and the offensive line coach was released before the season.

 

We were the youngest team in the league and had the most rookies I believe.

 

There were other reasons as well. I believe that we played Tough all season, we should have won 6 games at the minimum. There was that missed kick by Parkey after he joined the team hours before the game when we lost our starting kicker for the year in a walk-through.

 

Crazy season man, crazy indeed. But that mess is over with. Here we sit with the #1 pick of the draft, when in reality- I don't really believe that we are the worst team, just the team with the worst luck.

 

We have a chance to really make an enormous jump next year and we will Surprise a lot of teams. We have to get this right... and get Josh Gordon back.

[jcam222]

I am in lockstep on these comments as well. I believe we are the team that will surprise the shit out of folks next year. 3 to 4 key players will allow us to compete for the division title in my opinion.

[Harry Buffalo]

Not to say the team didn't get blown out several games this season, but you guys are spot on. How many times in previous years did we watch Browns teams with more talent than this one just quit on the season. At no point this season did I see our team just phone it in like in the past. Hell with nothing to play for we competed in the last two games and actually won one. We have not only have young talented players, but players who are motivated to be and get better. TP is telling his agent before going under the knife to try and get a deal done so he can stay with Hue.

 

I can't imagine us with a winning record next year, but I do see us being leaps and bounds better. Hell I'm excited to see what Kessler can do next year behind a healthy OL with hopefully a have way decent center.

[StinkHole]

Watching the Browns game Sunday and I am thinking: Yes, the Steelers sat BR, Bell, Brown and Pouncey......and that is it as far as I could tell.

 

But lets face it.....the Browns actually dominated that game. If it were not for fuckup after fuckup after fuckup the Browns could have blown that game open. At least 3 turnovers in the red zone. Plus the botched snap that gave the Steelers the ball in Browns territory. The Browns ran through them like water...Crowe gaining 156 yards. Our receivers seemed fairly open for the most part.

 

Even with our defense being as purely shit as it is, the Browns still dominated.

 

Now, those are clearly 4 major components for the Steelers to have sat....but I think it demonstrates the parity that actually exists. To me, it is not a case of the Browns being so good....but a case of the Steelers actually NOT being an overall very good team. Those 3-4 components make them.

 

The other thing that is a difference is culture. Obviously the Browns have a losing culture. They couldn't fucking do anything but shoot themselves in the foot in this game. Any bizarre thing that could happen to lose a game does happen.

 

So....how do the Browns close that gap? A. Get a real, quality QB. B. Have a Corey Coleman or Terrelle Pryor or someone come in and become an A+ WR. C. Use our RBs with the same versatility that the Steelers use with Bell. (this is, I think, the easiest part) D.Get another top lineman or two.

E. Improve that defense. F. Improve the culture.

 

The hardest parts are A and F. Which I think are highly interlinked. But I think there is an easy solution to A. E is harder....but not really if the drafting is done properly.

Along with the four on offense you mentioned sitting, they had issues on the D line. Starting tackle Tuitt didn't play. Hargraves left the game because of a concussion, was cleared but stayed on the bench anyway, and a backup Matthews injured his ankle earlier in the game.

 

But can you really make an accurate honest "feel good" analysis about this game when dangling over your head is the fact that this game was not a must win for the Steelers?

"Ryan Shazier says he's not happy (with the) Steelers attitude headed into this game," Kinkhabwala wrote on Twitter. "Says too many guys bought idea that it was 'meaningless.'"

 

 

Your analysis would be awesome if you knew for a fact that the Steelers had as much desire to win that game as the browns did. The browns wanted to win the finale in Pittsburgh BADLY!

Heard someone say some Steelers were yucking it up on the sidelines down 14-0.

 

Never saw Tomlin nearly laughing jogging off the field after a win...as if to be so amused at actually winning that game.

 

You mentioned the Browns fucking up a lot. Fuck yeah they fuck up a lot!

IMO this was easily a 4 win team take away the fuckups. The problem though is that its not just this year. For years fuck ups were why they lost many a game, and coaching changes have not seemed to help one iota. Cant understand it. They lost that way under Pettine, Chud, ...all of them. Fucking up transcends down from coach to coach.

[jiggins7919]

Yeah, I'm actually right there with you on this, BUT the severe problem is, the "3-4 players" we need just happen to be some of the most difficult positions to fill. We need a QB (duh...), and it's not like we haven't been trying for 15 years. We need a dominant edge rusher. Those are the two most difficult positions to nail in the draft or otherwise, and they could both drastically alter the trajectory of our team.

[The Gipper]

 

Also mostly in agreement here. My exceptions would be to:

• Point C... While you might make a case that Crow's talent approaches DeAngelo's, Bell is beyond comparison with anyone on our current roster.
• I think I said that the combination of Crowe and Duke give us a package of diversity that Bell brings on his own. If they were utilized properly...those two could come close to equally the productivity that Bell puts out.
• And Point F... "culture change" is at this juncture largely a product, not an input. The FO and staff have both done their jobs setting standards. Now it's the improvement that has to kick in.
• Well, the "Culture" may be more than a product and an input combined. It is the most intangible factor....and the hardest to grasp how to change.

 

[The Gipper]

This topic. 3 or 4 players off? I agree! You put 3 or 4 HOFers on the team and we're golden.

Do you think those 3-4 Steelers are HOF? BR is. Bell/Brown....if they maintain current production levels surely could be on their way.

 

So, yes, I guess you are right. Browns are only 3 Hall of Fame players away. Or at least high impact players. I don't really debate that. It was sort of my point.

[The Gipper]

Along with the four on offense you mentioned sitting, they had issues on the D line. Starting tackle Tuitt didn't play. Hargraves left the game because of a concussion, was cleared but stayed on the bench anyway, and a backup Matthews injured his ankle earlier in the game.

I don't need you to tell us about a list of Steeler players that were injured. Just as many or more Browns players had injuries.

 

But can you really make an accurate honest "feel good" analysis about this game when dangling over your head is the fact that this game was not a must win for the Steelers?

"Ryan Shazier says he's not happy (with the) Steelers attitude headed into this game," Kinkhabwala wrote on Twitter. "Says too many guys bought idea that it was 'meaningless.'"

 

 

 

Your analysis would be awesome if you knew for a fact that the Steelers had as much desire to win that game as the browns did. The browns wanted to win the finale in Pittsburgh BADLY!

Heard someone say some Steelers were yucking it up on the sidelines down 14-0.

 

Look....I know you want to make the excuse that the Steelers were being feckless toward this game.....but I don't buy it as these guys are paid professionals. I stick by the proposition that but for the 3-4 players mentioned, the Browns and Steelers are actually very equal in talent....and that is because I don't think the Browns are all that good, but that save for the guys mentioned, the Steelers aren't that good.

 

Never saw Tomlin nearly laughing jogging off the field after a win...as if to be so amused at actually winning that game.

 

You mentioned the Browns fucking up a lot. Fuck yeah they fuck up a lot!

IMO this was easily a 4 win team take away the fuckups. The problem though is that its not just this year. For years fuck ups were why they lost many a game, and coaching changes have not seemed to help one iota. Cant understand it. They lost that way under Pettine, Chud, ...all of them. Fucking up transcends down from coach to coach.

Hello! McFly! Is anybody home? Read my post. I said that the Steelers have the advantage with their 3-4 good players....AND the differenced in culture.

Were you trying to inform us of something or did you just intend to parrot what I said?

[The Gipper]

Yeah, I'm actually right there with you on this, BUT the severe problem is, the "3-4 players" we need just happen to be some of the most difficult positions to fill. We need a QB (duh...), and it's not like we haven't been trying for 15 years. We need a dominant edge rusher. Those are the two most difficult positions to nail in the draft or otherwise, and they could both drastically alter the trajectory of our team.

Actually, the 3-4 positions are the QB, OC, and WR mainly.

 

I think the combo of Crowe/Duke could....given proper circumstances, match Bell in production. We got nobody to match A. Brown...I don't think. (Does anyone think that Coleman or Pryor can do that?).

We had an OC as good as Pouncey in Mack. But he is gone. But I think that if Elflein or Pocic are drafted that the Browns could make up some ground there.

 

The big one, of course is QB. And I think I know a guy that we can get that can at least give us a chance there for the future.

 

And someone said: coaching. Well, yes....I don't have an answer for that.

[Douche Nozzle]

This thread made me chuckle!

 

You never learn.....and that's what makes you funny

[jiggins7919]

Actually, the 3-4 positions are the QB, OC, and WR mainly.

 

I think the combo of Crowe/Duke could....given proper circumstances, match Bell in production. We got nobody to match A. Brown...I don't think. (Does anyone think that Coleman or Pryor can do that?).

We had an OC as good as Pouncey in Mack. But he is gone. But I think that if Elflein or Pocic are drafted that the Browns could make up some ground there.

 

The big one, of course is QB. And I think I know a guy that we can get that can at least give us a chance there for the future.

 

And someone said: coaching. Well, yes....I don't have an answer for that.

 

I'm not too worried about WR, assuming we re-sign Pryor. I was extremely disappointed with Coleman's numbers, but I have to keep in mind he was a rookie playing with less than ideal QB play. Pryor somehow managed 1000 yards with the baboons playing QB for us and facing constant defensive scrutiny. Could we use a WR upgrade? Certainly, but it's not as dire as some of the others. We do need a center, and that's something we could spend a high pick on. The guys you mentioned are studs, but I'm a little turned off by Pocic now that I've researched him a tiny bit. Specifically, I don't like his size and build. He reminds me a little bit of Cam Erving (taller center), and if I had the choice, I would rather go with Elflein. Back to WR....let's give Coleman a little bit of a break. I know he was a disappointment to many, but let's keep in mind that Antonio Brown didn't have as good of a rookie season as Coleman did. I'm NOT comparing Coleman to Brown talent wise, and I'm NOT saying Corey will be the next top NFL WR, I'm simply pointing out that some talented NFL WR's took some time to get seasoned.

 

The QB situation is what everyone will be talking about for MONTHS to come. My bet is that we draft someone high and also bring in a veteran. Somebody like Mike Glennon, Tyrod Taylor, or possibly a trade for Garoppolo, although I doubt it severely.

[The Gipper]

This thread made me chuckle!

 

You never learn.....and that's what makes you funny

The proof is in the pudding.....without BR/Bell/Brown the Browns whipped the Steelers ass up and down pretty much.

 

Do you disagree that the Browns beat themselves with all their fuckups?

[The Gipper]

 

I'm not too worried about WR, assuming we re-sign Pryor. I was extremely disappointed with Coleman's numbers, but I have to keep in mind he was a rookie playing with less than ideal QB play. Pryor somehow managed 1000 yards with the baboons playing QB for us and facing constant defensive scrutiny. Could we use a WR upgrade? Certainly, but it's not as dire as some of the others.

I agree...we have some potential at WR. But that potential HAS to come forth. I still don't think that other teams "fear" the Browns WR corps. Maybe Coleman/Pryor can develop...there is some raw material. But we need a finished product out there.

 

 

We do need a center, and that's something we could spend a high pick on. The guys you mentioned are studs, but I'm a little turned off by Pocic now that I've researched him a tiny bit. Specifically, I don't like his size and build. He reminds me a little bit of Cam Erving (taller center), and if I had the choice, I would rather go with Elflein.

OK, isn't there another guy....the Michigan center who may be worth a look as well? And, I see what you mean. Pocic is 6'6" very tall for a center. That is more tackle height.

 

Back to WR....let's give Coleman a little bit of a break. I know he was a disappointment to many, but let's keep in mind that Antonio Brown didn't have as good of a rookie season as Coleman did. I'm NOT comparing Coleman to Brown talent wise, and I'm NOT saying Corey will be the next top NFL WR, I'm simply pointing out that some talented NFL WR's took some time to get seasoned.

 

The QB situation is what everyone will be talking about for MONTHS to come. My bet is that we draft someone high and also bring in a veteran. Somebody like Mike Glennon, Tyrod Taylor, or possibly a trade for Garoppolo, although I doubt it severely.

Or keep RG and Kessler and draft that guy. Right now, that is the plan I personally favor. Its a continuity issue.

[Douche Nozzle]

The proof is in the pudding.....without BR/Bell/Brown the Browns whipped the Steelers ass up and down pretty much.

 

Do you disagree that the Browns beat themselves with all their fuckups?

The proof is what makes me chuckle! You are a master at making bold statements which can never be proven. Despite the fact that I believe the Browns are finally doing some things the proper way, they will finish in the bottom ten next year and when they do, you will say they didn't get the right 3 or 4 players.

 

Sure I agree, that's what bad teams do! And that's why it's hard to play those teams.

 

The Steelers had nothing to play for, played a disgustingly lack-luster game, and still won. But more importantly, the body of work for the Browns season (not just the snapshot you wish to use) says they are all but 3-4 players away.

[The Gipper]

The proof is what makes me chuckle! You are a master at making bold statements which can never be proven.

 

Its not that it isn't proven, its that you are either too obtuse or you lie to yourself about whatever you see in front of your eyes.

 

Despite the fact that I believe the Browns are finally doing some things the proper way, they will finish in the bottom ten next year and when they do, you will say they didn't get the right 3 or 4 players.

 

They may get some of the right players and still finish in the bottom ten.

But, again, you are too obtuse to get my point: Without those 3-4 players, the Steelers would be in the bottom 10 with them.

 

Sure I agree, that's what bad teams do! And that's why it's hard to play those teams.

 

The Steelers had nothing to play for, played a disgustingly lack-luster game, and still won. But more importantly, the body of work for the Browns season (not just the snapshot you wish to use) says they are all but 3-4 players away.

 

Put BR, Brown, and Bell and Pouncey on the Browns and take them away from the Steelers....and what do you think we would have.

We would have the Browns pushing for a playoff spot, and the Steelers would be vying for the Top draft pick.

See, it is as simple as that...but you are too stupid to get it.

Hell, the Browns had more incentive to lose than the Steelers did.

And you think the Steelers played a disgustingly lackluster game? That is what they would look like every game without those guys.

And did you even watch the game? Could anything be more disgusting than the way the Browns played? The way the gave the game away?

Hell, the Browns did their best to give it to you. Finally you were barely able to do so.

[Tour2ma]

 

 

Also mostly in agreement here. My exceptions would be to:

• Point C... While you might make a case that Crow's talent approaches DeAngelo's, Bell is beyond comparison with anyone on our current roster.
• I think I said that the combination of Crowe and Duke give us a package of diversity that Bell brings on his own. If they were utilized properly...those two could come close to equally the productivity that Bell puts out.
• And Point F... "culture change" is at this juncture largely a product, not an input. The FO and staff have both done their jobs setting standards. Now it's the improvement that has to kick in.
• Well, the "Culture" may be more than a product and an input combined. It is the most intangible factor....and the hardest to grasp how to change.

 

 

 

Two RBs blended can't match one player with a wider skill set. You swap and the D says, "Here comes the guy that does Y vs. the starter that does X." And that's ignoring the fact that neither individually can match Bell in speed or elusiveness.

 

Culture change isn't that hard to figure out. It is hard to implement, but only because it takes consistent application of established standards over time... AKA continuity.

[The Gipper]

 

Two RBs blended can't match one player with a wider skill set. You swap and the D says, "Here comes the guy that does Y vs. the starter that does X." And that's ignoring the fact that neither individually can match Bell in speed or elusiveness.

Not sure I agree there. And the answer to the "here comes guy Y is: put them both in the backfield at the same time. What is wrong with that? It worked with Mack/Byner, Csonka/Kiick/Morris Pruitt and Pruitt. It can be done....its just that coaches don't want to play that game anymore....having two good RBs in at the same time. They want 5 WR sets etc. Maybe the Browns should play some old school ball. It wouldn't hurt.

 

Culture change isn't that hard to figure out. It is hard to implement, but only because it takes consistent application of established standards over time... AKA continuity.

Well, if it was so fucking easy, why didn't the Browns just do that. Maybe we should have just kept Chris Palmer on as HC....hell, if we had just done that we would have had the next Bill Belichick on our hands. Continuity for continuity sakes is no virtue.

[calfoxwc]

It's tough to change the culture of a team, while having a myriad of types of the wrong players on your team.

 

character - bad and good

work ethic - lazy and hard working

football iq - really dumb moves and brilliant instincts

toughness/excellent talent - not into it/leaves for anything for more money and Joe Thomas - stays because he has it all and wants to stay

 

It is the lack of a solid, complex criteria for bring in players that leads to a hopeless culture.

[alporcini]

 

 

Two RBs blended can't match one player with a wider skill set. You swap and the D says, "Here comes the guy that does Y vs. the starter that does X." And that's ignoring the fact that neither individually can match Bell in speed or elusiveness.

Not sure I agree there. And the answer to the "here comes guy Y is: put them both in the backfield at the same time. What is wrong with that? It worked with Mack/Byner, Csonka/Kiick/Morris Pruitt and Pruitt. It can be done....its just that coaches don't want to play that game anymore....having two good RBs in at the same time. They want 5 WR sets etc. Maybe the Browns should play some old school ball. It wouldn't hurt.

 

Culture change isn't that hard to figure out. It is hard to implement, but only because it takes consistent application of established standards over time... AKA continuity.

Well, if it was so fucking easy, why didn't the Browns just do that. Maybe we should have just kept Chris Palmer on as HC....hell, if we had just done that we would have had the next Bill Belichick on our hands. Continuity for continuity sakes is no virtue.

 

 

 

Good point here Gip. I wonder about this all the time. Jim Brown/Ernie Green are another good argument for what I remember as good ol' successful Cleveland Browns football!

[Douche Nozzle]

 

The proof is what makes me chuckle! You are a master at making bold statements which can never be proven.

 

Its not that it isn't proven, its that you are either too obtuse or you lie to yourself about whatever you see in front of your eyes.

 

Despite the fact that I believe the Browns are finally doing some things the proper way, they will finish in the bottom ten next year and when they do, you will say they didn't get the right 3 or 4 players.

 

They may get some of the right players and still finish in the bottom ten.

But, again, you are too obtuse to get my point: Without those 3-4 players, the Steelers would be in the bottom 10 with them.

 

Sure I agree, that's what bad teams do! And that's why it's hard to play those teams.

 

The Steelers had nothing to play for, played a disgustingly lack-luster game, and still won. But more importantly, the body of work for the Browns season (not just the snapshot you wish to use) says they are all but 3-4 players away.

 

Put BR, Brown, and Bell and Pouncey on the Browns and take them away from the Steelers....and what do you think we would have.

We would have the Browns pushing for a playoff spot, and the Steelers would be vying for the Top draft pick.

See, it is as simple as that...but you are too stupid to get it.

Hell, the Browns had more incentive to lose than the Steelers did.

And you think the Steelers played a disgustingly lackluster game? That is what they would look like every game without those guys.

And did you even watch the game? Could anything be more disgusting than the way the Browns played? The way the gave the game away?

Hell, the Browns did their best to give it to you. Finally you were barely able to do so.

 

I have often believed that you simply can't be that stupid, but you continue to demonstrate that you are.

 

Take any 3 or 4 players you like and put them on the Browns and they will wallow in mediocrity due to the complete void of talent around them. You simply can't grasp what everyone else knows.....when you change leadership and philosophy every 1.5 years little else matters.....you simply can't be competitive!

 

The Browns had no incentive to lose for many reasons:

1. They are all professionals who play to win.

2. There is no talent in the upcoming draft which sets a single player above the others so draft picks 1 thru 3 mean little more than the amount you pay for them.

3. The Browns would give their left nut to beat the Steelers and you know it.

[The Gipper]

I have often believed that you simply can't be that stupid, but you continue to demonstrate that you are.

 

Well, I know for a fact that you CAN be that stupid....and you demonstrate it time after time after time.

 

Take any 3 or 4 players you like

NOT any players: Ben R. A. Brown, Bell. and Pouncey those are the players.

 

 

and put them on the Browns and they will wallow in mediocrity due to the complete void of talent around them.

And the entire Steeler team at this point would also wallow in mediocrity because of the void of talent around them if you take those guys off of there. They wallowed in mediocrity on Sunday.

They should have been beaten soundly by a 1-15 team.

 

You simply can't grasp what everyone else knows.....when you change leadership and philosophy every 1.5 years little else matters.....you simply can't be competitive!

Of course I grasp that the changes of leadership etc. hurt the Browns.....did you not fucking read the original post. I said that the difference between the teams was those 3-4 players....and culture. Again, you pile your obtuseness on top of your stupidity to make a dumbass cake. Put those 3 guys on the Browns....and maybe that culture changes.

 

The Browns had no incentive to lose for many reasons:

1. They are all professionals who play to win.

Yet....you say that the Steelers did not play to win. So, I guess they are not professionals either?

2. There is no talent in the upcoming draft which sets a single player above the others so draft picks 1 thru 3 mean little more than the amount you pay for them.

We can start with one player. One player, one franchise QB can make all the difference. It apparently makes all the difference to the Steelers, Packers, Patriots etc. Or have you not been watching football at all these last two decades?

3. The Browns would give their left nut to beat the Steelers and you know it.

Apparently not. They had the beat every way to Sunday this past week. Yet the Browns continually gave the game away.

Fumbles, stupid play calls, fuckup after fuckup. They gave their left nut to lose.

All they had to do was like run the ball in from the two. They didn't even try to do that.

[Douche Nozzle]

What you casually term "culture" is 75% of the equation, the 3 or 4 players is 25%. The Browns are 3 or 4 players (and "culture" improvement) away from teams like the Jaguars, Bears, and Rams.

[Guest]

What you casually term "culture" is 75% of the equation, the 3 or 4 players is 25%. The Browns are 3 or 4 players (and "culture" improvement) away from teams like the Jaguars, Bears, and Rams.

 

What the fuck do you know? Every Steeler fan thinks he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night because his team's good. No matter how many games your team wins, you don't get any smarter, numbnuts.

 

The culture has already changed, no 1-15 team fights until the last snap of every game, this one did.

 

The talent is coming ... in droves. No team in NFL history has ever had this much draft cache combined with this much free agency wallet room. And we have a GM that trades the shit we were about to cut from that 1-15 team within the division for a 6th round pick

 

The Browns are on the Jimmy Johnson plan: 1-15, 7-9, Playoffs, Super Bowl. If we get to the playoffs next year with the right moves then, great, we are a year early and we are going to start pounding you pukes with your old QBs and fickle fan bases. Guess who has the oldest and most fickle?

 

Zombo

[The Gipper]

What you casually term "culture" is 75% of the equation, the 3 or 4 players is 25%. The Browns are 3 or 4 players (and "culture" improvement) away from teams like the Jaguars, Bears, and Rams.

And without those 3 players, the Steelers would be about on par with the Jags, Rams, Bears...and Browns.....proven on Sunday.

Browns had to give tthe game away badly to lose.

[The Gipper]

 

What the fuck do you know? Every Steeler fan thinks he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night because his team's good. No matter how many games your team wins, you don't get any smarter, numbnuts.

 

The culture has already changed, no 1-15 team fights until the last snap of every game, this one did.

 

The talent is coming ... in droves. No team in NFL history has eve had this much draft cache combined with this much free agency wallet room. And we have a GM that trades the shit we were about to cut from that 1-15 team within the division for a 6th round pick

 

The Browns are on the Jimmy Johnson plan: 1-15, 7-9, Playoffs, Super Bowl. If we get to the playoffs next year with the right moves then, great, we are a year early and we are going to start pounding you pukes with your old QBs and fickle fan bases. Guess who has the oldest and most fickle?

 

Zombo

What do you think about my proposition that without BR/Brown/Bell/Pouncey that the Steelers are essentially equal to the Browns?