Clevfan4life Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 So Trump comes out and says the ban isn't a "muslim ban", which ofc we know is BS. So Giuliani goes on FOX tonight and says this....http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-asked-for-a-%e2%80%98muslim-ban%e2%80%99-giuliani-says-%e2%80%94-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-%e2%80%98legally%e2%80%99/ar-AAmnJyK?li=BBnb7Kz I'm not a legal expert but I think there's stuff in the constitution that forbids religious discrimination. Now I want to be clear that I'm all in favor of severely restricting immigration from the middle east as a whole, but I'm not happy with Trump not grandfathering in people that already got their visa's/greencards whatever. I mean people were literally in the air when he signed that order. We're talking about Dr's and people who work in Silicon valley just as examples.....lot's of tech companies are apparently royally pissed at Trump for this. It really was as simple as saying anyone that got their entry as of today is cool, but no more new ones starting right now. Why he didn't do that is beyond me and he just gave massive ammo to the left. Anyway, what Giuliani is saying right here could theoretically get Trump in a vast, vast amount of trouble. How cool are you guys with Pency boy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Well I do agree that you are no legal expert, as a matter of fact I'd be surprised if you can tie your shoes , but that's not the point. The reason it isn't necessarily a Muslim ban is because there's 30 or 40 other mostly Muslim nations that arent affected. As a matter of fact the countries that are effected are the same ones your butt buddy Obama restricted without a peep from you or your little bitch Xxxxx. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Well I do agree that you are no legal expert, as a matter of fact I'd be surprised if you can tie your shoes , but that's not the point. The reason it isn't necessarily a Muslim ban is because there's 30 or 40 other mostly Muslim nations that arent affected. As a matter of fact the countries that are effected are the same ones your butt buddy Obama restricted without a peep from you or your little bitch Xxxxx. WSS So your'e failing to comprehend i said i agree with the ban, aren't you? and you're questioning my ability to tie my own shoes? you can't read the english language soo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Well I do agree that you are no legal expert, as a matter of fact I'd be surprised if you can tie your shoes , but that's not the point. The reason it isn't necessarily a Muslim ban is because there's 30 or 40 other mostly Muslim nations that arent affected. As a matter of fact the countries that are effected are the same ones your butt buddy Obama restricted without a peep from you or your little bitch Xxxxx. WSS Steve the big problem now with the perception is he put into the ban exceptions for non-Muslims. It would violate the constitution to say "Muslims", and honestly it already violates the Constitution to show preferential treatment to those minority religions. So it seems like the thing is targeting Muslims from these countries while exempting non-Muslims, but doing it in a way that gives them arguably plausible deniability. I think a lot of this ban is political theater by Trump to make his base happy, while maintaining alliances we have in the Middle East. This isn't going to stop terrorists because they'll just recruit elsewhere, and statistically speaking, most of the terrorism in the US lately has come from domestic sources. So, IMO this is whole thing is poorly conceived and will prove to be ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Osiris your a general statement, non Muslims doesn't work it was specifically Christians, I would guess, are much more persecuted and murdered on a regular basis by Cleve's friends in Isis. So if we are taking bets how much do you suppose queenie wants to bet that Trump is not impeached over this? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Well I do agree that you are no legal expert, as a matter of fact I'd be surprised if you can tie your shoes , but that's not the point. The reason it isn't necessarily a Muslim ban is because there's 30 or 40 other mostly Muslim nations that arent affected. As a matter of fact the countries that are effected are the same ones your butt buddy Obama restricted without a peep from you or your little bitch Xxxxx. WSS steve, lets be frank here...you're not a very intelligent person. I don't think you realize that straw manning is the hallmark of the intellectually lazy at best, and just plain outright stupid at worst. I think you're somewhere in between there. You assign sides of an argument to people who never took that side. Because you need people to fit your pre rendered narratives, your litte box...so your mind can easily dismiss them instead of having to actually run through a few krebs cycles. Ofc you didn't hear a peep out of me when Obama issued travel bans because i likely agreed with them, as I do with Trumps. It's Trumps execution of it that i'm pretty sure i've laid out my reasons for having a problem with. Just learn to actually digest what people are saying steve instead of assigning your own narratives to them. It makes you come off like a complete moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Osiris your a general statement, non Muslims doesn't work it was specifically Christians, I would guess, are much more persecuted and murdered on a regular basis by Cleve's friends in Isis. So if we are taking bets how much do you suppose queenie wants to bet that Trump is not impeached over this? WSS steve have you been drinking tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 steve have you been drinking tonight? Thanks for the non-response but do we have a bet? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Thanks for the non-response but do we have a bet? WSS bet about what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 "Anyway, what Giuliani is saying right here could theoretically get Trump in a vast, vast amount of trouble. How cool are you guys with Pency boy?" WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 "Anyway, what Giuliani is saying right here could theoretically get Trump in a vast, vast amount of trouble. How cool are you guys with Pency boy?" WSS oh bet whether he gets impeached? well i did say "theoretically" and I did say I wasn't well versed in constitutional law. Trump has also already backed off some of the order in case you haven't read, cause he's getting murmurs from republicans who understand the implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 A. non-citizens don't have rights under our Constitution. It isn't a global document, although liberals would like a global document to supercede it.... B. The world faces "islamic extremist" terror. All over the world. Christains are being persecuted. Muslims are being persecuted. But, how do you tell the difference between islamic extremist terrorist, and a Muslim who is never going to be a terrorist? C. Here is what is happening - activist/militarist hispanics want a flood of hispanics here, to give them political/activist/militarist power. Activist/militarist Mulims want a flood of Muslims here, to give them political/activist/militarist power. Obamao was all for that. D. There is no problem with Christian terrorists, there isn't any such thing. I asked Os about how the Koran can be used/abused by terrorists...., around the world... respectfully...and it's a bit disconcerting that there was never a true answer. E. Germany is in serious trouble with their multi-cultural open door nonsense. If we don't protect our borders, we will be in the same boat. There are terrific Americans, who happen to be MUSLIM, that agree with Trump's ban. F. IOW's, why the hell let terrorists, who so many immigrants desperately must flee from, in with those immigrants that are fleeing ? What the hell? That makes no sense, unless you guess that certain people want the trouble to come here. Like george soros, who brags about undermining entire countries' economies. G. In the background, I keep seeing Cloward-Piven. Crash capitalism, freedom, by flooding entitlements and spending where America crashes. Obamao's friends, bill ayers and bernadine dorn, et all, wanted to crash us with violence. Obamao did exactly what a person would do to that end, as president. Doesn't seem to be a coincidence, that obaMao's political career started in Bill Ayer's father's house. H. Those who won't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I gave Os a lesson about the truth about the ottoman empire, and he went nasty/then silent. Liberals hate the truth, they live on glorious false narratives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Osiris your a general statement, non Muslims doesn't work it was specifically Christians, I would guess, are much more persecuted and murdered on a regular basis by Cleve's friends in Isis. So if we are taking bets how much do you suppose queenie wants to bet that Trump is not impeached over this? WSS How do you expect to be taken seriously if you're saying other posters are friends with ISIS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Osiris your a general statement, non Muslims doesn't work it was specifically Christians, I would guess, are much more persecuted and murdered on a regular basis by Cleve's friends in Isis. So if we are taking bets how much do you suppose queenie wants to bet that Trump is not impeached over this? WSS Not sure what you are saying due to some typos but here is the text of Trumps order that essentially violates the Constitution's prohibition towards showing favoritism based on religion. "...the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individuals country of nationality. " Since Republicans control the house and senate I don't know if this alone will lead to impeachment. I did read an article that points out that Trump reached sub-50% approval ratings faster than any president in history: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/29/14432250/trump-disapproval-50-percent Does it mean he is heading for impeachment? Maybe all those Republicans that opposed him would prefer to see Pence as president and are setting him up for impeachment. Maybe not. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Not sure what you are saying due to some typos but here is the text of Trumps order that essentially violates the Constitution's prohibition towards showing favoritism based on religion. "...the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of nationality. " Since Republicans control the house and senate I don't know if this alone will lead to impeachment. I did read an article that points out that Trump reached sub-50% approval ratings faster than any president in history. Does it mean he is heading for impeachment? Who knows. what a stupid opinion, based on political bigotry. https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/01/trump-immigration-executive-order-fact-fiction [1] Nishimura Ekiu v. United States, 142 US 651 (1892). [“It is an accepted maxim of international law that every sovereign nation has the power, as inherent in sovereignty, and essential to self-preservation, to forbid the entrance of foreigners within its dominions, or to admit them only in such cases and upon such conditions as it may see fit to prescribe.”] [2] Fong Yue Ting v. United States, 149 US 707 (1893). [“the right of a nation to expel or deport foreigners who have not been naturalized, or taken any steps towards becoming citizens of the country, rests upon the same grounds, and is as absolute and unqualified as the right to prohibit and prevent their entrance into the country.”] [3] As Justice Felix Frankfurter observed, the notion that immigration policy is “entrusted exclusively to Congress has become about as firmly embedded in the legislative and judicial tissues of our body politic as any aspect of our government…" “[T]here is not merely 'a page of history'… but a whole volume,” wrote Frankfurter, that any alien not legally domiciled in this country is as if he is standing outside our soil as it relates to due process rights or judicial review to overturn a deportation. Galvan v. Press 347 US 531–32 (1954). What better authority on this subject than Justice Robert Jackson, the famous Nuremberg prosecutor who was a champion of due process rights (he wrote the dissent in Korematsu v. United States, the Japanese internment case) and regarded as one of the greatest writers of his time? Here is what he had to say: “Due process does not invest any alien with a right to enter the United States, nor confer on those admitted the right to remain against the national will.” Shaughnessy v. Mezei, 345 US 222-223 (1953) (Jackson, J., dissenting). [4] United States v. Ju Toy, 198 US 253 (1905); Shaughnessy v. Mezei, 345 US 215 (1953). - See more at: https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/01/trump-immigration-executive-order-fact-fiction#sthash.hpZx6Sul.dpuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Is this a ban on Muslim immigration?No, it’s a moratorium on immigration or re-entries from seven individual countries and a temporary moratorium on refugees from all countries, subject to case-by-case exceptions. Why didn’t Trump place restrictions on immigration/visas from Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries? That’s probably a good idea. But this was actually a judicious and cautious approach from Trump to start with low-hanging fruit. These seven countries are failed states or enemies of the U.S. (in the case of Iran). As such, there is absolutely no way to share data with the host countries and properly vet them. Somalia has been one of the biggest trouble spots. The other countries are marred in Islamic civil wars. Moreover, these are the countries that existing law targets for travel restrictions, and that Obama’s own DHS listed last year. - See more at: https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/01/trump-immigration-executive-order-fact-fiction#sthash.hpZx6Sul.dpuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 How do you expect to be taken seriously if you're saying other posters are friends with ISIS? What expectations should I have? If your girlfriend was less of an asshole there could be conversation. I'm talking about Cleve by the way in case you didn't really read anything which usually happens. He cries people don't read and try harder to understand his shit and take it seriously but there's so little in there that isn't just trollling and flambe bait. And he has often stated his respect for people like Che Guevara and Castro. Reasonably brutal terrorists and dictator. So it stands to reason he would also respect Isis. Freedom Fighters you know? And when the final point of his post was that we should prepare ourselves four a Mike Pence takeover I should treat that as a thoughtful statement? No. Sorry. Can't do it. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Not sure what you are saying due to some typos but here is the text of Trumps order that essentially violates the Constitution's prohibition towards showing favoritism based on religion. "...the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individuals country of nationality. " Since Republicans control the house and senate I don't know if this alone will lead to impeachment. I did read an article that points out that Trump reached sub-50% approval ratings faster than any president in history: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/29/14432250/trump-disapproval-50-percent Does it mean he is heading for impeachment? Maybe all those Republicans that opposed him would prefer to see Pence as president and are setting him up for impeachment. Maybe not. Who knows. Osiris I realize I am prone to speech-to-text glitches but I don't think that should have obscured that particular quote. I called Cleve Queenie.But preferring one group of refugees over another? I don't see a huge problem because as I stated I think Christians over there are in much more Danger because of their religion. Also if Republicans who got their ass handed to them during the primaries and elections want to snake him out? I guess they can. I'm not betting on it and I'm open to accepting wagers from those who do. Personally I think that would be a stupid plan of action since all of a sudden they've had a 3-prong majority for the first time in ages. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 What expectations should I have? If your girlfriend was less of an asshole there could be conversation. I'm talking about Cleve by the way in case you didn't really read anything which usually happens. He cries people don't read and try harder to understand his shit and take it seriously but there's so little in there that isn't just trollling and flambe bait. And he has often stated his respect for people like Che Guevara and Castro. Reasonably brutal terrorists and dictator. So it stands to reason he would also respect Isis. Freedom Fighters you know? And when the final point of his post was that we should prepare ourselves four a Mike Pence takeover I should treat that as a thoughtful statement? No. Sorry. Can't do it. WSS Or maybe you're just doing the things you accuse me of. In this post you called Cleve my gf and then said I usually don't read anything. Maybe you're just being a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Or maybe you're just doing the things you accuse me of. In this post you called Cleve my gf and then said I usually don't read anything. Maybe you're just being a dick.I'm not above that either Woody.But I did quote the shit from his post. Because your defense seemed to come after I challenged him to a bet. If there's something I'm not seeing here feel free to enlighten me. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's hard to say whether Trump will be a total disaster or whether he'll be able to adapt but it's clear he had no idea what the job was going to entail. Of course it doesn't help that if he farts the media drums up a protest against his use of biological weapons on Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 While others sniff as much of that fart up as possible and use Internet memes to say how much better it smelled than Obama's farts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 To be fair there's more people making memes to say Obama's farts were actually more fragrant and also cured cancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 But preferring one group of refugees over another? I don't see a huge problem because as I stated I think Christians over there are in much more Danger because of their religion. You are free to take that position, though I would disagree with you. Aside from that position being unconstitutional, Daesh is a bigger danger to Muslims simply by the fact that their are more Muslims than Christians and they are indiscriminate killers. They kill any that refuse to swear allegiance to them. This is the point I keep making, over and over and over and over that doesn't seem to sink in. We'd defeat Daesh a whole lot faster if we'd realize that demonizing potential allies against them. They kill people for calling them Daesh. "But even as ISIS claims it fights for Sunni Islam, fellow Sunni Muslims have also been killed and displaced in greater numbers than Christians. That's, in part, because ISIS operates most in Sunni areas. Hundreds of thousands of Sunnis have been displaced from ISIS areas, as Sunnis, who try to oppose the group or have ties to the Iraqi government, are targeted. And, Muslims have fought ISIS more than anyone else. This includes Kurdish Sunnis and Arab Sunnis and Shiites, who are on the front lines and often allied with U.S. advisers in the battle against ISIS, as well as Turkmen Muslims. Some of the most horrific videos from ISIS have shown the killing of Sunni Muslims who have fought the group, like a Jordanian pilot and Turkish troops shown burned alive." Source: http://www.npr.org/2017/01/29/512305163/fact-check-trump-tweets-on-christians-isis-and-vetting-miss-the-bigger-picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's hard to say whether Trump will be a total disaster or whether he'll be able to adapt but it's clear he had no idea what the job was going to entail. Of course it doesn't help that if he farts the media drums up a protest against his use of biological weapons on Americans. That's a fair point, but Trump isn't helping his cause with the media by calling them fake news and being so adversarial with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 That's a fair point, but Trump isn't helping his cause with the media by calling them fake news and being so adversarial with them. No he's certainly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 You are free to take that position, though I would disagree with you. Aside from that position being unconstitutional, Daesh is a bigger danger to Muslims simply by the fact that their are more Muslims than Christians and they are indiscriminate killers. They kill any that refuse to swear allegiance to them. This is the point I keep making, over and over and over and over that doesn't seem to sink in. We'd defeat Daesh a whole lot faster if we'd realize that demonizing potential allies against them. They kill people for calling them Daesh. "But even as ISIS claims it fights for Sunni Islam, fellow Sunni Muslims have also been killed and displaced in greater numbers than Christians. That's, in part, because ISIS operates most in Sunni areas. Hundreds of thousands of Sunnis have been displaced from ISIS areas, as Sunnis, who try to oppose the group or have ties to the Iraqi government, are targeted. And, Muslims have fought ISIS more than anyone else. This includes Kurdish Sunnis and Arab Sunnis and Shiites, who are on the front lines and often allied with U.S. advisers in the battle against ISIS, as well as Turkmen Muslims. Some of the most horrific videos from ISIS have shown the killing of Sunni Muslims who have fought the group, like a Jordanian pilot and Turkish troops shown burned alive." Source: http://www.npr.org/2017/01/29/512305163/fact-check-trump-tweets-on-christians-isis-and-vetting-miss-the-bigger-picture I do not think the average person understands the sectarian and tribal conflicts going on over there. People like Cal seem to think of Muslims as a monolith and that's fairly dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Osiris yes indeed these bastards are generally indiscriminate killers and yes probably more Muslims are being killed. But I would maintain that Christians are more often targeted solely due to their religion. Whether or not Trump is making things worse by calling the media fake news, didn't really cause them to report things fairly during the election so what's the difference? And again I think he should STFU until he thinks of a better tweet. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Tweets Tweets & replies Media Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 7m7 minutes ago More If the ban were announced with a one week notice, the "bad" would rush into our country during that week. A lot of bad "dudes" out there! 3,993 replies3,047 retweets11,893 likes Reply 4K Retweet 3K Like 12K Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago More There is nothing nice about searching for terrorists before they can enter our country. This was a big part of my campaign. Study the world! 11,669 replies9,996 retweets40,117 likes Reply 12K Retweet 10K Like 40K Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago More protesters and the tears of Senator Schumer. Secretary Kelly said that all is going well with very few problems. MAKE AMERICA SAFE AGAIN! 7,752 replies7,667 retweets34,376 likes Reply 7.8K Retweet 7.7K Like 34K Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago More Only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning. Big problems at airports were caused by Delta computer outage,..... 8,164 replies9,194 retweets31,933 likes Reply 8.2K Retweet 9.2K Like 32K Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 14h14 hours ago More I will be interviewed by @TheBrodyFile on @CBNNews tonight at 11pm. Enjoy! 19,114 replies9,286 retweets48,720 likes Reply 19K Retweet 9.3K Like 49K Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 14h14 hours ago More Statement Regarding Recent Executive Order Concerning Extreme Vetting: https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10158567643610725 … 12,339 replies14,548 retweets51,219 likes Reply 12K Retweet 15K Like 51K Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 16h16 hours ago More ...Senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World War III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 And should Sunni Muslims get preferential treatment over Shiites? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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