Actual Browns Thread

[Tour2ma]

Rostered Defense:

DEs: Meder, Ogbah, Nassib, X. Cooper, Holmes... and the new guy...

DTs: Shelton, Gabe Wright, Nile Lawrence-Stample, Des Bryant... First Question: are Browns converting to base 4-3?

Yes... converting... it was in all the papers.

Take the DL as a whole, as we've at least two swingmen, starting with the locks: (MG) - Danny - Bryant - Ogbah

 

DE needs help needed biggly for the 4-3 not to mention an NFL level pass rush... and it's right there at the top of the draft.

• Meder and Cooper both seem destined for DT duty in 2017... Cooper at the 3 and Meder as a swingman between the 3 and 1.
• That leaves Ogbah and Nassib. The former seems better suited for the 5 - 7 role opposite MG, but Carl may have "developed" over the off-season... we shall see.
• Of course there's always Tyrone Holmes to fall back on...

So (MG), Og, Nass... that's 3. Add Cooper as the primary DE/DT swingman. Do we have a LB/DE swingman? Maybe...

 

At DT

• Danny's a lock at the 0-1.
• I like Nile to emerge as his immediate back up... felt he was a steal in last year's draft... hope we get to see what he has this year.
• I look for Des to bounce back from injury and lock up the 3 with Cooper his immediate backup.

That's four DTs. Add Meder as the 5th backing both DT slots leaving Gabe and Colely primed to be caught in a numbers game.

 

DL total: 8... at least two more newbies will get stashed on the PS.

OLBs: Jamie Collins, Joe Schobert, Nate Ochard and Cam Johnson

MLBs: Demario Davis, Christian Kirksey, Tank Carder

Take the LBs as a whole... a numbers game is brewing due to our conversion... one that even Tank's ST prowess might not be able save him from. We currently have 9 rostered LBs, an OK number for the 3-4, but now we will likely carry 7 actives.

• ATM we appear to have two "locks": Collins at ROLB and Kirksey at MLB, but whether they are locked at their best position will be a source of debate at least through preseason Game 3.
• Inserting Davis in the middle thus pushing Kirk to LOLB is a possibility, but our short-middle zone coverage would suffer. Regardless of that debate's outcome, the truth is that the reason to insert Davis is that we are weakest at LOLB.

Very attractive, direct and indirect, solutions are available in the draft at the 12 spot with somewhat lesser improvements on Day 2.

 

Let's look at the other roster "contenders:

• Orchard appears poised to start by default, but his coverage capabilities are wanting. Potential flex to DE helps his cause.
• Cam Johnson is a prime flex candidate, but I don't see that helping him enough or his 3-4 build translating. Can he muster enough veteran guile? Can he slim down enough for OLB or bulk up enough for DE? He flashed at times in 2016, but his odds look long.
• No one disappointed me more in 2017 than Schobert. While physically marginal for the NFL level, I thought he had the instincts and IQ to compensate and perform adequately. He fell very short on both counts in his early season opportunity opting to display what can only be described as indecisiveness. He looks very vulnerable...
• Dom Alexander may be the darkhorse solution in this mix. He looks more 4-3-ish, but height and discipline are issues.
• James Burgess may be a bigger darkhorse... if for no other reason than I don't know him. But he looks to be PS qualified.

Maybe things don't look so bad for Tank after all... and he did show more in his LB opportunites in 2016 than he had in prior seasons, but there are 3 or 4 LBs in the draft, any one of which could, and should, determine his fate.

CBs: Joe Haden 5'11, Jamar Taylor 5'11, Briean Boddy-Calhoun 5'9, Marcus Burley 5'10, Trey Caldwell 5'9, Tracy Howard 5'10, Darius Hillary 5'10
Safeties: Ed Reynolds (FS, 6'1), Ibrahim Campbell (SS, 5'11), Tyvus Powell (FS, 6'2), Derrick Kindred (SS, 5'10), Justin Currie (SS, 6'2)

Again let's look at the 2ndary as a whole... we can take it.... on second thought...

• If we were to sum up our CB deficiency in one word, it'd have to be... Height.
• If we were to sum up our Safety deficiency in one word, it'd have to be... rangeanddballskills.

We are fast at the corners... we are willing hitters at the Safeties... we just don't have a lot more to offer at either. Our starting CBs are our two tallest... yet they fail to crack 6'0". Our FSs' range looks like that of an adequate SSs, a postion most seem better suited to play. When you are this limited the best way to help a 2ndary is... say it with me... to get pressure on the opposing QB.

• Taylor was a nice surprise finally showing signs of playing to the potential he demonstrated in college. Locking him up for a couple years was a good move. But he's not a 1... and, it appears, neither is Joe anymore.
• Boddy-C also played well to very well at times.
• Burley? Failed to repeat even his modest Seattle contributions of the past, but then he wasn't playing as part of the QB-pressure-cooker that has been the Seattle Defense.
• Caldwell was completely miscast at Safety due to injuries at that position... wiling... but too small.
• Howard and Hillary? No idea, but at least they're an inch above our minimum requirement... "You must be this tall, i.e., 5'9, to play corner for the Browns."

As for the Safeties...

• I loved Reynolds coming out of Stanford... but as an NFL SS, not FS... a position for which he clearly lacks Centerfield speed. While he still anticipates well, NFL QBs just don't give clues as early as NCAA ones.
• Campbell grew on me... once I was covered with (by) Mud. I thought he had, and still think he has, a reasonable shot at being a good, solid SS for a long time, but injuries and lack of production when the ball's in the air are concerns.
• Kindred, if will were enough, the kid might be an All-Pro...
• Powell... well he's our new wildcard, isn't he? Looks to have come to us fresh from getting caught by the numbers in arguably the leagues most talented 2ndary. Now let's see what he brings, but with Combine 4.46 speed, expect him to bring it in a hurry and IIRC his Buckeye play correctly with some force...
• Currie? An interesting Western Mich UDFA via the NYGs. Speed again looks more SS-ish, but the kid looks interesting.

My Rx? Take MG, a FS, and a couple CBs, and call me in the morning...

[The Gipper]

My Rx? Take MG, a FS, and a couple CBs, and call me in the morning..

 

As noted, DL and DB ignored in free agency.....and now no apparent qualityyounger veteran talent out there to acquire, so your plan seems to be a route to go.

The wonder is: will they trade up to try to get even better talent at these spots?

Even if they get Garrett, even if they take these DBs I still see needs at:

OLB (for which I see no solution on this roster except for both Schobert and Orchard vastly improving)

DT. maybe Meder and Bryant will be the solution. They may have to play there regardless if they are the solution. Cooper inside is something I have not contemplated as I have never seen that suggested, though I guess if Meder can swing, perhap X man can too.

[PoeticG]

All this conjecture about players the Browns don't even have yet.....and will not have at all except for a select few. Why don't we talk about ACTUAL Cleveland Browns players...and what these guys may do to contribute to the Browns actually winning some games. Let's make an assumption that the Browns are NOT going to start 22 rookies on this team. Further, lets make an assumption that the Browns will actually not have any rookies on the roster...or that rookies will make much of a contribution to winning (they really didn't last year) Lets look at the roster as is.

 

Start with the offense:

 

A. Quarterbacks. We have Brock Osweiler, Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan

First question: who starts.....and what does each bring to help winning games?

2d question: do we need to replace/enhance this position?

 

B. Runninig Backs: Crowell, Duke, George Atkinson

A "winning" combination or do we need to enhance this position?

 

C. TEs Barnidge, DeValve, Telfer

A winning combination or is help needed?

 

D. Coleman, Britt, Higgins, Louis et al.

Winning combination? More help needed? (Gordon?)

 

E. OC: Tretter, Marcus Martin, Reiter

Two FA pickups here.

Winning combination?

 

F. Zeitler, Bitonio, Drango, Greco

Winning combination?

 

G. Thomas, Erving, Shon Coleman

JT secure....what about duel between Erving/Coleman...or do we need another?

 

I've been working in Columbus during the week and coming home on the weekends... and while I've been home I've been neck deep in a bathroom remodel of a 100 year old house... so I haven't had much time to be on here. I miss you guys.

 

A) To be honest our QB situation is really exciting.

1- BO was a QB that I really liked and wanted coming out of college. I don't know much about his time so far in the NFL- I hear it wasn't good but hey, sometimes those things can happen and it just takes being in the right situation to make things better. The dude is mobile and has a pretty good arm- plus I think he's like 7 foot tall! lol

 

2- Hogan was my favorite QB coming out from last year. Of course he's developing and getting better but he still has a chance to become a very good player.

 

3- Kessler is a good kid and tough SOB, took some shots last season and didn't back down so I think he's still got a lot left in the tank and I don't think we've seen his best yet.

 

I really like all these Quarterbacks right now. I really like Trubisky- I think he has everything that you want in a franchise QB. I mean, he's not the tallest guy and he doesn't have the college starts that you're looking for but I think that he has the arm strength, the accuracy and wheels to get whatever you need done out there.

 

I would say that if we do end up getting him that we keep all the QBs and run them in a straight up competition to see who gets the starts. You got Oz, Hogan, Kessler, Trubisky... that is a hell of a Quarterback room if you ask me.

[D Bone]

I hope he starts all 16 - Yea, I said it.

 

 

 

[D Bone]

Kind of underwhelming to me.

 

 

 

[D Bone]

Joe wants Myles, that's for sure.... and he seems to now have a huge chip on his shoulder.

 

 

 

[TexasAg1969]

Who benefits the most from a Garrett selection @ #1?? A great argument can be made for the secondary as a whole because play in and play out there will be a shortened length of time to have to cover receivers all across the field. However there is one specific player who benefits in possibly becoming better than he already is at this point primarily because he gets to practice against a guy like Garrett day in and day out. Meet Joe Thomas. Man is he going to become even more difficult for the average pass rusher to get around. And Garrett will get better from day one having to go against him in return. Win-win for the Browns. This is gonna be fun to see how that relationship develops between the young gun and the old pro.

[Tour2ma]

Who benefits the most from a Garrett selection @ #1??

 

Possibly Joe H. due to less time for double moves which have given him issues.

 

But strong argument could also be made for Ogbah with the flushing of the QB his way... or Bryant due to QB being forced to step up.

 

That's three done and seven to go... on defense...

 

... then there are the OTs that will have to practice against him...

[jiggins7919]

I hope he starts all 16 - Yea, I said it.

 

 

 

 

It's funny, I kind of came around to this idea as well. It's safe to say that Kessler played much better than most of us THOUGHT he would, and he probably should've had two wins to show for his effort. Hue Jackson and our FB cost us in that Washington game, when the FB took his first carry and promptly fumbled the damn thing inside the red zone when were had a decent lead. I'm not saying a touchdown there seals the game, but it was possible. Not getting points cost us there, but it was really the momentum swing that we couldn't recover from, ya know? We really should've won that Miami game, and it's just bad luck.

 

The main thing that we won't know until the season starts is whether or not Cody can make "the leap". Losing Pryor certainly didn't help, and it's all but a sure thing that Gordon won't be with us (in my eyes). We need weapons, and even if we draft a couple high in the draft, expectations must be tempered when it comes to rookies. My hope is that the defense is MUCH better, and our improved OL will help us in keeping our QB upright and also running the ball much more efficiently. We can't keep getting down double figures in the first half of games, and then expect to be able to run the ball like we want to. We also need our defense to probably double the amount of turnovers. I wouldn't mind being a team like the Houston Texans that wins ugly games with defense. For that to happen, and bunch of things need to go our way, but this draft could be a start. It also goes without saying that Corey Coleman needs to be "the guy", and one of our other 2nd year WR needs to actually show like they belong in the damn league.

 

Like I said last year, my biggest issue with Kessler was how flimsy he looked in the pocket. Yeah he may have held the ball too long, but the guy had next to NO escapability, and if a defender simply touched a shoelace, Cody went down. There's aren't many guys in the NFL that went down as easily as Cody, and he certainly didn't look very athletic. I know he wasn't supposed to be Michael damn Vick, but he appeared terribly slow to me. Am I way off here? The other glaring issue was of course the concussions, and that really scares me both from a fan standpoint, and also from a medical standpoint for his future. Again, Cody isn't supposed to be a runner, but if you go back and watch some of his games, you'll see so many opportunities where he could've MOONWALKED for 20 yards. I don't want my QB running all of the time, but the occasional jaunt ending with a well-timed slide decimates a defense. Often times you can pick up a first down, and they don't even get to hit you. It's very frustrating to cover so well, but then get gashed. Heck, even a 5-6 yard QB run opens things up. The lack of mobility, or outright inability to run, hurts Cody especially in Hue's offense. Hue LOVES the occasional read-option and other mobility focused plays, and those won't be possibilities when Cody is at the helm.

 

We've all heard the whole "Cody doesn't get the ball deep" headline, but I'm not as worried about that as I am about the aforementioned other issues. I think that will come, and his arm is plenty strong to push the ball down the field. It might not be Matthew Stafford, but it also doesn't have to be. It just has to be accurate and thrown when the play presents itself.

[Tour2ma]

It's funny, I kind of came around to this idea as well. It's safe to say that Kessler played much better than most of us THOUGHT he would, and he probably should've had two wins to show for his effort. Hue Jackson and our FB cost us in that Washington game, when the FB took his first carry and promptly fumbled the damn thing inside the red zone when were had a decent lead. I'm not saying a touchdown there seals the game, but it was possible. Not getting points cost us there, but it was really the momentum swing that we couldn't recover from, ya know? We really should've won that Miami game, and it's just bad luck.

 

A 2017 Kess V2.0 that has improved his deep decision making holds more promise for sure, but 2016's bottom line is that he did not put points on the board. Only six TDs in eight starts, 0.75 TD/gm, is simply not good enough, and a lack of aggressive play was a major factor. McC had as many TDs in his five starts.

 

Sure Kess limited his INTs (two vs. McC's six) and his 65.6% connect rate looks great, but that was a combination that DCs could wait out... wait for two misses in a row to kill our drives. It's just what happens when a D feels unthreatened by chunk passes.

 

But when Kess overcame the odds and managed to lead us to the redzone, he did cash us in. Five of his TDs came in (by my count) his 12 redzone appearances and he threw no redzone picks. His completion rate did fall to 52.9%, but increased throwaways likely account for some of the drop off.

 

There's no doubt that a better surrounding cast can only help, but better, faster decision making, including increasing the area of the field that has to be defended, has to accompany that cast... and that's on Kess. It is encouraging that he appears to have accepted the challenge.

 

Redzone playlog here: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KessCo00/red-zone-passing-plays/2016

League Redzone data here: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/redzone-passing.htm

[Tour2ma]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2699236-nfl1000-cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-draft-preview

 

Draft and current staff analysis ...

Seems made for this thread, so copied it over....

 

Some interesting, potentially disturbing grades and misc. stuff in article...

 

Offense first...

• "West Coast/Power"... a name for Hue's O... I guess it works.
• Britt's score of 67.8 made him the 40th ranked WR out of 155, but Coleman's "close" score of 65.6 only ranked him 67th? Says there is a very tight pack of WR in the 2nd quartile.
• Bito's 4/78 ranking surprises me a bit to the high side...
• ... but not as much as Zeitler's 21/78 did to the low side. Our prize FA is only 2nd quartile? Just ahead of Greco at 22nd?
• Zeitler's price does make Tretter, our 11/38 FA-Center, look like a bargain.

D-side...

• Ogbah ranked 6 of 53 DEs... I knew he came on late, but did not see him that high.
• Our big trade-acquisition/resign, Collins, is ranked at the bottom of the top third of OLBs.
• Kirsey's middle-of-the-pack ranking seems low... and their "will never be a top ten MLB" prognosis feels harsh, but a certain BAMA ILB pushing him to OLB would still not piss me off.
• Pretty well nailed our 2ndary...

And then there's their Cam comment:

First-round draft picks will get every chance possible to prove they can't play. Despite Erving's having major struggles at left tackle while at Florida State, which sparked the move to center, he will make the move to right tackle and compete with Coleman.

How he ranked 33rd out of 38 Centers is beyond me.... but then at FSU he was not the worst OT prospect I looked at that year. He was the 2nd worst ranking 9th out of the 10 OTs I reviewed.

[RoyceRolls]

According to Emmett golden from espn 850, Kessler is the hardest worker on the team. At least there won't be any of the what-if/ if-only crap we had with Manziel. Cody is going to get everything he can out of his physical talents. Knowing that Cody is putting the work in and doing everything he can to be successful will make it easier to determine where he stands in comparison with whats needed from the QB position. I say let Cockwhistler back up Kess while Kizer/Dobbs holds the clipboard.

[Tour2ma]

According to Emmett golden from espn 850, Kessler is the hardest worker on the team. At least there won't be any of the what-if/ if-only crap we had with Manziel. Cody is going to get everything he can out of his physical talents. Knowing that Cody is putting the work in and doing everything he can to be successful will make it easier to determine where he stands in comparison with whats needed from the QB position. I say let Cockwhistler back up Kess while Kizer/Dobbs holds the clipboard.

 

I can live with that...

 

Who knows... we might even develop some QB capital in the process.

[Mudfly]

Well, sure hope he and Coleman develop some chemistry......Remember....Coleman implied he had a bad season based upon "who was throwing him the ball"......so, we shall see....